Garmin 965 and Ultra 2 Trail Runner update

[kecinzer]

The Ultra battery is rated for 36 hours. That’s 1.5 days.

Sometimes I think Ultra owners think 36 hours is more than just a day and a half

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't know what is your point. I already wrote all my points to this. I know what is 36 hours and as I already wrote, that almost all first year I charged only once a day.
There is no more discussion. Everyone has different priorities. Enjoy your Apple Watch as I enjoying my Epix Pro 😄.

 

[Zelegorm]

When I am using the epix pro I am always feeling back to 1980s 😂

 

[NME42]

When I am using the epix pro I am always feeling back to 1980s 😂

Just with less battery life. My Timex Ironman had one or two years battery life.

 

[rbart]

It depends on priorities.
If a huge battery life is important, Apple can’t fight against pure sport watches.
But battery is not the only criteria, otherwise no one would buy an AW.
In real life, we see a lot of people switching periodically between AW and pure sport watches.

For me having cellular connectivity, apps choice, nice UI are very important.
On the other hand, I regret Apple don’t put more effort to have a more « competitive « ecosystem for enthusiast runners.
Battery life is secondary since I have an AWU2. My watch lasts way more than me as I don’t run more than 8 hours …

 

[xDKP]

It depends on priorities.
If a huge battery life is important, Apple can’t fight against pure sport watches.
But battery is not the only criteria, otherwise no one would buy an AW.
In real life, we see a lot of people switching periodically between AW and pure sport watches.

For me having cellular connectivity, apps choice, nice UI are very important.
On the other hand, I regret Apple don’t put more effort to have a more « competitive « ecosystem for enthusiast runners.
Battery life is secondary since I have an AWU2. My watch lasts way more than me as I don’t run more than 8 hours …

Agree completely - The Apple Watch has the full ecosystem very tightly build in. They could focus more on battery though - the latest brightness increase on the Ultra 2 was not asked by anyone - could have kept it low and stretched out the battery.

Hope this year will be a big jump with Ultra 3, but not really holding my breath

 

[rbart]

I don't think they will give more focus on battery life.
It's more than enough for AW target users (who are not Ultra trailers).
We can't compare the OS and power computing of an AW and a pure sport watch.
The cost of this power and flexibility is that the watch never sleeps or "do almost nothing", it constantly runs a complex OS, complex apps, complex tasks, communicate tightly with the iPhone.
It's absolutely not comparable to what a GPS sport watch does.
It's like comparing a smartphone to a "dumb" phone.

 

[kecinzer]

I don't think they will give more focus on battery life.
It's more than enough for AW target users (who are not Ultra trailers).
We can't compare the OS and power computing of an AW and a pure sport watch.
The cost of this power and flexibility is that the watch never sleeps or "do almost nothing", it constantly runs a complex OS, complex apps, complex tasks, communicate tightly with the iPhone.
It's absolutely not comparable to what a GPS sport watch does.
It's like comparing a smartphone to a "dumb" phone.

It's not that black & white imho. Yes AW is the best smart watch, but Garmin has also some smart function that are acceptable for most users.
As long AW user (since 2015), I can't imagine that I switch to Garmin, but now, every day I like Garmin more and more. Yes, there are many details that I miss (few examples: focus mode set from watch, notifications customization, LTE, Apple Pay), but there are workarounds.
I thought that it's OK to have all day battery life and charging 1,5 hours per day is OK. But now, when I charging every 10 days, I very quickly used to it. I don't care about charger, when I sleep out of home unplanned. It gives me more freedom.
Health metrics and its representation is unbeatable. Motivation with badges and Garmin community is other big thing for me.
Apple should focus for improve rings system, motivation and competition with others.

! It is only my subjective view and don't force to use Garmin anyone !

 

[rbart]

I was not saying Garmin is crap, just explaining the different approach.
A Garmin is basically a sport watch with some push notifications.
The OS and APIs, don't offer the same possibilities to developers.
To be more clear, if Apple wants to create the same apps and ecosystem, it's possible, it's just software development.
If Garmin wants to have the same features, UI, APIs as AW, it's impossible. Because hardware power of a Garmin is just a small fraction of what's available on an AW (which is basically a small iPhone).
This power has a cost: battery consumption.

 

[NME42]

My routine to charge my U2 is after I went running and during I take a shower. Brings enough juice so that I can wear the U2 almost 24/7.

Was more bothered charging my Garmin Forerunners with these strange (and error prone) cables and connectors when I had them.
I would never go back to Garmin, would miss too many things and would loathe the software quality.

 

[kecinzer]

I was not saying Garmin is crap, just explaining the different approach.
A Garmin is basically a sport watch with some push notifications.
The OS and APIs, don't offer the same possibilities to developers.
To be more clear, if Apple wants to create the same apps and ecosystem, it's possible, it's just software development.
If Garmin wants to have the same features, UI, APIs as AW, it's impossible. Because hardware power of a Garmin is just a small fraction of what's available on an AW (which is basically a small iPhone).
This power has a cost: battery consumption.

Yes, totally agree. Apple has all the benefits, all data, but they not utilizing it like they could.
I personaly used 2-5 apps on Apple Watch, sometimes I answer call and use LTE. Other features I didn't use or only several times.
I sold my AWU1 with 89% battery health to my friend. He not have any activity, using only smart features and battery stays 3 days for him (I don't understand, why for me it drains so much).

My routine to charge my U2 is after I went running and during I take a shower. Brings enough juice so that I can wear the U2 almost 24/7.

Was more bothered charging my Garmin Forerunners with these strange (and error prone) cables and connectors when I had them.
I would never go back to Garmin, would miss too many things and would loathe the software quality.

It's funny. I have completely different experience. I like Garmin cable charging. I can put in and manipulate with watches without bothering that mag charger will fall down. And charging speed is also much better.

 

[rbart]

One thing is sure, your AWU had a software issue.
It looks impossible for me to imagine it lasts less than one day.

 

[xDKP]

I don't think they will give more focus on battery life.
It's more than enough for AW target users (who are not Ultra trailers).
We can't compare the OS and power computing of an AW and a pure sport watch.
The cost of this power and flexibility is that the watch never sleeps or "do almost nothing", it constantly runs a complex OS, complex apps, complex tasks, communicate tightly with the iPhone.
It's absolutely not comparable to what a GPS sport watch does.
It's like comparing a smartphone to a "dumb" phone.

When it's brand spanking new, no it might not be an issue. Got my Ultra 1 in January 2023 and on WatchOS 9 when new it had two day battery life with an hour run a day.

Fast forward and now a year and some months later, it's basically a one day battery.

So yes - it's "more than enough" when new, but the Ultra should be able to have better battery life for longer. So if they could start out with 3-4 days it would be great

 

[quarq]

I'd be lying if I said I don't often look at what Garmin or Suunto have to offer and marvel at their battery life.

But then I realize that if I got one, I'd have to bring my phone on all my runs. Hell, I hate bringing my house keys on my run let alone a phone. ;-)

I run about 80km a week, ramping up to 100-120km's.. My watch wakes me up, I throw it on the charger as I get ready.. It's good to go by the time I am ready.

From my UW, I have called a cab when I got injured, paid for it.. buy ingredients for my recovery drink after my run.. choose whichever streaming music provider I want and any playlist without having to download or manage anything... pairs perfectly with my AirPods..

I guess most reviewers are just used to bringing their phones. But I find this advantage really gets lost when people talk of UW vs Garmin.

 

[kecinzer]

When it's brand spanking new, no it might not be an issue. Got my Ultra 1 in January 2023 and on WatchOS 9 when new it had two day battery life with an hour run a day.

Fast forward and now a year and some months later, it's basically a one day battery.

So yes - it's "more than enough" when new, but the Ultra should be able to have better battery life for longer. So if they could start out with 3-4 days it would be great

Yes, that is exactly my situation.

I'd be lying if I said I don't often look at what Garmin or Suunto have to offer and marvel at their battery life.

But then I realize that if I got one, I'd have to bring my phone on all my runs. Hell, I hate bringing my house keys on my run let alone a phone. ;-)

I run about 80km a week, ramping up to 100-120km's.. My watch wakes me up, I throw it on the charger as I get ready.. It's good to go by the time I am ready.

From my UW, I have called a cab when I got injured, paid for it.. buy ingredients for my recovery drink after my run.. choose whichever streaming music provider I want and any playlist without having to download or manage anything... pairs perfectly with my AirPods..

I guess most reviewers are just used to bringing their phones. But I find this advantage really gets lost when people talk of UW vs Garmin.

I understand, but my AirPodsPro works perfectly well with Garmin. I can upload music as well and have great podcast app.
But yes, AW with LTE is much better. On Garmin Apple Music dont work.
In other point of view Apple Podcasts on Watch is terrible. I cant sort my list - it works in strange way.

I used to run without phone, but I get great belt for it and now I dont have single problem. I also start running with HRM Pro Plus.

 

[rbart]

Apple Pay, Watchla to open / drive my car.
LTE in case of emergency …
It’s so hard to leave that an carry an iPhone just for that.
But, of course I am not running 180km ultra or Ironman, my current limit is marathon or 50k trail
So the batty is enough for me and the ultra brought me the main missing feature for intervals running : the action button.
I know that Garmin are better running watches, I have owned one and I know I will quickly regret my AWU if I switch to Garmin or Coros, polar or other

 

[PatrickNSF]

It's not that black & white imho. Yes AW is the best smart watch, but Garmin has also some smart function that are acceptable for most users.
As long AW user (since 2015), I can't imagine that I switch to Garmin, but now, every day I like Garmin more and more. Yes, there are many details that I miss (few examples: focus mode set from watch, notifications customization, LTE, Apple Pay), but there are workarounds.

I'm a marathoner and have had an AW since the initial launch (and kept a Garmin), and I've occasionally switched back to Garmin full-time in an effort to simplify my gadgets. I've also tried to switch to my AW (now an Ultra) full-time.

Inevitably I end up back using my AW for day-to-day use, and my Garmin for running and cycling workouts (and terrible sleep tracking just to get the HRV data for the training data). I also like seeing Garmin's suggested workouts when I have races on my training calendar. I never follow them exactly, but they've been helpful in curbing my tendency to overtrain.

 

[NME42]

I know that Garmin are better running watches, I have owned one and I know I will quickly regret my AWU if I switch to Garmin or Coros, polar or other

I had Garmins since the 910XT and am not so sure about your statement. Ok, let alone the battery topic, we discussed that.

Also, I absolutely hate taking my iPhone on a run with me and I do not like wearing running belts. When I cycle, I do not care having an iPhone in my jersey.

 

[rbart]

Maybe they are better sport watch because of physical buttons, more metrics and more "power runner" ecosystem ?

But to be honest, I am fed up of useless metrics, when I run, I only need distance, pace, altimeter, time and current segment data.
Who cares about power, zones, ground contact time, vertical oscillation, recovery metrics...
We are running, not going to Mars ...
As a running app developer, I am facing a lot of very specific request. I can't understand how people are able to run, listen to their feelings with so many metrics, so many notifications.
Sometimes, I run with people who have alerts for speed, heart rate, eat, drink ...
So boring ...
I am sure elite runners don't care about that and rely more on their feelings

 

[NME42]

Maybe they are better sport watch because of physical buttons, more metrics and more "power runner" ecosystem ?

Since Ultra brought the Action button, I see no reason for any additional button, frankly. Especially when you have a crown.
I can use my Ultra entirely without touch screen during a run.

The rest is only software. No hardware limitations.

 

[rbart]

Since Ultra brought the Action button, I see no reason for any additional button, frankly. Especially when you have a crown.
I can use my Ultra entirely without touch screen during a run.

The rest is only software. No hardware limitations.

I agree with you, but I can understand it's not enough for some people.

 

[NME42]

I agree with you, but I can understand it's not enough for some people.

Maybe. But I have also experienced how bad the UX is on Garmins. Moving/zooming maps is a real pain with the buttons.
I know, newer models have touch screens but no crown.

 

[jenkens]

Love the conversation. I always wondered what the deal was with watches and working out, maps and other things. I love Apple integration and apps and also FOSS ethos and extreme privacy knowledge and best practices. I don’t do any best practices, just have curiosity and love learning more. I mostly use Garmin in car for driving because it uses satellite which I think has less tracking than phones with cellular and WiFi triangulation.
But also had some failures with both Garmin and TomTom in car and had to switch to iPhone at times. TomTom failure was my lack of patience with the UI which is a bit old fashioned and has a manual day/night input that I forgot about after months of not using. I left it on night mode and couldn’t see it during the day and didn’t understand why I couldn’t see anything. I think the Garmin switches itself automatically. I used to workout 2 hours a day but in one location so no map needed. Also developed sense of body through meditation type of workout. Not saying I knew all AW metrics about my body, just just focused on learning through direct experience and focused more on that.
Now developing interest in learning technology, smart watches, GPS tracking for logging movements in woods and on water. I have a mild interest in learning over time because I have several other projects and not bandwidth for too much smart watch and phone.
Curious if anyone is interested in data privacy as a hobby and for basic knowledge and data sharing hygiene? Anyone interested in Little Snitch app or is that redundant with apple settings that allow turning off tracking? Or is anyone interested in this?

 

[xDKP]

Since Ultra brought the Action button, I see no reason for any additional button, frankly. Especially when you have a crown.
I can use my Ultra entirely without touch screen during a run.

The rest is only software. No hardware limitations.

Agree the Action Button was the last piece - now I can water lock the display if it's raining and press the action button to start open run, and again when GPS has locked. And both buttons to pause when finished and go back inside. Game changer for the AW.

Heard a guy saying, that the fact he had to press action+side button to pause the workout, was a deal breaker. So can't please every one

 

[Zelegorm]

The Apple Watch Ultra has buttons and you can start / stop / lap without touch. That’s not an issue. But I will bring in one more thing: data privacy. I will never trust garmin with my health data

 

[rbart]

I know data privacy is important (my own app is built on this assumption), but the first thing people do after finishing a run is to share it on Strava or other social network…
😉