Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[LiE_]

I can't see Apple 'professional' machines moving to ARM anytime soon.

I'll sleep on it but I'm leaning towards keeping my PC as workstation and forgoing the gaming side of it. I'll likely be able to get a new laptop from work in the next year anyway.

 

[LeeW]

I can't see Apple 'professional' machines moving to ARM anytime soon.

Either way, it is the direction and Apple will move to ARM on everything as fast as they can. If developers really get on board which I believe they will due to the iOS, iPadOS and macOS opportunities it brings then it won't be long, 3 years max and all you will be buying is Apple Ax whatever devices across the board.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Like many here, I have lived in a mixed OS environment for decades: Windows at work, Mac at home.

Last year, I added a cheap $170 Wintel PC (Mac mini form factor) at home to function primarily as an old school home theater PC but also to host legacy applications that are endangered on the Mac in the post-Mojave 64-bit only world. While Kodi functioned on the Wintel cheapo, the fan kicked in rather frequently. About a month ago, I got a $99 Raspberry Pi 4 starter kit and am now running Kodi silently in a LibreELEC instance. The Wintel cheapo still is useful in running my brokerage's trading tool (it's a Windows executable) on my living room's big screen TV.

My regular desktop is a Mac mini 2018. I am interested in dabbling with Davinci Resolve so I acquired a Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box 550 and a Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB graphics card, an approved combination in an official Apple support document. It works pretty well in the limited time I've had to play with it. The eGPU combo also works with my MacBook Air 2019 but I never use it with the notebook since it doesn't give me anything that my Mac mini 2018 won't offer.

However, I had been eyeing Windows PCs with Thunderbolt 3 for a while (including Intel NUCs which don't appear to be a good value) and saw that reasonably priced TB3-equipped notebooks with 10th generation Intel CPUs started showing up in the market.

I ordered this Acer Swift 3 (model SF314-57-59EY), 10th-gen Core i5, 14" HD screen:

Acer Laptops, Desktops, Chromebooks, Monitors & Projectors | Acer United States

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which retails for US$680 (sales tax not included) and mentioned TB3 in the specs. I was skeptical at best (comments by Amazon customers ignored TB3) but figured that if TB3 did not live up, I could return the unit. Acer also sells Swift 3 models with AMD Ryzen CPUs but I wanted the Thunderbolt 3 functionality.

This Acer Swift 3 is comparable to the MacBook Air 2020 (I have the 2019 model). It's slightly lighter, a little wider (maybe a quarter of an inch) than the Air. The MBA has a better screen: 220 ppi Retina Display (effective 1280x800) vs. 170 ppi HD screen (actual 1920x1080) on the Acer. I really don't care much for the Swift's keyboard; the Swift's trackpad is absolute garbage. The Acer's fingerprint biometric login device is less accurate than Apple's Touch ID.

Both have Intel's wimpy integrated graphics and claim the same general battery performance (10-11 hours). The Acer Swift's fan is quieter than the Air 2019's. The Acer is slightly thicker than the Air, but it also accommodates one USB 3.1 A port, one USB 2.0 A port and an HDMI connector built-in so less money spent on dongles.

After the usual dreary Windows system administration (a bunch of OS patches and device driver updates plus the usual bloatware removal) I ended up with an up-to-date Windows 10 version 1903 installation which various sites and articles claimed was the first Windows 10 version to provide ample TB3/eGPU support. I plugged in the eGPU and in a few seconds the Acer Swift mirrored the screen on the 27" LG 4K monitor plugged into the eGPU via DisplayPort. I found the Intel Thunderbolt app in the Windows Store then proceeded to mount the ATI Radeon software installation CD that was included with the card. To my delight, the CD software recognized the RX 580 GPU and proceeded to install the ATI Radeon Adrenalin 2019 driver & utility software.

From there, I subsequently upgraded Windows 10 to version 1909 and installed the latest and greatest ATI Radeon Adrenalin 2020 software. While I'm not a gamer, I downloaded a couple of freebies from Epic (Fortnite) and Blizzard/Battle.net (Heroes of the Storm) and fired them up. The Acer Swift 3 + Thunderbolt 3 eGPU combo appears to be legit for a casual/infrequent gamer like me.

I do like flight simulators and perhaps I'll find a way to commit a bunch of FAA violations like skimming Manhattan's Fifth Avenue 100 ft. above street level, flying under the Golden Gate Bridge, dive bombing football stadiums (empty of course) or screwing around in the Grand Canyon. I figure a high-end gaming rig isn't necessary to do that.

A fancy Razer gaming notebook PC will presumably beat up my Acer Swift quite handily but for someone who might be in the same situation this Swift 3 provides Wintel mobile productivity on the road with decent battery performance while being able to take advantage of an eGPU's graphics muscle at home.

Cost comparison? My MacBook Air 2019 (upgraded 8th-gen i5, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD) was $1650 (incl. tax) when I bought it about a year ago. The Acer Swift 3 (10th-gen i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, Windows 10 Home) was about $745 (incl. tax) and the eGPU (Sonnet box + Sapphire card) was another $465 (incl. tax), total $1210. So for $440 less, I have a Wintel notebook setup that blows doors on the MacBook Air in 3D graphics performance. Plus I can share that eGPU with the Mac mini 2018.

I could shove in an even better card like the Sapphire NITRO+ RX 5700 XT 8GB and still have a hundred bucks in savings. I am actually debating whether or not to do just that: send the Pulse RX 580 and upgrade within the return window.

In a couple of weeks if all is fine, I may ditch my MacBook Air as well as Windows virtual machines on both my Air and Mac mini to reduce total system administration load. Excluding my cheapo Wintel box, rather than running five OS environments (3 Win10 + 2 macOS) on three machines (1 Wintel + 2 Macs), I can just run one W10 + one macOS each on respective machines.

Total Cost of Ownership? Here is where the bargain value of Windows hardware starts to erode. Based on 18+ years of Mac notebook ownership, I would expect the MacBook Air to provide 5 years of service (based on my usage case). The $1650 sticker price works out to $0.90/day. I would expect about 3 years of service from my cheapo Acer Swift 3 ($745), about $0.68/day.

Software value? Macs include the free iWorks suite (Pages, Numbers, Keynote) as well as the free iLife suite (iTunes/Apple Music, Photos, iMovie, GarageBand). Some of these have direct freeware Windows equivalents, some do not.

The main caveat is that I would be stuck running Windows 10 on the road. That's okay for me, I don't use notebook computers that much anyhow. Most of what I need to get done on the road can be done with my iPhone and/or moldy old iPad mini. I've installed iCloud for Windows on the Acer Swift for file sharing/web browser bookmarks with my Mac mini. Thunderbird is my e-mail client of choice on the Windows notebook. It isn't pretty but it works. Of course, having a Wintel PC opens up a much larger universe of applications, games, etc.

In the end, much of this comes down to each person's specific usage case. The things I need to do when I'm on the road are a minor subset of what I do at home. There isn't really much on the road that requires macOS-specific applications for me. I can even stream my personal music library (mostly ripped classical CDs) on iTunes since I have iTunes Match.

Anyhow, food for thought for those who can live with modest Wintel performance on the road (3D gameplay will be crippled on Intel Integrated Graphics) but who seek more robust 3D capabilities at home and wish to share enhanced performance with Macs.

 

[LiE_]

I can't see Apple 'professional' machines moving to ARM anytime soon.

I'll sleep on it but I'm leaning towards keeping my PC as workstation and forgoing the gaming side of it. I'll likely be able to get a new laptop from work in the next year anyway.

OK after sleeping on it I have some clarity. I'm going to keep my PC, I'm not interested in going back to macOS, Windows for me is better.

I just need to decide on the right GPU/monitor balance between gaming and office work. For office work a 4K monitor is better for text and lightroom. For gaming a 1440p 144hz monitor is better. A 144hz 4k monitor isn't really an option because driving those frame rates at that res will be hard.

With the 5700 XT I can play most games at 4k 60fps with some graphic settings tweaked. This to me looks like a good balance as I get 4k for office/lightroom and can still play the odd game at 60fps if I keep the 5700 XT.

 

[LiE_]

So I've put an order in for an LG 34GK850F. I was eyeing this up as a potential purchase but previously it was only discounted to £900 which was too close to the refreshed 34GN850 (£980). At £800 I bit the bullet, hoping it will serve me well.

LG 34GK950F 34" 3440x1440 NANO IPS FreeSync 2 HDR 144Hz 1ms Curved Widescreen LED Monitor

34GK950F, LED Backlit, 3440x1440 Resolution, 5000000:1 Contrast Ratio, 400cd/m² Brightness, 1ms Response Time, 1x DisplayPort Input, 2x HDMI, HDR, FREESYNC 2, 2 Years Warranty

www.overclockers.co.uk

It doesn't give me the high PPI of a 27" 4K but it does give me more screen space and from reviews the text clarity is good. For games it will be excellent of course.

 

[LiE_]

I re-read this thread this morning, it was very useful for me because it acts like a journal in many ways. It reminds me of the journey and thought process, stopping me from second guessing myself. I made the mistake of watching WWDC and it made me miss Apple. The real spanner in the works is that I may be doing a little more on-site work and travel for work next year and I think I'd prefer an Apple laptop. I'm also having some issues with my Pixel 4 making me look at the SE2.

I could raise a return with Amazon for - Monitor, M.2, memory, fans, GPU and CPU cooler which makes 'getting rid' of the PC a lot easier. Amazon's returns are insanely good. That would leave PSU, motherboard and case to sell.

Here is the current setup. Settled on the Dell U2720Q 4K monitor, it's very nice but still suffers a little from the uneven colour uniformity. It's driving me mad because I've never noticed this issue in my previous monitors.

 

[LeeW]

I re-read this thread this morning

You are constantly chasing unicorns and rainbows then always contrite about your decisions. You really want macOS, but you want the flexibility to control the hardware choices and that is never going to happen.

Uneven colour uniformity driving you mad, issues with the Pixel 4 often posting images of a contrived setup, amongst other things. It's not healthy.

Sorry if it sounds harsh but you need to deal with these issues before it affects your mental health, maybe it already is. It seems to go beyond simple 'flip flopping'.

 

[c0ppo]

For the past year+ I've always missed MBP. Well, MacOS to be honest. Then I got MBP16 for a few weeks from my company. After a week or so, I always went back to my X1E.

Now you have to decide what you want. And stop thinking about it afterwards. Or simply of you can afford it, purchase apple and PC. Use both.

LeeW is right. You're gonna go insane if you continue like this

 

[pshufd]

For the past year+ I've always missed MBP. Well, MacOS to be honest. Then I got MBP16 for a few weeks from my company. After a week or so, I always went back to my X1E.

Now you have to decide what you want. And stop thinking about it afterwards. Or simply of you can afford it, purchase apple and PC. Use both.

LeeW is right. You're gonna go insane if you continue like this

I strongly agree. I would prefer macOS as I use it for work.

But Apple's design decisions have pushed me away; at least for now.

• Building systems with thermal compromises
• Building systems that you can't replace parts yourself on
• An operating system that requires more and more resources every version as opposed to Windows which runs fine on very old hardware
• Lack of a Mac Mini in a mid-tower that's expandible

My ideal solution would be to get a Mac Pro for my personal stuff. I just have a really hard time justifying such a purchase.

I think about how nice a desktop I could build for $1,000 running Windows and I can't come close to that in terms of cost, thermals, and maintainability in the Mac ecosystem.

I used to drive German cars. Then I got tired of frequent maintenance and repairs and expensive frequent maintenance. And I got a Toyota and proceeded to put 250K miles on one - I was stunned at how little it cost to keep it running and how nothing seemed to break. The driving experience far exceeded with Audis and BMWs but they were such a pain in other ways.

It's not that one is necessarily better than the other - they have different design parameters.

 

[LiE_]

You are constantly chasing unicorns and rainbows then always contrite about your decisions. You really want macOS, but you want the flexibility to control the hardware choices and that is never going to happen.

Uneven colour uniformity driving you mad, issues with the Pixel 4 often posting images of a contrived setup, amongst other things. It's not healthy.

Sorry if it sounds harsh but you need to deal with these issues before it affects your mental health, maybe it already is. It seems to go beyond simple 'flip flopping'.

I do recognise I have some commitment issues when it comes to either side. I'm also quite picky when it comes to expensive hardware I spend 40+ hours per week using. A little issue is easy to ignore when you use something infrequently.

I like my desk and setup a certain way, I also like photography, so photos may look contrived but it's just how it is.

When I sold my watercooled PC I had in my mind a more minimalist approach to my hardware. I think I missed the mark with building yet another PC. Added to the fact I'm transitioning roles it puts me in a position where what I currently have may not be what I need.

Also, every time I change something, imagine how much eye rolling I get from my wife

 

[maflynn]

For the past year+ I've always missed MBP. Well, MacOS to be honest. Then I got MBP16 for a few weeks from my company. After a week or so, I always went back to my X1E.

For me, its been less about missing the hardware but some the OS has drawn me, particularly with what I saw with macOS 11. As a side note, I will say that I absolutely hate the naming convention that apple has embraced - Big Sur? Hate it.

Anyways with the move to ARM, and seeing what macOS 11 brings to the table, I can see myself buying a laptop if the price is right. One of my daughters has been using my 2012 rMBP and its really showing its age as of late. If Apple rolls out a new MacBook Pro his year and its not horrendously expensive, I can see myself buying one. Conditions outside of my control will dictate that decision, as well, i.e., economy, jobs, and whatnot thanks to the coronavirus.

I have zero regrets on buying my Razer, and for my needs a windows machine makes a helluva sense, so if I do get another mac, its not going to be my main machine but mostly for my family, that I can play with.

 

[kazmac]

For me, it was very hard to give up the OS that I learned be so creative on, but Apple's awful build quality, price gouging and increasingly locked down OS is pushing me toward the alternative.

I know Windows has problems (and ditto OEM hardware), but I'd like to get back to creating more my way than being forced into doing it Apple's way (which doesn't serve me well at all).

I am over my fears of making the switch.

@LiE_ I can relate to not having what you need and being stuck in that loop. You'll find a set up that works for you.

 

[pshufd]

For me, it was very hard to give up the OS that I learned be so creative on, but Apple's awful build quality, price gouging and increasingly locked down OS is pushing me toward the alternative.

I know Windows has problems (and ditto OEM hardware), but I'd like to get back to creating more my way than being forced into doing it Apple's way (which doesn't serve me well at all).

I am over my fears of making the switch.

@LiE_ I can relate to not having what you need and being stuck in that loop. You'll find a set up that works for you.

I'd suggest building your own system if you have the ability or a friend that can help you out with it. It's a great experience and gives you a lot of freedom in knowing that you can fix a problem by just changing parts when you need to or when you want to. It also gives you the ability to buy a prebuilt system and the modify it to your liking. You can put in quality parts or parts that you specifically need for your workload.

 

[kazmac]

I'd suggest building your own system if you have the ability or a friend that can help you out with it. It's a great experience and gives you a lot of freedom in knowing that you can fix a problem by just changing parts when you need to or when you want to. It also gives you the ability to buy a prebuilt system and the modify it to your liking. You can put in quality parts or parts that you specifically need for your workload.

Thank you. Current situation does not permit for that. I know it’s an economical and smart route, I do need the portability.

I am confident I will have the right system soon.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I have the same problem. I've gone back and forth between my 2017 MBP 13' TB and my desktop that I built earlier in this thread as a primary computer at least 3 times - I keep going back and forth. One, I want to game, the other, I want simplicity, one small package that can be mobile, and no need to have to always be changing my monitor from desktop to laptop.

In the end, I've kept both because I use both. I use my desktop for work and gaming. I use my laptop for reading, personal computing, and communication with family. I cannot seem to get rid of either so for the time being I'm keeping both. My ISP is probably wondering why every few months I'm uploading/downloading 30GB from OneDrive to iCloud and ... back.

I'm getting to the age where gaming is not something I do very often - I'd much rather spend time with my wife, read a book, go walking but I can't seem to give it up completely. (Playing 1-2 nights a week for a few hours).

What's keeping me stuck with both desktop and MBP is the virus situation. Being at home makes using a desktop super easy. The moment they require us to head back to the office, my desktop is going to be a whole lot less useful.

 

[pshufd]

I have the same problem. I've gone back and forth between my 2017 MBP 13' TB and my desktop that I built earlier in this thread as a primary computer at least 3 times - I keep going back and forth. One, I want to game, the other, I want simplicity, one small package that can be mobile, and no need to have to always be changing my monitor from desktop to laptop.

In the end, I've kept both because I use both. I use my desktop for work and gaming. I use my laptop for reading, personal computing, and communication with family. I cannot seem to get rid of either so for the time being I'm keeping both. My ISP is probably wondering why every few months I'm uploading/downloading 30GB from OneDrive to iCloud and ... back.

I'm getting to the age where gaming is not something I do very often - I'd much rather spend time with my wife, read a book, go walking but I can't seem to give it up completely. (Playing 1-2 nights a week for a few hours).

What's keeping me stuck with both desktop and MBP is the virus situation. Being at home makes using a desktop super easy. The moment they require us to head back to the office, my desktop is going to be a whole lot less useful.

Same with me on the desktop. It's nice to have at home - I bring my laptops with me back and forth when I go to the office.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Same with me on the desktop. It's nice to have at home - I bring my laptops with me back and forth when I go to the office.

I have 2 work laptops and a personal laptop (MBP). So I'm definitely considering just keeping it this way as well - just having my desktop be my "computer" at home, and my MBP laptop be a "computer" I can use when I'm on the couch, on the balcony, etc.

Still feel like I should sell either the desktop or the MBP and just have one. lol.

 

[pshufd]

I have 2 work laptops and a personal laptop (MBP). So I'm definitely considering just keeping it this way as well - just having my desktop be my "computer" at home, and my MBP laptop be a "computer" I can use when I'm on the couch, on the balcony, etc.

Still feel like I should sell either the desktop or the MBP and just have one. lol.

I have two of the desktops. They are identical except that one has 24 GB of RAM and the other has 48 GB and one has a modern video card and the other has an old one. So I could bring one of them into the office. I have considered selling the one with 24 GB as I don't need it other than as a backup. I like to leave a 13 and 15 MBP upstairs to grab when I'm upstairs. I'm almost using MBPs as a phone or iPad.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I have two of the desktops. They are identical except that one has 24 GB of RAM and the other has 48 GB and one has a modern video card and the other has an old one. So I could bring one of them into the office. I have considered selling the one with 24 GB as I don't need it other than as a backup. I like to leave a 13 and 15 MBP upstairs to grab when I'm upstairs. I'm almost using MBPs as a phone or iPad.

This is what I've been doing for the last few months. How interesting. Maybe it is best just to keep things the way they are! Change isn't always better! Thanks for posting your experience.

 

[LiE_]

Here's my current thinking.

I want to move back into the warm embrace of Apple and get a Macbook. With the ARM Macbooks likely due end of the year it makes it feasible. The current crop of Macbooks just seem too thermally screwed to even consider. I'm hoping that ARM Macbooks will fix this.

I have a 7th gen i5 Lenovo Thinkpad 13 from work that I can use in the interim, it won't however cut it for any Lightroom work. So I was thinking of grabbing an iPad Pro 11" to act as my personal computer, which can work as a good companion to a Macbook when I do eventually grab one.

 

[pshufd]

Here's my current thinking.

I want to move back into the warm embrace of Apple and get a Macbook. With the ARM Macbooks likely due end of the year it makes it feasible. The current crop of Macbooks just seem too thermally screwed to even consider. I'm hoping that ARM Macbooks will fix this.

I have a 7th gen i5 Lenovo Thinkpad 13 from work that I can use in the interim, it won't however cut it for any Lightroom work. So I was thinking of grabbing an iPad Pro 11" to act as my personal computer, which can work as a good companion to a Macbook when I do eventually grab one.

And the Mac Mini and the iMac too.

 

[LiE_]

PC is being returned tomorrow to Amazon and those parts I cannot return I will sell.

My personal computer needs are now being served by an iPad Pro 11 and an iPhone SE.

For work I’m happy using my work supplied windows laptop, but I will probably replace it with an ARM MacBook later in the year. Those should be cool and quiet.

Lightroom works really well on iPad Pro. If I get the itch to game I will pick up a next gen console.

Really love this setup. This may be the one.

 

[maflynn]

PC is being returned tomorrow

Wow, you're all over the place. how many computers have you built/bought or sold in this thread alone which is only ? By my estimate 4 or 5?

I mean you no disrespect, but I'm not sure how an iPad will work for your needs when you previously determined that a watercooled PC was needed before (amongst other builds).

Good luck, and hopefully you find the peace and are able to enjoy the fruits of your labor

 

[LiE_]

Wow, you're all over the place. how many computers have you built/bought or sold in this thread alone which is only ? By my estimate 4 or 5?

I mean you no disrespect, but I'm not sure how an iPad will work for your needs when you previously determined that a watercooled PC was needed before (amongst other builds).

Good luck, and hopefully you find the peace and are able to enjoy the fruits of your labor

I was going through a phase of gaming and I’m very particular about noise, also the hype got me with a water cooled build as I’ve not done one before.

When you boil down my usage it’s mostly admin tasks and some Lightroom photo edits. iPad Pro does a great job here while being a stunning piece of hardware and has the simplicity I now crave. For work I have a laptop.

I admit I’ve been thought a lot of hardware but I’m someone who likes to use a thing before deciding. I can’t decide based on reviews alone.

 

[pshufd]

I was going through a phase of gaming and I’m very particular about noise, also the hype got me with a water cooled build as I’ve not done one before.

When you boil down my usage it’s mostly admin tasks and some Lightroom photo edits. iPad Pro does a great job here while being a stunning piece of hardware and has the simplicity I now crave. For work I have a laptop.

I admit I’ve been thought a lot of hardware but I’m someone who likes to use a thing before deciding. I can’t decide based on reviews alone.

I've gone through these phases with computers and now have more than I need though it's nice to have spares. I'm still playing around with old hardware trying to make it relevant in 2020.

Some people do this with cars, and lots of other aspects of life. It can be a challenge to figure out where we want to wind up.

And, of course, the pandemic changes everything.