Finally time to ditch Apple ecosystem?

[Ethrem]

I tried everything and just kept coming back to Google. I wasn’t concerned about privacy back then. Realistically I could just move sensitive stuff to Zoho and use my VPN’s split tunneling feature with FairEmail to keep my Gmail isolated from my personal info.

I plan to run two browsers as well, one of them will be sent over the VPN and the other will not be. I like my VPN provider but I don’t like using banking over my VPN regardless so all of those will be separated.

What I need to test is how work profile isolation works with my VPN software. It’s easy enough to just dump everything into a work profile if those are the only apps the VPN can access. I’m not worried about the privacy front, I’ve had my VPN for years and never had any problems and their privacy policy is written to be concise and easy to understand, no legalese to sort through. Also checked Exodus Privacy and my VPN service doesn’t embed any trackers into their app unlike NordVPN, ExpressVPN, and a number of others. Permissions are not bad either, similar to the OpenVPN Connect app.

I need to replace my music streaming service which I’m not happy about. I have been a Slacker Radio user (now LiveXLive) since my BlackBerry days and I really liked the $20/year fee but there are more trackers and invasive permissions in that app than even Spotify has.

I’m the most concerned about Google’s spying so I may make some privacy trade offs such as LiveXLive and just firewall it when I’m not using it. I used to have a ton of music from my Soulseek days but that computer is long gone and all the CDs I had got stolen too. I don’t have the patience to build up that collection again.

Already discovered the KISS Launcher when I was testing a bunch of privacy-focused launchers on my LG G8. Really dig the minimalism and the search features are excellent as is the fact it doesn’t need data at all and it’s less than 1MB in size.

I’m ready to make this change. I imagine my battery life is going to be amazing with all this spying disabled lol.

I hear you on the mobile platform testing… I have used it all from Windows Mobile to BlackBerry to Android to iOS and even messed around with trying to port Ubuntu Touch at one point but that got to be too much work (this was way early days when it required CyanogenMod as the base) and I had a Palm Pre for all of two days before I returned it to Best Buy. Android was always my favorite for the flexibility. I probably never would have switched to iOS if it wasn’t for my switching to Xfinity Mobile and them not offering BYOD. I had already bought an HTC U11 that year and I wasn’t interested in buying a Samsung flagship with the same processor so I opted for the 8 Plus instead and just haven’t switched back yet.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I would try sideloading in an older APK of Slacker with the less permissions. Believe it or not, you're not forced to use the newest app versions with Android. Even Android 11+ will run apps dating back to Froyo, or version 2.2. One of its benefits IMO since it keeps my favorite UI intact.

I only used the free version of that as a Pandora alternative (until I started playing off the device itself) and unlike Pandora, it had far less ads, and much better music. Originally I used Slacker via Samsung Milk Music until they up and kil't it. Not sure why Samsung did, as their watch app worked wonderfully with the rotating bezel, something Spotify has not yet integrated.

The biggest battery drain in Android ever since GMS in Gingerbread has always been Google Play Services. The permissions it has are....concerning. I used to just up and disable it outright since I don't use a Google account, or remove it if rooted, but more recently many apps break as a result since they rely on it for location APIs (so offline GPS apps stop working) or on-device or cloud verification (Banking apps, some music apps, the Walmart app) or checking for updates on launch (which if they can't at least 'see' Play Services they up and crash)

So lately I just keep Play Services but block its ability to contact Google. Now all apps work, while some have delays trying to phone home to Google (but since on-device verification works, they work anyway, sometimes frozen in time) which allows walmart pay to work, and they can't check for updates and pester me about that. Location APIs can run offline just using wifi or bluetooth scanning or the GPS radio itself.

It is not a perfect solution but one I'm comfortable with. I think I might have kil't something I should not have as I think my SMS broke. I haven't gotten a response lately from anyone I've texted since Friday, which is unusual. My messages send, but instantly. They often take a few seconds to go through. I will see if my Galaxy S Relay 4G slider works as Verizon might have had another outage.

 

[Ethrem]

I suppose that’s an option to try. I really do like Slacker and it bummed me out when I saw that list of trackers on Exodus. It’s got 15 trackers in it, the most I’ve seen in any app I’ve checked so far. 31 permissions as well! :/

 

[nickdalzell1]

Don't go too far back though. The oldest version of Slacker Radio that works for me is from Android 4.3, Jelly Bean. The ones dating to Gingerbread or older seem to say 'you're using a VINTAGE version of Slacker, which is no longer supported. To continue using this version, you must pay for Premium'.

I've never tested the Premium to see if it allows that old version to run, since they tied it to 'login with Google' which obviously won't work with that old a version. Later versions might have become dependent on Google services because of that link, which has similar permissions. I used to (via root) disable trackers. A lot would launch services in the background which also had effect on battery.

At one point I used very ancient Android phones which obviously either pre-date Google services (apps were just mostly AOSP versions like Messaging, Music, Maps, Books, etc without Google branding) or were too outdated to support them (HTC Thunderbolt, Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G, etc) and I keep one of those active as a backup (the T-Mobile slider, the S Relay 4G, since I've had many issues with Verizon this year). I even thought of carrying it in case some grocery stores want to look at your phone to verify Covid Pass, because it's so old they can't see the app and deny me service. Thankfully it has not yet come to that.

 

[Ethrem]

Going through APK Mirror I grabbed the old 6.1.27 Slacker Radio version for 4.0.3+ on my HTC 10 and it works perfectly. Of course, no idea what trackers were in that one haha.

 

[nickdalzell1]

What were the permissions compared to the last one you tried?

Another benefit of 'older' apps is they use less RAM and CPU so you an often run a lot more in the background. I probably have 10+ Android 2.3 apps running now on my S20 (ColorNote Notepad, AOSP Music, Gallery, PlayerPro Legacy, Dolphin Browser Mini, etc) and it's only now using 3.7GB of the 6GB RAM. The only modern apps also running include Walmart, Samsung Health, Galaxy Wearable, NetGuard, and Camera. Only three of those modern apps have internet permission. Of the older apps only one has internet permission.

 

[I7guy]

I’m not sure it really does. How many people actually use that ecosystem fully? How many are even remotely aware of it?

A friend of my wife was astounded last week when notifications were appearing on my wife’s watch. It was as if smartwatches didn’t exist. And, yes, she’s an iPhone owner. She’s also a doctor - so you’d think she would have some awareness of these things.

But, again, how many people are really aware or even care about things like iCloud, Handoff, AirDrop and so on? How many iPhone owners also own a Mac? It’s probably a lot less than you think.

All those millenials have a good grasp on the "ecosystem". That's actually one of the great things about the "ecosystem" -- If one has multiple devices, things just happen (more or less). As far as how many people just own one Apple device? I don't know. I don't know anybody that has just one Apple device.

 

[nickdalzell1]

All those millenials have a good grasp on the "ecosystem". That's actually one of the great things about the "ecosystem" -- If one has multiple devices, things just happen (more or less). As far as how many people just own one Apple device? I don't know. I don't know anybody that has just one Apple device.

My mother and stepfather. They got iPhones, but use Windows laptops and an LG TV. Mom has an old 2nd gen iPad but often gives that one to my sister's kids who come over. It's kinda dead anyway.

 

[I7guy]

My mother and stepfather. They got iPhones, but use Windows laptops and an LG TV. Mom has an old 2nd gen iPad but often gives that one to my sister's kids who come over. It's kinda dead anyway.

Most everyone I know that has an iphone has either an apple watch and/or mac and/or ipad and usually a windows laptop. My 97 year old aunt, bless her, has an iphone and mac.

 

[nickdalzell1]

My 94 year old grandmother has a 3G Dumbphone and a Windows 10 laptop. To even activate that senior special (she can't use Jitterbugs they're too complicated to her, and smartphones are out of the question) took an act of congress. First her active AT&T SIM got hotlined, then I tried to transfer that number to Straight Talk which got hung up in limbo, so she ended up having a new number, but at least the phone works.

the 2009 DTV mess was hard on her too, she's like one of the last who relies on rabbit ears. The people at Best Buy actually sold her a new TV claiming her old one (a 1978 TouchTune Magnavox) was broken somehow, when all she needed was a converter box. Scammers. all of them. I wish I got that TV. It was literally the first to have an on-screen display which was very unique at the time!

 

[Ethrem]

What were the permissions compared to the last one you tried?

Another benefit of 'older' apps is they use less RAM and CPU so you an often run a lot more in the background. I probably have 10+ Android 2.3 apps running now on my S20 (ColorNote Notepad, AOSP Music, Gallery, PlayerPro Legacy, Dolphin Browser Mini, etc) and it's only now using 3.7GB of the 6GB RAM. The only modern apps also running include Walmart, Samsung Health, Galaxy Wearable, NetGuard, and Camera. Only three of those modern apps have internet permission. Of the older apps only one has internet permission.

I haven’t done a side by side comparison yet. Exodus Privacy has a stand-alone executable you can download and use on Linux to analyze APKs yourself so I’ll probably grab that and look into it at some point.

 

[Ethrem]

My 94 year old grandmother has a 3G Dumbphone and a Windows 10 laptop. To even activate that senior special (she can't use Jitterbugs they're too complicated to her, and smartphones are out of the question) took an act of congress. First her active AT&T SIM got hotlined, then I tried to transfer that number to Straight Talk which got hung up in limbo, so she ended up having a new number, but at least the phone works.

the 2009 DTV mess was hard on her too, she's like one of the last who relies on rabbit ears. The people at Best Buy actually sold her a new TV claiming her old one (a 1978 TouchTune Magnavox) was broken somehow, when all she needed was a converter box. Scammers. all of them. I wish I got that TV. It was literally the first to have an on-screen display which was very unique at the time!

She’s going to really be upset when that phone stops working next year!

 

[nickdalzell1]

Just for kicks and giggles, I up and removed Play Services (disabled them completely, not just block their internet access) and the only thing that complained of all 15+ of my running apps was 'Device Health Services' which I just up and disabled the notifications to it and all seems well. I forgot that I had removed 'location' permission from Walmart, so that app seems to work fine.

I checked my still-active Galaxy S Relay 4G, which runs Android 4.0.3, and it actually pre-dates Google Play Services as it had no such app under system. It did have Google Services Framework so I just disabled that.

 

[nickdalzell1]

She’s going to really be upset when that phone stops working next year!

They said my two older phones would stop working in 2018, 2019, and 2020. My S Relay, and S4 Mini. still working in 2021. I will believe it when I see it. Even Straight Talk hasn't notified her about it. If it happens, I'll look further for alternatives. It's not like when the FCC killed the AMPS network. T-mobile has no plans to kill 3G either, only AT&T, and depending on Covid and being connected to essential services, might be delayed again. But her phone is unlocked and is compatible with T-Mobile, so a SIM swap might buy another year or so.

In my case, I got plenty of various VoLTE backups in the drawer. I hate to be tinfoil hat mode on this, but I think it's not at all about VoLTE, but getting everyone on 5G and making sure everyone has a new enough phone to enable CovidPass. But who knows what's real anymore?

 

[Ethrem]

Just for kicks and giggles, I up and removed Play Services (disabled them completely, not just block their internet access) and the only thing that complained of all 15+ of my running apps was 'Device Health Services' which I just up and disabled the notifications to it and all seems well. I forgot that I had removed 'location' permission from Walmart, so that app seems to work fine.

I checked my still-active Galaxy S Relay 4G, which runs Android 4.0.3, and it actually pre-dates Google Play Services as it had no such app under system. It did have Google Services Framework so I just disabled that.

Yeah I was pretty sure GPS didn’t exist back then. Definitely a bonus.

 

[nickdalzell1]

It didn't, but its predecessor, Google Mobile Services, did since Android 2.3. I remember it was the main reason the phones that time would lag like heck and use up all the internal storage if you so much as logged into a Google account! Later on, Android 2.3 became compatible with the earliest versions of the Play Store (replacing Market, RIP) and Google Play Services.

Android 2.3 Gingerbread—Four years later, the OS just won’t die

Years of support means the OS looks very different today than it did in 2010.

arstechnica.com

My HTC Thunderbolt runs the same version, Android 4.0.3 with Sense 3, but it had an early version of Play Services pre-loaded. It didn't appear to work though, but that's no loss here!

 

[Ethrem]

They said my two older phones would stop working in 2018, 2019, and 2020. My S Relay, and S4 Mini. still working in 2021. I will believe it when I see it. Even Straight Talk hasn't notified her about it. If it happens, I'll look further for alternatives. It's not like when the FCC killed the AMPS network. T-mobile has no plans to kill 3G either, only AT&T, and depending on Covid and being connected to essential services, might be delayed again. But her phone is unlocked and is compatible with T-Mobile, so a SIM swap might buy another year or so.

In my case, I got plenty of various VoLTE backups in the drawer. I hate to be tinfoil hat mode on this, but I think it's not at all about VoLTE, but getting everyone on 5G and making sure everyone has a new enough phone to enable CovidPass. But who knows what's real anymore?

T-Mobile is killing their 3G 10/1 supposedly. Sprint 3G 1/1/2022. Sprint LTE 6/30/2022. T-Mobile 2G will be last 12/2022.

They stopped activating non-VoLTE devices on June 16th.

T-Mobile's 3G shutdown is back on schedule for October

Also, Sprint's LTE network now has an end date

www.androidpolice.com

They have plans to convert all of that spectrum to 5G so it’s definitely going to happen eventually. The big fight they just had with Dish over these shutdown dates tells me that they’re not going to slow their plans down unless the government makes them and there has been no sign of that happening.

Tracfone has begun letting customers know they have to upgrade. Since Straight Talk is a Tracfone brand, I’m sure they’ll be getting notices out soon enough.

Got an email that I have to upgrade flip phone for VoLTE

My 91yr old Mom uses a basic flip phone (LG-440G). She has the $30 plan which is renewed every 90 days. Her phone uses AT&T network. A few years ago they sent her that LG phone for free. This email is not offering any free upgrades. When I click the link they don't have any new flip...

www.howardforums.com

 

[Ethrem]

It didn't, but its predecessor, Google Mobile Services, did since Android 2.3. I remember it was the main reason the phones that time would lag like heck and use up all the internal storage if you so much as logged into a Google account! Later on, Android 2.3 became compatible with the earliest versions of the Play Store (replacing Market, RIP) and Google Play Services.

Android 2.3 Gingerbread—Four years later, the OS just won’t die

Years of support means the OS looks very different today than it did in 2010.

arstechnica.com

My HTC Thunderbolt runs the same version, Android 4.0.3 with Sense 3, but it had an early version of Play Services pre-loaded. It didn't appear to work though, but that's no loss here!

Honestly I didn’t pay as much attention to all of it back then. Was too busy flashing my phones to the ROM of the day to bother lol.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I got emails and texts on my S4 Mini insisting that my phone would definitely stop working 1 January 2020. But it's still trucking along, and those notices have oddly enough, ceased. At least Verizon has delayed plans to sunset older networks indefintely.

Android Gingerbread is still my favorite Android version, and CyanogenMod 7.1 my favorite custom ROM based on it. The newest Android 2.3 phone I got is a later model, 4G LTE Pantech Breakout, with at least 1GB RAM (but still crap internal storage!). That one actually blazed running it. Many phones shipped with Android 2.3 that had less than 512MB RAM and struggled.

 

[Ethrem]

I got emails and texts on my S4 Mini insisting that my phone would definitely stop working 1 January 2020. But it's still trucking along, and those notices have oddly enough, ceased. At least Verizon has delayed plans to sunset older networks indefintely.

Android Gingerbread is still my favorite Android version, and CyanogenMod 7.1 my favorite custom ROM based on it. The newest Android 2.3 phone I got is a later model, 4G LTE Pantech Breakout, with at least 1GB RAM (but still crap internal storage!). That one actually blazed running it. Many phones shipped with Android 2.3 that had less than 512MB RAM and struggled.

I was an HTC fanboy. Not even ashamed to admit it. I loved Sense UI ever since it came out and previously used TouchFlo 3D on HTC Windows Mobile phones. I was not big on CyanogenMod. It always seemed unstable and while it was fun to tinker with, having my phone crash like the old Windows 95 days was not as fun, especially since it always seemed to happen when I needed my phone to actually work like when using it for navigation. The one exception I found was my Samsung Captivate - it ran CyanogenMod better than it ever ran stock.

I don’t know that I have a favorite Android version because HTC always buried the UI anyway.

 

[WriteNow]

I hate to be tinfoil hat mode on this, but I think it's not at all about VoLTE, but getting everyone on 5G and making sure everyone has a new enough phone to enable CovidPass. But who knows what's real anymore?

Well, I may be in "tin foil hat" mode, too, but this has been one of my thoughts, too. Plus smart phones enable all sorts of other apps to do things like contract tracing. Or allow the government to track location.

Past this..I have noted that forcing people into smart phones helps with big tech spying/data collection. It's interesting to note that from what I can see, today's low end feature phones are all basically smart phones in a flip phone package. And I notice the one with KaiOS has "Google Assistant." The AOSP phone sounds like it has that or something similar. Any time I see Google involved, I assume that Google will be collecting data.

I did these comparisons because I've got an old flip phone that will sooner or later stop working, and I'd thought of a modern flip phone. Until i started researching. Now I"m thinking a smart phone might actually be better, even if I can't move to something that can be totally deGoogled, since at least there are known options like NetGuard.

There are some phones that appear to be just phones--at least from what I can see. But they are niche products, and pretty expensive.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Samsung's Nature UX skin appealed to me when I used the SIII and upwards, mainly because it encompassed two things I love, nature, and skeuomorphism. I admit I totally missed the heyday of Sense, only seeing its bland newer version on the One M8 (Blinkfeed was stupid!). That's why I got the Thunderbolt to see if it worked better in 2020 than in 2011, and ironically enough, it did. I never update my apps so no slowdowns, and it only seemed to work on LTE, never would drop down to 1x or 3G at all, it was either LTE or No Service. So that might have benefitted battery life (nothing says hot phone and bad battery than dropping to 1X in the country!)

I could go all day at work with it, but needed to charge it twice daily since it charged sllllllooowww! I got spoiled with my S20 FE's fast wireless charging I admit. But at least you can get a Thunderbolt or EVO for literally $49 at Amazon.

One phone I really wished I had played with was the Palm Pre. I see old screenshots of WebOS and it just screams fun to me. No way to use it now, as 3G is uncertain, and without Palm servers, you can't even use one by SIM swap. I also missed the T-Mobile Sidekick days. I wish I could play with one of those too. I bet calling and SMS still works (well, so long as no one follows through on their killing 3G!)

 

[Ethrem]

Samsung's Nature UX skin appealed to me when I used the SIII and upwards, mainly because it encompassed two things I love, nature, and skeuomorphism. I admit I totally missed the heyday of Sense, only seeing its bland newer version on the One M8 (Blinkfeed was stupid!). That's why I got the Thunderbolt to see if it worked better in 2020 than in 2011, and ironically enough, it did. I never update my apps so no slowdowns, and it only seemed to work on LTE, never would drop down to 1x or 3G at all, it was either LTE or No Service. So that might have benefitted battery life (nothing says hot phone and bad battery than dropping to 1X in the country!)

I could go all day at work with it, but needed to charge it twice daily since it charged sllllllooowww! I got spoiled with my S20 FE's fast wireless charging I admit. But at least you can get a Thunderbolt or EVO for literally $49 at Amazon.

One phone I really wished I had played with was the Palm Pre. I see old screenshots of WebOS and it just screams fun to me. No way to use it now, as 3G is uncertain, and without Palm servers, you can't even use one by SIM swap. I also missed the T-Mobile Sidekick days. I wish I could play with one of those too. I bet calling and SMS still works (well, so long as no one follows through on their killing 3G!)

See I hated Samsung’s UI. It was always those devices I would run CyanogenMod or AOSP ROMs on lol. I don’t even know why I hated it. I guess I just hated change and years of using HTC made it too difficult to get used to anything else. I still think the only reason I got used to the iPhone was because it was either that or Samsung. I wasn’t about to give up my $1-something Xfinity Mobile line to go back to my HTC U11 so I just sucked it up and dealt with it. Didn’t take long to adjust admittedly.

I didn’t mind Blinkfeed. It wasn’t the best HTC ever came up with but it wasn’t the worst thing either. Never had any radio problems with any of my HTCs but I also haven’t used on on Verizon’s network ever. Charging speed doesn’t really affect me either since I only use the 12W charger with my 12 Pro Max and was using the 5W before that unless I needed to top my XS Max up quickly - I would use my 30W Anker charger at that point.

The Palm Pre was the biggest disappointment ever. I was at Best Buy two hours before they opened on release day and I returned it like two days later. Lack of apps made it way more limited than the BlackBerry I was coming from and it wasn’t weighted properly so it didn’t feel right in the hand. Like it always felt like it was going to fall backwards when the keyboard was slid open. Lots of random lag and a mushy keyboard too.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I would have loved WebOS. Since my main app needs are core apps like phone, messages, and music, I don't need a ton of third-party offerings. I do get the resistance to change and use what you like. I probaby would have felt the same if I used Sense before TouchWiz. After iOS 7, however, I had two options, tolerate a cartoon of a UI (I HATE flat UI! that's why later Sense bored me--it wasn't Sense 3! BlinkFeed obviously catered to those social media people who like a news feed--it just didn't appeal to me one bit) or go to whomever made a skeuo at that time, and Samsung just sold themselves to me. They had similarities to iOS 6 and the nature part made it even more fun for me. The depth of their skin did help adjust to PWM exposure since all Samsung flagships use AMOLED, which at that time often gave me migraines.

My Thunderbolt shipped with a cheap third-party charger, not an OEM one. It could take 7 hours to get it from 30% to 100%. Either way, I must be 100% satisfied with what I use, and not merely tolerate it. If there were some future where my old apps ceased to work, I'd have nowhere to go. That's why there's a drawer full of old phones to pull from if one of mine break.

 

[RecentlyConverted]

Android has Nearby Share. https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/go...-phones-now-heres-how-to-use-the-new-feature/

But not degoogled Android phones.