FirePro in New Mac Pro is FirePro W9000

[syrinxx]

Gpu

hi i am not a pro but i am interested if this new machine is able to handle new 3d games well?

i always wanted a mac pro cause of the possibility to change the gpu if needed.

for sure this is a workstation but in my world if i buy a mac i would also love to play a good game sometimes.

the imac sadly offers no gpu change possibility. so my hope was the new mac pro would fit my needs...

any ideas or infos?

thx

 

[jasonvp]

So the thunderbolt outputs will be used as video out? not a direct out form the GPU?

Look at the pictures available on Apple's site. There are no video outs from the cards, just a single HDMI and 6 TBolts. If 1080p is your thing, the HDMI is perfect. For real displays, use the TBolts.

 

[ND40oz]

Thanks.

So the thunderbolt outputs will be used as video out? not a direct out form the GPU?

Displayport runs over thunderbolt, thunderbolt just also carries PCIe at the same time in the same signal.

The W9000 supports 6 displayport 1.2 mst outputs. A single displayport 1.2 mst output can support 4 1920x1080 displays if you have displayport 1.2 capable monitors with dasiychaining support.

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/DrivingMultipleDisplaysFromaSingleDisplayPort.aspx

Theoretically 2 W9000s should support 12 displays, but until someone can test, it really depends on how it's all implemented.

 

[Umbongo]

hi i am not a pro but i am interested if this new machine is able to handle new 3d games well?

i always wanted a mac pro cause of the possibility to change the gpu if needed.

for sure this is a workstation but in my world if i buy a mac i would also love to play a good game sometimes.

the imac sadly offers no gpu change possibility. so my hope was the new mac pro would fit my needs...

any ideas or infos?

thx

Honestly I'd just forget about it for gaming. In all likely hood you are going to be looking at $5,000+ for moderate gaming performance.

 

[syrinxx]

you are true. sadly i will have to switch ... i never ever wanted this but the imac with no upgrade function is no future option.

my hopes lied in the pro line ... ok we do not know what the base model will bring ... but for me it is unlikely that they will bring this machine with consumer gpus in the "starter" configuration ...

oh my - apple i like this product - i like the way they see the future - but they do not have the right mac in their portfolio for my needs ...

SADLY!!!

 

[Harveyhb]

Displayport runs over thunderbolt, thunderbolt just also carries PCIe at the same time in the same signal.

The W9000 supports 6 displayport 1.2 mst outputs. A single displayport 1.2 mst output can support 4 1920x1080 displays if you have displayport 1.2 capable monitors with dasiychaining support.

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/DrivingMultipleDisplaysFromaSingleDisplayPort.aspx

Theoretically 2 W9000s should support 12 displays, but until someone can test, it really depends on how it's all implemented.

Thanks.

I'm looking at running 5 1920*1080 outputs (projectors), currently using an nvidia k5000 with a dual head to go. So this looks very promising!

 

[deconstruct60]

What does swappable mean? They are so clearly a proprietary form factor, no output ports on the card at all. There is no other (non-apple) card to swap it with.

One of them seems to have the SSD slot on it, meaning that even the two cards are not the same card.

Same infrastructure. If you look at the other card you can see the placeholder where the connector would go. It is the entry level iMac 21.5" motherboard that initially shipped that didn't have the custom SSD connector built in so it couldn't be made fusion. Probably the exact same production line to make then and just skip adding the "$2, or less, in parts" to complete it. There is nothing that stops another BTO configure using two of the boards that are fully complete.


Swappable means can pull out this unit ( e.g., there is a failure) and put in another without to impact the other three segments to the logically complete logicboard. Sort of how the daughtercard assembly of the current Mac Pro is swappable.

You are right in that doesn't necessarily mean there will be an open market of boards you can buy and insert yourself. Primarily it means the system is serviceable without have to chuck everything.

Sounds like Apple speak to me. Translation = " If you have you one that's not working right we'd be happy to "swap it out" for ya!

No it is really more so a counter to the protests that tend to arise when components are soldered onto the logicboard. "If a GPU or VRAM fails you'd have to throw whole logic board to fix it".... No because can remove just that subsection and replace/swap it. It is removable. Hence swappable.

That say nothing about a 3rd party replacement parts market.

 

[theSeb]

I don't see any other options that provide exactly the specs of the new MP.
- 4096 Stream Processors
- 6 GB VRAM
- 384 bit mem bus
- 528 GB/s total bandwidth

It matches EXACTLY.

Yes, except that in the keynote it was clearly stated, "you can configure UP TO 4096 stream processors". The base configuration will not have a W9000.

 

[garnerx]

My tractor does ok with one fan. There is nothing in the laws of thermodynamics that says this won't be enough to cool it down. I am concerned about the noise factor though.

Your tractor probably has a higher melting point than a Mac Pro.

When you see the measures people take to cool dual-GPU PCs, and they're never crammed into such a tight space as that Mac Pro, I'm amazed Apple can pack it all into a box of that size.

Maybe the reason they say it's a desktop computer is because if you put it down by your feet it would burn the skin off your legs.

Beautiful thing, though. Wish I could afford one.

 

[deconstruct60]

It's like you said a few days ago, there's no reason for Apple to base the design on the iPad. In terms of storage provisioning, it seems like they did that. It basically becomes a required part of the purchase. Given that you need a backup, that is a minimum of two extra boxes.

It is not really the iPad. The storage here is removable. On the iPad it is definitely not. Likewise the RAM. Conceptually, it should be possible for a BTO config to have two Graphics card that each have a PCI-e card. ( upside/downside in that somewhat implies the sharing some PCI lanes with something else either GPU or TB controller. ). I would not be shocked if in the BTO would be configs with two drives.

For those who have money to burn it would possible in that case to have 2TB of internal storage. It is Apple's pricing on 1TB SSD that is primary inhibitor, not capability. I don't think the "There is only 2TB of workspace space there, I can't get any work done on my current project" class of folks is the bulk of the current Mac Pro market.

What is clearly missing though is any commitment to SATA (and 2.5" or 3.5" .... and of course the much older 5.25" form factors). SSDs really don't need any one of those container boxes. Those are really legacy sized boxes so that fit in legacy box-sized sleds/slots in older machines.

I would say that is a given. Look at the currently available line. It starts at $2500. ....Apple is indicating with some amount of subtlety that this is a financial black hole.

If starting at roughly the same starting price point, then the black hole part isn't really new. It is just an equipment color change.

I think it will be a little lower. Like the difference between a basic JBOD TB device with all the bays open (e.g. $300-400 ). At which point about roughly in the same place.

 

[deconstruct60]

Yes, except that in the keynote it was clearly stated, "you can configure UP TO 4096 stream processors". The base configuration will not have a W9000.

Yeah the "sneak peek" seemed to primarily be of the biggest monster BTO configuration they will ship. That is actually probably not what they expect to sell in any numbers that would support the product over the long term.

A sneak peek isn't going into exhaustive detail about the whole BTO range.


It is however informative to the limited number of folks that are "above the line" that the is represented that they either need to buy a current Mac and "bulk up" or find other options ( it is the end of the road on Apple sanctioned OS X. )

 

[thekev]

What is clearly missing though is any commitment to SATA (and 2.5" or 3.5" .... and of course the much older 5.25" form factors). SSDs really don't need any one of those container boxes. Those are really legacy sized boxes so that fit in legacy box-sized sleds/slots in older machines.

The 2.5" and 3.5" ones can provide more cost effective storage. Without them assuming a flat price change, it cost more to get something fully configured due to the need to account for primary external storage. Otherwise even reserving one for a boot drive, you could get 9TB internally. Had they added more bays to fill out all SATA connections, it would have satisfied even more users. The reason things are outside the box with a notebook is due to spatial constraints. It's now apparently innovative to leverage the problem into other form factors and offer additional peripherals as the solution. I suspect a good portion of mac pro users dealt with de-centralized storage unless Apple expect it to be sold primarily into multi-user environments.

If starting at roughly the same starting price point, then the black hole part isn't really new. It is just an equipment color change.

I think it will be a little lower. Like the difference between a basic JBOD TB device with all the bays open (e.g. $300-400 ). At which point about roughly in the same place.

The only difference now will be impending design litigation from Dyson. I'm too lazy to do it right now, but later I will photoshop a new mac pro onto that thing.

 

[Tutor]

The 2.5" and 3.5" ones can provide more cost effective storage. Without them assuming a flat price change, it cost more to get something fully configured due to the need to account for primary external storage. Otherwise even reserving one for a boot drive, you could get 9TB internally. Had they added more bays to fill out all SATA connections, it would have satisfied even more users. The reason things are outside the box with a notebook is due to spatial constraints. It's now apparently innovative to leverage the problem into other form factors and offer additional peripherals as the solution. I suspect a good portion of mac pro users dealt with de-centralized storage unless Apple expect it to be sold primarily into multi-user environments.



The only difference now will be impending design litigation from Dyson. I'm too lazy to do it right now, but later I will photoshop a new mac pro onto that thing.

thekev,

That vacuum will suck everything out of the pockets including the little balls of lint. That analogy speaks volumes.

 

[MacVidCards]

10.9 thinks a 7970 is a Firepro...so I guess the drivers are done.

Also on good news front, the Titan now has OpenCl in 10.9

 

[deconstruct60]

Thanks.

So the thunderbolt outputs will be used as video out?

An extremely high chance that video comes out the HDMI port too.
In fact, that is probably where one of the 4K output streams go.

not a direct out form the GPU?

The HMDI phsyical port isn't on the same "card' as the GPU, but the output is coming straight from that actual GPU itself ( plus any neccesary conversions specific for HDMI format required if the physical port was on the same "card".).

 

[Tysusmed]

The biggest issue I see is that we're back to waiting for apple to give us the upgrade graphic packages in order to get a new card, I was getting used to popping any PC card in.

No kidding...I don't understand why Apple is going this route.

It would be really great if I had the choice of what video card from what manufacturer I choose to place in my Mac Pro. I have no need to render 4K files in realtime - I'm not an editor - no need to spend the money on a card I won't use to it's full potential.

What's more, my current Geforce 670 works great for 3D and very rarely gets bogged down - plus my applications love CUDA.

I'm really hoping, at the very least, we have several GPU options, but if past experience indicates anything, this is wishful thinking.

 

[multipasser]

I'm so dissapointed in apple.
Why choose AMD's gpu's? Every pro graphic user uses adobe software which works with Nvidia gpu's. No possibilities for swapping unless you buy a very expensive TB pci case and another expensive cuda card.

This is no pro computer, this is prosumer.

 

[Umbongo]

An extremely high chance that video comes out the HDMI port too.
In fact, that is probably where one of the 4K output streams go.



The HMDI phsyical port isn't on the same "card' as the GPU, but the output is coming straight from that actual GPU itself ( plus any neccesary conversions specific for HDMI format required if the physical port was on the same "card".).

Hopefully not as HDMI 1.4 is limited to 30Hz at 4K and two FirePros are capable of powering three 4K displays with eyefinity.

 

[handsome pete]

I'm so dissapointed in apple.
Why choose AMD's gpu's? Every pro graphic user uses adobe software which works with Nvidia gpu's. No possibilities for swapping unless you buy a very expensive TB pci case and another expensive cuda card.

This is no pro computer, this is prosumer.

It really depends on the software. I bet Maya artists are quite happy.

 

[SvenSvenson]

As far as I know, most software does not know how to take advantage of more than one GPU.

With dual GPUs installed as default, does this imply that Crossfire will be part of 10.9, or simply that one GPU will be wasted for the vast majority of applications?

I don't think this is to support Crossfure/SLI type gaming setups, but rather using the 2 GPUs for taking compute-intensive work from the CPU, using Core-something or other in OS X.

 

[blanka]

The new PS4 is about as fast as one FirePro in the MacPro (20% slower). CPU-wise it will be comparable to a 2.3 Ghz quad Mini.
I think that is about I want from a Pro machine. I could equip the whole office with pro machines for the price of one MacPro.
Good luck to the tweakers that will boot OSX on the PS4! Beat the real Mac Pro!

 

[rGiskard]

No way are those GPU cards upgradable. Look at the design, swapping one out means total disassembly so that the new card can be mounted to the heatsink with thermal paste. Even an Apple Store might not be able to do it.

 

[wallysb01]

I think it will be a little lower. Like the difference between a basic JBOD TB device with all the bays open (e.g. $300-400 ). At which point about roughly in the same place.

I hope that's true, and if it is, I think this thing can sell. Unfortunately this is Apple we're talking about.

 

[Zwhaler]

my guess is the 12 core will come in around $3800

Last gen 12 core started at 5K... and that was with a single 5770 and like 6 gigs of RAM.

 

[deconstruct60]

my guess is the 12 core will come in around $3800

The E5 2600 v2 12 core by itself will probably cost around $1,700-2,000. And that is before Apple's minimal 30% mark-up. Let alone the two GPUs.

If Apple does the usual there will be "good" "better" "Best". Or maybe just "good" "Better" (with "best being a BTO variant on "better"'s baseine configuration). I doubt going to be able to strip everything down to minimum ( min RAM, min SSD , min GPU pair) to grab just the 12 core option ( which is likely only a BTO option. not a standard config). Getting the system costs skewed so that ~50% of what you are buying is just the CPU likely is a no go.

If you are price intensive enough to buy a $2K CPU you can probably afford a bigger SSD and better GPU if try a little harder.