Finally time to ditch Apple ecosystem?

[jseymour]

That proper effort required me to do a big disconnect from iCloud. And the big gotcha in getting out of Apple's ecosystem is iCloud. The moment you don't tie yourself to iCloud you can come and go really easily.

I don't think it occurred to Apple what a huge mistake it might prove to have been to make an issue of trying together CSAM and iCloud. "Just don't save it to iCloud and you won't be spied-upon." "Ok," says user: *click* "Hmmm... This stuff ain't so great anymore. Why am I paying a premium and suffering the restrictions?" And, just like that, alternatives start looking better.

I know our iStuff isn't quite so fascinating, anymore, since I started severing the different products from one another. I'm about back to where we were on Android--which is to say hardly integrated at all.

 

[SapperMike]

I tried to move from an iPhone to a Pixel 5 but it was the little things that drove me back to Apple. For example, I have to download a third party app to open .zip files on the Pixel but not the iPhone. Next, I cannot open .HEIC format from an email photos unless I download them first. Also, I cannot restore WhatsApp messages from iPhone to my new Pixel. I might be doing all of these things wrong, but I have tried everything that I have read and it is too complicated to perform these simple task. I was really hoping that it would be more simple, as I really liked the feel of the Pixel 5.

 

[Just sayin...]

I was torn at first, but as soon as I disconnected my Apple equipment, I didn't really care. There's a line between liking a product and blindly loving a company, and I found myself slipping into the latter. The more I researched Apple's insane policies (soldered components, ridiculous costs, privacy policies, etc), the less I felt like I belong. I have to ride out my current iPhone payment plan, but when it's done, this thing - and everything else - is going up on Ebay. I'm moving back to Android. Say what you want about Google, but at least there's custom ROMs and third-party app stores. Also works beautifully with Linux, which I miss and love. Already installed my preferred distro on my old Time Machine drive in preparation.

I’ve completed my spin-up of a Linux install on my old XPS13 and have finally migrated ALL of my data to said system. Also have just completed a test restore of my backups, so think I’m good to go. I’ve also turned off automatic updates on my iOS devices, so will remain on iOS 14 until Apple either backtracks on their proposed spyware implementation or they release iOS 15 complete with AI surveillance - then I’ll start planning my Android migration.

A couple questions keep coming up: Why has Apple decided to throw away their valuable product differentiation and what is the true end-game here? And, if I have made product and app selection sacrifices in the name of privacy/security, why should I continue with a slightly substandard selection if privacy/security are suddenly waved away (i.e. Apple Maps vs. Google Maps)? And yes, I understand what Apple has proposed. However, there’s more…a LOT more:

 

[boswald]

I’ve completed my spin-up of a Linux install on my old XPS13 and have finally migrated ALL of my data to said system. Also have just completed a test restore of my backups, so think I’m good to go. I’ve also turned off automatic updates on my iOS devices, so will remain on iOS 14 until Apple either backtracks on their proposed spyware implementation or they release iOS 15 complete with AI surveillance - then I’ll start planning my Android migration.

A couple questions keep coming up: Why has Apple decided to throw away their valuable product differentiation and what is the true end-game here? And, if I have made product and app selection sacrifices in the name of privacy/security, why should I continue with a slightly substandard selection if privacy/security are suddenly waved away (i.e. Apple Maps vs. Google Maps)? And yes, I understand what Apple has proposed. However, there’s more…a LOT more:

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve already made my move so I won’t go back to Apple even if they do backtrack. This isn’t something you should “test,” like it’s some kind of beta process or something. Sure, other companies spy (they all do), but I don’t think any of their competitors put privacy on a pedestal like Apple did.

 

[RedRage]

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve already made my move so I won’t go back to Apple even if they do backtrack. This isn’t something you should “test,” like it’s some kind of beta process or something. Sure, other companies spy (they all do), but I don’t think any of their competitors put privacy on a pedestal like Apple did.

That's exactly it. Other companies have never acted like privacy was #1 - Apple pretty much has slapped everyone in the face who has invested in their ecosystem over the years. And the scary thing is that most people don't seem to care...until it changes to something they care about. Then they will act like they never saw it coming lol

 

[I7guy]

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve already made my move so I won’t go back to Apple even if they do backtrack. This isn’t something you should “test,” like it’s some kind of beta process or something. Sure, other companies spy (they all do), but I don’t think any of their competitors put privacy on a pedestal like Apple did.

Don't think Apple will miss anyones business. But I guess it's okay if other vendors scan everything, but don't TALK about privacy. Apples' stance on your PII hasn't changed and imo, I don't see any disconnect or hypocrisy.

 

[boswald]

That's exactly it. Other companies have never acted like privacy was #1 - Apple pretty much has slapped everyone in the face who has invested in their ecosystem over the years. And the scary thing is that most people don't seem to care...until it changes to something they care about. Then they will act like they never saw it coming lol

I’ve noticed that happening more often about a lot of things; it’s not a problem unless it’s personal inconvenience.

 

[nickdalzell1]

IT took little over an hour or two to get my laptop on Linux, and get all my data from my NAS. My phone has been a degoogled Samsung since May, and my watch runs Tizen. My Apple TVs have been replaced with a Fire TV stick.

All the same apps, shows, movies, services because I was smart enough to not get locked into any ecosystem.

Only email now is from a site called mail.com. I forwarded all my Gmail and Hotmail, and signed out of those. I don't even login to sites on the HP running Linux(except this forum). Firefox has updates disabled (you can do that in Linux!), the only other browser is open source Chromium.

Now, if you're curious, many sites that rely on Google ReCaptcha don't like Linux, and you get into an endless loop if you do login or at least attempt to. Also, if any services I still use need 2FA, I'm SOL since not one of my Android tablets/phones are new enough or even logged in to get the little 'are you trying to sign in?' prompts.

 

[5105973]

IT took little over an hour or two to get my laptop on Linux, and get all my data from my NAS. My phone has been a degoogled Samsung since May, and my watch runs Tizen. My Apple TVs have been replaced with a Fire TV stick.

All the same apps, shows, movies, services because I was smart enough to not get locked into any ecosystem.

Only email now is from a site called mail.com. I forwarded all my Gmail and Hotmail, and signed out of those. I don't even login to sites on the HP running Linux(except this forum). Firefox has updates disabled (you can do that in Linux!), the only other browser is open source Chromium.

Now, if you're curious, many sites that rely on Google ReCaptcha don't like Linux, and you get into an endless loop if you do login or at least attempt to. Also, if any services I still use need 2FA, I'm SOL since not one of my Android tablets/phones are new enough or even logged in to get the little 'are you trying to sign in?' prompts.

Just curious, why are you going through so much “above and beyond” levels to secure your privacy? I admire your commitment to it but man, that’s definitely costing you a lot of effort. Also what’s so secure about your mail provider of choice above others like maybe proton mail that also touts privacy and security.

 

[nickdalzell1]

My mail provider is not as 'mainstream' so I suppose it gives peace of mind but I am unsure overall. Just trying to disassociate from Google, Microsoft and Apple. It's not as 'bad' as you make it seem. I've actually been doing it on Android a long time, dating back to Android 2.3, Gingerbread, which I experimented with and learned to work on at the same time I had my iPhone 3GS and wanted to see how things were on the other side. Along the way I found memorable apps and later when iOS 7 came out jumped ship to Samsung who were the only other OEM doing a very nice, nature-themed skeuomorphic UI. Over time I just kept using the same apps since side-loading was easy and kept them all on a Linux server running an NAS service (Samba).

I've always preferred Android when it was more open, never liked the whole linking to Google later on. I remember the original, open apps called Maps, Books, Music and so on, before Google locked them down and turned them into spyware selling your data. I also preferred the Android Market, hated and still hate the ever-changing-each-other week Google "Play" Store. I have been disabling that and Google Play Services (GPM on Gingerbread) and it always netted me tons more battery life (days, vs. hours) and speed in the process.

Today, however, apps tend to break if they can't at least "See" Google Play Services and Google Services Framework. GPS apps, including most open-source variants can't find location since the location API now goes through Play Services. Banking apps can't verify properly without seeing it as well.

Thankfully later on I found a proper workaround that allows those services to run, but not phone home anymore. Location APIs and local caching as well as on-device verification can be done offline, so an app called NetGuard No Root Firewall can block internet access to such apps (as well as normally offline apps like music apps to disable those pesky ad banners) and that way apps depending on them can run so long as all they need Google Play Services for are location APIs and on-device scanning. If an app depends on actual internet via that service, obviously it breaks. I have no such apps. Many of my apps are from the Gingerbread era which allows my favorite UI to keep on keeping on even on an S20 FE. I still got that fun, easy on my eyes naturey skin.

There are some apps that still depend on Google Play Services though but mainly for checking for updated versions to produce those annoying 'you must update this app to continue using it'. Since disabling the internet to Play Services, the apps never know any such new version exists and continue running indefinitely until I guess they either cease to exist or the server ultimately dies.

I don't do updates. In the past it either ruined the UI (see iOS 7, Android 5 Lollipop) or changes vital things around (rearranging the aisles at Walmart) where I have to constantly relearn the app and it's frustrating. With my methods, not only is my peace of mind intact, but I can actually enjoy my device, worry free, using the apps pretty much blind since they never change. I'm an 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' kinda guy. I get that from my great grandfather.

My question is why do so many people even care how I do things? If it works for me, who cares how 'old' my apps are or how 'old' my phones and tablets are? Judging from most reactions I get online in various forums and Reddit, I appear to be some 'threat' to those who love the newest all the time, and they can't understand why I prefer old things. I can't understand why they even worry!

TL;DR, I don't use Proton Mail for two reasons: 1) the inbox is temporary, and there are certain emails I need to receive (auto insurance, credit card notifications) that need a static email address, not a disposable one. 2) It won't work with Samsung's email app, which I've been using since the Galaxy SII. I love skeuo, and older apps. I also prefer older phones, and mail.com also has this nice benefit of working with ancient email clients, which most modern ones do not.

 

[5105973]

My mail provider is not as 'mainstream' so I suppose it gives peace of mind but I am unsure overall. Just trying to disassociate from Google, Microsoft and Apple. It's not as 'bad' as you make it seem. I've actually been doing it on Android a long time, dating back to Android 2.3, Gingerbread, which I experimented with and learned to work on at the same time I had my iPhone 3GS and wanted to see how things were on the other side. Along the way I found memorable apps and later when iOS 7 came out jumped ship to Samsung who were the only other OEM doing a very nice, nature-themed skeuomorphic UI. Over time I just kept using the same apps since side-loading was easy and kept them all on a Linux server running an NAS service (Samba).

I've always preferred Android when it was more open, never liked the whole linking to Google later on. I remember the original, open apps called Maps, Books, Music and so on, before Google locked them down and turned them into spyware selling your data. I also preferred the Android Market, hated and still hate the ever-changing-each-other week Google "Play" Store. I have been disabling that and Google Play Services (GPM on Gingerbread) and it always netted me tons more battery life (days, vs. hours) and speed in the process.

Today, however, apps tend to break if they can't at least "See" Google Play Services and Google Services Framework. GPS apps, including most open-source variants can't find location since the location API now goes through Play Services. Banking apps can't verify properly without seeing it as well.

Thankfully later on I found a proper workaround that allows those services to run, but not phone home anymore. Location APIs and local caching as well as on-device verification can be done offline, so an app called NetGuard No Root Firewall can block internet access to such apps (as well as normally offline apps like music apps to disable those pesky ad banners) and that way apps depending on them can run so long as all they need Google Play Services for are location APIs and on-device scanning. If an app depends on actual internet via that service, obviously it breaks. I have no such apps. Many of my apps are from the Gingerbread era which allows my favorite UI to keep on keeping on even on an S20 FE. I still got that fun, easy on my eyes naturey skin.

There are some apps that still depend on Google Play Services though but mainly for checking for updated versions to produce those annoying 'you must update this app to continue using it'. Since disabling the internet to Play Services, the apps never know any such new version exists and continue running indefinitely until I guess they either cease to exist or the server ultimately dies.

I don't do updates. In the past it either ruined the UI (see iOS 7, Android 5 Lollipop) or changes vital things around (rearranging the aisles at Walmart) where I have to constantly relearn the app and it's frustrating. With my methods, not only is my peace of mind intact, but I can actually enjoy my device, worry free, using the apps pretty much blind since they never change. I'm an 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' kinda guy. I get that from my great grandfather.

My question is why do so many people even care how I do things? If it works for me, who cares how 'old' my apps are or how 'old' my phones and tablets are? Judging from most reactions I get online in various forums and Reddit, I appear to be some 'threat' to those who love the newest all the time, and they can't understand why I prefer old things. I can't understand why they even worry!

TL;DR, I don't use Proton Mail for two reasons: 1) the inbox is temporary, and there are certain emails I need to receive (auto insurance, credit card notifications) that need a static email address, not a disposable one. 2) It won't work with Samsung's email app, which I've been using since the Galaxy SII. I love skeuo, and older apps. I also prefer older phones, and mail.com also has this nice benefit of working with ancient email clients, which most modern ones do not.

Wow thanks for the insights and historical perspective on the Android side of things before Google Play Services made so much dependent upon it. I went from a Palm Treo to iPhone and then to the ill fated Note 7. Somewhere in there I had a Hitachi G1000. At the time I had any of those phones, I just knew how to use them but didn’t understand how they worked or the environment around them.

It was fascinating to see your description of a (brief) time where apps and services began before a framework that allowed for intrusive spying and tracking took it all over. It’s like me trying to convey to the kids what life was like before 9-11 and mass shootings became common and we could move and communicate more freely and there wasn’t a camera on every wall and corner monitoring us, be it CCTV at work and public spaces or the more recent dash cams or door cameras. It was a different world and different life. And so it was with the apps, once upon a time. I did not know that. I thought the tracking and surveillance was always like that with Android.

I guess my interest in how and why you do things is because you do things so differently from many of the rest of us and it does require a level of knowledge about technology, products and services, as well as effort to get everything to run well. Meanwhile, the rest of us are signing our privacy and data away for convenience. If you can operate effectively without that same deal with the devil, it’s naturally going to be intriguing to those of us wanting to break free ourselves.

In addition to the matter of security and privacy yes, I’m definitely intrigued that you’ve figured out how to freeze time and keep the aesthetics and devices you love viable. I’m also fond of the way things were, sometimes. Not all change looked or felt better or right. But I thought it was unavoidable. And you’re living proof that with the know how and effort it doesn’t have to be. But you’re refreshingly honest about what could break doing it your way.

So we look to someone who has done it and ask is it worth it? Is it fun, even? Now if you’re getting negative treatment about this, it’s probably just jealousy from people who can’t do this for themselves so they’re going to put down those who can. I’m not sure what Reddit is, but over time I’ve heard enough to get the impression it’s an unpleasant environment. And if the commentary there is anything like Twitter, which I do use, I’m not surprised if you’re encountering rudeness on it.

I assure you my questions and curiosity come from a positive attitude toward what you’re doing. I just wish it weren’t all so far above my skill set and knowledge to do for myself.

And my husband would never let me set anything up to do so. We good naturedly argue enough as it is that I lock down location tracking and use the highest privacy settings I can, even though it means I also forfeit a lot of features. I also read through every detail on the TOS documents I agree to. He rolls his eyes at me when I rant about what we are asked to agree to when we sign these things. The Microsoft one that came with the Surface he attempted to hand down to me appalled me so badly I didn’t sign it for several days. I took a lot of teasing for that and even the kids were scoffing at me. But my husband has forgotten what privacy and freedom are and the kids have never known. I hope I don’t sound melodramatic.

 

[russell_314]

I don't think it occurred to Apple what a huge mistake it might prove to have been to make an issue of trying together CSAM and iCloud. "Just don't save it to iCloud and you won't be spied-upon." "Ok," says user: *click* "Hmmm... This stuff ain't so great anymore. Why am I paying a premium and suffering the restrictions?" And, just like that, alternatives start looking better.

I know our iStuff isn't quite so fascinating, anymore, since I started severing the different products from one another. I'm about back to where we were on Android--which is to say hardly integrated at all.

I'm really annoyed with Apple but I don't think people who don't care about being spied upon will turn off iCloud and people who dislike it know it doesn't stop any scanning on the device. Apple saying "Oh we won't do it" doesn't make me feel any better.

As to switching phones I think Apple isn't stupid and they know your choices are limited. It's either Google Android where maybe they're not spying on you in your phone but I bet they are. Then you have privacy focused versions of Android that aren't Google but good luck getting your banking or other apps that are important to those who've lived with a smartphone for more than a year. So you end up either with a Google phone that can do everything or a touch screen not so smart phone that can't.

Now we get to computers. I have both so if I were to "switch" it would just be not using one. Although I'm typing this on my Windows PC it doesn't feel ideal and the whole OS just isn't polished like macOS. I have it for PC gaming so for the most part I launch my game and never see Windows.

For most of us this isn't going to be painful. If you're a well behaved citizen that goes with the political flow and doesn't try to start trouble you'll be fine. The closest thing that might get you some trouble in the USA is supporting one particular person but it only might cause you some legal or financial pain but no one is likely to drag you out in the street and execute you. Now other countries not so much. I feel sorry for some of those who live in countries where just wearing the wrong clothes can be your ending. If you live in that sort of country you need to realize the iPhone isn't as secure. Before those governments had to pay some hacker group millions for something like Pegasus so they had to choose targets wisely. Only "important" people who were causing a lot of trouble became targets. Now they just put a request in to Apple or better yet if their government runs the servers like China they can just collect the info themselves without having to ask Apple.

I live in the USA so I'm used to government surveillance. We have government cameras on every street corner plus all internet traffic is scanned and collected. Unless you're a threat they ignore you. Sadly this means they ignore people who distribute CSAM and I wish they would go after them. I mean NSA and agencies with the surveillance capability not law enforcement who only finds out if someone tells them.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Wow thanks for the insights and historical perspective on the Android side of things before Google Play Services made so much dependent upon it. I went from a Palm Treo to iPhone and then to the ill fated Note 7. Somewhere in there I had a Hitachi G1000. At the time I had any of those phones, I just knew how to use them but didn’t understand how they worked or the environment around them.

It was fascinating to see your description of a (brief) time where apps and services began before a framework that allowed for intrusive spying and tracking took it all over. It’s like me trying to convey to the kids what life was like before 9-11 and mass shootings became common and we could move and communicate more freely and there wasn’t a camera on every wall and corner monitoring us, be it CCTV at work and public spaces or the more recent dash cams or door cameras. It was a different world and different life. And so it was with the apps, once upon a time. I did not know that. I thought the tracking and surveillance was always like that with Android.

I guess my interest in how and why you do things is because you do things so differently from many of the rest of us and it does require a level of knowledge about technology, products and services, as well as effort to get everything to run well. Meanwhile, the rest of us are signing our privacy and data away for convenience. If you can operate effectively without that same deal with the devil, it’s naturally going to be intriguing to those of us wanting to break free ourselves.

In addition to the matter of security and privacy yes, I’m definitely intrigued that you’ve figured out how to freeze time and keep the aesthetics and devices you love viable. I’m also fond of the way things were, sometimes. Not all change looked or felt better or right. But I thought it was unavoidable. And you’re living proof that with the know how and effort it doesn’t have to be. But you’re refreshingly honest about what could break doing it your way.

So we look to someone who has done it and ask is it worth it? Is it fun, even? Now if you’re getting negative treatment about this, it’s probably just jealousy from people who can’t do this for themselves so they’re going to put down those who can. I’m not sure what Reddit is, but over time I’ve heard enough to get the impression it’s an unpleasant environment. And if the commentary there is anything like Twitter, which I do use, I’m not surprised if you’re encountering rudeness on it.

I assure you my questions and curiosity come from a positive attitude toward what you’re doing. I just wish it weren’t all so far above my skill set and knowledge to do for myself.

And my husband would never let me set anything up to do so. We good naturedly argue enough as it is that I lock down location tracking and use the highest privacy settings I can, even though it means I also forfeit a lot of features. I also read through every detail on the TOS documents I agree to.

I have been a Techno-Geek since CP/M and PC-DOS. I was there when the original flat UI design known as Amiga Workbench 1.5 and Windows 1.x released. I have always loved to learn. My great grandfather taught me how to fix things and how to appreciate what you already have and save $$$. I always believed that basic repair skills and reading manuals were expected of us and what every kid was taught. Unfortunately once 'Proudly Made in the USA' became 'Made in China' that mentality has been bred out of us. I'm one of the only Gen-X people out there with the mindset of someone born in 1907.

When I was given a PC back in 1988, I didn't have a dumbed down UI. I had a case, motherboard, a CRT monitor, all the system disks, and a dictionary-sized manual. My dad basically said 'read it, build it and learn it.' That was my first foray into computers. I at first hated the idea. Building my own PC, doing everything myself after being slightly spoiled by the Apple IIgs computers in my 4th grade computer lab that felt like the future. Here were bits and pieces of a Clone PC (a Vendex HeadStart Plus 8088 XT) to assemble. But in the end, I learned, and later learned CP/M and later DOS, enjoyed the era of DOS games, and eventually went onto Windows for a long time before learning and toying with Linux in 2001.

But I retained my love of learning, and never stopped after getting out of college. I always read the manuals and that way I'm not caught off guard and often learn things I never knew something could do. I buy the 'For Dummies' books because today they're the closest things to manuals since all you get is a simple quick start guide. I repair all my appliances myself.

Android was at first inferior in my opinion to the iPhone 3GS running iOS 5, since the latter felt so darned smooth and quick. Android looked close, but not the same, crashed a lot (and let you know), ran out of RAM a lot, random reboots (there was a joke image of a Fruit Loops box called Android Boot Loops, not to be confused with boot looping LG phones) and SD Card read errors. Android lagged a ton. Part of the challenge was getting the performance level close to an iPhone. Later I played with custom ROMs (which were far more fun in 2011) and hacking the system. I later learned that to keep performance as high as brand new, NEVER and I mean NEVER update your apps. People loved hitting that 'update' button and before long forums would fill to the brim with complaints of bugs, unnecessary UI changes, and lag. I learned to pretty much keep the apps the same version that came with the phone and if your phone say, came out in 2011, never go newer on any app version you install than 2012 at most. My S20 FE flies with apps from 2009-14. I uninstalled most of the built ins, got rid of Google, and even some of the boring, flat design apps and replaced them with AOSP versions (Music, Clock, Calculator, file browser, web browser) from my NAS, or my own personal 'android market'.

It's a challenge, and time consuming but once you're done you got a device that is YOURS, confidence nothing will change it and frustrate you, and you just use and enjoy it. Battery life and performance is off the scales. Also, the time consuming nature of re-doing everything again avoids needless consumerism or the 'I wanna new phone' addiction. Not that many phones today really offer anything as game-changing as they used to. I remember the Galaxy S4 having an IR blaster, full-HD screen, twice the processing power, and double the RAM of my Galaxy SIII. Back then, upgrades actually added stuff. Today they remove it. You don't see phones with sliding keyboards or phones as unique as the Motorola Backflip. You don't even get IR blasters anymore. What's odd is that a phone losing all the features I'd come to expect of a smartphone 'upgrade' costs $1000 or more. All for multiple cameras. The camera is the last feature I care about on a phone. It's always inferior to a proper camera. Always will be.

I love being stuck in time. 2010 was a great year for me. I had a companion deer (a doe named Daisy, rest in peace my baby), and the future looked so bright. UI was at its peak, design of hardware felt top notch. Music was still alright too. Each iteration added more. Each upgrade was a revolution. What happened to it? I suppose I will never know. We got dumb and everything went 'mainstream' as I was told. Now I grow to despise those terms, 'catering to the masses' or 'to the mainstream' as it always means dumbing down.

That said, I'm done rambling.

but here's some screenshot of Android Market, in case you were curious:



Android 2.3:





Of course sometimes I just use an old Android 2.3 phone just to skew the usage stats!

 

[WriteNow]

As to switching phones I think Apple isn't stupid and they know your choices are limited. It's either Google Android where maybe they're not spying on you in your phone but I bet they are. Then you have privacy focused versions of Android that aren't Google but good luck getting your banking or other apps that are important to those who've lived with a smartphone for more than a year. So you end up either with a Google phone that can do everything or a touch screen not so smart phone that can't.

I'm certain Apple knows the options are limited. And standard Android is arguably worse. There is Google. Then there is the possibility of a non-Google phone having software added that can spy on the user. I heard an argument a few days ago, in fact, that if one is using Android, one might opt for a Pixel so that there won't be a separate phone maker to possibly spy on you.

And privacy minded Android does have issues from what I hear. I've heard of people who use a deGoogled Android phone, but it becomes too limiting or too much of a hassle, and get an iPhone. I also hear of people who get by with a deGoogled phone as the primary phone, but have to keep a second phone because of something they can't do with their primary phone.

 

[WriteNow]

My great grandfather taught me how to fix things and how to appreciate what you already have and save $$$.

This reminds me of when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s--and my family fixed things when they broke. My father could do minor repairs, and then anything else got professional attention. A completely foreign idea for many in the 2021 world!

I, myself, tend to try to keep things going. Repairs sometimes aren't viable, though. But with computers, I've managed to get a lot of use out of hardware that's arguably past the "sell by" date. Up until about 10 years ago, I used older Classic MacOS computers for some productivity tasks--1990s word processors had the features I needed, and didn't do anything to annoy me, unlike some later software. I've also given many second hand Windows computers a new life with Linux (including the one I'm posting from now).

I learned to pretty much keep the apps the same version that came with the phone and if your phone say, came out in 2011, never go newer on any app version you install than 2012 at most. My S20 FE flies with apps from 2009-14. I uninstalled most of the built ins, got rid of Google, and even some of the boring, flat design apps and replaced them with AOSP versions (Music, Clock, Calculator, file browser, web browser) from my NAS, or my own personal 'android market'.

When I was running Classic MacOS all the time, I had a real bias for keeping the System software as close to the minimum supported OS as I could get. The newer versions might be supported, and have some interesting features--but I found that there was a performance hit that wasn't worth it.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

I have been a Techno-Geek since CP/M and PC-DOS. I was there when the original flat UI design known as Amiga Workbench 1.5 and Windows 1.x released. I have always loved to learn. My great grandfather taught me how to fix things and how to appreciate what you already have and save $$$. I always believed that basic repair skills and reading manuals were expected of us and what every kid was taught. Unfortunately once 'Proudly Made in the USA' became 'Made in China' that mentality has been bred out of us. I'm one of the only Gen-X people out there with the mindset of someone born in 1907.

When I was given a PC back in 1988, I didn't have a dumbed down UI. I had a case, motherboard, a CRT monitor, all the system disks, and a dictionary-sized manual. My dad basically said 'read it, build it and learn it.' That was my first foray into computers. I at first hated the idea. Building my own PC, doing everything myself after being slightly spoiled by the Apple IIgs computers in my 4th grade computer lab that felt like the future. Here were bits and pieces of a Clone PC (a Vendex HeadStart Plus 8088 XT) to assemble. But in the end, I learned, and later learned CP/M and later DOS, enjoyed the era of DOS games, and eventually went onto Windows for a long time before learning and toying with Linux in 2001.

But I retained my love of learning, and never stopped after getting out of college. I always read the manuals and that way I'm not caught off guard and often learn things I never knew something could do. I buy the 'For Dummies' books because today they're the closest things to manuals since all you get is a simple quick start guide. I repair all my appliances myself.

Android was at first inferior in my opinion to the iPhone 3GS running iOS 5, since the latter felt so darned smooth and quick. Android looked close, but not the same, crashed a lot (and let you know), ran out of RAM a lot, random reboots (there was a joke image of a Fruit Loops box called Android Boot Loops, not to be confused with boot looping LG phones) and SD Card read errors. Android lagged a ton. Part of the challenge was getting the performance level close to an iPhone. Later I played with custom ROMs (which were far more fun in 2011) and hacking the system. I later learned that to keep performance as high as brand new, NEVER and I mean NEVER update your apps. People loved hitting that 'update' button and before long forums would fill to the brim with complaints of bugs, unnecessary UI changes, and lag. I learned to pretty much keep the apps the same version that came with the phone and if your phone say, came out in 2011, never go newer on any app version you install than 2012 at most. My S20 FE flies with apps from 2009-14. I uninstalled most of the built ins, got rid of Google, and even some of the boring, flat design apps and replaced them with AOSP versions (Music, Clock, Calculator, file browser, web browser) from my NAS, or my own personal 'android market'.

It's a challenge, and time consuming but once you're done you got a device that is YOURS, confidence nothing will change it and frustrate you, and you just use and enjoy it. Battery life and performance is off the scales. Also, the time consuming nature of re-doing everything again avoids needless consumerism or the 'I wanna new phone' addiction. Not that many phones today really offer anything as game-changing as they used to. I remember the Galaxy S4 having an IR blaster, full-HD screen, twice the processing power, and double the RAM of my Galaxy SIII. Back then, upgrades actually added stuff. Today they remove it. You don't see phones with sliding keyboards or phones as unique as the Motorola Backflip. You don't even get IR blasters anymore. What's odd is that a phone losing all the features I'd come to expect of a smartphone 'upgrade' costs $1000 or more. All for multiple cameras. The camera is the last feature I care about on a phone. It's always inferior to a proper camera. Always will be.

I love being stuck in time. 2010 was a great year for me. I had a companion deer (a doe named Daisy, rest in peace my baby), and the future looked so bright. UI was at its peak, design of hardware felt top notch. Music was still alright too. Each iteration added more. Each upgrade was a revolution. What happened to it? I suppose I will never know. We got dumb and everything went 'mainstream' as I was told. Now I grow to despise those terms, 'catering to the masses' or 'to the mainstream' as it always means dumbing down.

That said, I'm done rambling.

but here's some screenshot of Android Market, in case you were curious:

View attachment 1824274

Android 2.3:

View attachment 1824276

View attachment 1824277

Of course sometimes I just use an old Android 2.3 phone just to skew the usage stats!

I'm thoroughly enjoying these posts. I've been using PDAs and smartphones for around 20 years now and I remember what it was like when they were communication devices/tools vs. marketing and surveillance platforms. I remember that old android market too, along with NO app stores on the PalmOS & Windows Mobile phones that came before. Any apps you wanted that didn't come preinstalled, you had to know where to look and what to look for, then back up your CABs & PRCs in case you ever had to wipe your phone. Kids these days don't know how easy they have it with their automatic backups and clouds lol. It was a wild west back then but it was FUN. Many fond memories of building custom ROMs for those old devices too. I randomly logged back into my old PPCGeeks & HowardForums accounts a few months ago and I got legit emotional reading all those old discussions. 2010 was a good year for me too, I got my HD2 that year and put Android on it. I had a friend with the same phone actually pay me to put Android on his too. Such good times.

I do love my modern tech, but god I miss the old days of tech so damn much sometimes. I can't wait to bore my son with long-winded tales of his dorky old mom's glory days on XDA, in the times before everything got locked down and monetized.

 

[5105973]

I have been a Techno-Geek since CP/M and PC-DOS. I was there when the original flat UI design known as Amiga Workbench 1.5 and Windows 1.x released. I have always loved to learn. My great grandfather taught me how to fix things and how to appreciate what you already have and save $$$. I always believed that basic repair skills and reading manuals were expected of us and what every kid was taught. Unfortunately once 'Proudly Made in the USA' became 'Made in China' that mentality has been bred out of us. I'm one of the only Gen-X people out there with the mindset of someone born in 1907.

When I was given a PC back in 1988, I didn't have a dumbed down UI. I had a case, motherboard, a CRT monitor, all the system disks, and a dictionary-sized manual. My dad basically said 'read it, build it and learn it.' That was my first foray into computers. I at first hated the idea. Building my own PC, doing everything myself after being slightly spoiled by the Apple IIgs computers in my 4th grade computer lab that felt like the future. Here were bits and pieces of a Clone PC (a Vendex HeadStart Plus 8088 XT) to assemble. But in the end, I learned, and later learned CP/M and later DOS, enjoyed the era of DOS games, and eventually went onto Windows for a long time before learning and toying with Linux in 2001.

But I retained my love of learning, and never stopped after getting out of college. I always read the manuals and that way I'm not caught off guard and often learn things I never knew something could do. I buy the 'For Dummies' books because today they're the closest things to manuals since all you get is a simple quick start guide. I repair all my appliances myself.

Android was at first inferior in my opinion to the iPhone 3GS running iOS 5, since the latter felt so darned smooth and quick. Android looked close, but not the same, crashed a lot (and let you know), ran out of RAM a lot, random reboots (there was a joke image of a Fruit Loops box called Android Boot Loops, not to be confused with boot looping LG phones) and SD Card read errors. Android lagged a ton. Part of the challenge was getting the performance level close to an iPhone. Later I played with custom ROMs (which were far more fun in 2011) and hacking the system. I later learned that to keep performance as high as brand new, NEVER and I mean NEVER update your apps. People loved hitting that 'update' button and before long forums would fill to the brim with complaints of bugs, unnecessary UI changes, and lag. I learned to pretty much keep the apps the same version that came with the phone and if your phone say, came out in 2011, never go newer on any app version you install than 2012 at most. My S20 FE flies with apps from 2009-14. I uninstalled most of the built ins, got rid of Google, and even some of the boring, flat design apps and replaced them with AOSP versions (Music, Clock, Calculator, file browser, web browser) from my NAS, or my own personal 'android market'.

It's a challenge, and time consuming but once you're done you got a device that is YOURS, confidence nothing will change it and frustrate you, and you just use and enjoy it. Battery life and performance is off the scales. Also, the time consuming nature of re-doing everything again avoids needless consumerism or the 'I wanna new phone' addiction. Not that many phones today really offer anything as game-changing as they used to. I remember the Galaxy S4 having an IR blaster, full-HD screen, twice the processing power, and double the RAM of my Galaxy SIII. Back then, upgrades actually added stuff. Today they remove it. You don't see phones with sliding keyboards or phones as unique as the Motorola Backflip. You don't even get IR blasters anymore. What's odd is that a phone losing all the features I'd come to expect of a smartphone 'upgrade' costs $1000 or more. All for multiple cameras. The camera is the last feature I care about on a phone. It's always inferior to a proper camera. Always will be.

I love being stuck in time. 2010 was a great year for me. I had a companion deer (a doe named Daisy, rest in peace my baby), and the future looked so bright. UI was at its peak, design of hardware felt top notch. Music was still alright too. Each iteration added more. Each upgrade was a revolution. What happened to it? I suppose I will never know. We got dumb and everything went 'mainstream' as I was told. Now I grow to despise those terms, 'catering to the masses' or 'to the mainstream' as it always means dumbing down.

That said, I'm done rambling.

but here's some screenshot of Android Market, in case you were curious:

View attachment 1824274

Android 2.3:

View attachment 1824276

View attachment 1824277

Of course sometimes I just use an old Android 2.3 phone just to skew the usage stats!

Ah that was an awesome stroll down memory lane! And it’s great you’ve been able to preserve what you love. (You had a deer pal? I’m sorry she’s passed away. It’s amazing to make a special connection to wildlife. I’ve had a few opportunities, myself.

Anyway, yeah my dad is very similarly minded. He fixes everything from cars to appliances and raised me to do the same, but I never achieved quite his skill level and we figured out it was probably wise to limit my contact with power tools because I seem to be a klutz!

And my dad is self taught on computers, which came around well after he retired. I’m really proud of him for how much he learned since his mid 70’s. Unfortunately he’s got his hands full taking care of my mom the last few years, plus surviving several different major cancers. So we help with whatever he can’t manage.

My husband is also similarly minded as you, but taking care of his parents and mine and sometimes his siblings and their kids, and his job being a treadmill of constant turmoil doesn’t leave any time anymore so he’s burned out and just focuses on playing with the new phones and their cameras. He used to jailbreak iPhones and build our computers. I miss watching him do that.

I’m also kind of sandwiched right now between raising the next generation and looking after the previous one, so my problem is lack of energy. We spend so much time in hospitals. Sometimes I feel we raised our family in ER and ICU waiting rooms.

That’s a huge reason why I’ve got the hobby of playing with the new phones every year. It’s something I could still occupy my mind with but not so much that I’d mind putting it aside to be there to help an elder or kid with whatever they need. I’ve tried to keep up other hobbies and interests but it wasn’t working out. I used to sculpt and that’s something I emotionally can not handle being interrupted and forced to drop to attend to some emergency situation.

So, I like getting new phones and playing with them but Apple started this trend of removing features and selling everyone on the idea that less is more and should cost more. It’s odd to me to see people vehemently insisting it’s better to NOT have an SD card slot or a 3.5 mm port. With Samsung and Google copying them on that it’s taken some of the enjoyment out.

I found myself nodding in agreement with so much that you said. Yes, when I first got my iPhone 7 Plus I loved it. It was smooth as butter. It was a wonderful Christmas surprise gift so I wanted to hang onto it. But it wasn’t long that one or two upgrades were issued and then the phone was never the same afterward and kept getting worse. So a phone I had meant to keep for at least two years, I ditched within the one year warranty. I don’t have anywhere near your understanding of technology so I thought this is just the way it is and nothing can be done about it. It’s been absolutely eye opening to read about what you’re doing. Thank you so much for taking the time out to explain it all!

 

[nickdalzell1]

Yeah you don't get control over updates on Apple devices at all. iPhones will incessantly nag you and if you keep ignoring it, either one of two things happen (depending on how new the iOS is on it)

1) most of your apps break, insist to update to latest iOS version to keep using them, while core apps might keep working (phone, sms, music, etc). Sucks if you use a lot of third party games, shopping apps, or streaming services

2) the iPhone will eventually lock into updating anyway, whether you like it or not. There's a timer built into my 6S that will force the update eventually no matter if you turn automatic updates off or dismiss the 'iOS 15 is now available for your iPhone' prompt hundreds of times. At least the 3GS required plugging into iTunes, downloading the *.IPSW file and installing it yourself.

Daisy yea she was a beauty. She was someone's pet that I visited starting 2009, she was 13 years old then. She made it to 2013 before old age finally took her. Ironically, that was about the time apps started getting cartoon UIs and flat designs. They were far more interesting when Cover Flow and the gloss was intact. My old Samsung phones that never supported newer updates (I actually love that Android has limited update support!) still got the glossy nature UI (Called TouchWiz Nature UX) that makes water drop sounds on each tap. If it were possible to root my S20 FE, I could replace 'touch.ogg' with that droplet sound and make the modern phone do the same. I got the UI pretty much the same, and I love modern tech too, but I love making a blend of modern hardware with classic software. Back in 2010 phones had little more than 250MB (MEGAbytes) of RAM which even Android 2.3 struggled with, and literally 30MB (MEGAbytes) of internal storage. One app install from Market and you got 'low disk space' warnings and nothing synced anymore. You couldn't even receive SMS messages! So yea the hardware has certainly come a long way, but software is a massive downgrade. I don't miss CP/M or WorkBench 1.5 at all. I hate seeing a modern take on either one these days. I cling to skeuo until my server dies.

I do have a connected home that responds to voice commands (although I pretty much automated it so everything happens on its own depending on season, my presence, or time of day) using a combo of and old SmartThings hub (no longer supported, but old apps work!), Philips HUE bulbs, Cree lights, Nest thermostat, many smart TVs (although our old living room TV, a 1988 Zenith Digital System 3 37" CRT TV lives in my garage, watching classic M*A*S*H when doing work on the vehicles or doing lawn work--NEVER seen a repair, still working), and robotic vacuums. I work 9 hours a day on the weekdays in summer, on golf carts. It's hard work so I don't have the energy to really do house work when I get home, so it helps a ton. I enjoy tech still, but I have little reason to buy new things anymore. They just aren't upgrades today. They're not fun anymore. I got a drawer full of backup phones in case mine break. So far those backups are a Motorola G7 Power, Motorola E6, Samsung Galaxy Note 2, Samsung Galaxy SIII, Samsung Galaxy S4 (both unlocked), Samsung Galaxy J3 Orbit, and LG Stylo 5 (all of them are skeuo-fied, basically the very template I've followed since 2010) so all I have to do is pop a SIM into them and go about my day. each one has the same apps, copies of everything on my server. All set up and ready to go.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I'm certain Apple knows the options are limited. And standard Android is arguably worse. There is Google. Then there is the possibility of a non-Google phone having software added that can spy on the user. I heard an argument a few days ago, in fact, that if one is using Android, one might opt for a Pixel so that there won't be a separate phone maker to possibly spy on you.

And privacy minded Android does have issues from what I hear. I've heard of people who use a deGoogled Android phone, but it becomes too limiting or too much of a hassle, and get an iPhone. I also hear of people who get by with a deGoogled phone as the primary phone, but have to keep a second phone because of something they can't do with their primary phone.

Not me, I got a second phone as a backup. My primary phone still does everything I ask of it. All AOSP and Samsung apps mostly, with some old apps I keep around from the Android 2.3 days. I don't have any instance where I can't do something with my S20 FE that I can do with my Galaxy S Relay (other than use that fun sliding keyboard to make texting easier!)

 

[russell_314]

Not me, I got a second phone as a backup. My primary phone still does everything I ask of it. All AOSP and Samsung apps mostly, with some old apps I keep around from the Android 2.3 days. I don't have any instance where I can't do something with my S20 FE that I can do with my Galaxy S Relay (other than use that fun sliding keyboard to make texting easier!)

How does that work with banking or financial apps like the app for your bank or credit card company or apps like Venmo? I was told they aren't available outside of the Google Play store. Is there some workaround? Are shopping apps like Amazon or eBay available? For music is Spotify, Pandora, or iHeartRadio available? I'm looking at what apps I use on my iPhone and seeing if I could make it work. I'm not necessarily planning on ditching the iPhone but I like to know my options with this mess Apple is doing.

 

[russell_314]

I'm certain Apple knows the options are limited. And standard Android is arguably worse. There is Google. Then there is the possibility of a non-Google phone having software added that can spy on the user. I heard an argument a few days ago, in fact, that if one is using Android, one might opt for a Pixel so that there won't be a separate phone maker to possibly spy on you.

And privacy minded Android does have issues from what I hear. I've heard of people who use a deGoogled Android phone, but it becomes too limiting or too much of a hassle, and get an iPhone. I also hear of people who get by with a deGoogled phone as the primary phone, but have to keep a second phone because of something they can't do with their primary phone.

I don't think keeping a second phone would be practical for me. It would either mean paying my carrier for a second line or getting a cheap prepaid plan for it. Plus carrying around two phones just seems like a PITA. Basically Apple is hoping people feel like they don't have a choice so they just accept it. It's like social media platforms. You can either play by their rules or don't play at all. There's no other game in town.

 

[nickdalzell1]

How does that work with banking or financial apps like the app for your bank or credit card company or apps like Venmo? I was told they aren't available outside of the Google Play store. Is there some workaround? Are shopping apps like Amazon or eBay available? For music is Spotify, Pandora, or iHeartRadio available? I'm looking at what apps I use on my iPhone and seeing if I could make it work. I'm not necessarily planning on ditching the iPhone but I like to know my options with this mess Apple is doing.

The only banking app I use is my Amex Serve app, and it will run on a Kindle so it's not dependent on Play Services. Keep in mind that Play Services and Services Framework is NOT disabled, but I killed their internet connection with NetGuard No Root Firewall so they only run offline. So all apps such as Walmart and Ebay and Amazon Music can do with them is check for updates (which fails so no forced app updates) or use location APIs (which run offline just fine). I actually disabled location access to most apps since IMO they don't need it and it isn't as private.

As for music apps, Spotify (built in to my S20 FE) still works fine, Pandora (from Android 2.3, backed up on my NAS) works, Sirius XM 3.0 (from Android 4.0) works, and I am not sure about iHeartRadio (don't use it) but Slacker radio (again, from Android 4.0) works fine. All those music apps existed before Google Services were a thing so just look online for an older *.APK file from a site such as Apkmirror.com, or an alternative app store such as Aptoide (the closest modern take on Android Market) just be sure to enable 'unknown sources' in Settings so those options work. They're under security.

You can root some phones (Pixels, Motorola phones and some unlocked Blu and other cheapies) but root is what breaks a majority of apps today, especially since Google SafetyNet became hard-coded into Android. but you don't need root to go AOSP, just use NetGuard to disable the ability for Google apps to phone home, then disable the apps such as Maps, Youtube and such (use the browser, preferably an open source browser to access sites such as YouTube or Facebook) and disable any other built-in app you don't need, or find alternatives from AOSP or F-Droid to replace them (clock, music player, email) There are tons of alternatives. My maps app is Open Street Maps. Downloads offline so you don't need to be connected to use it (saves battery). But I often fall back to my Garmin Nuvi from 2013. It finds better routes for locations that Google would often take the worst route to.

I don't use streaming services since all my music is on-device, but I find Slacker to have better playlists (and far less ads even on the free version). Pandora has really gone downhill. Boss at work relies on Pandora (she doesn't understand anything else, bless her heart) and it's literally 20 songs with ads every other song.

The steps might feel tiring, but you only need to do it once. Once my devices are set up the way I like, I don't bother installing anything else, or update anything, and often delete the app store or disable it. The cumbersome nature of setting up another device ensures I don't get the impulse to buy a new device later on. I made sure plenty of backups exist for my phones and tablets. Some I still use (other phones as home phones in other rooms or tablets for reading books)

 

[nickdalzell1]

Just another thing I miss about ancient Android 2.3, 'USB Mass Storage'. Didn't matter if your PC or Mac ran Windows 10 or Windows 98SE or Mac OS X Tiger. The feature allowed your phone to act as a USB thumb drive simply by toggling a setting in the settings app. Today, you either need special apps or jump through hoops known as MTP which sucks in comparison. Keep in mind most phones running Android 4.0.3 (the last supported 'update' the HTC Thunderbolt got) kept the feature longer than normal because the OEM still cared for their customers. I also really miss when notification icons had color. They've been basic white too long for me. At least my AOD shows color.

 

[ColdShadow]

You can easily ditch iPhone and keep using Mac.
devices like Apple Watch are easily replaceable and not essential anyway.

that’s what I’m planning to do.
Keeping my iMac,Apple TV,Airpods but get rid of iPhone.(mainly due to their new ridiculous anti privacy approach)

I’ve done this before (temporarily) replacing iPhone with Android while using Mac without any issue.

there are alternatives to Apple software already better in many ways anyway.like Chrome,One Note,etc etc all on Mac too.
No need to be chained to their “ecosystem”.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Only problem is with Big Sur, keeping my skeuomorphic UI is hard to impossible. I can't stand flat UI design (it reeks of going back to 80s computer graphics) and I can't downgrade or use old enough versions of apps from Mountain Lion since they killed 32-bit support. I can't even delete the Mac App Store or Music or other apps to even attempt to replace them with older versions since they got a clone of System File Checker that respawns them soon after you trash them. For something based on UNIX it lacks total ability to customize.

Deleting the app store on Android, Linux doesn't EOL them. Deleting the Mac App Store shouldn't cause problems. I don't need it.