Good sites to purchase from?

[Chip NoVaMac]

B&H is a "real store" and of course they sell at "B&H prices" why can't other real stores sell for B&H prices? I could underastand your argument if all the Internet stores operated out of a wherehouse on $2 per acre desert land and staffed with minimum wage ideots. But no, the best known Internet store is a large building in New York staffed by real photo salesmen.

Depending on the product you are comparing, at least in my shops case we are very close or or match the B&H price on current and main line product. Sometimes there are games played. But all in all the local shops are generally close to what B&H is doing.

But from the stories I have heard from those that visited the mother-ship at B&H, it is not very touchy feely. I would also guess that 60 to 70% of their sales are not from the brick and mortar store front; but from the web and phone.

Sorry to disappoint you, but your order over the phone or the net does not go out from that wonderful storefront. But does go out out of some lower cost real estate in the NY area, with people that don;t earn 6 figures; like any of the grunts in the industry earn that much!

From what I have been told, try and go to the B&H store front and ask to sample 3 to to 5 lenses and see how you are treated. Try and go back to that "salesperson" and want to chat as to why the images from your nieces birthday party did not meet expectation. Or ask them why you did not get your rebate. Maybe they would have taken the time we did to solve an issue with as to the IR ADF grid on the SB-800 on a D200.

My comments are based on actual customer comments on visits to the actual store, and a former employee of my store that worked for B&
H.

 

[Clix Pix]

There's a lot to be said for personalized service....

One time not long after I'd bought my D70, I ran into some problems with it. I looked in the manual, couldn't find any good answers, I looked online and found dire descriptions of the BGLOD, I looked again and again at my camera and panicked. Oh, that must be it, my camera had suffered the fate of BGLOD! The metering was screwed up, my camera was screwed....

I got in the car and went to the local shop, handed over the camera and babbled my anxieties. The guy looked at the camera, looked through the viewfinder, calmly flicked a switch and made an adjustment, handed it back to me and assured me that everything was fine, a setting had just accidentally gotten changed. No judgement passed, no nastiness, no snickering at my stupidity....I was treated with respectfulness and as much caring and concern as if there had been a major problem with the camera. I was sent on my way knowing that things were OK....

Another time I was in there making a purchase and another customer was inquiring about how to clean the sensor on his DSLR. I watched with interest as one of the sales associates demonstrated just how to do this, how to gently blow the dust out with a Giotto Rocket first before attempting anything else. A few weeks later when I discovered a dust bunny on a couple of my images, i didn't panic, instead got out my own Giotto Rocket and did just as I remembered having seen the person at the store doing.... voila! Dust bunnies disappeared, end of problem.

Point being here that in each of these instances I derived a lot more satisfaction (and education) than I would had I ordered my DSLR from an online store.... In both of those situations alone whatever "extra" money I wound up paying for my D70 (due to having to pay state taxes rather than actual price differences) was well worth the expenditure.... When the D200 was announced, I headed to my local store to get on a pre-order list and was rewarded with a call from the store staff in mid-December telling me that my new camera had arrived. Just for fun a day or two later I looked at posts online and there were a lot of grumbles and dissatisfaction with B&H and other places for the way they were handling things. While others were complaining about the online stores I was out there shooting with my new D200....

 

[jared_kipe]

Support? What if it breaks on you beyond that 30 day return policy? What if you can't figure out something in the manual? What if you don't even know what "Feature X" does? What if you want friendly advice on what next lens / accessory to buy? What if you were going to buy the wrong camera to begin with?

I could go on and on.

This type of "service" might not be valuable to alot of guys, but it is to me, and I think you'd be surprised if you gave the local stores a chance. I know I was.

What if it breaks? Seriously? Take a broken product back to bestbuy after 30 days and they're gonna tell you tough ****. That is what warrantee is for, if it breaks you send it back to canon/nikon whatever.

All the rest of your "service" is what review sites or forums are for. I'd never walk into a store and ask a salesman what he thinks I should buy. Ever heard of the lady who asked the phone Dell salesman that she needed something to connect her two computers together and he ordered her a server. And when it was found out, she couldn't cancel it without paying a restocking fee? Is that the kind of service you want from retail people?

EDIT: Also to what Clix was talking about with his D70, I bet the store guy would have done the same thing even if he didn't buy it there. What if it wasn't the same guy who sold you the camera? If I worked at any store and some guy came in and wanted help I'd help him. In fact when I worked at a hardware store, I was routinely doing things that "weren't my job" for customers. Like assembling things, or explaining home improvement things that are like common sense, or even helping people pick the color of paint for their living room. I always helped without thinking "I wonder if he's gonna buy this" or something.

 

[panoz7]

What if it breaks? Seriously? Take a broken product back to bestbuy after 30 days and they're gonna tell you tough ****. That is what warrantee is for, if it breaks you send it back to canon/nikon whatever.

Woah there... I never even suggested bestbuy. I'd order from B&H or any specialized on line retailer in a heartbeat over them. I'm suggesting local, non-chain, speciallized camera stores. Not BB, wolf, ritz, circuit city, fry's, etc... I've had equipment break outside of the thirty days. I took it back to the store instead of shipping it to the company myself. They took care of the shipping, paperwork, etc... and made sure I got my equipment back as soon as possible. I could have done everything as well my self... but that would have required a lot more effort and time, and the repair probably wouldn't have been completed as quickly.

You made my point with the dell story (and made me laugh). That would never happen in a small store with knowladgeble sales people.

Now about the forums... I think you have to take all advice and pretty much everything you read here with a grain of salt. Look at the advice I'm giving. Plenty of people disagree, and I might as well be wrong (which is quite possible). The same thing happens when getting advice. People tend to compare the OP's problem to there personal situations (just as I'm doing) rather then giving the often more logical (although certainly biased... they do want to sell you something) help you'd recieve in a store. I'm just saying that its nice to have something to fall back on when forums fail.

Ok... that's enough with this argument. I kind of feel bad about insisting on my opinons.... I don't really do that this often, and I appologize if i've come off a bit harsh.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

What if it breaks? Seriously? Take a broken product back to bestbuy after 30 days and they're gonna tell you tough ****. That is what warrantee is for, if it breaks you send it back to canon/nikon whatever.

That is when I see them.

All the rest of your "service" is what review sites or forums are for. I'd never walk into a store and ask a salesman what he thinks I should buy. Ever heard of the lady who asked the phone Dell salesman that she needed something to connect her two computers together and he ordered her a server. And when it was found out, she couldn't cancel it without paying a restocking fee? Is that the kind of service you want from retail people?

Dell IMO is nothing but a big box store over the net or phone.

But does it stop you from coming into a store and asking to handle the gear you clearly are wanting to buy over the net? I am guessing not.

Regular photo shops do a disservice to themselves and their customers by forcing certain gear down their customers throats.

Who is in your corner if you have two or more warranty issues in the same year? Surely not the big box stores or those people on the net. There re costs for shipping and maybe a follow-up call to check on the repair. Maybe your tie means nothing, but for many time is money.

EDIT: Also to what Clix was talking about with his D70, I bet the store guy would have done the same thing even if he didn't buy it there. What if it wasn't the same guy who sold you the camera? If I worked at any store and some guy came in and wanted help I'd help him. In fact when I worked at a hardware store, I was routinely doing things that "weren't my job" for customers. Like assembling things, or explaining home improvement things that are like common sense, or even helping people pick the color of paint for their living room. I always helped without thinking "I wonder if he's gonna buy this" or something.

The reality is that in camera stores, we are trying to be selective in helping those that support us. It is a fine line, but in Clix Pix case, SHE is noted as a valued customer in our store.

I have heard from others that work in camera stores, that they are starting to look up serial numbers or the customer name in the database, before service is rendered.

The truth is that your local shops are in danger of being replaced by the big box stores or places on the net. Why should local places pander to your desires for the lowest price?

Maybe those of us on the net that offer our help, need to start asking where the purchase was made from. In your case I will turn a deaf ear, and maybe others should too. Look for help by staying on hold for hours on end. Or maybe you might find the answer in the manual.

There are those of us that are willing to spend more for the help and support.

 

[-hh]

Depending on the product you are comparing, at least in my shops case we are very close or or match the B&H price on current and main line product. Sometimes there are games played. But all in all the local shops are generally close to what B&H is doing.

What I've generally found is that the "too good to be true" prices are usually exactly that, particularly when shopping on the Internet...its IMO essential to check out the customer feedback to see if the company really is real.

FWIW, I just found this URL today which speaks somewhat to this subject: they did a tour of some New York City "camera stores" that have an Internet presence, to see if they had a real brick-n-mortar physical address. Caveat Emptor!

But from the stories I have heard from those that visited the mother-ship at B&H, it is not very touchy feely.

I've been there once and would agree with that to a degree. It was a Sunday and the place was very crowded...at such times, most businesses aren't particularly customer-friendly.

From what I have been told, try and go to the B&H store front and ask to sample 3 to to 5 lenses and see how you are treated.

During my visit, I asked to fat-finger some EOS 3's upstairs in the used department, and then a new Canon EF 400mm DO IS ($5200) downstairs. I also stopped by to look at film scanners. For 2 out of 3, they were quite oblidging and answered my (few) questions...they weren't much use on the scanners, but did well enough. Because I was window-shopping on a busy day, I chose to not take much of their time and as such, I'd not complain about how I was treated. YMMV on how much (if at all) a business should fawn over a tire-kicker on a busy day.


-hh

 

[Clix Pix]

The reality is that in camera stores, we are trying to be selective in helping those that support us. It is a fine line, but in Clix Pix case, SHE is noted as a valued customer in our store.

Thanks, Chip, on two counts! One being that you pointed out that I'm a "she" instead of a "he," as was erroneously posted in another post, and secondly that you guys consider me a valued customer in your store. I've been shopping there for, gosh, at least fifteen or twenty years, maybe longer.....and the reason I keep returning is that I've always had excellent service and transactions there. If I've had questions, they're always answered promptly and courteously, regardless of how silly or inane they might be. Heh, and another reason I enjoy going into that store is that, well, it's just plain FUN! Remember the night I had all of you guys trying to figure out what the mysterious item was in that abstract photo I showed you? Someone finally got it but only after I threw out some big hints...LOL!

 

[Clix Pix]

What I've generally found is that the "too good to be true" prices are usually exactly that, particularly when shopping on the Internet...its IMO essential to check out the customer feedback to see if the company really is real.

FWIW, I just found this URL today which speaks somewhat to this subject: they did a tour of some New York City "camera stores" that have an Internet presence, to see if they had a real brick-n-mortar physical address. Caveat Emptor!

Yes, that site is invaluable because Don Wiss really took the time to check out these places in person and what he shows is appalling. "Storefronts" which are nothing more than a street address of an old, falling-apart building....when you look up the names and addresses of some camera purveyors on the net, it's very interesting how a lot of them are owned by the same couple of guys and all have the same snailmail adddress! These indeed are the ones which advertise deals which are too good to be true because, well, they're NOT true. Order a camera from one of these and you'll more than likely get a grey-market item with just the camera body and none of the other usual essentials and parts that are supposed to come in the box -- no battery, no cables, no software.....


Wow, that's a neat photo of B&H! That place looks HUGE!! I guess it's more of a warehouse operation in some ways than a cozy, friendly store.... Very interesting!

 

[iPegboy]

i think a couple of people mentioned that they work for local shops . . . do you guys ever cut deals for customers. like, knock of $20 or throw in something to sweeten a deal? match other local prices? stuff like that.

and would you sell to someone in michigan?

 

[Clix Pix]

i think a couple of people mentioned that they work for local shops . . . do you guys ever cut deals for customers. like, knock of $20 or throw in something to sweeten a deal? match other local prices? stuff like that.

and would you sell to someone in michigan?

Most photo shops now have an online presence, so I would think that you could order from an out-of-state store if they have whatever it is you want.

 

[iPegboy]

Most photo shops now have an online presence, so I would think that you could order from an out-of-state store if they have whatever it is you want.

Yeah, I’m talking specifically about what Chip NoVaMac and panoz7 said. they both said they work at local shops (or has some connections with one). And so i was curious if i could buy from them (since my local experience has been less than, um, satisfactory).

 

[panoz7]

Yeah, I’m talking specifically about what Chip NoVaMac and panoz7 said. they both said they work at local shops (or has some connections with one). And so i was curious if i could buy from them (since my local experience has been less than, um, satisfactory).

I don't work at a camera store... I'm just there kind of frequently. Sorry if it came accross that way. I do have personal connections to other types of retail stores, but not any that sell cameras.

The shop that I go to most often is called Peace Camera. Its on Peace St. in Raleigh, NC. I think they have a website, but it really doesn't have too much on it. Its more of a kind of place you have to visit.

Best of luck finding a local shop...

 

[iPegboy]

I don't work at a camera store... I'm just there kind of frequently. Sorry if it came accross that way. I do have personal connections to other types of retail stores, but not any that sell cameras.

ahh, that's me reading too fast. i saw you say, "my parents own a retail store" and just thought it meant a camera store, but didn't follow up, with what type of store it was.

 

[jared_kipe]

Yes, that site is invaluable because Don Wiss really took the time to check out these places in person and what he shows is appalling. "Storefronts" which are nothing more than a street address of an old, falling-apart building....when you look up the names and addresses of some camera purveyors on the net, it's very interesting how a lot of them are owned by the same couple of guys and all have the same snailmail adddress! These indeed are the ones which advertise deals which are too good to be true because, well, they're NOT true. Order a camera from one of these and you'll more than likely get a grey-market item with just the camera body and none of the other usual essentials and parts that are supposed to come in the box -- no battery, no cables, no software.....


Wow, that's a neat photo of B&H! That place looks HUGE!! I guess it's more of a warehouse operation in some ways than a cozy, friendly store.... Very interesting!

Its so hard to tell who is male and female on message boards. People have avatars that are female, but are male. But it does say Demi-godess, not that I read it before replying.

 

[Wes Jordan]

There is no local Canon dealer in my city. What should I do? You must understand that it is not always possible to support a local store. The local camera store where I live would be rude to me if I walked in because I don't use Nikon. I refuse to be treated that way, and I am not the first to say this of that store.

 

[Hoef]

....

You work in one of the finest photo shops in Virginia. Never met you in person in the store but visited many times when I lived there. Does anyone have a recommendation for a great camera store in Houston?

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Thanks, Chip, on two counts! One being that you pointed out that I'm a "she" instead of a "he," as was erroneously posted in another post, and secondly that you guys consider me a valued customer in your store. I've been shopping there for, gosh, at least fifteen or twenty years, maybe longer.....and the reason I keep returning is that I've always had excellent service and transactions there. If I've had questions, they're always answered promptly and courteously, regardless of how silly or inane they might be. Heh, and another reason I enjoy going into that store is that, well, it's just plain FUN! Remember the night I had all of you guys trying to figure out what the mysterious item was in that abstract photo I showed you? Someone finally got it but only after I threw out some big hints...LOL!

Well you make me blush too.

For many us at the "shop" there are no silly questions, just the ones that go unasked. Maybe a silly answer from me though.

I love it when customers challenge us with tough questions or photos. I also love it when the what some call "amateurs" come back to me with images that would make some of green with envy. There is some awesome talent out there, they just don't realize it!

There is no local Canon dealer in my city. What should I do? You must understand that it is not always possible to support a local store. The local camera store where I live would be rude to me if I walked in because I don't use Nikon. I refuse to be treated that way, and I am not the first to say this of that store.

Shame on them for not realizing that not everything is Nikon. Surely there is a renegade in the shop that shoots Canon. Shopping is about relationships. I do not take offense if a customer comes back and wants to deal with someone else. You need to se if there is someone there that speaks your "language".

I make no bones about it, with six stores in our chain, some stores may have either a more Nikon or Canon centric focus. In the end I do hope that we meet the needs of the specific consumer, regardless of our own preferences.

You work in one of the finest photo shops in Virginia. Never met you in person in the store but visited many times when I lived there. Does anyone have a recommendation for a great camera store in Houston?

I do work at the Vienna/Tysons location, which I do feel personally is the crown jewel of the company. But I am biased IMO.

Outside of actually touching the product, I would hope that we could still be able to provide the service and support - even with you being in Houston.

 

[Wes Jordan]

Unfortunately they don't even sell Canon. I actually just bought a Canon 20d from Adorama. I am upset that all the online stores, B&H, Adorama, etc are closed for Passover and I won't likely get my camera until mid next week. Oh well, nothing wrong with a little more anticipation.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Unfortunately they don't even sell Canon. I actually just bought a Canon 20d from Adorama. I am upset that all the online stores, B&H, Adorama, etc are closed for Passover and I won't likely get my camera until mid next week. Oh well, nothing wrong with a little more anticipation.

You could have gone with a regional reseller like the shop I wok for. We were only closed for Easter Sunday.

I will wait for the mods to decide whether I can mention by the name the shop I work for. It does bother me that B&H and Adorama can be mentioned freely; but I feel hemmed in by not being able to mention my shop by name. Since I am not paid via commissions, I am am on flat salary, I don't see a problem in being open about who I work for.

 

[Clix Pix]

Unfortunately they don't even sell Canon. I actually just bought a Canon 20d from Adorama. I am upset that all the online stores, B&H, Adorama, etc are closed for Passover and I won't likely get my camera until mid next week. Oh well, nothing wrong with a little more anticipation.

Many of the stores in and around NYC are owned and operated by Orthodox Jews, therefore they faithfully keep all of their religious holidays and the Sabbath (Sundown Friday - all day Saturday), unlike most retail establishments elsewhere. In my area most stores are open just about all of the time with the exception of Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's and Easter.

Yes, I'm sure that it would be annoying if one is ready to order something online because of the perceived convenience, only to discover that the facility is actually closed on Saturdays and religious holidays, whereas one could hop in the car and go to a local store and find it open during those times.

 

[Clix Pix]

There is no local Canon dealer in my city. What should I do? You must understand that it is not always possible to support a local store. The local camera store where I live would be rude to me if I walked in because I don't use Nikon. I refuse to be treated that way, and I am not the first to say this of that store.

How interesting....you mean this store sells ONLY Nikon products? They seem to be limiting themselves, don't they?

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

How interesting....you mean this store sells ONLY Nikon products? They seem to be limiting themselves, don't they?

This is not as strange as it seems. Many years ago there were shops that sold only Kodak products. The courts struck that down. There was a shop in the Beltsville area that tried to specialize on MF and LF cameras. We only have to look at our won Apple stores, and the Sony "Style Stores" to see the handwriting on the wall.

 

[Wes Jordan]

How interesting....you mean this store sells ONLY Nikon products? They seem to be limiting themselves, don't they?

Well to be honest they also sell Olympus or whatever the brand with the 4/3 mount is. But who would want one of those? The images are as noisy as a P&S. Regardless, they don't sell what I want and I am certainly not going to go to Best Buy and pay $200 more than I just did at Adorama for a shopping experience that I loathe. Every time I go in there I have a bad experience.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Well to be honest they also sell Olympus or whatever the brand with the 4/3 mount is. But who would want one of those? The images are as noisy as a P&S. Regardless, they don't sell what I want and I am certainly not going to go to Best Buy and pay $200 more than I just did at Adorama for a shopping experience that I loathe. Every time I go in there I have a bad experience.

Have you printed images from the 'high noise" Olympus 4/3's DSLR's? I have a Panasonic LX1/Lieca D-Lux 2 camera. Many have complained about the noise on this series. I have done 13x19's from ISO 400 images, and I have no complaints. The results are much better than what I could expect with Tri-X or most any 400 ISO color film. IMO the Olympus 4/3's system would blow away the results from my P&S.

The issue is with what I call "pixel peeping". At 200%+ there will be performance differences. The likes of Noise Ninja will lessen the results of noise for those that want ISO 100 results at ISO 400+.

I wish you the best of luck with Adorama with any questions you have with making the most of your purchase. As mentioned, if you require warranty repairs; hope that you don't mind spending the time and money is following up. Time is money. So maybe the $200 you saved might cost you more in the future.

 

[discoforce]

My $.02: It's always better to buy locally at a brick and mortar store (no, big box stores don't count - 99% of their money leaves town ASAP). There's always a cost associated with "cheaper" items, and whether that money is coming from loss of service, or loss of jobs, it comes from someone. [/soapbox]

So on that note: I was pleasantly surprised to find that my little state does have a good local camera store. I grew up in DC and was used to having quite a few local options, but it was took some searching up here.

After several weeks of online research, I went to the shop today, talked to the extremely knowledgeable folks, picked up a several camera and lens combos, and made everyone's day by leaving with my new baby: A Nikon D50. (though it was hard to put down the D200...)

It cost me a little bit more than buying online, but I got it immediately and have a place to go ask questions, sell my older stuff, and just generally have folks that will help me out if I need it. Definitely worth it IMHO.

Good luck to all, whatever you decide. I'm happy with my decision.