iPhone X FaceID and eye safety

[stafil]

I'm not sure anything else could really be ruled out over a period of a day to say that it couldn't be something else that might be in play. Furthermore a single test like that won't really say much one way or another. As far as sort of an anecdotal comparison perhaps, but nothing really beyond that as far as establishing what the "weirdness" really might be and what might really be behind it.

It it’s only a couple of people yes, you are right. But if it’s 10s with consistent reports, either way, I think it would be a good indication to start seriously looking into it.

You are supposed to feel something immediately after the test. I think it would be very unlikely coincidence to be because of something else.

But for eye pain later, yes, you are right, it may be something else that happened that day.

 

[NJHitmen]

I challenge anyone who I brave enough go in a dark room, tap on “setup FaceID” and at the point that asks you to move your face around, bring the flood illuminator 1 inch away from on of their eyes and leave it till “FaceID setup” fails. Repeat 3 times.

I bet your eye will start feeling weird and start hurting within 24hours.

I'm not sure the results would be any different than performing the same experiment with a regular flashlight. And not one of those high-powered LED torches, but rather a weak pen-sized light...something approaching the likely output of the IR illuminator. Granted, we don't know exactly what that output is, but it won't be the same order of magnitude as a big LED light (which would assuredly hurt and probably cause long term damage).

And just like with a flashlight - sure, your experiment might indeed lead to some discomfort (or "feeling weird"). I can imagine that. But logically, this doesn't prove anything, because discomfort does not necessarily indicate any permanent damage.

Here again, you'd have to perform a controlled study in order to be certain one way or the other.

 

[stafil]

I'm not sure the results would be any different than performing the same experiment with a regular flashlight. And not one of those high-powered LED torches, but rather a weak pen-sized light...something approaching the likely output of the IR illuminator. Granted, we don't know exactly what that output is, but it won't be the same order of magnitude as a big LED light (which would assuredly hurt and probably cause long term damage).

And just like with a flashlight - sure, your experiment might indeed lead to some discomfort (or "feeling weird"). I can imagine that. But logically, this doesn't prove anything, because discomfort does not necessarily indicate any permanent damage.

Here again, you'd have to perform a controlled study in order to be certain one way or the other.

I thought the majority opinion was that you shouldn’t feel absolutely anything, since IR is invisible and most of it absorbed by the cornea. At least that’s what I have been hearing in this thread, when I said IR is bad for you because it’s like having a LED flashlight flashing in your eyes 8 hours a day.

People reporting symptoms would not prove much. You are right. Certainty not that it “causes health issues”. Put it would be a start.

But if everybody reports that the didn’t feel absolutely anything it will prove that me and few others that feel something are just having placebo effects.

 

[bambooshots]

As you can see the environment is dark and the iPhone's brightness is set to minimum.

Now picture this. It's night, lights are out and you have your iPhone at bed watching Netflix. The auto-brightness has adjusted the brightness of the screen to the minimum level and your eye's pupil is dilated. Then every 5 seconds the iPhone blast an intense (but invisible) light straight into your retina.

Is that really healty?

Would you have your phone in FULL BRIGHTNESS in such an environment? Wouldn't it hurt your eyes if you did?

It’s perfectly fine.

 

[David13_13]

Edit: People are saying it's the proximity sensor. There are two kind of blinks. The first is the proximity sensor, every 2 seconds and its intensity if normal. Then second, is the flood illuminator, it's every 5 seconds or so.

Hey guys,

Wouldn't proximity sensor only be working when a call is active? Why it's always flashing each 2 seconds for no reason?

Can it be disabled?

Thank you

 

[SBruv]

Good question...

Hey guys,

Wouldn't proximity sensor only be working when a call is active? Why it's always flashing each 2 seconds for no reason?

Can it be disabled?

Thank you

 

[Tijdelijk]

Precisely

All the comments about sunshine containing more IR are totally irrelevant. Sunlight does not project intense near-infrared across your face. If it did, FaceID wouldn't work in sunlight.

 

[alFR]

Precisely

All the comments about sunshine containing more IR are totally irrelevant. Sunlight does not project intense near-infrared across your face. If it did, FaceID wouldn't work in sunlight.

Actually, that's precisely what direct sunlight does, which is why when Face ID first came out there were reports that direct sunlight could confuse it e.g. in the Verge review of the iPhone X:

I took a walk outside our NYC office in bright sunlight, and Face ID definitely had issues recognizing my face consistently while I was moving until I went into shade or brought the phone much closer to my face than usual.

 

[Tijdelijk]

Actually, that's precisely what direct sunlight does, which is why when Face ID first came out there were reports that direct sunlight could confuse it e.g. in the Verge review of the iPhone X:

Already sorry about my post.
No the sun is not doing near infrared

 

[NJHitmen]

Already sorry about my post.
No the sun is not doing near infrared

Don't be sorry, it's good to discuss this stuff.

Anyway - the sun does do near IR, actually. There are a lot of citations out there, but here's one from a study on the effects of IR on skin:

"The spectrum of solar radiation reaching the Earth ranges from 290 to more than 1,000,000 nm and is divided as follows: 6.8% UV, 38.9% visible, and 54.3% near infrared radiation (NIR)"

Found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4745411/#R1

 

[David13_13]

Hey guys,

Wouldn't proximity sensor only be working when a call is active? Why it's always flashing each 2 seconds for no reason?

Can it be disabled?

Thank you

Anyone?

By the way, I'm trying to replicate the big flashes that shows the OP's video but I can't. I have used the front camera of my iPhone 7 and iPhone 5 both cameras, having Face ID ON and attention awareness ON also... Any ideas about why I can't capture it?

Thanks

 

[Tijdelijk]

Anyone?

By the way, I'm trying to replicate the big flashes that shows the OP's video but I can't. I have used the front camera of my iPhone 7 and iPhone 5 both cameras, having Face ID ON and attention awareness ON also... Any ideas about why I can't capture it?

Thanks

The behavior of the proximity sensor is the same on the iPhone 7 and 8 (those I could test here)

 

[Painter2002]

I can't believe I actually made it to the end of this thread... I forgot to start the popcorn before I started reading this one.

I would throw my two cents in here.. I have an iPhone X that I got on day 1 of its launch. After a few months, I did notice some headaches, and eye strain, and I turned off the Attention Awareness and that seemed to help.

But in the end, few people (if any) here provided solid evidence saying that the IR light used for FaceID could cause harm. With the basics of understanding how the different wavelengths of light work, IR from a FaceID sensor could NOT generate the heat needed to damage the cornea or other parts of your eyes anymore than walking outside and bathing your eyes in the UV rays of the sun that are reflected from concrete sidewalks and the sides of buildings.

I am not saying blindly to believe whatever a manufacturer says is safe to be true, but some basic understandings of how physics and energy works would tell you that FaceID would not in itself cause damage to your eye. Strain you eyes? Yes, that is possible when staring at any screen using bright lights that contrast from darker surroundings. But seriously hurt, I would be shocked to hear of permanent damage from that sensor.

And at the end of the day, if it concerns you that much, then don't buy it. There are thousands, and I mean literally thousands of phones to choose from out there in the world, and not all of them have FaceID. Just saying

 

[Tijdelijk]

I can't believe I actually made it to the end of this thread... I forgot to start the popcorn before I started reading this one.

I would throw my two cents in here.. I have an iPhone X that I got on day 1 of its launch. After a few months, I did notice some headaches, and eye strain, and I turned off the Attention Awareness and that seemed to help.

But in the end, few people (if any) here provided solid evidence saying that the IR light used for FaceID could cause harm. With the basics of understanding how the different wavelengths of light work, IR from a FaceID sensor could NOT generate the heat needed to damage the cornea or other parts of your eyes anymore than walking outside and bathing your eyes in the UV rays of the sun that are reflected from concrete sidewalks and the sides of buildings.

I am not saying blindly to believe whatever a manufacturer says is safe to be true, but some basic understandings of how physics and energy works would tell you that FaceID would not in itself cause damage to your eye. Strain you eyes? Yes, that is possible when staring at any screen using bright lights that contrast from darker surroundings. But seriously hurt, I would be shocked to hear of permanent damage from that sensor.

And at the end of the day, if it concerns you that much, then don't buy it. There are thousands, and I mean literally thousands of phones to choose from out there in the world, and not all of them have FaceID. Just saying

Well if you want to stick with IOS there is less choice off course
Even the new iPads are with Face id so less choice in the future if you want to buy Apple products and don't like Face id.

Returning to the old pincode is an option

 

[sddabrow]

Well if you want to stick with IOS there is less choice off course
Even the new iPads are with Face id so less choice in the future if you want to buy Apple products and don't like Face id.

Returning to the old pincode is an option

Except, the flood illuminator still goes off, even if you have FaceID off.

 

[Tijdelijk]

Except, the flood illuminator still goes off, even if you have FaceID off.

Well with the face id awareness off (so that the screen is not diming etc) I don't see it go off when filming with a IR camera.

Tried many times nothing to see except the proximity sensor (left side and very faint)
Same as with my 8 plus

 

[stafil]

I asked 4 friends to do the experiment I suggested above, and none of them reported any issues at all. Furthermore disabling FaceID and Attention Awareness features solved the problem I had with eye-pain. Finally the poll in the XR headache thread shows that only a fraction of people who had problems with XS continue to have them with XR

At this point I am running out of resources and motivation to further look into this.

 

[SDColorado]

Actually, that's precisely what direct sunlight does, which is why when Face ID first came out there were reports that direct sunlight could confuse it e.g. in the Verge review of the iPhone X:

I still have issues with my iPhone X in direct sunlight and will sometimes have to unlock it with the passcode instead.

 

[now i see it]

Geez everyone — just get an iPhone 8 Plus. Problem (real or imagined) solved.

 

[stafil]

Geez everyone — just get an iPhone 8 Plus. Problem (real or imagined) solved.

Technically you are not wrong, even just disabling the FaceID did the trick for me.

But why do *you* get annoyed by the discussions?

 

[now i see it]

This discussion is good and this thread is valuable. What is kinda baffling is that some people are clinging to these iPhones that real or imagined are giving them problems yet refuse to let go of them. Like moths fluttering around a candle or someone living next to a superfund toxic waste dump and refusing to move because they have a nice view of the mountains.

 

[bbrks]

I asked 4 friends to do the experiment I suggested above, and none of them reported any issues at all. Furthermore disabling FaceID and Attention Awareness features solved the problem I had with eye-pain. Finally the poll in the XR headache thread shows that only a fraction of people who had problems with XS continue to have them with XR

At this point I am running out of resources and motivation to further look into this.

Huuuuhhhh, thanks, I started thinking this nonsense will never end.

 

[bevsb2]

Well with the face id awareness off (so that the screen is not diming etc) I don't see it go off when filming with a IR camera.

Tried many times nothing to see except the proximity sensor (left side and very faint)
Same as with my 8 plus

This is reassuring. I used the X for a year with Face ID turned off. I initially used the XS with Face ID on and had no obvious problems and loved using Face ID, however after reading this thread my original concerns have resurfaced and I just turned off Face ID again. I agree that there is no proof for IR being harmful but I don't want to take any chances with my eyes. It bothers me that there is not a clear choice to turn these features completely off. I want to stay with the Apple ecosystem and don't want to go back to older tech which is not a long term solution.

 

[stafil]

This is reassuring. I used the X for a year with Face ID turned off. I initially used the XS with Face ID on and had no obvious problems and loved using Face ID, however after reading this thread my original concerns have resurfaced and I just turned off Face ID again. I agree that there is no proof for IR being harmful but I don't want to take any chances with my eyes. It bothers me that there is not a clear choice to turn these features completely off. I want to stay with the Apple ecosystem and don't want to go back to older tech which is not a long term solution.

You shouldn't let this thread stop you from using FaceID if you *don't* have any symptoms. And I say that as the one who started this thread.

This thread was meant for people who have issues with the FaceID, to try to understand why and how it is affecting them.

 

[unobtainium]

As with many things, a small amount of real science wrapped up in misunderstanding and false conclusions can result in a lot of misplaced fear.

Infrared (radiant heat) is absorbed by the lens of the eye, and doesn't make it to the retina. FaceID projects a low power, dispersed dot cloud, with a very low W/cm^2 (otherwise it would DESTROY battery life!)

If you have ever stood in front of a flame or other heater, or been outside with the sun on your face (even without looking at or near the sun) your cornea has been exposed to FAR more IR than you are ever likely to accumulate by using FaceID.


There are standards that govern how much IR exposure is safe. These lean heavily on the safe side. If FaceID did not comply with this, it would never have been allowed to be released for public use.

Or, another question for you: Does FaceID make your face hot? If not, how could it possibly damage you???

See this doesn’t make sense to me. If you’re exposed to more IR from standing outside in the sun, how could FaceID ever work in sunlight? These are concentrated dots of IR emitted by VCSEL (laser) are they not? I’m pretty sure that’s very different from the diffuse IR of sunlight.

Also, it’s false to claim that near-IR doesn’t reach the retina. http://photobiology.info/Rozanowska.html
[doublepost=1541612395][/doublepost]Rather than turning Face ID off entirely I disabled attention awareness and Face ID verification for password autofills. That alone reduces the number of flood illuminator flashes hugely. It’s basically just when unlocking the device now.