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Good Entry Level DSLR
- Thread starter thunderweb
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Hmm, well I do agree with you that the max ISO at 1600 is pretty sad, but if Im not mistaken, only the XS doesn't have spot metering, the XSi have spot metering, and yea agree with the tiny grip and small plastic body but I got no complain bout the plastic body cause of the price issue. Now about the whole battery killer thing, I don't think it's such a problem with the new battery found in XS, XSi and T1i, It takes like very very long to drain it, if memory serves me correct, I can fill up 8gb - 10gb worth of memory on a single charge, of course without using built in flash.
Not necessarily. I'm not up on the specs, but the 20D and the D60 aren't really comparable.
The 20D is the predecessor to the 30D which is the predecessor to the 40D which is the predecessor to the 50D. The 50D is Canon's current "prosumer" dSLR.
The D60 is the replacement to the D40/40x and has been supplanted by the D5000. These are Nikon's entry-level dSLR.
I can't comment on whether the D60 beats the 20D in terms of IQ, but it is a few years newer. The 20D is a larger camera, probably with more dials and it has a separate LCD-info screen.
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Price issue? Used 30Ds are cheaper than new XSi's/T1i's, and 20D's are cheaper than all of them combined.
I really wouldn't make the mistake of directly comparing Canon xD bodies with Nikon Dx bodies. They have each been released at different times, with different priorities in mind, not to mention a different set of lenses (of particular importance for the D40/60, which can only autofocus with AF-S lenses).
Canon and Nikon's lineups are just too staggered to really make for a true comparison. Maybe the only real comparison to be had, if there is one, is between the D3x and the 1Ds Mark III. Even the D700 and 5D Mark II is a shaky comparison in some ways, given the difference in resolution and autofocus (heavy lean to the 5D on the former, heavy lean toward the D700 on the latter), not to mention the movie feature that goes with the 5D Mark II that's absent with the D700.
Canon and Nikon's lineups are just too staggered to really make for a true comparison. Maybe the only real comparison to be had, if there is one, is between the D3x and the 1Ds Mark III. Even the D700 and 5D Mark II is a shaky comparison in some ways, given the difference in resolution and autofocus (heavy lean to the 5D on the former, heavy lean toward the D700 on the latter), not to mention the movie feature that goes with the 5D Mark II that's absent with the D700.
Just fixing up the names so we don't get confused here...
I agree, though that they're hard to compare directly. The 20D is going to be more prosumer-oriented, with a faster burst rate, two command wheels and information window. The D60 also does not have mirror lockup or exposure bracketing, which is minor but notable. You may or may not have to worry about the D60's need for AF-S lenses for autofocus--for many people this is irrelevant. Look at what lenses you'll probably want to buy if you go for Nikon and see if there are any non-AF-S lenses that could pose some problems.
I'm not quite sure on IQ differences either. Because they're in different tiers and separated by a good amount of time, it's hard to find direct comparisons. Should be good with either camera, the only question is which one is better.
I don't know about the XTi, but the XSi must be in another league. Its screen is not always on, since it has a detection mechanism that shuts the screen off when your face gets close (I love that feature and can't believe they omitted it from the 50D
). It also has an auto-sleep feature. The battery on the XSi is nothing short of a modern marvel; I consistently get about 1,000 shots per charge (!). The XSi also has spot metering. They did rework the grip on the XSi, so it's much more comfortable to hold, especially with the added battery grip. The lightness of the plastic is still there, but that's the case with any entry-level camera except for those from Pentax (the K200D is a weather-sealed tank of a camera).I agree with everything wheelhot said here. Yes, the XS lacks spot metering. It also lacks the rubberized grip of the XSi, so it would of course feel less satisfying to hold. They both stop at ISO 1600, but they handle that level of ISO with grace (or at least the XSi does).
I've really pushed my XSi in a lot of ways, and it has not let me down. I've used it in freezing temperatures, in drizzling precipitation, under a scorching hot sun at dusty archaeological sites. It's been everywhere with me, from California to Albania, some twelve countries in all. It has bounced around in various camera bags and on every imaginable type of transportation. I've taken photos of everything from pitch-black caves to gleaming white marble. The little champ just works and works well. I could not be more happy with it.
1. I'm talking about when it is at your side. XTi's had the auto-shutoff as well when your face was close but that's it.I don't know about the XTi, but the XSi must be in another league. Its screen is not always on, since it has a detection mechanism that shuts the screen off when your face gets close (I love that feature and can't believe they omitted it from the 50D
I agree with everything wheelhot said here. Yes, the XS lacks spot metering. It also lacks the rubberized grip of the XSi, so it would of course feel less satisfying to hold. They both stop at ISO 1600, but they handle that level of ISO with grace (or at least the XSi does).
I've really pushed my XSi in a lot of ways, and it has not let me down. I've used it in freezing temperatures, in drizzling precipitation, under a scorching hot sun at dusty archaeological sites. It's been everywhere with me, from California to Albania, some twelve countries in all. It has bounced around in various camera bags and on every imaginable type of transportation. I've taken photos of everything from pitch-black caves to gleaming white marble. The little champ just works and works well. I could not be more happy with it.
2. The only reworking they did on the grip was the change in texture. It still is tiny and extremely uncomfortable compared to that of a xxD series. The main reason why I got rid of my XTi was because it frankly felt like a cheap PoS, and I couldn't even fit all of my fingers on it.
3. For me, I'd be pissed if the manufacturer deliberately cut high-ISO from the firmware of my camera, in essence crippling it in extremely low light unless you have extremely fast lenses or an all-IS lineup.
Well, I was referring the price issue to XS and XSi, you can't compare the build of 20D/30D which is a few years older then XS and XSi. Besides, the Rebel series has always been for the entry level hence lots of plastic, but you can't say that for the xxD series.
And yea, the XS and XSi does a tremendously good job at ISO1600, add a quality lens and the photos will still look very good.
I do wish the XS has rubberized grip though, I recently bought a BGE5 battery grip and fuh do I love holding the textured grip.
Well I do agree some people will argue about the size of the Rebel series especially for those with large hands but we do get what we paid for.
Am I the only one who doesn't have a problem with the Rebel's grip size? Granted, I'm not a hulking massive adult yet but my father doesn't have a problem either. He prefers the smaller overall size of the Rebel to the xxD series as well.
Are you set to go with a Nikon? I am currently on the same search for a new camera (also my first!) and have found from multiple reviews and comparisons that Canon's lower end seems to be better value, as do many of their higher end. I personally am going for either a Canon XS/XSi/40D with most likely a kit lens. I have also found that Canon seems to have a better selection of lenses (at least in my country). But like others said, go check them out in a store. I mean from reviews, all cameras are superb, from the Nikon D60 to the Canon XSi/40D to the Sony A350 to the Olympus E620 etc. You just have to find one that you find to be the best (ergonomic wise) because all of these people who buy one company will only recommend that company (happens to me with Macs and iPods ).
Good luck on our decision!
).Good luck on our decision!
Hey Patriks7, ya I think I'm pretty set on the D60, I can get it at a great price wit a bunch of other accessories (and I get the 55-200mm lens as well). I posted a link to it on the previous page. I went in and held a couple different models and I really like the D60, it's the perfect size of me and I think it will be an excellent camera. I know what you mean as far as if you buy from that company you most likely will only refer that company Anyways, I love the D60's size and weight. I'm hoping to purchase it in a couple weeks (hopefully sooner than 2 ) and I'll post some pics one I do get it. Thank you guys for the suggestions and recommendations!
Anyways, I love the D60's size and weight. I'm hoping to purchase it in a couple weeks (hopefully sooner than 2 ) and I'll post some pics one I do get it. Thank you guys for the suggestions and recommendations!What do you mean by better value? Just get the cameras in your hand, and let's see what you think after that. Also, it is known that Nikon is trouncing Canon at the higher end.
Well I was just stating what I found on most reviews. I personally don't have experience, as I don't have a camera yet. Hopefully that should change within a couple weeks
Besides serious photography magazines, there's ONE place online for reviews: dpreview. If you don't find it there, in that case one has to content oneself with what one finds in a couple other places.
But note that dpreview never gives a negative summary rating. You can ignore the final labeling, and come to your own conclusion based on the rest of the last page (or the whole review).
But note that dpreview never gives a negative summary rating. You can ignore the final labeling, and come to your own conclusion based on the rest of the last page (or the whole review).
personally, as an owner of an XSi, I don't see why ISO 1600 as a max is so bad. Its a consumer level camera, and even so, it wasn't to long ago, back before digital that it was hard to find that high speed film (AFAIK, from what I've heard from friends and relatives). Sure its a tiny grip and body, but for a lot of people that could be comfortable. Personally, I'm comfortable with canon's bodys from the XSi upto the 1D. The Nikons just don't feel as right.
For the battery, I shoot a lot of sports with mine, and I can easily fill 2-3 8gb cards on one battery. Thats on jpeg, so we are talking 4-5thousand photo's on one battery.
Sure the T1i has a much higher ISO capability, and it probably performs very well at that, but does everyone need that?
I gave him links to the D60 and D40 reviews in my first post, as well as links to PopPhoto.
The point is that that poster seems to put too much faith on any random reviews he finds on the net.
^^ Trust me I am an EXTREMELY analytical person. I didn't just read one random review that told me to buy this certain camera. I have read quite a few and I have gone in and held them as well. I just am more comfortable with the Nikon.
If you are more comfortable with the Nikon, buy the Nikon. You will always regret not buying the one you wanted.