Gone back to PC

[iMcLovin]

I'm curious: What "old skool" tech do you feel the new MacBooks Pros contain? From what I know they use current technology.

They don't. Well some of the hardware is new, but its still low-end.
CPU is the newest consumer CPU. But since we all know apple is not gonna update this one for another 2 years, its annoying they release one just before a new CPU is out.

Ram is DDR 3 (current is DDR 4) and maximum of 16 gb!!!

GPU is new but still crap lowend GPU. WHen paying this much for a laptop you dont expect to get cheap consumer GPU. Just for comparison. MacBookPros highest end GPU performs about 1.6 terraflops (the number Phil Schiller likes to brag about) and the current MOBILE nvidia gtx 1080 does whopping 8 terraflops. thats more than 4x the speed. But I guess the price of the MacBook pro would have become too expensive for the consumer.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

My decision to switch back to PC and windows 10 had nothing to do with Mac OSX. lets be clear here, both Win 10 and OSX are not perfect, some things are better on both. My gripe is with Apple and there obsession with looking good and wanting the thinnest laptop even though it will throttle performance when it warms up, just like the last one did.

My main gripe is the premium price for the hardware, which is not current hardware, DDR3 over a year out of date, by the time the Mac book Pro gets DDR4 we will have a new even faster memory for PC based systems (all this hardware is available for Mac systems if Apple wanted) the ability to up grade your memory? wow so you want 32g of ram but that's out of your budget, so you used to be able to buy the base version and upgrade when funds were available to do so, not any more you cant, apple have stoped that. The Mac Pro, 3 years old, and on 4 year old hardware, the premium Mac with a price tag to match is out of date by 4 years and still apples premium Mac system, sticking a modern CPU in older hardware does not see its true potential. Old style GPU's when there is a card 4X faster for the imac and mac book pro, why apple? I always thought when you pay premium price you get premium hardware not just the apple logo. Mac's have been around me for many years including black n white screens so ive seen them all come and go, but in todays world there is no reason apple have to use old hardware. computer hardware has advanced a great deal in recent years, come on Apple get in the fast lane.

So am I happy with my decision to switch back to PC, the answer is YES because I have current hardware, M2 drive reading over 2000 MBs, DDR4 3400mhz hex core CPU that if I want I could upgrade, same with GFX 1080 card infact everything can be upgraded, and also Win 10 is a good OS as is OSX.

I am no longer content to just accept apples slick design's with out of date hardware. when your going to drop 3k plus on a new system you would like to think your getting your moneys worth, but unfortunately with Apple you don't.

 

[iMcLovin]

well I had my retina imac for 2 years, at the time top of the range. and looking at the way things are going and the apple price going upward, also the new mac book pro with solderd ram DDR3 old skool ram. and with a new imac release next year with most likely more old tech inside I went back to PC with win10

got a 4k screen and a beast of a build PC for the same price as new high end imac.

i7 6800k hex core
asus edition 10 rampage M/B
corsair 3600mhz DDR4
GTX 1080
M.2 Samsung pro 950
water cooled
case
power supply the whole works and sits at 4.2ghz and does all I need much much faster.

so after having mac's since the quadra to the lampshade Imac 1.25ghz its good bye to apple. for a premium company like apple to supply old tech at premium prices I ve had enough of the way apple treats its desk top user's.

and win 10 is a very good OS to boot.

Im exactly in the same boat as you. I had a retina 5K iMac for 2 years, completely maxed out one. I was sick of the throttling, limitations and lack of available hardware from Apple. Honestly, I think there's no point trying to convince people on this forum what is the best decision - better to move to a PC geek forum .
For me it was the same as you, but for some Mac users hardware isn't the most important, it can be the looks of the machines, the apple logo, convenience or simply because they like OS X and that is worth the sacrifice in hardware and options. If you care about performance and hardware IS important to you, even with an unlimited budget, it doesn't make sense sticking with apple anymore tbh.

Funny enough I almost bought the exact same specs as you as well, built my own computer this summer:

Hexa Core 6850K overclocked to 4.4GHZ
128GB DDR 4 2666MhZ Ram
GTX 1080 overclocked MSI Gaming Z card (its completely silent)
Asus Rog Strix x99 Gaming MB
1tb 850 Pro SSD - and 12tb ov regular HDD's
32" PA329Q Monitor
Not water cooled but I replaced all fans with Noctua fans in the case and also a Noctua cooling rib on the CPU.

Im very happy with my computer! And couldnt consider for a second to go back to mac. But I have a question for you. I didnt know about the M.2 SSD when I bought mine . So, Im considering to migrate my 850 Pro ssd to a m.2 Pro 950. But since you have one all ready, do you notice any real life speed difference? Of course in theory its 6x as fast as the 500Mbps 850Pro, but how much do you actually notice this when working, booting up, copying files, opening programs. Have you experienced the difference between the two? Have you compared real life speeds? Just curious before I go buy one

 

[Praxeus]

I sold my Retina 5k iMac this past spring and built my own Windows 10 machine with a 34inch monitor and haven't really looked back for many of the same reasons others in this thread have. I tell you, the only thing I really miss is iMessage. Apple had me for so long and lost me somewhere along the way. I still want to believe, but...

 

[ITguy2016]

This sums up so well why I hate Windows so much (even windows 10).

So, so much.

These are all of the things the Windows 10 fanboys on this forum aren't noticing.

Or don't find objectionable. Or can overlook. There's a difference between preferences and problems.

 

[iMcLovin]

I sold my Retina 5k iMac this past spring and built my own Windows 10 machine with a 34inch monitor and haven't really looked back for many of the same reasons others in this thread have. I tell you, the only thing I really miss is iMessage. Apple had me for so long and lost me somewhere along the way. I still want to believe, but...

Heh, its the only thing I knew I would miss as well. And I do. WIll be interesting with WIndows Spring update, the creators update. It will have a chat integrated that will have all sorts of chats in one. If this one will support Android Phone chat (since we all know APple don't like to play on the same team as the rest) I might switch to a Android phone as well just to get sms on my desktop.

 

[ITguy2016]

My decision to switch back to PC and windows 10 had nothing to do with Mac OSX. lets be clear here, both Win 10 and OSX are not perfect, some things are better on both. My gripe is with Apple and there obsession with looking good and wanting the thinnest laptop even though it will throttle performance when it warms up, just like the last one did.

My main gripe is the premium price for the hardware, which is not current hardware, DDR3 over a year out of date, by the time the Mac book Pro gets DDR4 we will have a new even faster memory for PC based systems (all this hardware is available for Mac systems if Apple wanted) the ability to up grade your memory? wow so you want 32g of ram but that's out of your budget, so you used to be able to buy the base version and upgrade when funds were available to do so, not any more you cant, apple have stoped that. The Mac Pro, 3 years old, and on 4 year old hardware, the premium Mac with a price tag to match is out of date by 4 years and still apples premium Mac system, sticking a modern CPU in older hardware does not see its true potential. Old style GPU's when there is a card 4X faster for the imac and mac book pro, why apple? I always thought when you pay premium price you get premium hardware not just the apple logo. Mac's have been around me for many years including black n white screens so ive seen them all come and go, but in todays world there is no reason apple have to use old hardware. computer hardware has advanced a great deal in recent years, come on Apple get in the fast lane.

So am I happy with my decision to switch back to PC, the answer is YES because I have current hardware, M2 drive reading over 2000 MBs, DDR4 3400mhz hex core CPU that if I want I could upgrade, same with GFX 1080 card infact everything can be upgraded, and also Win 10 is a good OS as is OSX.

I am no longer content to just accept apples slick design's with out of date hardware. when your going to drop 3k plus on a new system you would like to think your getting your moneys worth, but unfortunately with Apple you don't.

Aside from using DDR3 instead of DDR4 what is not current about the rest of the system?

 

[Matty_TypeR]

imaclovin, the only way I can describe the 950pro is, its like going from a spinner drive to SSD drive all over again, very fast, and yes very similar spec's indeed, I went for the rampage edition 10 board for mine, but really almost identical.

itguy2016

Its not just the DDR3 to DDR 4 its the motherboard or logic board chipset, which allows the the DDR to run faster and takes advantage of newer CPU's memory controller. on board M2 drives supported by motherboard, X99 supports quad channel DDR also. and whats not current, well the new mac book pro only just released with DDR3. its not that apple don't have innovative idea's but for the price you would like to think you get not just a pretty machine, but one that's as slick on the inside as the outside, its like a aston martin vantage, lovely car, with a fiat 500 engine in it. looks good on the outside, but performs in the slow lane.

 

[Alx9876]

You can make most of the iMac system current but it comes at a steep price. I.e. SSD's, i7 CPU, the ram (32 or 64 maxed), GPU. The steep price is what makes it not worth it anymore. Because you can build the same system at almost $1400 less give or take (Price varies). The iMac monitor is great but most of us are strictly referring to the guts of the machine without the monitor aspect of it.
[doublepost=1479164499][/doublepost]

Here's mine, but I still got my more Apple stuff than PC. But have been using my PC more recently.

Parts are here: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/kinster/saved/7YDG3C

I have to know. Is that monitor worth it? I have been looking that identical model for the last 6 weeks. My newly built PC can push that thing easily.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

alex I have to agree, 5k screen was nice, but run it in 5k on desktop and see if you would like it, I didn't, it down scales for desktop, if you force it to, it will run 5k but looks horrid and all is to small and fuzzy looking, for pictures its 5k, I am using a 4k screen and can view my desktop in 4k easy. still looks amazing in 4k but now instead of having a 295X 4g gpu and some magic chip to get 5k on the imac, its native 4k now. and it don't get hot and throttle like some imac's did.

 

[ITguy2016]

Its not just the DDR3 to DDR 4 its the motherboard or logic board chipset, which allows the the DDR to run faster and takes advantage of newer CPU's memory controller. on board M2 drives supported by motherboard, X99 supports quad channel DDR also. and whats not current, well the new mac book pro only just released with DDR3. its not that apple don't have innovative idea's but for the price you would like to think you get not just a pretty machine, but one that's as slick on the inside as the outside, its like a aston martin vantage, lovely car, with a fiat 500 engine in it. looks good on the outside, but performs in the slow lane.

Perhaps you missed where I wrote:

"Aside from using DDR3..."

Can you provide examples of any other outdated technology used in the new MacBook Pros?
Aside from using DDR3 instead of DDR4

 

[iMcLovin]

imaclovin, the only way I can describe the 950pro is, its like going from a spinner drive to SSD drive all over again, very fast, and yes very similar spec's indeed, I went for the rampage edition 10 board for mine, but really almost identical.

So what you are saying is that the feeling of using m.2 950Pro from a regular SSD gives you the same feeling as when going from a regular spinner drive to an SSD for the first time ?
THats quite a drastic statement At least in my memory the regular spinner drives used like 2 mins to boot up windows.
If you are serious, I will definately order one.

Its because of watching videos like this Im reluctant to make a new investment for my main HDD so soon. Because accordig to real life tests, the changes are milliseconds in just very few situations.

[doublepost=1479167057][/doublepost]

Perhaps you missed where I wrote:

"Aside from using DDR3..."

Can you provide examples of any other outdated technology used in the new MacBook Pros?
Aside from using DDR3 instead of DDR4

As I mentioned earlier, even if a lot of the hardware isn't outdated, apple has surely picked out some cheaply/low performing options of hardware...and they charge premium prices for them as if it was top top tier hardware. THats not any better in my book.

 

[varian55zx]

Or don't find objectionable. Or can overlook. There's a difference between preferences and problems.

My personal view is they simply can't notice. Either can't or don't.

I still can't navigate through "Windows file explorer" after years of using it because its organization doesn't make any sense compared to Mac. Mac is just so much better

Good luck using control panel because it's nothing more than a jumbled mess of icons.

And even little things like not having to select a window in OS X to scroll in it just make the experience so much better and worth the extra $$$.

Windows is a much more confusing and non-user friendly experience. macOS is just as capable as windows but it's organization is just so much better. I guess Windows can make sense in the workplace.

 

[ITguy2016]

My personal view is they simply can't notice. Either can't or don't

Or don't find objectionable. Or can overlook.

I still can't navigate through "Windows file explorer" after years of using it because its organization doesn't make any sense compared to Mac. Mac is just so much better

I have no issues navigating through "Windows file explorer". Therefore I would posit the issue isn't with Windows but rather you.

Good luck using control panel because it's nothing more than a jumbled mess of icons

Again I would posit the issue is with you and not Windows.

And even little things like not having to select a window in OS X to scroll in it just make the experience so much better and worth the extra $$$.

I don't place any value in this. Therefore, to me, it's not a positive for OS X. However I dislike the way applications shift in the dock as they are opened and then minimized. This isn't the case with the Windows Task Bar.

Windows is a much more confusing and non-user friendly experience. macOS is just as capable as windows but it's organization is just so much better. I guess Windows can make sense in the workplace.

For you. You prefer how OS X does things...that's fine. I won't call into question your preferences. It's not my place to tell you that your favorite color is wrong because it doesn't match mine. However it's also inappropriate for you to call into question my favorite color because it doesn't match yours.

 

[varian55zx]

However it's also inappropriate for you to call into question my favorite color because it doesn't match yours.

Hold on. I'm not doing this. You know I'm not doing this

I'm merely stating my view on Windows and Mac.

I don't know what it is about Windows... navigating through it is just so choppy. macOS is seamless

And Windows features what appears to be third rare graphics. Looks like it was thrown together in graphic design class compared to El Capitan.

If you or anyone disagrees with my views, that is alright by me.

 

[ITguy2016]

Hold on. I'm not doing this. You know I'm not doing this

I'm merely stating my view on Windows and Mac.

I don't know what it is about Windows... navigating through it is just so choppy. macOS is seamless

And Windows features what appears to be third rare graphics. Looks like it was thrown together in graphic design class compared to El Capitan.

If you or anyone disagrees with my views, that is alright by me.

No, I don't know you're not doing this. What purpose does it serve to tell everyone what your favorite color is

 

[varian55zx]

No, I don't know you're not doing this. What purpose does it serve to tell everyone what your favorite color is

Simply put I believe macOS is superior and I believe that strongly.

I do believe it is worth the extra cost which is why I have boughten Mac for many years.

To claim that the subtleties in macOS don't make for a superior experience is, in my opinion, a non-optimal point of view.

 

[Maxx Power]

Simply put I believe macOS is superior and I believe that strongly.

I do believe it is worth the extra cost which is why I have boughten Mac for many years.

To claim that the subtleties in macOS don't make for a superior experience is, in my opinion, a non-optimal point of view.

Well, to be well rounded, not everything is superior under macOS. For example, gaming experience (from API support to game libraries to the ability to fully disable mouse acceleration) and hardware support, e.g., many USB TV tuners and capture devices are not supported. Just to name a few.

Overall, I don't think one can claim complete superiority. There are enough differences between macOS and Windows that whether or not you feel that either is better (subjectively), all depends on your usage scenario, your preferences, your expectations and your adaptability. As an example, I find many aspects are simpler in macOS, but many are conversely more convenient in Windows.

 

[iMcLovin]

Simply put I believe macOS is superior and I believe that strongly.

I do believe it is worth the extra cost which is why I have boughten Mac for many years.

To claim that the subtleties in macOS don't make for a superior experience is, in my opinion, a non-optimal point of view.

Problem is when that extra cost you are willing to pay only lets you get old or underpowered hardware. For some people (perhap you?), sitting and enjoying the wonders of opening Finder windows, playing in Preferences or flipping through apps in Expose is enough to make you happy. But, if you have certain dependencies with the machine based on actual performance, the argument changes COMPLETELY.

For me, I use After Effects, Photoshop, Unity3D, Indesign and illustrator in addition to 3d programs and rendering all the time. I had a 5K iMac with 32 gb of ram. WHen I render 3d, I could forget working in Photoshop. If I forget and keep multiple programs open, the iMac could often crash reboot because its out of ram. If I render too much over time the machine could Throttle and eventually crash...and the rendering process would be slow because of lack of cores.
THe underlying OS, Im fine with windows, but I have no problem admitting to OS X has a general nicer feel to it (though personally the difference isnt huge - because Im used to both) BUT, nonetheless, all that OS glory is just something sitting between the programs you work on. And all the programs acts and looks exactly the same, its just the desktop and Finder/explorer that are a different experience. And for me, those are just a tool between the programs that actually makes money for me.
If thats not your case, then the machine is just a glorified consumer box, and honestly there's no discussion worth having - because you could just as well use an iPad if you find that user experience to be better. IF on the other hand you are dependent on hardware and computer performance, saying paying the extra cost for superior user experience doesnt make much sense because apples computers are getting more outdated and more expensive every day. THeres no extra cost which you say for the same hardware, they simply doesn't offer the same hardware AT ALL. I wouldn't mind paying 10K USD for a Mac Pro, if it had a proper GPU and better CPU options, but I'm not paying 10K USD when I can triple the speed with a PC. ....no matter how lush the colors or shining aluminum chassis looks or how pretty the desktop seems. Now I can work in Photoshop while I render, I can play games or have 10 programs open at the same time, nothing bulks the machines performance. To me that is a LOT more important than general OS experience. And to anyone making money on their machine that should by no means be less important than trivial OS UI experience as long as both can do the same things.

 

[maflynn]

Simply put I believe macOS is superior and I believe that strongly.

That's your opinion, there are things in OS X that it does better then windows, but there are things in windows that are superior to OS X.

I do believe it is worth the extra cost which is why I have boughten Mac for many years.

Many other people believe that to be the case as well, which is why up till now Apple has enjoyed increasing sales.

To claim that the subtleties in macOS don't make for a superior experience is, in my opinion, a non-optimal point of view.

Subtleties like closing the main window in one app closes the application, but closing the main window in another app, doesn't? OS X has its share of inconsistencies and head scratching UI decisions. You've been using Macs for so many years by your own admission you've long gotten used to those, but that doesn't mean they're not there.

There's a lot I like about OS X, and there's a fair amount that slows me down work wise.

 

[kinster]

You can make most of the iMac system current but it comes at a steep price. I.e. SSD's, i7 CPU, the ram (32 or 64 maxed), GPU. The steep price is what makes it not worth it anymore. Because you can build the same system at almost $1400 less give or take (Price varies). The iMac monitor is great but most of us are strictly referring to the guts of the machine without the monitor aspect of it.
[doublepost=1479164499][/doublepost]

I have to know. Is that monitor worth it? I have been looking that identical model for the last 6 weeks. My newly built PC can push that thing easily.

If you are a gamer it's worth it. I bought it for my kids but they hardly use it.

 

[maflynn]

Coincidentally, I was thinking of putting OS X back in my iMacs internal drive instead of windows yesterday, but then I needed to run some tasks that windows does better and here I am running windows on my iMac.

 

[ITguy2016]

Simply put I believe macOS is superior and I believe that strongly.

I do believe it is worth the extra cost which is why I have boughten Mac for many years.

Great! Have at it. I'm not here to try and change your opinion.

To claim that the subtleties in macOS don't make for a superior experience is, in my opinion, a non-optimal point of view.

And that's all it it: Your opinion. Others hold different opinions. Yours is no more or less valid than there's so can you please stop acting as if it is?

 

[MistrSynistr]

Windows 10 is absolutely terrible, and in about 3 to 6 months you are going to have a plethora of issues with it.

 

[bopajuice]

You made a decision on a new *desktop* machine (1) Based on Apple's *laptop* and (2) Right before the new iMac is released?

The new top-spec iMac 27 will probably have a 4.2Ghz Kaby Lake i7-7700K, which turbos to 4.5Ghz. Some preliminary benchmarks indicate faster *multicore* performance than all six-core Xeon Mac Pros, faster than most eight-core Mac Pros, and not far behind several 12-core Mac Pros. https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/583275

We don't know what GPU will be in the updated top-spec iMac 27, but it's likely it will be some version of the AMD Polaris. If it is the E9550 (essentially an embedded version of the RX 480), that is listed as about 2x the floating point performance of the M395X in the 2015 iMac: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10710/amd-announces-embedded-radeon-e9260-e9550

So while we don't yet know for certain, it seems increasingly possible the 2017 top-spec iMac will be a more substantial performance increase than any year-over-year improvement in recent history.

I am not against Windows, in fact I am typing this on a Windows machine, although I have several Macs. But making a decision on your desktop machine right before substantially upgraded iMacs are released doesn't make sense to me.

To me it does not make assumptions about what Apple will release next. How many times have you been disappointed vs satisfied? It seems to always be a mixed bag. Building your own will get you what you want. At this point I feel a combination of Windows and MacOS machines seems to be a reasonable compromise.

With a computer like what the OP put together, who cares what Apple releases. He has one very nice and UPGRADABLE machine.
[doublepost=1479222972][/doublepost]

Windows 10 is absolutely terrible, and in about 3 to 6 months you are going to have a plethora of issues with it.

Not me. I use it for business without issue.

I can also use and sync my Apple contacts, and calendars into Windows 10. I find Windows 10 drivers to be more robust and stable when using an external monitor or attachments (wired and wireless).