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Are new MBAs (or are they all MBPs now?) considered game playable? My wife’s older MBA running Catalina is rather sad in the game dept. 😔
I'm surprised how good my M1 MacBook Air is. Obviously, I can't play the same games as I did with my mid-2012 quad-core i7, GeForce 650M because most have been made unplayable. 1 TB storage and 16 GB of RAM make them even in two ways.

I haven't tried as much as I should but they're slow to arrive.
 
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Are new MBAs (or are they all MBPs now?) considered game playable? My wife’s older MBA running Catalina is rather sad in the game dept. 😔
I would definitely say 'no' ... or at least it is like comparing the early 2000s Powerbooks to iBooks.

Things like Divinity Original Sin 2 play amazingly well on even the M1 MacBook Air (also M1 iPad), but when playing something like Baldur's Gate 3 the problem is more about RAM than processor.

Tossing a few billion would help but how long to get the invested money back and show a return on the investment ?

Companies make investments for a variety of reasons - look at Apple in education ... it was more about normalizing the Mac experience for kids believing it would pay off later in their lives. It wasn't a bit profit generator.

People like my wife playing word or matching games on their iPhone are different than people like myself spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on games each year across decades. The investment in a loyal audience has numerous kinds of paybacks - gaming is a huge market and being seen as an innovator ... and given that Apple is making close to $50 BILLION in profit PER QUARTER, that type of investment of ~0.05% of annual profits is more trivial than the average person buying a lottery ticket.
 
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Give it time and the Steam Deck will be more dominant then the Mac.
Absolutely agree - I preordered and got the original Deck (and now OLED) on day of release. And it changed my gaming pretty much immediately.

For me it has also consolidated my gaming on Steam - I had been buying more stuff on GoG through the years to support their no-DRM efforts, and while I know there are launchers to play other non-Steam games, I've chosen to stay 'vanilla' and just use Steam. And it is amazing.
 
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Absolutely agree - I preordered and got the original Deck (and now OLED) on day of release. And it changed my gaming pretty much immediately.

For me it has also consolidated my gaming on Steam - I had been buying more stuff on GoG through the years to support their no-DRM efforts, and while I know there are launchers to play other non-Steam games, I've chosen to stay 'vanilla' and just use Steam. And it is amazing.
I like my large monitor, but I would consider the Deck if I traveled a lot. I’m vested in Steam, but I was aggravated that you can’t set games there to not update. The example is the Fallout 4 Next Gen Patch. I wanted no part of that and had to buy the GOG.com version to avoid this update which fortunately was just $10.
 
but I would consider the Deck if I traveled a lot
As a nerd person, who loves gadgets I'm tempted, but if I'm being honest I have almost zero use case for it. Like you I also like a large monitor and I think I'd struggle with the smaller display. Since my travel days are largely behind me, I don't see an reason to buy it. Hell, my Razer is largely unused which was my gaming rig when I was traveling
 
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I was aggravated that you can’t set games there to not update.
Is that true? I have never disabled - but thought there was a "keep this game up to date" option you could disable? (or is it something that Steam can override?)
As a nerd person, who loves gadgets I'm tempted, but if I'm being honest I have almost zero use case for it.
For whatever reason I just immediately connected with it - I had a work project at a company facility a couple of hours north which had me gone nearly every week last year, but even before then I was happily gaming in bed with the Deck.
 
Companies make investments for a variety of reasons - look at Apple in education ... it was more about normalizing the Mac experience for kids believing it would pay off later in their lives. It wasn't a bit profit generator.

People like my wife playing word or matching games on their iPhone are different than people like myself spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on games each year across decades. The investment in a loyal audience has numerous kinds of paybacks - gaming is a huge market and being seen as an innovator ... and given that Apple is making close to $50 BILLION in profit PER QUARTER, that type of investment of ~0.05% of annual profits is more trivial than the average person buying a lottery ticket.

In the end, a corporation is all about profit. If Apple thought that it would make back the billions it would invest in games, it would have done so already.
 
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In the end, a corporation is all about profit. If Apple thought that it would make back the billions it would invest in games, it would have done so already.
Apple has been about easy money most all of the time that the company has existed. They only push themselves when they see an opportunity that will cost them a lot less money to maintain.
 
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Apple has been about easy money most all of the time that the company has existed. They only push themselves when they see an opportunity that will cost them a lot less money to maintain.
Isn't that any and every business in the world? Spend money when you have too, and look at ways to maximize profits. Apple does spend a lot of money on R&D, some of which sees the light of day in new or improved products.
 
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In the end, a corporation is all about profit. If Apple thought that it would make back the billions it would invest in games, it would have done so already.
Assuming that is true ... why do they every other year spend millions putting together tech demos and bringing in game developers to tout a single game that is released to crickets months later and then ... nothing for two years? It is like they KNOW gaming is a core part of their audience but lack the insight and/or competence to pull it off.
 
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Assuming that is true ... why do they every other year spend millions putting together tech demos and bringing in game developers to tout a single game that is released to crickets months later and then ... nothing for two years? It is like they KNOW gaming is a core part of their audience but lack the insight and/or competence to pull it off.

It's about them spending the minimum amount of money for the most return.

Think of it as advertising.
 
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Is that true? I have never disabled - but thought there was a "keep this game up to date" option you could disable? (or is it something that Steam can override?)

For whatever reason I just immediately connected with it - I had a work project at a company facility a couple of hours north which had me gone nearly every week last year, but even before then I was happily gaming in bed with the Deck.
I’ll have to go back and look at it again, but I feel certain that choice on Steam is no longer there as something that can be disabled.
 
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Isn't that any and every business in the world? Spend money when you have too, and look at ways to maximize profits. Apple does spend a lot of money on R&D, some of which sees the light of day in new or improved products.
I guess that I have worked for several of the exceptions.

I would expect General Motors, Ford, Proctor & Gamble, and energy companies to work that way but certainly not technology makers. General Motors in particular is so messed up, they'd spend 30 years going out of business because they have to find everything first. They probably don't even realize how bad their money situation is until the banks call.

Then again, Apple needed John Sculley because no one was really paying attention to where the money was going.
 
No question, I think we're seeing this now. It seems that publishers are spending the time, effort and money to ensure games run on the steam deck but not the mac.

Here's one site's calendar of AAA games being released this year

A quick and unofficial count looks to have about 175 games scheduled for release - as reported by that web page. Of that 175, 149 will include the PC (others are PS4/Xbox exclusives). If you search on that web page, for the word Mac you get 4 or 2% of all AAA games being released.

Now that page and other metrics do not show whether the game will run on a steam deck, Looking at protondb and reading the dashboard correctly, it seems that 81% of the top 100 games have the platinum or gold designation regarding compatibility.
Seems like more popular and current games can and do run on the steam deck, where as only a handful of those games run on the Mac

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This reminds me of your comment in another thread after I shared some Steam Mac gaming stats in response to someone saying ”Macs don’t have many games”. You wrote ”Just spouting number of games doesn’t really paint the full picture. Many AAA titles do not run on Macs, pure and simple.”

The discussion then was about Windows/PC vs Mac/macOS. Here in the same way your numbers don’t paint the full picture. There are a few facts that have to be considered before one can say we’re seeing a Steam Deck dominance over the Mac at the moment. Steam Deck has to have either a higher number of users/players or compatible games than Mac has.

According to the Steam survey in April 42.33% of Linux gamers used SteamOS Holo which is the OS for Steam Deck. Linux in total had 1.9% of the Steam user base which means Steam Deck had 0.8% of Steam’s user base. That is lower than 1.35% for Mac meaning there are fewer Steam Deck owners/gamers than Mac gamers on Steam today.

Neither can such a conclusion about the dominance of Steam Deck be made by looking at the number of available/verified/playable games today. Polygon’s game calendar is not for upcoming AAA games only. It’s a mix of AAA, AA and indie games. Those 149 PC titles are not only AAA games. For that reason one can’t say ”2% of all AAA games being released” are coming to Mac.

Since it seems fine to spout numbers this time I refer again to some better numbers that do paint the full picture. I mean if we’re going to make some conclusions why use a limited release list with only 175 games instead of the holy source itself, SteamDB?

According to SteamDB 11,558 Windows games are scheduled for release or have been released this year. 2,473 of those are planned for Mac. That’s over 21%, not 2%. Yes I’m talking about all types of games, not only AAA since your/Polygon’s list is about all types of games too. At the same time there are only 950 verified or playable games planned for release on Steam Deck. That’s about 8% of new games.

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If we look at the number of existing games for Steam Deck it has 4,915 verified games. That’s about 3% of the Windows games. Apple Silicon alone has 4,762 native games (Mac App Store not included). Applegamingwiki has also 476 verified Rosetta games working on AS but that’s the number they have tested. The actual number is higher, if not much higher. That’s a total of 5,238 verified AS games (Mac App Store not included) which is more than Steam Deck’s 4,915. Steam Deck has also 10,126 playable games according to SteamDB. That’s the number of platinum/gold games. Mac has 45,933 playable games. Yes, many of those are 32-bit but again many are unverified 64-bit games.

Here is the most important fact in this discussion though. Steam Deck has to use a Wine compatibility layer in order to play all the Windows games. As we all know it’s called Proton. Without it Steam Deck would be a failure and people couldn’t run all those ”popular and current games”. There is also such a compatibility layer for Mac by the same team behind Proton. It’s called Crossover, by Codeweavers. SteamOS alone can’t handle all the Windows games just as macOS alone can’t do the same. If we’re allowed to include all the compatible Windows games with the help of Proton in this discussion we have to do the same for Mac with the help of Crossover, pure and simple.

This means that many of those popular AAA Windows games and many old 32-bit games can already run on Mac too. Old and new games like Left 4 Dead, Portal, Half-Life, Team Fortress, Elden Ring, Cyberpunk 2077, Sekiro, GTA V, Fallout, The Forest, The Division, Neir: Automata, Hogwarts Legacy and many many more run well and even better thanks to Apple Silicon Macs' superior HW compared to Steam Deck.

Proton being free and Crossover not is not the subject of the discussion about Steam Deck’s dominance. It’s about how many old and new Windows games the Deck and the Mac can play natively or through Wine. Valve pays for Proton to make it free. Even though Apple doesn’t do the same they did contribute freely to Crossover by making Game Porting Toolkit free to use, making it possible to play the latest Windows games with D3DMetal in Crossover. On Steam Deck it’s the developers who spend time, effort and money to make sure their games are compatible. On Mac it’s Codeweavers themselves who test different games together with the community and update the compatibility and include new versions of Apple Game Porting Toolkit. It’s the same job done by different people. Steam Deck owners enjoy it for free while Mac owners pay for it. In other words Mac owners contribute more to the Wine community and the development by paying for Crossover.

Spending the time and money doesn’t result in many extra sales for the developers/publishers. ”Doing Steam Deck, on paper, is not something that equates to a huge amount of extra sales, like doing a Switch version, for instance. But what it does – I hope – is to clearly communicate to our Steam players, and Valve, that we mean business.”, according to Lavapotion, developer of the newly released Songs of Conquest. Interestingly enough at the same time they did also a Mac port which shows the Mac port is more than a statement and as the article says it’s more challenging to make a Steam Deck version than a Mac version because of the Deck’s limitations.

I just checked the Top 100 list of popular games on ProtonDB and about 79 of them either have native Mac port or run well in Crossover which is not surprising considering the many similarities between Proton and Crossover.

Again game release lists as Polygon’s can be deceiving and don’t paint the full picture. Most Mac gamers know that Mac games often are ported later or much later than the first PC releases. Many times they’re not even announced until a few weeks before the release. Such lists have been used before in this forum as proof. There was a long list two years ago with games like Frostpunk 2, Path of Exile 2, Kerbal Space 2, Hades 2 and Grid Legends as examples of games not coming to Mac. All those mentioned games are now coming to Mac. Even Polygon’s list which was updated in April lists Frostpunk 2 as PC only but 11 bit Studios just announced on May 17 a Mac port is coming to Mac App Store.

The bottom line is that Steam Deck is not more dominant than Mac in anyway today, neither by the number of players nor the number of compatible games. Most AAA Windows games that can be played on Steam Deck can be played on Mac, all with the help of Wine.

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I suspect the Steam numbers have changed for a number of reasons.

macOS Catalina stopped all of the 32-bit Mac games from working.

The Mac App Store has had exclusives that haven't made their way to Steam.

Some people don't choose to go to their Mac first and choose their Steam Deck or Windows when playing games on Steam.

There doesn't seem to be a way to have alternative storage locations on Mac, so running out of room with a big library is a problem. On Windows and Steam Deck, I don't have to have games in a single location.

I always try to make sure that there is a Mac version but what I want doesn't often have a Mac version. I don't buy games simply to have Mac games.

Valve has done an amazing job making Linux a reality for gaming. It's unfortunate that Apple and Valve just can't get along.
 
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I guess that I have worked for several of the exceptions.
I've worked for non profits and for profits and sadly they both seem to operate the same way. I've been living with 2% raises for nearly a decade. All the while the C level executives reap huge bonuses and rewards.

I tend to look at it as Apple viewing it as the gaming boat has sailed, outside of iOS.
I'd agree with that sentiment, but I'll also add that I think gaming in general is changing. I can see streaming and steam deck like products getting more and more popular.
 
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There doesn't seem to be a way to have alternative storage locations on Mac, so running out of room with a big library is a problem. On Windows and Steam Deck, I don't have to have games in a single location.

That sounds odd. With Steam on Mac you can choose any external storage you like for your game library. Even Crossover now have full support for external storage so you can have both the app itself and the Wine bottles on an external drive. It's only Mac App Store that is crippled in that way. Even with MAS you can move your game like Resident Evil to an external drive and play as normal. Only if you have to update the game you have to move it back to the internal drive.
 
That sounds odd. With Steam on Mac you can choose any external storage you like for your game library. Even Crossover now have full support for external storage so you can have both the app itself and the Wine bottles on an external drive. It's only Mac App Store that is crippled in that way. Even with MAS you can move your game like Resident Evil to an external drive and play as normal. Only if you have to update the game you have to move it back to the internal drive.
Bolding is me. That is dumb. Can the Mac App Store not find the package on external drives?
 
Bolding is me. That is dumb. Can the Mac App Store not find the package on external drives?

No! I tried Resident Evil 4 shortly on an external drive and it worked but App Store couldn't find it on my internal so it wanted to download it again when it was time for an update. I don't know if other features like iCloud saving work when you move a MAS game to external drive. I haven't tested.
 
No! I tried Resident Evil 4 shortly on an external drive and it worked but App Store couldn't find it on my internal so it wanted to download it again when it was time for an update. I don't know if other features like iCloud saving work when you move a MAS game to external drive. I haven't tested.
Seems shortsighted of Apple to not allow Apps to exist on external storage and still be updated.
Or more cynically, Apple is using this as a means to get folks to not purchase base storage since it stops being easy to manage.
 
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Seems shortsighted of Apple to not allow Apps to exist on external storage and still be updated.
Or more cynically, Apple is using this as a means to get folks to not purchase base storage since it stops being easy to manage.
Based on the download manager and speeds provided by the MAS, I don't think Apple was anticipating apps bigger than like a gig. Definitely not 40+ GB games.
 
I'd agree with that sentiment, but I'll also add that I think gaming in general is changing. I can see streaming and steam deck like products getting more and more popular.

The Steam Deck has really been a game changer for me. The main reason I bought it was to take my emulation collection on the road (this was before Apple opened up emulation on iOS), but it did such a good job with my Steam library that I decided to give Linux gaming a try on my desktop PC. The conventional wisdom was that Linux isn't great with Nvidia hardware, but my 4070 has been chewing through everything just fine. I'm sure I'm giving up some FPS behind the scenes, but I game at 1440p anyway so that ends up being a non-issue.

So then the question becomes, why the heck am I still running Windows? Microsoft seems fine with letting me continue to use the Windows 7 product code from a long ago Haswell build, but with all the ads and AI junk they keep layering onto 11, I think it might be time to finally make the switch. And it was my Steam Deck that made me realize it might not be as painful as I imagined it'd be.
 
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seems fine with letting me continue to use the Windows 7 product code from a long ago Haswell build,
I heard that is coming to an end, though you can buy a product key fairly cheaply so that's a non-issue to me

As for why use windows, if your only use case was for gaming, I'd agree.
 
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