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liptonlover

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2008
989
0
First Person Shooters are a tricky thing for Multi-Touch. I worked out a basic set of controls for RPGs like WoW, but FPSs are very different.

I think I'm getting there though. I'm currently working on a Multi-Touch Keynote video, so after that I'll try to show some of my ideas for Multi-Touch RPGs and FPSs.

If done right I could see FPSs working very well on 13in+ size displays. Not just on small handheld devices. I have found that the iPod Touch FPSs aren't as fun because the screen is too small. 13in+ displays would provide more room for your fingers to work.

One of the most important aspects of a tablet is how it will be held/propped up. That matters a lot when deciding how to use it. So how do you plan on your tablet being held? With the iPhone you can hold it like a traditional mobile console, only instead of hard buttons you have virtual buttons on the sides of the screen. But I can't see someone holding their tablet like that, playing an fps.

One particular reason I don't think a true fps like halo, battlefield, etc. would work is because multi-touch just doesn't offer a viable way for accurate yet quick aiming. iFPS on the iPhone is very fun, but the shots have splash damage because you just can't aim all that well.

Cube for iPhone has a decent aiming mechanism, where you can tap in a small area around the crosshair to aim right there. That works, but to do that they had to substitute a dpad with creative but mostly unusable accelerometer controls. A bigger screen MIGHT solve that problem though.

Anyways, I'm really interested to see what you've come up with.
Nate
 

lookoverthere

macrumors member
Original poster
May 22, 2009
31
0
Atlanta, GA
One of the most important aspects of a tablet is how it will be held/propped up. That matters a lot when deciding how to use it. So how do you plan on your tablet being held? With the iPhone you can hold it like a traditional mobile console, only instead of hard buttons you have virtual buttons on the sides of the screen. But I can't see someone holding their tablet like that, playing an fps...

I haven't found anyway around it. The device (I'll just call it Slate from now on) would have to sit flat on a table or slightly slanted toward the player. You could move or aim with one hand, but not both with the designs I have so far.

I have two different designs in the works right now. They're hard to explain, so I hope to get that video out soon so I can show them. Overall, I'm trying to avoid virtual buttons with FPS travel and aiming controls.

Much thanks! :apple:
 

mrboult

macrumors 6502
Jul 29, 2008
406
91
London, England
Amazing! Some really nice ideas (and videos).

Love your answers to some of the multi-touch gestures (moving a window from one space to another was a particular highlight). Some very intuitive thinking, some very Apple thinking for that matter.

More power to you!
 

decksnap

macrumors 68040
Apr 11, 2003
3,075
84
I'm only partly into the third video so far, but I have one question.
One of your goals is to make the most of the screen real estate available, right? So why move the application menus, usually using the otherwise blank space in the menu bar, to the top right corner of the application window? Not only is that a way to waste space, it also requires one more tap to get to a given item because you have to tap just to open the list of menus.

I agree. I would revisit this one. Whether or not the input device is a mouse pointer or a finger (or two fingers), this isn't better than the existing method.
 

lookoverthere

macrumors member
Original poster
May 22, 2009
31
0
Atlanta, GA
One more time :)

I agree. I would revisit this one. Whether or not the input device is a mouse pointer or a finger (or two fingers), this isn't better than the existing method.

Well, I answered this question in the 8th post. But here it is again:

...Unlike a keyboard and mouse, which is limited to one window at a time, a Multi-Touch computer would be capable of allowing a person (or multiple persons) to controls several windows simultaneously. At this point the concept of the "On Top" or Active Application disappears. Who would get the menu bar when there are two different windows from two different apps being used? I moved the Menus to the window so that every window is its own self sufficient island. The Menu Bar at the top of the screen is now the Command Bar. The Command Bar simply controls Slate and everything on the screen. The Command Bar adapts to the four user environments: 1) The Desktop. 2) Full Screen Apps (where the menu does return to the top because that window is now the focus). 3) Split Screen Mode (which is really just a way to tile selected windows on the screen). 4) Tabletops (Tabletops are really cool. They are an adaptive environment meant for viewing various files and/or allowing for easy Multi-User access on very large displays. Imagine iPhoto using this environment for a Light Table). So with all the different ways you can interact with and view your apps and files it made sense to me to limit the Command Bar to controlling the environment using the screen instead of the individual apps...

Was there a concern about this post that I didn't address?

Multi-Touch offers the ability to convey a great deal of information to the computer. Every square millimeter of the display is a source of input. This allows for a great deal of simultaneous activity resulting in advanced controls, simultaneous work, and multiple users.

When you can use multiple windows from multiple apps the menu bar (as it is now) would really become an obstruction to your work flow.

Thanks! :apple:
 

lookoverthere

macrumors member
Original poster
May 22, 2009
31
0
Atlanta, GA
Much thanks

Amazing! Some really nice ideas (and videos).

Love your answers to some of the multi-touch gestures (moving a window from one space to another was a particular highlight). Some very intuitive thinking, some very Apple thinking for that matter.

More power to you!

Thank you! I greatly appreciate your comments. :apple:
 

lookoverthere

macrumors member
Original poster
May 22, 2009
31
0
Atlanta, GA
oh yeah.

are you working on any more videos or anything? just curious

yep. I've got four in the works at the moment. I'm not sure when I'll be done with them. Two of them deal with Multi-Touch gaming and I'm having a difficult time getting them to look right. But, hopefully soon :) :apple:
 

thegoldenmackid

macrumors 604
Dec 29, 2006
7,770
6
dallas, texas
Cool concept...

Your YouTube profile says you are thirty-three. What are you studying in school? I hope your multi-touch desires are not keeping you in school...
 

almond

macrumors newbie
Mar 11, 2009
15
0
This is sexy as hell, and realistic, too. I'd buy it in a second. What I love about this is how it seems to work despite very few major changes to the OS X interface. Almost as if Apple's been planning something like this all along. Hmmmm......... :p

There are only a few things I dislike about this:
- The variable size keyboard. I have a hard enough time switching from portrait to landscape on my iPod Touch, let alone using an arbitrarily-sized keyboard with no tactile feedback.
That said, I presume I'd be able to plug in an external keyboard for typing longer documents, and stick with the onscreen keyboard for short, quick text entry.
- The size. Large surfaces are fantastic for many reasons (and the interface shown here would only get better as the surface got larger), but they're not very portable. You'd still need a backpack to transport that thing around. I'd love something the size of a novel or a notebook that I can just throw in a small bag. Big enough to read text and write notes, but small enough to be portable.

Anyway, thanks for spending all that time indoors making sweet tablet videos. At least I'll have something to look at every time Apple doesn't announce a tablet now....
 

liptonlover

macrumors 6502a
Mar 13, 2008
989
0
I was just thinking about touchscreens with tactile responses myself... what's the basics behind the current technology and how do they feel? I've never used one.

Anyways, this may be too sci-fi for modern tech but what about a flexible keyboard that gives way a little bit when you tap the screen, but only in that spot so you create a little temporary dent. Nothing like the whole screen moving at once though. It could potentially have nearly the feeling of typing on a keyboard. Just an idea though.

Nate
 

lookoverthere

macrumors member
Original poster
May 22, 2009
31
0
Atlanta, GA
time marches on...

Cool concept...

Your YouTube profile says you are thirty-three. What are you studying in school? I hope your multi-touch desires are not keeping you in school...


Actually I'm 27. I put Apple's birthday as my own. I'm not sure why. And I can't figure out how to change it.

I'm in a transition period right now with school. I was a Neuroscience grad student. But, I have been increasingly growing displeased with the over-specialization found in research science today. I prefer a big picture perspective and think-tank approaches. So, I'm switching majors to a field that will give me that kind of research freedom.

Thanks! :apple:
 

lookoverthere

macrumors member
Original poster
May 22, 2009
31
0
Atlanta, GA
Lock the doors!

Are you gonna go to Cupertino and deliver the concepts personally?

I doubt they'd let me through the door. There are two issues here: 1) is my idea really that good? 2) Even if it is, will the people over in Cupertino see it as such?

I think I remember a quote from Steve Jobs where he said that he never wanted to overlook the next big idea just because it came from a nobody. Apple started as two "nobodies" with an idea. Little did anyone know that these two guys would change the world. However, after changing the world people tend to lose their perspective on "nobodies" with great ideas.

If you really think my idea has merit then get all your friends to watch and share the videos I made. Apple can easily ignore me, but they can't ignore the masses.

Thanks :apple:
 

lookoverthere

macrumors member
Original poster
May 22, 2009
31
0
Atlanta, GA
Yeah Baby Yeah

This is sexy as hell, and realistic, too. I'd buy it in a second. What I love about this is how it seems to work despite very few major changes to the OS X interface. Almost as if Apple's been planning something like this all along. Hmmmm......... :p
Thanks.

Yeah there are many features to OS X that transcend the keyboard-mouse interface. The Dock for instance. Snow Leopard's Dock with built-in Expose would work great on a Multi-Touch computer.

The main changes are in the behavior of the OS elements, not necessarily the look.

There are only a few things I dislike about this:
- The variable size keyboard. I have a hard enough time switching from portrait to landscape on my iPod Touch, let alone using an arbitrarily-sized keyboard with no tactile feedback.
That said, I presume I'd be able to plug in an external keyboard for typing longer documents, and stick with the onscreen keyboard for short, quick text entry.
If Multi-Touch is done right, typing wouldn't be hard at all. The main problem I have with my iPod Touch is that the keyboard is way too small. With the same adaptive typing technology applied to a much larger virtual keyboard I would imagine that people could type just about as fast as they do on a physical keyboard. Virtual keyboards can also be adapted to the app being used. I could see people using Slate to type for posts like this or even a small multipage report.

There are different sets of virtual keyboards for different purposes. The Fullscreen keyboard is best for typing long documents. There is also an in-window keyboard for light typing needs.

However, a physical keyboard might be preferred to some, so you could still connect one. The physical keyboard to a multi-touch computer would be like a Wacom Tablet to modern computers. You would not see them often, and usually the ones who have them are on a pro or semi-pro level (like someone writing a screenplay).

- The size. Large surfaces are fantastic for many reasons (and the interface shown here would only get better as the surface got larger), but they're not very portable. You'd still need a backpack to transport that thing around. I'd love something the size of a novel or a notebook that I can just throw in a small bag. Big enough to read text and write notes, but small enough to be portable.
To me you're describing two different devices. A small Media centric device (kind of like a larger iPod Touch), and a Mac-level device. I'm focused on the Mac-Level device with my Slate concept here.

Slate would be 13in in size and less than an inch thick. Without having to unfold the computer to use it, this 13in size would be surprisingly more portable and still retain a very comfortable screen size. When at home you could connect Slate to a 24in Multi-Touch display. But, I like the 13in size. It's the Goldilocks of displays (not too big, not too small, but just right).

Anyway, thanks for spending all that time indoors making sweet tablet videos. At least I'll have something to look at every time Apple doesn't announce a tablet now....
We'll I have to have something to do at the library when I'm on a study break.

Thanks! :apple:
 

lookoverthere

macrumors member
Original poster
May 22, 2009
31
0
Atlanta, GA
Feel the touch

I was just thinking about touchscreens with tactile responses myself... what's the basics behind the current technology and how do they feel? I've never used one.

Anyways, this may be too sci-fi for modern tech but what about a flexible keyboard that gives way a little bit when you tap the screen, but only in that spot so you create a little temporary dent. Nothing like the whole screen moving at once though. It could potentially have nearly the feeling of typing on a keyboard. Just an idea though.

Nate

I think a Touch Screen with tactile response combined with Multi-Touch would be the ultimate interface. :D

I haven't done any real research into tactile response (haptic) touch screens. I read some where that Nokia had developed one.

You never know how close stuff like this might be to reality. Just 5 years ago few would have imagined a device like the iPhone. Now its a reality. :apple:
 

almond

macrumors newbie
Mar 11, 2009
15
0
Snow Leopard's Dock with built-in Expose would work great on a Multi-Touch computer.
Agreed! One of my first thoughts when I was watching your vids, actually.

With the same adaptive typing technology applied to a much larger virtual keyboard I would imagine that people could type just about as fast as they do on a physical keyboard.
As someone who generally types without looking at the keyboard, I mainly miss the actual physical differentiation between keys when I use a virtual keyboard. It is possible I would naturally look at a virtual keyboard while typing, in which case size wouldn't matter so much.

To me you're describing two different devices. A small Media centric device (kind of like a larger iPod Touch), and a Mac-level device. I'm focused on the Mac-Level device with my Slate concept here.
Yes, in a sense I am describing two different devices. I realize that some interface decisions are different when designing for smaller screens, and yours is clearly optimized for a 13 inch.

What I was getting at is that a small version of Slate would still work decently well while being much more portable. (This as opposed to a large iPod Touch, which would be a huge disappointment).

That said, I agree that 13 inch is a pretty good, universal size. Since it's about the size of a piece of paper, it should fit into your average-sized bag.
 

Marx55

macrumors 68000
Jan 1, 2005
1,945
775
Thanks for the kind words Marx55. There is a Mini DisplayPort on the side. You can see it in video 06 and in more detail on my Flickr page. Is that the video-out port you're looking for?

:apple:

Thanks. I had posted before a comment on your new page at

http://macslate.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-to-think-about-and-apply-multi.html

See also the first picture of:

Next Apple moves will be Books and Games…
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/next-apple-moves-will-be-books-and-games
 
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