Fountain pen users, rejoice!

[Scepticalscribe]

@stanza.richi & @GerritV: Agree completely on the importance of using good quality paper when writing with a fountain pen. Try to find a good quality make of paper.

Since the advent, or appearance, or development, or widespread use of, computers, the quality of paper that is readily available had (dramatically) disimproved, - that is, basic, standard paper - not least, I suspect, both because one can compromise on the quality of paper required when using printers, without suffering ill effect, and that this - use of a poorer quality paper - is also cheaper.

@FreakinEurekan: Best of luck with your fountain pen adventures, I rarely write with anything else, and please reprot back and let us know how you got on.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Re paper, some of the Japanese companies make superb (if expensive) paper; Moleskine used to be excellent but (since a takeover some years ago), the quality of their products has markedly disimproved, to my mind.

Personally, I use Leuchtturm1917, a German brand; granted, it is not cheap, but the quality of the paper is excellent.

Also, sometimes, in less developed countries, one can, paradoxically, find stuff such as paper that is still manufactured by older (and, candidly, far better) methods; thus, I have found superb quality paper in the Balkans, (in small, local, stationary shops), and also in some regions, or parts, of the former Soviet Union, central Asia, eastern Africa, and so on.

 

[stanza.richi]

Personally, I use Leuchtturm1917, a German brand; granted, it is not cheap, but the quality of the paper is excellent.

Totally agree with you about Leuchtturm1917: bought this year a weekly agenda that work really well with all my pen!

 

[GerritV]

Re paper, some of the Japanese companies make superb (if expensive) paper; Moleskine used to be excellent but (since a takeover some years ago), the quality of their products has markedly disimproved, to my mind.

Personally, I use Leuchtturm1917, a German brand; granted, it is not cheap, but the quality of the paper is excellent.

Also, sometimes, in less developed countries, one can, paradoxically, find stuff such as paper that is still manufactured by older (and, candidly, far better) methods; thus, I have found superb quality paper in the Balkans, (in small, local, stationary shops), and also in some regions, or parts, of the former Soviet Union, central Asia, eastern Africa, and so on.

Japanese paper: I'm currently using a Midori MD notebook - very fountain pen friendly for sure.
Leuchtturm: couldn't agree more, perhaps the best of the bunch overall.

 

[WriteNow]

I've recently gotten interested in fountain pens again after a number of years "away."

I really never qualified as any sort of expert, but I used them a fair amount when I was younger (mainly a teenager in the 1980s). One of the interesting discoveries was the paper problem. I honestly don't remember any issue whatever years back. Some paper might have worked better--but I don't remember anything being totally, unbelievably awful with fountain pens like some of the paper of today! And I never did anything special--I just use the pen I had, the ink I had for whatever piece of paper I needed or wanted to write on. Last week, I had to reprint one thing that turned into an absolutely ugly mess when I made one small pen and ink correction on it.

I've been doing some reading on-line of the experiences of people with more current experience than I have. While choosing paper carefully is probably the best choice, I have noticed some people who are forced to use problematic paper indicate they have success with finer nibs and careful ink choices.

I'm currently getting by with a cheap spiral notebook I got at the grocery store. It's not fine stationery--but it's worked well for what I need and want at the moment. It's smooth enough, and the writing is clean and readable.

 

[WriteNow]

Also, sometimes, in less developed countries, one can, paradoxically, find stuff such as paper that is still manufactured by older (and, candidly, far better) methods; thus, I have found superb quality paper in the Balkans, (in small, local, stationary shops), and also in some regions, or parts, of the former Soviet Union, central Asia, eastern Africa, and so on.

One thing I keep hearing about (but so far, have no experience with) is paper from Vietnam. One cheap paper suggestion that I keep seeing mentioned, in fact, is Walmart Pen+Gear (I think) notebook made in Vietnam. I'd be curious at some point to try this, although it would mean (shudder!) going to Wal-Mart.

 

[AJK13K]

I have written with fountain pens for many years. I find that Rhodia make great pads in all sizes. I cannot speak to their bound books but there is no bleed through on the pads. The surface of the pads is smooth and works great with a wet pen. Great for a nib and hand that depend on flexible nib and hand pressure.

incidentally read Umberto Ecco on the value of cursive writing and brain development.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

One thing I keep hearing about (but so far, have no experience with) is paper from Vietnam. One cheap paper suggestion that I keep seeing mentioned, in fact, is Walmart Pen+Gear (I think) notebook made in Vietnam. I'd be curious at some point to try this, although it would mean (shudder!) going to Wal-Mart.

This sounds fascinating.

I have never seen (or heard about) paper from Vietnam; if you do purchase that paper, please let us know what it is like to write on with a fountain pen.

I have written with fountain pens for many years. I find that Rhodia make great pads in all sizes. I cannot speak to their bound books but there is no bleed through on the pads. The surface of the pads is smooth and works great with a wet pen. Great for a nib and hand that depend on flexible nib and hand pressure.

incidentally read Umberto Ecco on the value of cursive writing and brain development.

Agreed; Rhodia are also very good, and manufacture very good quality paper - and - whenever I have been unable to lay hands on Leuchtturm paper - I have used Rhodia pads and notebooks.

Some of my friends in academia say the exact same thing as Umberto Eco, that the physical act of writing (as opposed to tapping notes on the keyboard of a computer or iPad) aids learning, comprehension and memory in a way that the other does not, or cannot.

 

[GerritV]

Some of my friends in academia say the exact same thing as Umberto Eco, that the physical act of writing (as opposed to tapping notes on the keyboard of a computer or iPad) aids learning, comprehension and memory in a way that the other does not, or cannot.

I totally agree with the positive effect of handwriting.
Recently I started to add sketchnotes to my writing, as one more interesting level to process information.
Still a lot to learn though ;-)

 

[WriteNow]

if you do purchase that paper, please let us know what it is like to write on with a fountain pen.

I will! I'm frankly curious myself.

 

[WriteNow]

Some of my friends in academia say the exact same thing as Umberto Eco, that the physical act of writing (as opposed to tapping notes on the keyboard of a computer or iPad) aids learning, comprehension and memory in a way that the other does not, or cannot.

I haven't heard anything like this, but I wouldn't be surprised.

This goes off topic, but somewhat related: I recall hearing talk that learning worked better with reading actual books, not e-books. As I recall, there was even a study showing this.

 

[WriteNow]

incidentally read Umberto Ecco on the value of cursive writing and brain development.

And a cynic, who thinks George Carlin was right (“Governments don't want a population capable of critical thinking, they want obedient workers, people just smart enough to run the machines and just dumb enough to passively accept their situation."), might wonder if the real reason why cursive got dropped was the risk that it might develop brains!

 

[WriteNow]

Today, I started using a notebook made in Vietnam. I purposely looked around for one, having read (as I mentioned before) positive commentary elsewhere. I found one (basic spiral bound--the kind students might buy for school) at Office Depot for $1.75. Although some care was needed to make sure it was made in Vietnam--they had some that came from other places.

Of course, with limited use so far, my observations are limited...but so far I'm impressed. The paper feels smoother to write on, and overall feels like a step up from the last notebook. That said, it's not something anyone will probably mistake for fine stationery!

The only problem it has is that I wasn't able to use both sides of the paper. Well, I could have used both sides--but the writing on the other side showed through too much for me. That said, this problem was worse on the last notebook. And I wonder if pen/ink choice wouldn't make a difference, based on my experience with the last notebook. Still, given how cheap the notebooks are, using one side of the paper is a lot cheaper than buying a $$$$ notebook! Although I'd be interested in trying better paper at some point. But it's hard to justify as a daily thing for what I need at this point.

 

[WriteNow]

Oh, yes...the other thing I'm wishing is that I remembered better how paper behaved in the past... But I haven't bought any sort of paper except stuff for printers in years. My last experience with lined paper notebooks was probably when I was a student in high school, which was not long after they invented paper. :lol: (Or so it feels sometimes.)

 

[GerritV]

Today, I started using a notebook made in Vietnam. I purposely looked around for one, having read (as I mentioned before) positive commentary elsewhere. I found one (basic spiral bound--the kind students might buy for school) at Office Depot for $1.75. Although some care was needed to make sure it was made in Vietnam--they had some that came from other places.

Of course, with limited use so far, my observations are limited...but so far I'm impressed. The paper feels smoother to write on, and overall feels like a step up from the last notebook. That said, it's not something anyone will probably mistake for fine stationery!

The only problem it has is that I wasn't able to use both sides of the paper. Well, I could have used both sides--but the writing on the other side showed through too much for me. That said, this problem was worse on the last notebook. And I wonder if pen/ink choice wouldn't make a difference, based on my experience with the last notebook. Still, given how cheap the notebooks are, using one side of the paper is a lot cheaper than buying a $$$$ notebook! Although I'd be interested in trying better paper at some point. But it's hard to justify as a daily thing for what I need at this point.

In general, you'd probably have more ghosting from markers or sharpies, and less from fountain pen ink.
I personally don't like ghosting, even if I would only use one side of the paper.
But if you're happy with how the paper suits your purpose, that's all that matters (and indeed, $1.75 is quite affordable).

 

[FreakinEurekan]

Amazon literally sells a fountain pen for under $10, so I’m going to give it a try. Perhaps that’s as far as it’ll go; maybe I’ll just carry that instead of the Fisher. Or maybe I’ll be back in a few months looking for advice on something better 😬

Update on this pen - keeping in mind it's the first and only time I've written with a fountain pen, I'm very pleased with it! The "Fine" point still seems a bit heavier than I'd like but I read somewhere to try writing with the nib "upside down" and that does look better. The photo shows first a line from my Fisher space pen (the pen is "Raw brass" so the patina on it is normal). The second line is the fountain pen "Normal," and the third line is nib upside down. I have large hands and the fountain pen feels a lot better than the Fisher; that's a very short & slender pen for me to hold.

I think I will try to find an extra-fine nib but otherwise this looks like a keeper!

 

[WriteNow]

I think I will try to find an extra-fine nib but otherwise this looks like a keeper!

I'm the village idiot here with only hearsay to go by...but you might consider a Japanese pen. Apparently Japanese writing has made fine points a necessity. Supposedly, the tips are typically smaller than European makes at the same stated size. I hear a lot of good things about Pilot, and Pilot is very easily available. My local Office Depot has a Pilot MR at $30, er, I mean $29.99. (That cent saving over $30 is so important--and could make/break this month's budget. LOL) I wouldn't be surprised if my next pen--when I cave to temptation--ends up being a Pilot.

 

[GerritV]

I'm the village idiot here with only hearsay to go by...but you might consider a Japanese pen. Apparently Japanese writing has made fine points a necessity. Supposedly, the tips are typically smaller than European makes at the same stated size. I hear a lot of good things about Pilot, and Pilot is very easily available. My local Office Depot has a Pilot MR at $30, er, I mean $29.99. (That cent saving over $30 is so important--and could make/break this month's budget. LOL) I wouldn't be surprised if my next pen--when I cave to temptation--ends up being a Pilot.

Good tip about Japanese nibs.
From what I read, they squeezed in an extra nib size between F and M - which would explain why their F is a wee bit finer than a Western F. It also implies that from M upwards, the Japanese nib sizes correspond with the Western ones.

 

[GerritV]

<snip> and the third line is nib upside down. <snap>

AKA "Reverse writing"

 

[bunnspecial]

I see I missed a good paper discussion since the last time I checked in on this thread.

I'm personally a fan of Rhodia as a good general-purpose, general paper and generally have a bunch of A4 sized pads around. I prefer dot grid, especially as I find their ruling too wide for my taste.

I should clarify that I'm talking about 80gsm Rhodia. Their 90gsm paper that I've used has an icky feeling plasticy coating that I don't like.

Another recent favorite has been Japanese Mnenosyne(I may not have that spelled correctly). I usually carry a B6 sized pad in my shirt pocket, and have taken to using their B5 spiral books for lecture notes. One of the things I've REALLY come to appreciate about a lot of Japanese papers is that they are often much lighter than comparable quality European papers. The heft feels nice sometimes, but in notebooks you either end up sacrificing page count to keep it manageable, or end up with something thick and heavy. When I'm teaching, even an A4 Rhodia pad can get heavy after a little while carrying it around one handed, and the A5 format doesn't work well for me. B5 suits me a lot better, and the ~70gsm paper in Mnenosyne notebooks makes the whole thing feel a lot more "nimble".

Since this is a photo thread, I'll share a photo I took for P52 in the digital photography forum. This nib is a Parker Vacumatic Oversize, and in the background are a variety of Parker, Sheaffer, and Wahl-Eversharp celluloid pens. The Vacumatic nib is actually a bit of an unusual one in that it is relatively flexible, something not often seen on Vacumatics.

 

[GerritV]

I see I missed a good paper discussion since the last time I checked in on this thread.

I'm personally a fan of Rhodia as a good general-purpose, general paper and generally have a bunch of A4 sized pads around. I prefer dot grid, especially as I find their ruling too wide for my taste.

I should clarify that I'm talking about 80gsm Rhodia. Their 90gsm paper that I've used has an icky feeling plasticy coating that I don't like.

Another recent favorite has been Japanese Mnenosyne(I may not have that spelled correctly). I usually carry a B6 sized pad in my shirt pocket, and have taken to using their B5 spiral books for lecture notes. One of the things I've REALLY come to appreciate about a lot of Japanese papers is that they are often much lighter than comparable quality European papers. The heft feels nice sometimes, but in notebooks you either end up sacrificing page count to keep it manageable, or end up with something thick and heavy. When I'm teaching, even an A4 Rhodia pad can get heavy after a little while carrying it around one handed, and the A5 format doesn't work well for me. B5 suits me a lot better, and the ~70gsm paper in Mnenosyne notebooks makes the whole thing feel a lot more "nimble".

I'm planning on getting a Rhodia notebook (would be my first), so thanks for pointing out their 80 vs 90 gsm issue.

 

[bunnspecial]

I'm planning on getting a Rhodia notebook (would be my first), so thanks for pointing out their 80 vs 90 gsm issue.

If you're in the US, you pretty much have to go out of your way to look for the 90gsm. Most of what you find is 80gsm.

Also, Black'n Red notebooks available at most of the chain office supply stores in the US have Oxford Optik 90gsm paper. It's an excellent paper-IMO comparable in quality, although different feeling, than Rhodia.

 

[WriteNow]

This nib is a Parker Vacumatic Oversize

I assume this is vintage?

I got an older Parker desk pen of some sort at a yard sale when I was a teenager. As I recall, I really liked that pen.

 

[bunnspecial]

I assume this is vintage?

I got an older Parker desk pen of some sort at a yard sale when I was a teenager. As I recall, I really liked that pen.

Yes, it's a 1930s pen.

Most modern Parker leave me a bit less than inspired, although paradoxically I absolutely love the modern Duofold Centennial and it's one of the only C/C pen I tolerate because I like it so much(the Parker 75 is the other). I have I think 4 or 5 Duofold Centennials.

Vintage Parkers are a different story, though, and they're a company that really did just knock one after another out of the park. The Vacumatic, and the 51 are pens that I will never be without.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I love this thread; it is informative, instructive, educational and endlessly interesting, not to mention a most congenial and warm and welcoming place where one can meet fellow enthusiasts for acquiring, collecting, and writing with (and about) fountain pens.