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katbel

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Aug 19, 2009
3,622
32,310
I'm finding photography more and more appealing but
my Panasonic Lumix FZ70 is starting to give me some frustration because of the hardware, good for something but not for all.
I think I'm ready to upgrade: I'm on a budget, 800/1200 $ maximum, so an entry level with lens
I've been comparing and reading since few weeks but I'm lost at this point
Don't know who to trust
I would like a camera/lens with a good aperture range, that I'm missing with mine f2.8-8, shutter speed, tilting or articulated viewfinder etc.
I don't mind if it's 2019 even 2018 if it's a good camera.

Any suggestions?

Update
After all tips from professionals photographers in this thread, some comparison and few more reading
I got the Sony ILCE A6400 as a bundle with a 50mm and a 210mm lenses
It's incredible: I love it!
 
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bsamcash

macrumors 65816
Jul 31, 2008
1,033
2,623
San Jose, CA
With a budget like that you can go all the way up to the Sony a7II with a kit lens. It’s a full frame mirrorless body and you can adapt vintage lenses to it. It’s often on sale for 1000USD with the kit 28-70mm lens.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,998
9,976
CT
With the release of the A7IV, there will be deals to be had on the A7III.

I would consider the Fuji route also. Something like an XT-3 or an X-PRO2
I can't seen the a7iii going much below $1500 anytime soon.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,998
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I disagree. The only place where it might lag is autofocus. But that will be lens dependent.
I don't think the a7ii has the eye tracking that most newer cameras have. For a few more hundred I would spend for something newer.
 
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bsamcash

macrumors 65816
Jul 31, 2008
1,033
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San Jose, CA
I don't think the a7ii has the eye tracking that most newer cameras have. For a few more hundred I would spend for something newer.
Correct. It has eye single, but not continuous. I used to have the ii and I currently have the iii. Other than the better autofocus and a slightly larger viewfinder, there is no difference that I feel justifies the extra cost.
 
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kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
Correct. It has eye single, but not continuous. I used to have the ii and I currently have the iii. Other than the better autofocus and a slightly larger viewfinder, there is no difference that I feel justifies the extra cost.
And considering where the OP is coming from, I think it is a massive jump to the A7ii and so a worthy consideration.
 

bsamcash

macrumors 65816
Jul 31, 2008
1,033
2,623
San Jose, CA
Battery life is a big one.
Actually you make a good point here. The battery life is massively better. But I’m still not sure it justifies the extra cost. It all comes down to image quality to me personally, and I don’t see a big difference. Not even the rumored change in color science.
 
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smirking

macrumors 68040
Aug 31, 2003
3,914
3,992
Silicon Valley
The a7ii is getting old and outdated by todays standards.

Any camera released within the past 6 years is quite a beast though. It's kinda hard to go wrong. You could very well just throw a price out there and buy any camera from Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus at that price point and be quite happy.

Actually you make a good point here. The battery life is massively better. But I’m still not sure it justifies the extra cost. It all comes down to image quality to me personally, and I don’t see a big difference. Not even the rumored change in color science.

Not very much has changed in image quality since the middle of the last decade.

It's one of the reasons why I've stuck with the DSLR format instead of going mirrorless. The image quality is about the same and I like the DSLR shooting experience better. I have one mirrorless camera, but it's my fun camera.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
22,998
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Any camera released within the past 6 years is quite a beast though. It's kinda hard to go wrong. You could very well just throw a price out there and buy any camera from Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus at that price point and be quite happy.
How far back do you want to buy thought. At what point are you just throwing away money on older tech.

If you are looking for a long term investment buy newer, if it's just something to play around with sure you can buy something older.
 

OldMacs4Me

macrumors 68020
May 4, 2018
2,302
29,705
Wild Rose And Wind Belt
Beyond wanting a larger sensor size, what are you looking for. If you are trying to keep it compact your choices are a bit limited. If you don't mind a bigger foot print then things really open up, including interchangeable lenses.

I can tell you the Lumix ZS 200 has a very limited aperture range, so if you are looking to expand or contract the field of focus your main weapon with that camera is varying the focal length. Nor does that camera have a tiltable display. I like this camera but I suspect you should be looking in a different direction.

In the Lumix line you might look at this one, which uses the 4/3rds sensor. If you are looking for long telephoto that of course would mean a second lens.
 

Steven-iphone

macrumors 68000
Apr 25, 2020
1,953
16,490
United States
It depends on the features and ergonomics you want. Do you like dials and onscreen settings. Or, would you like traditional shutter speed and aperture ring settings.

Ricoh GR III - fixed lens, pocketable ~ 899 new
Fujifilm X-E4 - Interchangeable lens - EVF, Small, ~ 1049 new w/27mm lens

These are U.S. prices
 

smirking

macrumors 68040
Aug 31, 2003
3,914
3,992
Silicon Valley
How far back do you want to buy thought. At what point are you just throwing away money on older tech.

I certainly wouldn't pay top dollar, but a lot of older bodies that have image quality indistinguishable for all intents and purposes from current editions can be had at a very nice discount.
 
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ThunderSkunk

macrumors 601
Dec 31, 2007
4,066
4,534
Milwaukee Area
I got a second Nikon Z6 to carry my 14-24mm around on. I think they're down to about $800-900, and the charts on even the cheap lenses absolutely spank the behinds of anything else within a range of about three times the price. Pumping $ into bodies may be fun in the short term, but bodies come and go, good glass is a long-term investment. I dunno, anything older than about 2018 and you can still get better quality shooting 4x5, and learn an enormous amount about photography without getting lost in the tech.
 
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Clix Pix

macrumors Core
You might want to take a look at Sony's line of APS-C mirrorless cameras as opposed to the full-frame sensor cameras. I think the price tags are lower on the APS-C ones. Also, if one decides to make the shift later from APS-C to FF, Sony uses the E mount for both types of camera, which can be advantageous. They still do also designate some specifically as "FE" for the full-frame Sony bodies, but there is definitely flexibility overall.

At this point in time, DSLRs are really not the bodies and lenses moving forward. Sure, a lot of people still have and still love their DSLRs and lenses, as there are some outstanding ones, but overall, the camera manufacturers have already pretty much turned their attention away from DSLRs and are developing lines of mirrorless APS-C and FF bodies with native mirrorless lenses to go with them. Starting out new now with camera gear, IMHO the direction in which to go is mirrorless.

Adapters are available as well so that users who still have older gear can use their other lenses on the new mirrorless bodies, too. (An example of this would be Nikon, with its FTZ adapter.) As well, adapters can also be used in some situations to use a lens of a different brand (third party) on a camera body, too. As probably just about everyone here knows, though, I'm a definite proponent of using native lenses and certainly when starting out fresh, that makes sense as the way to go. Also new lenses have benefits that the older ones don't offer, such as better coatings, etc.

Take a look at what is available in general in your overall price range, taking into consideration that you will need to add at least one extra battery and possibly memory cards if the camera body you choose uses a different type than your Panasonic does. You might also prefer to use a camera strap other than the one provided by the manufacturer. Most photographers don't like to go walking around with a strap that loudly proclaims that the camera around their neck is [name the brand]. Aside from that, straps made by other than camera manufacturers themselves often can be more comfortable and convenient in use.

While it might seem tempting to go the small and lightweight m4/3 route, again, like DSLRs, that is a form factor/footprint which seems to be losing fans for whatever reasons. Mirrorless, either APS-C or FF, is pretty clearly the name of the game these days for many manufacturers and their customers.

As for specific brand recommendations, you'll find good cameras by every manufacturer, but each brand has its own special characteristics. One thing to do before buying ANYTHING is to actually hold and handle any camera body and lens combination in which you are interested. See how it feels in the hand. Are the buttons and dials in locations which feel natural to you? Are there too many buttons and dials or not enough? More advanced cameras put a lot out on top and on the rear of their camera bodies, whereas it seems as though many "beginner level" cameras require an awful lot of menu-diving for even the most often-used functions and features. What about other features and functions? Is there something you'd especially want that a given brand or camera body doesn't offer or does offer? Is the presence or absence of that a deal-breaker for you?

Think about the kind of shooting you want and like to do, as that will help you determine what lens(es) you will want right out of the starting gate but also in the future. Check to see that the brand in which you are interested actually offers a good selection of lenses, provides choices in the focal ranges and styles (primes, zooms) which would be what you'd want right now and of course whether they will have the kind of lenses you will want further on down the road in a year or two, when you're ready for them. Lenses which are already available on a camera dealer's shelves are a good bet; hoping that some manufacturer's "road map" of lenses they plan to offer in the (undated) distant future will come to fruition at that time or sooner is a bit of a risk.

Good luck! This is not an easy decision, as many of us here can attest!
 
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mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,052
50,507
What do you shoot now, and other than aperture range, where do you feel you are lacking? Like what photos are frustrating to you? Aperture is obviously important, but you can make do with a slower lens on a larger sensor, because larger sensors handle higher ISOs better.

Do you currently shoot in manual mode? If not, is that something you are wanting to learn? Or do you want a camera with auto mode also, or primarily?

Nikon has a steal on the Z50 two lens kit, although the lenses might not be fast enough. You could go body only and get the 40mm 2.0 pancake lens if you don't mind a fixed focal length. So another question, what kind of zoom range?

The Z50 would probably be a great size for you, coming from a bridge camera. I agree with going to mirrorless over dSLR, just because the tech and industry are moving that way, regardless of what brand you ultimately choose.

 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,052
50,507
In your inquiring about what the OP is shooting now, maybe you missed the part in which she stated:

I'm finding photography more and more appealing but
my Panasonic Lumix FZ70 is starting to give me some frustration...
There are a lot of different ways to be frustrated with a camera. Knowing what specifically is frustrating helps to make better recommendations. Not sure why that would be hard to understand.

Recommending a setup for someone who shoots travel can be a lot different from someone shooting still lifes or sports in terms of lens recommendations, ISO performance, burst speed.
 
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Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Molly, I tend to be very literal and after I re-read the entire original OP post and yours I realized that I was probably misinterpreting the response in the first place so deleted my post. My initial thought was that you had not read the OP's post thoroughly and therefore didn't know what kind/brand of camera she was using. With another reading of this it finally clicked that more than likely you did know the kind of camera but were probably asking about something else quite different -- i.e., due to the type of camera and its limitations, dissatisfaction with the kinds of images shot in the way that the OP likes to shoot. Whatever.... Anyway, I deleted my post because it didn't seem relevant after all.
 
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