Fraudulent Mac Retailers

[timsq]

Back Off Fraudie!

I might caution the MacRumors posters: I believe that this kind of denigration of character is actionable under slander and libel laws. While he may sure look like a cheat, are you willing to bet a legal penalty? --/blahg blah blahg//--Bottomline: I wouldn't allege fraud on a specific individual or company, unless I could personally guarantee that he was in fact fraudulent, and I'm guessing that none of the posters, no matter how much it looks that way can.

All you people are pathetic as Svner stated in one of his posts.--//lie//-- Too much time on your hands trying to play detective. Get a job or better yet a life!--//lots of jobs//--

And I quote Rower from post #204 "Forum members --//not shill newbies//-- are free to say whatever they want"

You ain't even got a twitch of the thermal paste chaffing the hide of the all victimizing LAWMANCA. Low man cow! You are not a member, but a newbie and a soon to be banned one if I had a torch. Bottomline, go back to Canada you frostback vampire scammer. It doesn't look like anything other than a scare pack of grifters licking their wounds. Now scat!
</rant>

 

[aplasticspork]

You ain't even got a twitch of the thermal paste chaffing the hide of the all victimizing LAWMANCA. Low man cow! You are not a member, but a newbie and a soon to be banned one if I had a torch. Bottomline, go back to Canada you frostback vampire scammer. It doesn't look like anything other than a scare pack of grifters licking their wounds. Now scat!
</rant>

i couldnt have put it better myself
seriously lawmanca, just give it up, we're not going to listen to you
--andrzej

 

[lawmanca]

i couldnt have put it better myself
seriously lawmanca, just give it up, we're not going to listen to you
--andrzej

As a child of just 15 years of age I can understand you are confused and frustrated. I know you parents very well and don't think they would care for you spending all this time in front of a computer playing video games. Play some sports, go out and be young, enjoy the beautiful pacific northwest.

Yes I did buy a computer from these folks you are attacking and did receive and it works great. I'm using it right now to write you this wonderful note. Feel very sorry for those that claim to not have received theirs but one must always be careful of making false accusations when you are not the victim.
At your young age you might not be liable for much but let me be clear, your parents could be. Would you like them to loose everything they worked so hard for because you made a mistake and accused a person of doing something horrible? this happens all the time.

andrzej: I wish you all the best in your life, remember your future is bright.

 

[Squire]

Here they are...

Now I'm no detective, but do any of you see a pattern here? It's the simple case of the ONE happy customer from the "store" in question. The posts below are all (excluding the one above) of lawmanca's contributions to Mac Forums. His praise of these "stores" has been consistent from February until now. Note the name and claims to know the law. All incontrovertibly false. I highly doubt a real "lawman" would misspell the word lose. (See last post.)

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the man you've all been wanting to meet, Dennis!!!!!!

Squire

I haven't read any of the links or done comparison of the site.

However, I might caution the Mac Rumor editors: I believe that this kind of denigration of character is actionable under slander and libel laws. While he may sure look like a cheat, are you willing to bet a legal penalty? Maybe the original poster is a fraud himself. Maybe the fraud-ster is able to beat the charges in court. Maybe etc.

Bottomline: I wouldn't allege fraud on a specific individual(s) on my servers, unless I could personally guarantee that he was in fact fraudulent, and I'm guessing that none of the Mac/ editors can, no matter how much it looks that way.

This is the second time I've purchased from macmastershop.com.
The powerbook I purchased was shipped promptly, in good condition, and for a great price. I ordered on a Thursday and received my items on Tuesday; very fast! I must admit that the condition of the shipping box was not very good, though this may have been the fault of the shipper and not macmaster.
Paid the first time with my credit card and second time with electronic wire transfer to macmaster's Horizon bank account.Nevertheless, a positive experience.

This is the second time I've purchased from macmastershop.com.
The powerbook I purchased was shipped promptly, in good condition, and for a great price. I ordered on a Thursday and received my items on Tuesday; very fast! I must admit that the condition of the shipping box was not very good, though this may have been the fault of the shipper and not macmaster.
Paid the first time with my credit card and second time with electronic wire transfer to macmaster's Horizon bank account.Nevertheless, a positive experience.

I might caution the MacRumors posters: I believe that this kind of denigration of character is actionable under slander and libel laws. While he may sure look like a cheat, are you willing to bet a legal penalty? Maybe the original poster timsq/svenr is a fraud himself or the same person. Maybe the fraud-ster is able to beat the charges in court. Maybe etc.

Bottomline: I wouldn't allege fraud on a specific individual or company, unless I could personally guarantee that he was in fact fraudlent, and I'm guessing that none of the posters, no matter how much it looks that way can.

I might caution the MacRumors posters: I believe that this kind of denigration of character is actionable under slander and libel laws. While he may sure look like a cheat, are you willing to bet a legal penalty? Maybe the original poster timsq-svner is a fraud himself or the same person. Maybe the fraudster is able to beat the charges in court. Maybe etc.

Bottomline: I wouldn't allege fraud on a specific individual or company, unless I could personally guarantee that he was in fact fraudulent, and I'm guessing that none of the posters, no matter how much it looks that way can.

All you people are pathetic as Svner stated in one of his posts. Too much time on your hands trying to play detective. Get a job or better yet a life!

And I quote Rower from post #204 "Forum members are free to say whatever they want"

 

[jxyama]

Feel very sorry for those that claim to not have received theirs but one must always be careful of making false accusations when you are not the victim.

one must also always be careful of wrongfully defending a fraud when you seem to be the only exception.

as rower said, this is a privately held forum with opinions. libel or slander? yeah, whatever... (not that i accused anyone of anything. i've taken other people's experiences and have been posting my opinions on them. what i'm (and majority of posters here) are doing is no worse than posting "movie A was really bad" (if they were actually scammed a couple thousand dollars) or "i hear movie A is really awful" (if they've been just following posts here) - neither of which comes anywhere near libel or slander.)

by the way, if you claim to have a computer (or two, as you posted), post pics of several things:
-your credit card bill (like you posted for one of the computers) or macmastershop (or whatever) invoice showing the item ordered and the price you paid (you can block out any private info)
-your computer with you holding a sign that says something to the extent "MR forum - lawmanca" and the same on the screen of the computer itself and the MR forum webpage with your profile. (so we can reasonably assume it's not photoshopped.) (you don't have to show yourself. just a hand holding the sign will do.)

would you be willing to do that?

 

[Thirteenva]

Don't feed the trolls

 

[jxyama]

Don't feed the trolls

thanks but i don't think this is a troll. this is serious. he's not posting just for the sake of it - if he can back up his claim, then it actually adds something to the discussion.

 

[aplasticspork]

As a child of just 15 years of age I can understand you are confused and frustrated. I know you parents very well and don't think they would care for you spending all this time in front of a computer playing video games. Play some sports, go out and be young, enjoy the beautiful pacific northwest.

Yes I did buy a computer from these folks you are attacking and did receive and it works great. I'm using it right now to write you this wonderful note. Feel very sorry for those that claim to not have received theirs but one must always be careful of making false accusations when you are not the victim.
At your young age you might not be liable for much but let me be clear, your parents could be. Would you like them to loose everything they worked so hard for because you made a mistake and accused a person of doing something horrible? this happens all the time.

andrzej: I wish you all the best in your life, remember your future is bright.

I resent that you would call me confused and frustrated, let alone a child. you dont know anything about my parents, they dont mind how i spend my time. i cant play sports very well because i happen to have exercise induced asthma, and the beautiful pacific northwest isnt very pleasant at this time of year. if you did happen to buy a computer from them then you're one out of a whole hell of a lot to actually get it, not a very good track record for a company is it? but oh wait, my opinion doesnt matter does it? because im just an idiot 15 year old. everyone should disregard everything that i've said so far right? and please, stop trying to threaten me.
--andrzej

 

[jxyama]

lawmanca -

i must ask, why are you defending this company/possible scammer? what's in your interest? you got your computer - others haven't - so why get so defensive when you have nothing to gain? (except feel good stuff, i guess, is that so important that you'd seek out in a forum like this?)

 

[Raid]

Hi all, late last night I did a drive by of DPI's store front, and the pictures linked to Digital_Gary's post is the store front that I saw. When I'm free during their business hours (i.e. around or after Christmas) I'll go in for a look see, maybe I'll even get to see Gary face to face.

Also, I am in touch with an officer who has been working this case for about 2 years. It seems to me that we are on the verge of nailing Dennis, but we need some cooperation from the RCMP.

gkbruce, Is this officer willing to receive emails from victims who've posted here?

I also wanted to ask if lawmanca stood for law-man-.ca? If it does, I'd like to request your badge number and the division that you work for, however I doubt you are even a law clerk; your unprofessional remark calling the posters here "pathetic” would strongly indicate that your words lack the conviction of experience.

(Victims take note) As far as accusations go, the victims must bear the "burden of proof" wire transfers, money order receipts, email communications are all important items to build your case. Wire transfers are the best, it takes a lot of information to open bank accounts, that way the seller (or owner of the debited account) has provided identification to the bank to open that account. I also know wire transfers always have an audit trail. So if you lost your wire transfer receipt, then go to your bank and ask for the transfer record. Then the seller would have to supply evidence that shipment was made, or that the money was returned. Thus if you have your evidence, the burden of proof is now on the seller to prove that the purchase contract was fulfilled.

Putting the spot light on scams is the worst thing that could happen to them, they know they are breaking the law, and I'm confident at least one of the victms here can provide solid evidence to law enforcment for a fraud conviction.

 

[Digital_Gary]

Thanks for the back up Raid

(Victims take note) As far as accusations go, the victims must bear the "burden of proof" wire transfers, money order receipts, email communications are all important items to build your case.

Having never sent or received a wire transfer, I didn't know for sure but I assumed there must be some sort of receipt. I would LOVE to see the receipts from our "fraudulent" transactions.

 

[lawmanca]

Burden of proof is the obligation to prove allegations which are presented in a legal action. It is one of the most important issues in litigation, and in criminal cases it is closely linked with the principle in most modern legal systems that an accused person is innocent until proven guilty. The burden, therefore, initially lies with the plaintiffs in a case, and not on a defendant who would need to prove that "something did not happen".

In practice, the question of who has burden of proof usually does not change the outcome of a case, because prosecutors rarely bring cases which are marginal enough so that who has burden of proof makes a difference. In any case, most criminal cases in the U.S.A. are resolved via plea bargaining in which burden of proof again does not make a significant difference to the outcome of the case.

Outside the legal context, "burden of proof" means that someone suggesting a new theory or stating a claim must provide evidence to support it: it is not sufficient to say "you can't disprove this". For example, if I say "MacXXXshop is plotting to steal our money" it is my burden of proof to prove this plot is actually occurring.

To win a law suit for fraud, you must show that you were truly deceived by the misrepresentations given and that you reasonably relied on the statement or act to your detriment. In other words, your reliance on the action or statement affected your course of action. And you suffered harm because of the misrepresentation.

This is the basis for an action for fraud, however there is an exception. Exaggerated claims, "sales talk", (car salesmen hooks) or "puffing" are not usually considered fraudulent since the courts view them as statements of opinion, not statements of facts.

You must also show that the person making the statement knew it was an outright lie. This element may be a major hurdle to prove because dishonest people are very skillful and ingenious at disguising their statements, knowing the "fine line" to avoid legal trouble or face any scrutiny. In a nutshell: In a Criminal proceeding, the Burden of Proof is on the Prosecution to prove that the accused defendant actually did commit a crime.

For argument sake, even if the proof was provided by these victims the most likely outcome would be the 'Company' would get fined (slap in the wrist). Remember the case of Auctionsaver? to my knowledge Richard Phim & Carman Caldwell are not behind bars and the list of victims was greater than that of the accused.

jxyama:
I don't own a digital camera, but will be purchasing one towards Christmas. I don't think it will make much difference if I posted photos of my beautiful computers or for that matter if I sent you a sample of my DNA since judgement has already been passed on my actions here at Mac Rumors. But given that you sound like a more rational individual, the option of sending them directly to your personal email address is open to discussion.

Let me be clear that I am not defending, protecting, authorizing, supporting or acting on behalf of this company. I am however saying that acussing another individual or company based on Circumstantial evidence has no place in a board such as this and is better left to the profesionals and the legal system to sort out.

 

[dallama]

Burden of proof is the obligation to prove allegations which are presented in a legal action. It is one of the most important issues in litigation, and in criminal cases it is closely linked with the principle in most modern legal systems that an accused person is innocent until proven guilty. The burden, therefore, initially lies with the plaintiffs in a case, and not on a defendant who would need to prove that "something did not happen".

In practice, the question of who has burden of proof usually does not change the outcome of a case, because prosecutors rarely bring cases which are marginal enough so that who has burden of proof makes a difference. In any case, most criminal cases in the U.S.A. are resolved via plea bargaining in which burden of proof again does not make a significant difference to the outcome of the case.

Funny, you lifted the definition off the internet , but left out the most important portion of it.

"Burden of proof is the obligation to prove allegations which are presented in a legal action. It is one of the most important issues in litigation, and in criminal cases it is closely linked with the principle in most modern legal systems that an accused person is innocent until proven guilty. The burden, therefore, initially lies with the plaintiffs in a case, and not on a defendant who would need to prove that something did not happen. Adequate evidence can, however, shift the burden of proof to the other party"

source:
http://www.fact-index.com/b/bu/burden_of_proof.html

the same definition in other sources:
encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/burden%20of%20proof
open-encyclopedia.com/Burden_of_proof

all point out that adequate evidence shifts the burden of proof to the other party.

Now let's see...I have as evidence:
1) The original paperwork filled to wire the money
2) A transaction statement from the bank confirming the money was wired to his account.
3) The transaction amount and reference number listed in my bank statement.

Do you think Derald/Scott/Dennis has proof that he shipped the computer?

Of course not, since he never shipped it.

Does he have proof that he refunded my money?

Of course not, since he never refunded it.

If you believe that people on this forum are making up all this stuff, you have the option of not reading the forum. Let us worry about "burden of proof".

Thank you

 

[lildancer]

lawmanca

You can throw all the legal-ease you want at us. The reality is there are numerous victims from around the world that have been ripped off by this crook and we (including myself) have the actual receipt of money transfer from my bank to Derald Dutchak, have numerous emails from him about my computer on back order, and oh, my gosh! What do you know! NO COMPUTER!!!! SVNR's website lists ligit victims that have more than enough proof to prove thier cases, and have contacted out local, State, Federal and even Canadian authorities.

I find it interesting also, that is you actually did get a computer from one of these computer scam sites, why would you harp on us who have truy been victimized? Information on all of these Mac.....com sites that we have referred to have been chencked out and the information provided to the public has been false. That's a fact. The first thing a law enforcement person will tell you if you are buying on the internet is check out the site to see if its legit.

I was not educated enough to know Apple's policies for not discounting their Macs, so I was taken in by Derald Dutchak. If I can't get this guy, I will at least do everything I can to make his life and those of his associates as miserable as possible by continuing to educate and warn the public.

As has been stated before, we victims welcome someone to come forward and try to sue us for slander or defamation of character. We would love an actual person to have the authorities talk to! Maybe that's you????

By the way, I find it interesting that someone who claims to have received a computer from one of these sites would make threats to a 15 year old and his family. It wouldn't take much to find out your identity from the authorities, and who knows maybe you are Derald! They would love to get they're hands on you....and so would we!

 

[lawmanca]

Funny, you lifted the definition off the internet , but left out the most important portion of it.

"Burden of proof is the obligation to prove allegations which are presented in a legal action. It is one of the most important issues in litigation, and in criminal cases it is closely linked with the principle in most modern legal systems that an accused person is innocent until proven guilty. The burden, therefore, initially lies with the plaintiffs in a case, and not on a defendant who would need to prove that something did not happen. Adequate evidence can, however, shift the burden of proof to the other party"

source:
http://www.fact-index.com/b/bu/burden_of_proof.html

the same definition in other sources:
encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/burden%20of%20proof
open-encyclopedia.com/Burden_of_proof

all point out that adequate evidence shifts the burden of proof to the other party.

Now let's see...I have as evidence:
1) The original paperwork filled to wire the money
2) A transaction statement from the bank confirming the money was wired to his account.
3) The transaction amount and reference number listed in my bank statement.

Do you think Derald/Scott/Dennis has proof that he shipped the computer?

Of course not, since he never shipped it.

Does he have proof that he refunded my money?

Of course not, since he never refunded it.

If you believe that people on this forum are making up all this stuff, you have the option of not reading the forum. Let us worry about "burden of proof".

Thank you

I'm not saying people are making up "stuff", what I am saying is you should let the authorities handle this. Maybe Derald/Scott/Dennis does have proof of shipping or refund. Dallama, there is always 3 sides to a story:

1. your side
2. Derald/Scott/Dennis side
3. and the truth

I would recommend you consult an attorney in your area if you haven't done so already. They will be able to point you in the right direction. Blowing off steam on this board does not help anyone not even you.

 

[Rower_CPU]

In light of recent behavior in this thread and evidence that has come into the possession of the moderators, we feel it is necessary to close this thread to further commentary. This discussion has been enlightening for victims and potential buyers as well, but it is turning into a problem as far as management goes. It will remain stickied at the top of this forum so as to be accessible in the future.

We strongly urge any parties that have been defrauded to seek help from their local authorities. We will co-operate with them if they come forward to request the information we have(webmaster@macrumors.com).

Forum members are also encouraged to contact each other and the site moderators via private message.