Finally time to ditch Apple ecosystem?

[rehkram]

To each, their own. I still drive a 1978 John Deere tractor. I'd upgrade it tomorrow but have better things to spend my money on right now. I could cast my adherence to an old (but good) piece of equipment as some kind of sentimental virtue. It's not, the JD does the job well enough for my needs right now and I have other monetary priorities.

Consumer software, and the prerequisite consumer hardware needed to run it on, is an entirely different matter. I say this as a thirty-five year IT guy (developer). The idea of running, for example, a Commodore Amiga in 2021 in my mind counts as "interesting", I guess. Gotta have a hobby. To each their own.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I'm not running an Amiga. But tech has plateaued so much these days that having the 'latest and greatest' is just wasteful. BTW keep the '78 Deere. It's a classic, and unlike a modern one, you can work on it yourself, and it's paid for. It will still be running when any modern one is sitting in a scrapyard. They don't make 'em like they used to.

 

[rehkram]

Tech goes through a series of plateaus, like any other human endeavor, whether industry-wide or personal. I'm not prone to locking myself into generalizations regarding notional- or actual plateaus. Show me a plateau and I'll show you an exponential improvement over time.

I take your point about the "right to repair" and am a big advocate for it, fixing most of my own stuff where possible.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I don't work on tractors for a living but I do work on golf carts and side-by-sides, and the modern ones are totally unfriendly to service/mechanics. They're only getting worse, so I assume any other vehicle/tech is the same way. I just decided to 'NOPE!' right out of that type of crap. Keep what I love, use what I want, and enjoy life, not stress out over what I can't control. Let the lemmings buy buy buy until the planet can't sustain them anymore.

 

[rehkram]

Yeah, it's interesting to dig into these things a little deeper. Your signature line "Change for the sake of change is always a bad idea" for example. I would qualify that statement somewhat, since it's not always a bad idea to embrace change, sometimes it's a no-brainer.

For example, LED lighting technology. Who'd prefer to go back to the inefficiencies, short service life, carbon footprint and running costs of incandescent- or fluorescent lighting? Not I.

Where change for the sake of change does become toxic is when anti-competitive, invisible ideas designed to solely benefit the manufacturer have been incorporated into a new- or updated product. I'm talking about concepts like "planned obsolescence", "market share retention", "no right to repair", others.

Some manufacturers talk a good game, selling the benefits of said proprietary practices for the customer. We should beware of the potential to hook us into their eco systems. Competition is good. Monopolies are not. Capitalism is supposed to promote competition. What often seems to happen is that the greater the market share you have, the greater the temptation becomes to increase your dominance using discreet, predatory design decisions.

IT is a big offender, and IT is shot through every other industry. John Deere's "black box" tractor control systems are a great example.

 

[sracer]

Only problem is with Big Sur, keeping my skeuomorphic UI is hard to impossible. I can't stand flat UI design (it reeks of going back to 80s computer graphics) and I can't downgrade or use old enough versions of apps from Mountain Lion since they killed 32-bit support. I can't even delete the Mac App Store or Music or other apps to even attempt to replace them with older versions since they got a clone of System File Checker that respawns them soon after you trash them. For something based on UNIX it lacks total ability to customize.

Deleting the app store on Android, Linux doesn't EOL them. Deleting the Mac App Store shouldn't cause problems. I don't need it.

Glad to see that I'm not alone in my affinity for a skeuomorphic UI.

My Mac OS devices are on Mojave and remain on that for the rest of their productive lives. But sticking with an older version of Mac OS is a challenge that gets more difficult with each new release of the OS.

 

[sracer]

Yeah, it's interesting to dig into these things a little deeper. Your signature line "Change for the sake of change is always a bad idea" for example. I would qualify that statement somewhat, since it's not always a bad idea to embrace change, sometimes it's a no-brainer.

For example, LED lighting technology. Who'd prefer to go back to the inefficiencies, short service life, carbon footprint and running costs of incandescent- or fluorescent lighting? Not I.

Where change for the sake of change does become toxic is when anti-competitive, invisible ideas designed to solely benefit the manufacturer have been incorporated into a new- or updated product. I'm talking about concepts like "planned obsolescence", "market share retention", "no right to repair", others.

Some manufacturers talk a good game, selling the benefits of said proprietary practices for the customer. We should beware of the potential to hook us into their eco systems. Competition is good. Monopolies are not. Capitalism is supposed to promote competition. What often seems to happen is that the greater the market share you have, the greater the temptation becomes to increase your dominance using discreet, predatory design decisions.

IT is a big offender.

There's a difference between "all change is bad" and "change for the sake of change is bad". The latter says that if change doesn't bring any net benefits then it isn't a good change. The change from incandescent to LED lighting DOES bring benefits. It's not simply just to do something different.

 

[nickdalzell1]

That's what I meant in my sig. I don't oppose all change (or I would not have gone vegan later on personally) especially when it improves things. But when it say, just changes design of a UI for no reason that nobody asked for (such as iOS 7) or causes more problems than solutions (the more you overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain) or lowers quality or standards (many modern tools made of plastic designed to fall apart in a year) that's what I hate. That's just running out of ideas and doing whatever you can to justify an 'upgrade.' That's also copying what someone else does (Google copying a lot of bad Apple ideas, such as flat design) and not being unique.

Just wanted to clarify, my sig and beliefs aren't on par with 'I don't believe in electricity because oil lamps work' or 'horses are more reliable than cars' I'm not THAT bad! I'm a curmudgeon but I'm not stuck in the stone age.

change for the sake of change would be making cars with 3 or 8 wheels instead of four in a lame attempt to 'be different'. Some designs are timeless and don't need to change. Backup cameras for example are a great update and a great idea. They actually improve things. Going to 8 wheels would be just different but not benefit anyone (except tyre manufacturers, perhaps)

 

[keeper]

I’m keeping my Apple products while they are functioning, I’m in to Mac, phone, ipad and watch.

However I am removing the apple ecosystem.
My Synology NAS now hosts photos, documents, contacts and calendar.
All removed from iCloud and gives me the option to migrate to any platform.
My iCloud usage has gone from nearly 50 gig to next to nothing with just basic app data syncing but no personal data.

 

[M5RahuL]

For now, I’m keeping my iOS devices on 14.7.x ( basically not updating to iOS 15 ). Been using iOS, Android, Windows..Symbian through out the years, so not really locked into any ecosystem.

The Apple Watch, which I use extensively, may be the hardest Apple gadget to give up..Hoping Google wear OS will mitigate that constraint!

 

[WriteNow]

Going to 8 wheels would be just different but not benefit anyone (except tyre manufacturers, perhaps)

But, by the time the marketing department is done, those 8 wheels will be The Best Idea Ever! And something You Must Have--Now! And if the car world were like computers, you'd have to upgrade within a couple of years--because the highways would change and cars with a mere 4 wheels won't run reliably any longer.

Change just for change is one thing that has irritated me about computers for years. Probably since the 1990s, even.

 

[nickdalzell1]

For now, I’m keeping my iOS devices on 14.7.x ( basically not updating to iOS 15 ). Been using iOS, Android, Windows..Symbian through out the years, so not really locked into any ecosystem.

The Apple Watch, which I use extensively, may be the hardest Apple gadget to give up..Hoping Google wear OS will mitigate that constraint!

No, Wear OS is awful. Siri is loads better than Wear OS's version of the Google Assistant. The best alternative to an Apple watch is a Galaxy Watch 3. Samsung Health is loads better than the boring Apple Health/Google Fit apps. Doesn't need a Samsung phone either.

 

[nickdalzell1]

But, by the time the marketing department is done, those 8 wheels will be The Best Idea Ever! And something You Must Have--Now! And if the car world were like computers, you'd have to upgrade within a couple of years--because the highways would change and cars with a mere 4 wheels won't run reliably any longer.

Change just for change is one thing that has irritated me about computers for years. Probably since the 1990s, even.

Well, I hear that Teslas get 'software updates' too whether you like it or not. I wonder if they throttle on the last update since by then the batteries on your old Tesla would be below 80% health? No more fast takeoff or more than 30MPH for you!

 

[rehkram]

There's a difference between "all change is bad" and "change for the sake of change is bad". The latter says that if change doesn't bring any net benefits then it isn't a good change. The change from incandescent to LED lighting DOES bring benefits. It's not simply just to do something different.

So how do we identify "change for the sake of change", versus "change for the better"? Experimentation, obviously.

The problem with complex systems is that it's just not that simple, by definition. Buried in the millions of lines of code of an otherwise seemingly bland release could be really useful architecture extensions, aimed at providing hooks for "the next big thing".

I just go ahead and upgrade, couldn't care less about cosmetics or the odd UI changes, so what? You're either on the bus or off it. Sentimental attachment to old hardware and particularly software I find a tad bizarre. But that's just me, you should do whatever you want.

 

[nickdalzell1]

There's another line in my signature. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Needlessly updating and upgrading often turns into 'If it ain't broke, I'll fix it till it is'

Besides, if the 'update' makes things frustrating, makes me relearn everything and doesn't offer me anything except anger, when the old version worked perfectly fine, what sense was there in updating?

Our planet sadly can't handle needless, infinite consumerism. Eventually we just have to stop and enjoy what we have. Life's too important to care about the 'next big thing'.

Besides, all modern phones seem to be doing is removing features, not making actual game changing revolutions like in 2009-2012. The next phone doesn't go from a grainy pixel density to a retina display, the next upgrade doesn't add in an IR blaster or SD card slot, and obviously the next OS upgrade just makes things boring and it just feels like work. I have simply grown sick and tired of it myself. That's why I haven't updated an app since 2014, and why I really don't care for most modern smartphones when all they are doing is adding multiple cameras I never needed and a smartphone camera is always garbage compared to a DSLR.

I'm starting to become like Radiotvphononut on YouTube.

 

[sracer]

So how do we identify "change for the sake of change", versus "change for the better"? Experimentation, obviously.

The problem with complex systems is that it's just not that simple, by definition. Buried in the millions of lines of code of an otherwise seemingly bland release could be really useful architecture extensions, aimed at providing hooks for "the next big thing".

I just go ahead and upgrade, couldn't care less about cosmetics or the odd UI changes, so what? You're either on the bus or off it. Sentimental attachment to old hardware and particularly software I find a tad bizarre. But that's just me, you do what you want.

No. But you are free to believe that. As a software developer for over 40 years I am well experienced with what is required to make changes for the better rather than doing things differently simply because it is different.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I'd rather 'updates' actually fix bugs and improve security, and leave everything else alone. Seems most modern OS and app updates add more bugs and move things around needlessly. Another thing which annoys me is that companies and developers don't listen to their customers or worse, tell them off calling me a 'luddite' or saying 'get used to it, old man!'

Aren't companies supposed to listen to the demand instead of ignore it? Or have free market economics become reversed? If a customer or the feedback system is not clamoring for tons of unneeded change why even bother? Nobody asked for flat UI design until after iOS 7 came out, and then were simply told to hate anything else. There was no demand for it!

30 years or so ago, if a company were so hostile to their customers by telling them 'get used to it, you old man' or 'you're a luddite if you don't like our new store' they'd be out of business in a heartbeat. Today, no company can do any wrong since all they care about is shareholders, certainly not their customers.

 

[rehkram]

(the more you overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain)

You obviously haven't done a lot of plumbing! Planning is everything.

 

[rehkram]

No. But you are free to believe that. As a software developer for over 40 years I am well experienced with what is required to make changes for the better rather than doing things differently simply because it is different.

And as a software developer for the same amount of time so am I. "Change for the sake of change" I have never experienced on any project, it only exists in the minds of end users who have had their cheese moved.

 

[rehkram]

Nobody outside of Apple asked for APFS, so far as I know. Maybe Apple should have asked permission from the user base before implementing it. Thank goodness they didn't, we'd be stuck with obsolete disk management.

 

[rehkram]

I will now shut up. Thank you, and good night!

 

[mrochester]

I'd rather 'updates' actually fix bugs and improve security, and leave everything else alone. Seems most modern OS and app updates add more bugs and move things around needlessly. Another thing which annoys me is that companies and developers don't listen to their customers or worse, tell them off calling me a 'luddite' or saying 'get used to it, old man!'

Aren't companies supposed to listen to the demand instead of ignore it? Or have free market economics become reversed? If a customer or the feedback system is not clamoring for tons of unneeded change why even bother? Nobody asked for flat UI design until after iOS 7 came out, and then were simply told to hate anything else. There was no demand for it!

30 years or so ago, if a company were so hostile to their customers by telling them 'get used to it, you old man' or 'you're a luddite if you don't like our new store' they'd be out of business in a heartbeat. Today, no company can do any wrong since all they care about is shareholders, certainly not their customers.

consumers dont know what they want until you show them it, I.e., you’ve got to make the product first and then see whether consumers want it or not.

 

[twdawson]

As you can see from my sig i only have one Apple device left. That will be replaced when funds allow.

 

[nickdalzell1]

consumers dont know what they want until you show them it, I.e., you’ve got to make the product first and then see whether consumers want it or not.

When the customers shout 'NO!' or 'I HATE THIS' then what? Tell them to 'get used to it?'

Free market is in a sad state anymore. We need to go back to it. Where customers dictate the direction instead of the companies while we are just supposed to sit and take it like force-feeding an infant asparagus.

I was perfectly happy with Android 2.3 and iOS 6 before that. Can anyone tell me one thing broken about either one that needed fixing? Other than stroking Jony Ive's or Matias Duarte's ego? Anyone?

Can you perhaps explain why some apps pop-up a message saying 'you must update this app to the latest version in order to continue using it' when it worked perfectly fine the week prior? what if I or anyone else refused to update it because we don't want to learn it all over again because the UI changes? Sometimes we don't update apps because we don't think the app is broken or in need of one. Developers must realize we are not all 80 year old plus grandparents when we don't update stuff. Some of us are just smart and don't need to have any frustrating interruptions to our flow. Sometimes, best leave it alone.

Make updates optional, let the customer decide. It's his/her phone or device. Not a software developer's.

 

[mrochester]

When the customers shout 'NO!' or 'I HATE THIS' then what? Tell them to 'get used to it?'

Free market is in a sad state anymore. We need to go back to it. Where customers dictate the direction instead of the companies while we are just supposed to sit and take it like force-feeding an infant asparagus.

I was perfectly happy with Android 2.3 and iOS 6 before that. Can anyone tell me one thing broken about either one that needed fixing? Other than stroking Jony Ive's or Matias Duarte's ego? Anyone?

Can you perhaps explain why some apps pop-up a message saying 'you must update this app to the latest version in order to continue using it' when it worked perfectly fine the week prior? what if I or anyone else refused to update it because we don't want to learn it all over again because the UI changes? Sometimes we don't update apps because we don't think the app is broken or in need of one. Developers must realize we are not all 80 year old plus grandparents when we don't update stuff. Some of us are just smart and don't need to have any frustrating interruptions to our flow. Sometimes, best leave it alone.

Make updates optional, let the customer decide. It's his/her phone or device. Not a software developer's.

When consumers stop buying your product, change what you are doing. Ignore people who complain online, they almost certainly don’t represent the majority and almost certainly are only considering their own needs.