Flash on the iPhone, Adobe responds.

[kdarling]

A couple of observations...

1) If the iPhone were to get Flash, I believe it might be a stunted version, perhaps blocking full screen apps. Depends on whether Jobs thinks that it's a "web app" or not

2) There's a difference in how Safari handles video objects, and Flash might have similar handling:

On other phones, Flash videos and objects run in place on the page, scaled down to fit the size you're viewing at. Zoom in, and the Flash scales up, all the way to full screen if you wish it.

On the iPhone, videos are static snapshots, which only and always run in full screen mode when selected. But (see #1 above) about objects. Not sure how Apple would handle Flash.

 

[Hutch1]

This whole Flash argument reminds me of the argument over MMS...

-One group says they want it, get mad at Apple, etc
-One group insists they don't care.
-One group insists Flash SHOULDN'T be on the phone, Apple is 100% right, we don't need it, its crap, etc.

Then one day its finally available...

-All 3 groups celebrate its arrival.

If Apple wants to have the full PC experience on their phone, which they obviously have stated they do, then they need Flash to work on the phone. Whether Adobe can't get it to work well or Apple is being picky is all speculation.

I still think MMS sucks and have not celebrated its arrival even though we got it here in Canada before AT&T

Yes Flash is the new MMS, it sucks, unless they make major changes it should die a quick death, but it won't and it will most likely end up on the the iPhone to appease the whiners.

 

[lllll]

As you can see from the picture it seems pretty clear that the holdup is at Apple, and not Adobe. Is this another Apple planned holdup until they can achieve the implementation they desire, or can we expect to never see Flash on the iPhone? I guess only time will tell.

Gotta love the image and Adobe's subliminal message.

Apple probably want people to learn how to make apps the hard way, Coding!
With Flash, it makes apps a lot easier. Less Coding. less coding = less use of Cocoa and Apple programming language = more redundant apps appear in the apps store = cluster = more complaints = give apple headache.

 

[ViViDboarder]

Gotta love the image and Adobe's subliminal message.

Apple probably want people to learn how to make apps the hard way, Coding!
With Flash, it makes apps a lot easier. Less Coding. less coding = less use of Cocoa and Apple programming language = more redundant apps appear in the apps store = cluster = more complaints = give apple headache.

No because Flash apps wouldn't be in the app store... They'd be outside of it. It's about money because if it's outside the app store they can't get their cut.

 

[megadon]

It's just a marketing gimic apple uses.
Apple holds off crucial features to force people to buy the next version.
Does anyone actually think a 180 billion dollar company can't make flash work on it's iPhone?

 

[cababah]

It's just a marketing gimic apple uses.
Apple holds off crucial features to force people to buy the next version.
Does anyone actually think a 180 billion dollar company can't make flash work on it's iPhone?

Of course it can be done, but can it be done efficiently and implimented well? I am all for the fact that like 3G, flash support should be something that the user can enable and disable and his/her will. At least make it an option.

 

[megadon]

Of course it can be done, but can it be done efficiently and implimented well? I am all for the fact that like 3G, flash support should be something that the user can enable and disable and his/her will. At least make it an option.

Agree 100% on the option part. But IMO, apple could very easily make flash run properly to the point of exceeding all expectations.
However, not only does apple hold off key features intentionally, but they want all of your money.
So f you play flash based games, less money goes to app store. That is reason enough to hold off on flash.

 

[nehunte]

If AT&T held back the implementation of MMS on the iPhones because of the drag it would create on their networks, wouldn't they do the same with Flash on the iPhone as well?

Think about it, most people want Flash on their iPhone not because they want to see a bunch of stupid little animations on webpages. They want to watch and stream videos on their iPhone from their favorite sites such as Hulu.

I have no proof of this, but do you think AT&T has any say in this matter and maybe guiding Apple on their decision making?

I've had/used some of these phones that everybody is talking about that has flash built-in. It's total bull. Those phones couldn't load any of the flash sites properly. You'd try playing a video and either the phone would lock up or the browser would shut down. It was a joke. I'm sure some of those phones do actually work as I've not used them all, but I don't think the list tells the whole truth of the matter.

 

[bstpierre]

Yah, but I for one prefer to keep my iPhone au' natural.

au' natural for iPhone means no Flash.

 

[nehunte]

Here is more food for thought on my question on whether AT&T has some control with Apple on this Flash decision...

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/10/iphone-flash/

With Flash only being implemented in apps, then people can watch Hulu and other favorite video content.....while connected wifi. The iPhone can control apps and only allow flash (that particular app) to run while the phone is connected wifi vs. connected cellular data. Smells a lot like the SlingPlayer fiasco to me. Then again, I would rather have flash with stipulations rather than no flash at all.

I dunno, once again, I have no proof of this. It's just a thought of mine. I don't think I'm totally out of the ballpark on this one.

 

[kousuke18]

Until flash is optimized for mobile devices, i'd rather they not be implemented into mobile phones unless they can be turned off by the user. The HTC hero is a prime example of how flash is not ready for mobile devices as it seems like flash actually increases browser load times, and flash games are barely playable. Next generation mobile devices will probably handle flash much better.

 

[Tres]

I have never once missed having flash on my iPhone and I use it quite heavily for browsing and stuff.

If there was no Youtube app it'd be a different story though

The only good use of flash I've seen is as a video player, and since the iPhone has a hardware decoder for mp4 I'd rather just stream mp4's instead. Flash for interface elements in websites is the worst thing since the atomic bomb (no exaggeration there).

 

[synagence]

Apple allowing Adobe Flash to be plugged into the browser would also mean that if Apple wanted to make a significant change to the browser they'd be reliant on Adobe to reimplement the changes .... if they didn't do that in-time they'd have to turn off flash again...

Allowing something to hook deep into the browser on the iPhone has also the potential to make safari less stable again and flash on a large PC/Mac is bad enough ...

I think Apple are right to go with HTML5 etc and let flash languish... its a closed standard, not freely implementable by dev's and would be a back-door into allowing ANY app people wanted to publish onto the iPhone .... Apple won't ever allow it

 

[ViViDboarder]

Apple allowing Adobe Flash to be plugged into the browser would also mean that if Apple wanted to make a significant change to the browser they'd be reliant on Adobe to reimplement the changes .... if they didn't do that in-time they'd have to turn off flash again...

Allowing something to hook deep into the browser on the iPhone has also the potential to make safari less stable again and flash on a large PC/Mac is bad enough ...

I think Apple are right to go with HTML5 etc and let flash languish... its a closed standard, not freely implementable by dev's and would be a back-door into allowing ANY app people wanted to publish onto the iPhone .... Apple won't ever allow it

Do you know how plugins work? It has nothing to do with having to wait for Adobe before they release updates. They should just add support for flash video. This would solve the issues of developers bypassing the App Store. Which is what I think is really holding it back.

 

[The Phazer]

Think about it, most people want Flash on their iPhone not because they want to see a bunch of stupid little animations on webpages. They want to watch and stream videos on their iPhone from their favorite sites such as Hulu.

As I've already said in this thread, Hulu don't have the rights to offer content to mobiles.

If Flash comes out for the iPhone, Hulu will still be blocked.

Phazer

 

[ViViDboarder]

As I've already said in this thread, Hulu don't have the rights to offer content to mobiles.

If Flash comes out for the iPhone, Hulu will still be blocked.

Phazer

Regardless... That's what people want flash for.

Also, that may be changing. Hulu looks like it's going to Pay For Service mid 2010 anyways. With that extra money they may get better licensing.

 

[The Phazer]

Regardless... That's what people want flash for.

Also, that may be changing. Hulu looks like it's going to Pay For Service mid 2010 anyways. With that extra money they may get better licensing.

I don't think it is. There's a lot more embedded video players in all sorts of news sites for example that use Flash that doesn't work on the iPhone. That accounts for much more of what people are missing that Hulu, given it doesn't exist outside the US.

And no, if Hulu goes to paid for it's revenues will probably fall in the shorter term, and such licences will be dispropotionately expensive.

Phazer

 

[BergerFan]

Can someone please show me an instance of Flash video running slick & flawlessly on a phone?
Seeing Adobe's own demo, on the HTC Hero, notice how the stuttery trailer video was shown for only 3 seconds, LOL.
I think Jobs will wait until it's a liquid smooth experience, before even thinking of putting Flash video on the iPhone.

 

[ViViDboarder]

I don't think it is. There's a lot more embedded video players in all sorts of news sites for example that use Flash that doesn't work on the iPhone. That accounts for much more of what people are missing that Hulu, given it doesn't exist outside the US.

And no, if Hulu goes to paid for it's revenues will probably fall in the shorter term, and such licences will be dispropotionately expensive.

Phazer

I didn't mean to say it was the only reason or a main reason. Just that it is people's thought that they would like to watch flash videos, like hulu, on their iPhones. Regardless of licensing reasons why this is not likely.

 

[BergerFan]

I didn't mean to say it was the only reason or a main reason. Just that it is people's thought that they would like to watch flash videos, like hulu, on their iPhones. Regardless of licensing reasons why this is not likely.

If Apple geve those people flash video in it's current state, they would watch it initially, for sure. but I'm certain that they'd almost immediately drop it like a hot potato, once they got a taste of a poor user experience with it.
I guess that HTC enabled Flash, purely so they could say: "Look! We have Flash on our device!!", without giving a single thought to the experience.

 

[kate-willbury]

As I've already said in this thread, Hulu don't have the rights to offer content to mobiles.

If Flash comes out for the iPhone, Hulu will still be blocked.

Phazer

wtf are you talking about. why would it matter whether you're on a mobile or not??? hulus availability is dependent on your location, not your device. duh.

my friend can watch hulu on their windows mobile phone just fine.

 

[Gokhan]

come on are the apple lovers or d*** s****** that blind ?

Of course apple is not releasing or trying to give flash to iphone users that would be business suicide as people could circumvent the app store and its converted flash apps and games via FREE online services that use flash

Its purely an economic decision not a technical one , even old windows mobile phones run flash fine so all this BULL people chat about jittery video etc is not true

Thats the thing with Apple they always find ways to grab you by the ***** , great at times but not nice at others

 

[Kadman]

Can someone please show me an instance of Flash video running slick & flawlessly on a phone?
Seeing Adobe's own demo, on the HTC Hero, notice how the stuttery trailer video was shown for only 3 seconds, LOL.
I think Jobs will wait until it's a liquid smooth experience, before even thinking of putting Flash video on the iPhone.

Um, the entire video is a bit jumpy, including the guys movements while speaking. You think Flash issues are responsible for that also? Wow, just amazing how slow some people are...

 

[ViViDboarder]

Um, the entire video is a bit jumpy, including the guys movements while speaking. You think Flash issues are responsible for that also? Wow, just amazing how slow some people are...

Umm... Yes. Except not flash on the phone but flash encoding. The video is in flash.

Ohkay, could be poorly encoded before converted to flash video.

 

[itommyboy]

Adobe has been on board and wanting Flash working on the iPhone since inception. Can Adobe and Apple make Flash work on the iPhone and work well? Easily. Will they any time soon? Doubtful.

It's really nothing more than big rich boys with their big rich toys & not all wanting to play together. At the end of the day Cupertino won't let Adobe in their sandbox because they won't agree to the mothershp's proprietary agreements. That being said the screen Adobe now flashes stating Apple won't allow Flash on the iPhone is pretty spot on.