Agreed on focusing on something else for myself. Thanks for the reminder.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Geekbench score for the Intel i9-13900K is out and it’s not looking pretty for Apple …
- Thread starter Retskrad
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Agreed on focusing on something else for myself. Thanks for the reminder.
From the perspective of an old-school Mac user who now has an M1 MBA, as well as someone who's daily driver is Linux, I can tell you folks the trend is towards ARM-based CPUs, no matter how much noise Intel and AMD keep making about x86-64. Not that it's a bad thing: competition is a good thing. However, there's a LOT of effort right now getting Linux fully ported for ARM, and even (especially?) for Apple's M-series. Heck, Microsoft is working towards an ARM release of Windows.
MS has an ARM release of Windows, that isn't the problem. Lack of native applications is the problem. They don't have the pull like Apple does to get companies to make ARM native apps. And their ARM Translation layer is slower than Apples.
Everyone is going to have things that are more important to them. You have to weigh the differences, do you want a smoother experience when working with the file, which in turn saves time, or is the saving in encoding and rendering worth more then the time saved when working fluidly with little to no lag.
I actually still think, in the Notebook sector: Intel 13th Gen won't even be able to beat M1 series of chips, as even 12th Gen is FAR behind. Let me explain:
Apple Silicon was never about the best Benchmark numbers. They are simply that good engineering-wise, that the high raw CPU-Performance is basicly just a side effect.
It's the efficiency. And i do NOT mean "Benchmark points per tdp-watt". A Ryzen 6800H capped at 15w won't lose against a 15 capped M1 when doing Cinebench Runs.
Apple Silicon, when actually performing real world Tasks, the Powerconsumption stays extremely low. On my M1, i can run Windows 11 in Parallels, and in Idle it still consumes less than any Intel Chip in Idle when doing nothing.
When "calculating" a Zoom Conference, M1 chip's Power consumpion only increases by a lower %-difference, than x86 Chips. Especially, since Intel Chips boost into Nirvana for every little Mouse movement.
That's why Apple Silicon Macbooks can do the same Work, the same Tasks, while having almost no power consumption, almost no hat generation, and basicly no Fan Noise needed at all.
To perform a Task, Apple silicon seems to just consume as much power, as it needs to do the job. While Intel boosts to maximum 110% boost speed for doing any little thing.
In my Opinion, THIS is the Standard, that Intel and AMD needs to hit. Not yet another Benchmark number e-penis crown, just because the Notebook-CPU consumes 130 Watt, and the battery is empty after 4 hours of Websurfing while beeing Loud.
Not really, Apple’s challenge from here to when they stop making Macs is make sure that each successive Mac is faster than the prior generation. The server market sales wouldn’t even be worth the effort put into creating them. Better to work on the core consumer market providing solutions the competition can’t touch. (Their business practices won’t allow them to.)
Completely agree having used the M1 and the M1 Pro for the last couple of years, it is insane the amount of power wattage usage when running VMs, Teams calls (which keeps improving with every build) and same for external displays not using 20-27w on the GPU alone when connected to dual 4K Displays with my 16" 2019.
I sold my 16" 2019 after running a couple of tests in 2020 with my M1 Air, because the power usage is insane.
If you use the Low Power Mode you can even further reduce even more the usage....
Why do so many people focus on Intel? The Ryzen 7 6800U is the closest PC CPU to the M2. Although it uses a worse node and is smaller, it outperforms the M2 in some tasks.
Apple M2 SOC Beats AMD Ryzen 7 6800U's RDNA 2 iGPU In Shadow of The Tomb Raider But Loses In CPU Benchmarks
Apple's M2 SOC has been tested against a vast variety of AMD & Intel CPUs, showcasing its gaming & application performance potential.
wccftech.com
It outperforms M2 exactly where all other x86 CPUs outperform Apple Silicon - in Cinebench (a SIMD benchmark that maximally favors modern x86 CPUs and uses a SIMD ISA emulation layer on ARM) and in some other tests that measure SIMD throughout. While consuming more power.
I don’t disagree that 6800U is the closest CPU to M1, simply because AMD did some very good work on their power efficiency. But that’s about it, at least for now.
Microsoft is working towards implies that this is some very recent spurt of nacent effort.
Windows 10 on Arm product was introduced in 2017
Always Connected PCs enable a new culture of work
New devices from HP and ASUS are instantly on, always connected with incredible battery life
blogs.windows.com
That is three years before Apple shipped their product.
Windows 11 on Snapdragon 8cx gen 3 ( third iteration ) is perhaps in the "working towards release" stage.
Similar with Linux on ARM in server space. There are more packages in the "hurry up, you are late to the party" phase of being ported, but the ground work as all laid down 4+ years ago. By 2019 there were already "repurposed boards" as workstation versions
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15165/arm-server-cpus-you-can-now-buy-amperes-emag-in-a-workstation
But scaled deployed servers were already in flight by that point. AWS introduced ARM "Neoverse" instances in 2018 for production work in 2018.
https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2018/11/introducing-amazon-ec2-a1-instances/
( those were the first "big push to deployment" generation . Similarly, Amazon now at Graviton 3 (3rd gen) stage.
https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/graviton/ )
Again before Apple made their moves.
Arm Linux in a Virtual Machine on a M1 system helps 'democratize' the Linux development; more affordable hardware "seats". ( $3K workstation versus $999 MBA ). What Windows has had wasn't very good at running a Linux VM host and other development tools . That should even out once the 8cx gen 3 systems arrive in volume (next couple of quarters). The Arm Macs are helping the activity that was already in motion on Linux/Windows to move faster where for smaller budget development teams. It is pushing those ARM ecosystems to evolve faster. But they were making steady progress before Apple showed up. And would being increasing the pace even if Apple had not. (it is incrementally faster with Apple there.)
AMD's "Bergamo" server offering in 2023 is suppose to be a more direct response to the ARM server chip competition.
Apple has a node advantage. A fairer comparison would be M2 versus AMD's upcoming CPU for ultralaptops, as both would use a similar TSMC node.
Ubuntu can run on ARM since 2012.
Canonical Success at Computex | Ubuntu
We’ve been extremely busy at Computex, with over 1,000 people visiting the Ubuntu booth, and over 25 media interviews about Ubuntu for Android, Ubuntu Cloud and Ubuntu TV. One of the highlights so far was ARM’s Ian Ferguson, director of server systems and our very own Mark Shuttleworth...
ubuntu.com
6800U scores up to 1400-1500 on GB5 using around 10W in single core. M1 scores 1700 using 5W. Are you suggesting that going from 6nm to 5nm AMD will manage to improve their power efficiency by over a factor of two?
Maybe even better to compare it to AMD stuff in 2024 lol… You compare what is AVAILABLE on the market NOW. Node advantage blame AMD for that.Apple has a node advantage. A fairer comparison would be M2 versus AMD's upcoming CPU for ultralaptops, as both would use a similar TSMC node.
Ubuntu can run on ARM since 2012.
Canonical Success at Computex | Ubuntu
We’ve been extremely busy at Computex, with over 1,000 people visiting the Ubuntu booth, and over 25 media interviews about Ubuntu for Android, Ubuntu Cloud and Ubuntu TV. One of the highlights so far was ARM’s Ian Ferguson, director of server systems and our very own Mark Shuttleworth...
Even if they could I suspect AMD would trade some it for clock speed. As it is I don't think they could gain that much from shrinking the process node, at least not at the clocks they run at.
No. Only that the comparison between M2 and Phoenix would be fairer and would show clearly the advantage of Apple ARM over x86 without the node advantage.
Out of curiosity, where did you get the consumption values from?
We only need to wait six months. Then, we will be able to compare the best CPU for ultralaptops from AMD and Apple.
Testing done by notebookcheck comparing Zen3+, M1 and ADL-P. They measured 9-10W in single-core Cinebench for 6800U, I figured other single-core tasks will show similar figures.
Note that Zen3+ efficiency dramatically improves in multi-core throughput, which is achieved by significantly lowering the per-core power consumption. For multicore it’s in the ballpark of Intels E-cores while still delivering very respectable performance.
Posts like this are, it seems to me, cries for attention more than anything else
Going to replace my 2018 i5 mac mini DAW with a 13th gen i5. This could be my last intel desktop cpu. Intel just can't keep going on like this unless they really sort out the power consumption. Even PCI gen 5 SSD's need fans now 🤣
It is looking like ARM cpu's are the future, looking forward to see what apple does over the next few years. Who knows maybe Apple's M25 ultra will need a power station to run too. 🤣
It is looking like ARM cpu's are the future, looking forward to see what apple does over the next few years. Who knows maybe Apple's M25 ultra will need a power station to run too. 🤣
So let me get this straight, a chip that isn't out yet, that is meant for desktops, and Geekbench taken down due to concerns about legitimacy and Apple needs to be worried? Ok.
Google still has not made an Google Chrome ARM app for windows yet but has for macOS. Apple's move to ARM is something that Qualcomm's CEO said had a major effect on the industry taking ARM seriously.
Microsofts Dev tools like Visual Studio did not ARM native till this year in 2022. MS waited 5 years to port VS to ARM. Really bad outlook.
I could tell that the first WoA devices were utter trash compared to x86 counterparts. Apple did a way better launch than 2017 Microsoft ARM devices with their M1. Being first does not mean anything, it's who does it best.
That SoC is not good when compared to Intel 12th gen, AMD's Zen 3+ and M2. Qualcomm chips won't be good until Nuvia's chips come out from them.
Apple still has to add many things to their chips. More cores and RT and AV1, WiFi 6E etc.. Apple chips are also not perfect.
It would be interesting to see if Apple can effectively change the rules of the PC game by getting consumers to care about features beyond simply performance and benchmarks. I believe Linus recently covered a small PC desktop from HP and the conclusion was that it throttled way too quickly to be of any real use given what you paid for it.
I think Apple has a unique value proposition with the Mac Studio offering great sustained performance while being small enough to tuck under your monitor, quiet and sips relatively little power to boot.
Intel can only compete based on raw performance, and even the gains aren’t as significant as clickbait titles would have you believe.
I think Apple has a unique value proposition with the Mac Studio offering great sustained performance while being small enough to tuck under your monitor, quiet and sips relatively little power to boot.
Intel can only compete based on raw performance, and even the gains aren’t as significant as clickbait titles would have you believe.
According to this it's already happening:
Gartner: Apple M2 chips will hit Microsoft's Windows market share
Gartner: Apple M2 chips will hit Microsoft's Windows market share. Microsoft's business in the operating system market is in danger.
www.gizchina.com
Though they do make the interesting point that many consumers simply buy what's familiar, and what determines the latter is often what they use at work. Windows still dominates there, and I don't know if Apple is doing much to try to penetrate the enterprise market.