Goodbye Adobe

[robgendreau]

I suspect there's a reason no one has come up with an organizational tool like Lr or Photos in recent years. Probably one reason is that wouldn't pay, given Lr's head start. And there seems to be more money in adding YA editing tool. I had hopes maybe someone would come up with something completely new, maybe based in part on AI searching. But nah. Sheesh, even PM said they were gonna do a DAM...years ago. Each new entrant to the editing arena seems to mention a DAM as vaporware.

If you are one of those who wants to dump Adobe, and you have got Affinity or Luminar or Pixelmator or whatever, you are in a different kind of workflow than Lr/Photos. The former are based on layers storing info, and the use of proprietary formats to store those, while Lr/Photos are parametric editors. No layers. So for the layer-apps you're gonna need a browser anyway to access those, especially if you wanna work non-destructively with them. Problem is, most photo browsers won't preview those files. The AP or Luminar files are proprietary, and I dunno if they even preserve exif/IPTC info like PSD does. When I tested I seem to recall I couldn't find it with a Get Info or Spotlight search like I could with PSD. PM will at least see .afphoto files, but can't add keywords to 'em. It doesn't even see .lmnrs. But Graphic Converter can add keywords to .afphoto files. Have no idea where it stores them, but the Finder can find them. Extended attributes maybe?

So to find those AP or Luminar files you might wanna try Finder tags in addition to say IPTC keywords. A handy application for that is Leap. You can use it to add Finder tags, which could be similar to your IPTC keywords (but Finder tags don't do hierarchies). It can't add IPTC keywords, but it DOES find them. And it does preview .afphotos and .lmnrs, and do QuickLook on them.

Another good option might be the venerable Graphic Converter. Been around forever, and it has a rather unique interface, but it can do an awful lot. For example, it's the only thing I know that can do HEIF/HEVC conversions (on 10.13) that isn't Apple. It can preview .afphoto images and show their icons (but not .lmnrs). And as I noted, it seems to be able to add keywords, and maybe other stuff; I haven't tried. The browser is quite nice, and it can edit RAW using it's own RAW conversion (well, dcraw I think). It can also do geotagging and whole mess more. Might be worth a look for the Adobe expatriots.
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In what way? They all still work on my Mac as directly plugins or via Luminar if you start with Luminar.

I asked Macphun about it, as both Aurora and Luminar are getting updates, and CK is stagnant.

They said:

"As far as I can see in our records, you have the latest version of Creative Kit bundle 2016.

Currently, we are busy on developing the new cross-platform version of Luminar and Aurora HDR (PC and Mac).

Once we release the versions of Luminar and Aurora HDR, we'll consider the possibilities of creating the new updates for Creative Kit apps as well.


However, we do not have any exact information at the moment.



Please note that Luminar and Creative Kit bundle are different software.

While Creative Kit represents a terrific collection of separate tools - each powerful in their own right - Luminar is truly an all-in-one photo editing solution. There are many advantages to owning Luminar, such as:


● Fully adaptable Workspaces which act like “Personal Darkrooms” to give you just the tools you need for the type of photo youʼre working on

● Our most modern and up-to-date set of enhancement filters

● Macphunʼs most advanced layering, brush and masking system


At the same time, Creative Kit continues to offer functionality in Focus and FX Photo Studio that is not (yet) in Luminar. Also, Snapheal has several erasing modes, and Luminar has only one, Tonality has more dedicated black and white presets, etc."
​

I take that as a sign CK isn't gonna be updated. So if you paid for those plugins, the implication is you move to say Luminar for new features. The CK ones still work. But I sure wouldn't buy CK plugins right now.

 

[MCAsan]

I have had CK, Aurora, and Luminar since they were launched. CK apps still have a greater range, depending on the type of app. No problem to launch them as needed from Luminar and bring the edits back.

All I want from Macphun is the DAM before the end of the year as promised.

 

[ChrisA]

After importing is done into subfolders, what day to day management of the images needs to be done?

Simple task like "Find all the images of Moray Eels shot over the last 4 years with four of more star ratting"

This is just an example. Anyone who wants to pull similar images that were shot over a long time and has more then say 10,000 of them to hunt through. Or maybe you need a "typical beach sunset" but you don't know which beach or what year. Basically ANY kind of search based on content

 

[bdasgupt]

Has anyone looked at Darktable (http://www.darktable.org/) which is free ?

 

[MCAsan]

Yes and Picktorial, ACDDsee,......etc. You can find threads and websites where folks have been through them all.

 

[robgendreau]

Simple task like "Find all the images of Moray Eels shot over the last 4 years with four of more star ratting"

This is just an example. Anyone who wants to pull similar images that were shot over a long time and has more then say 10,000 of them to hunt through. Or maybe you need a "typical beach sunset" but you don't know which beach or what year. Basically ANY kind of search based on content

We're a ways from that on the desktop. Apple can content search for some stuff at least, but it's like what? 4400 terms? Google Photos is the best; it might actual find a moray eel (don't have such a photo to test, but it's scary what it can find...if you're willing to upload stuff for it to work on. Too bad it can't download a set of keyword sidecars to import). Flickr has pretty good content search as well, at least in that context.

But you could keyword "eels, Moray" and used keywords in lieu of star ratings (stars aren't standard IPTC, and so are problematic for searching, so use keywords like "one*", etc). Then, since dates are already in the Spotlight index, a smart folder could find those eels. I think Photos can currently can find beaches, and ocean though just via content search. It can find my trees, and it found shoes easily (in my photos; not in the house...yet). Here's the list of stuff (covers types of memories too):https://writekay.github.io/Updated-Photos-App-Recongnizes-Thousands-of-Objects/

BTW, the list is funny to read. No eels, but it can find fondue or kale.

 

[ignatius345]

I know Photos is not a "pro-level" tool, but for my use (enthusiast with a mix of dSLR, Micro 4/3 and iPhone photos), the killer feature in Photos is iCloud, and the fact that my entire photo library is viewable on my phone or either of my Macs at any time. That means I can prune and edit my library on a subway train or wherever, do my more comprehensive edits in Photoshop on my 5K iMac, and know that the edits will sync back to iCloud and show up everywhere.

Small adjustments and crops I do with the Photos app, and I use Photoshop for RAW processing and any more extensive retouching. If I didn't have a Creative Cloud subscription, though, I'd be looking very hard at Affinity Photo right now. I do have about 20 years experience with Photoshop, though, so that's a lot of muscle memory to re-learn

 

[maflynn]

I now use Affinity Photo on Mac and iPad. Hard to beat the cost. I do have the Macphun apps setup as plugins.

I thought you were using ON1 Photo RAW? What happened?

 

[MCAsan]

Too many broken promises at On1. Serif seems too focused on getting their Publisher out the door to build a good DAM (their version of Bridge) that can manage the libraries of files used by Photo, Designer, and Publisher. They will likely release Photo 1.6 in September.

But all bets are off when I seen the Macphun DAM that they promised by the end of 2017. I hope that does not turn out be be another broken promise.

 

[steve123]

Too many broken promises at On1. Serif seems too focused on getting their Publisher out the door to build a good DAM (their version of Bridge) that can manage the libraries of files used by Photo, Designer, and Publisher. They will likely release Photo 1.6 in September.

But all bets are off when I seen the Macphun DAM that they promised by the end of 2017. I hope that does not turn out be be another broken promise.

Serif made the mistake of getting distracted with a windows app. Macphun caught the same disease. It is mid 2017 so there is still a chance Macphun will pull it off and release a DAM. Though I have heard nothing regarding progress or about a beta. I made an inquiry a while back asking to become a beta tester. Their response was:

Unfortunately, we already have a full beta-testing team for Luminar. However, I will add you to the list, so that we can reach you and ask for help for our future applications.

I have not been asked yet, sigh. I wonder if that tells us anything. ;-)

 

[MCAsan]

Serif made the mistake of getting distracted with a windows app. Macphun caught the same disease. It is mid 2017 so there is still a chance Macphun will pull it off and release a DAM. Though I have heard nothing regarding progress or about a beta. I made an inquiry a while back asking to become a beta tester. Their response was:

Unfortunately, we already have a full beta-testing team for Luminar. However, I will add you to the list, so that we can reach you and ask for help for our future applications.

I have not been asked yet, sigh. I wonder if that tells us anything. ;-)

I hope it is not telling us that we can not trust a commitment that is still in writing on their website. One of the Macphun staff on Facebook started to tell me that a DAM was hard....and hinted that we could not depend on the commitment. At least Adobe consistently does not either promise or deliver.

 

[steve123]

I hope it is not telling us that we can not trust a commitment that is still in writing on their website. One of the Macphun staff on Facebook started to tell me that a DAM was hard....and hinted that we could not depend on the commitment. At least Adobe consistently does not either promise or deliver.

LOL ... almost verbatim what the guys over at Affinity said about a DAM after flapping their gums about working on one. Of course its hard. Sheez. The upside however is that it becomes a significant competitive barrier to others. That is why there are so many people still using Aperture. If it was easy, we would have all moved on long ago.

Thanks for the info. I almost took the plunge on Luminar but I learned my lesson with Pixelmator and both Affinity apps. Just hold on until they actually do it.

I wonder if APFS will do something wonderful for us?

 

[MCAsan]

At On1 they provide a browser for folders and subfolders. But no import feature. So you have to do it manually or use something like Photo Mechanic (that costs more the most photo editors).

 

[Reality4711]

You know what!

The vast proportion of all this file/search etc. is in fact complete rubbish.

If you take a photo for money you put it in a file.

Put them in a file. Name the file. It then can be found.

Problem????

None

 

[robgendreau]

You know what!

The vast proportion of all this file/search etc. is in fact complete rubbish.

If you take a photo for money you put it in a file.

Put them in a file. Name the file. It then can be found.

Problem????

None

In a "file"? You mean folder? Problem; yep. But I imagine that works for some.

Indeed, that solution, the freebies like Photos, and the ubiquitous Lr have probably saturated any market for a new DAM. Aperture probably got dumped for a reason. And there's iMedia Pro, which MS dumped by selling it to Phase One, where it kinda isn't going far, and maybe was only acquired so they could roll parts into Capture One.

I don't blame the editor developers for not working on a DAM. Seems they sell enough product without it, esp considering all the free ways to organize, from Lr (without Develop) to Photos to the aforementioned files.

 

[Reality4711]

In a "file"? You mean folder? Problem; yep. But I imagine that works for some.

Indeed, that solution, the freebies like Photos, and the ubiquitous Lr have probably saturated any market for a new DAM. Aperture probably got dumped for a reason. And there's iMedia Pro, which MS dumped by selling it to Phase One, where it kinda isn't going far, and maybe was only acquired so they could roll parts into Capture One.

I don't blame the editor developers for not working on a DAM. Seems they sell enough product without it, esp considering all the free ways to organize, from Lr (without Develop) to Photos to the aforementioned files.

HMMMMM. good catch. Congratulations.

 

[MCAsan]

And without Lr Library, Bridge, or Photo Mechanic how do you automate an import process that copies files to designed folders and subfolders (rules based), does file renaming (rules based), and modifies IPTC fields (rules based)? No simple file system browser will set your images with the names you want located in the desired folders.

That is the question set to put to every editor maker who wants to be more than a plugin to Lr.

 

[Alexander.Of.Oz]

And without Lr Library, Bridge, or Photo Mechanic how do you automate an import process that copies files to designed folders and subfolders (rules based), does file renaming (rules based), and modifies IPTC fields (rules based)? No simple file system browser will set your images with the names you want located in the desired folders.

That is the question set to put to every editor maker who wants to be more than a plugin to Lr.

Couldn't you create a script with Automator to do this sort of thing? I'm not experienced with it, so have no idea what it's capable of.

 

[MCAsan]

Watch the video and tell me if you want to write a Automator script that does all the file system work and then opens and edits fields within the image files. Personally I want proven solutions.

 

[Alexander.Of.Oz]

Watch the video and tell me if you want to write a Automator script that does all the file system work and then opens and edits fields within the image files. Personally I want proven solutions.

I suspect that at a price point of $150 US, Photomechanic will be out of reach of most folks.

I will admit, it is a good program, if used correctly. I used to have a trial copy, but stopped using it when it came time to make the purchase and instead shifted to Lightroom, which works equally as well for me. I still have my images arranged in year, month, day and topic folders for easy navigation.

I won't enter into a diatribe about using Lightroom or claiming it to be the best thing since sliced bread, but will just say that I love it for its simplicity and effectiveness of use. I also don't have a problem leasing the Adobe package.

Each to their own, I say. So, if Photomechanic works perfectly for you and the way you do things, more power to you!

 

[Ledgem]

Good to see people are still deliberating this... because every few months I do a search to see if there's a good solution, but it's almost always the same. I'm still using Aperture, too, but I know the support won't last forever. It already lacks abilities to edit RAW files from my upgraded camera.

I'm wonder if I was using Aperture "correctly." For me, it was basically a photo editor and photo library manager (DAM). That worked really nicely, but it's arguably straddling the line between both. A pure DAM - something like Adobe Bridge, or Capture One's Media Pro - has no editing capabilities, but can link in to other programs that do. Some would argue that you shouldn't keep all of your photos loaded in programs like Aperture, LightRoom, or Capture One, because performance slows down quite a bit; you can divide your library and archive older photos, but then you're moving away from having a true photo library. And while Aperture's editing capabilities were wonderful for me, but are very elementary compared to programs like Photoshop, Pixelmator, or Affinity Photo (all of which are overkill for what I was doing).

I originally shied away from using Photos as a replacement for Aperture because its editing capabilities were very weak, but more recently I find myself wondering if perhaps Photos could be a good DAM, and if the Aperture model of doing edits directly within the application is flawed or less optimal. (And even if it isn't, macOS 10.13 will bring some changes to Photos regarding linking to external photo editors that should make the editing process better.)

This will probably be my last year with Aperture. If macOS 10.13 makes enough good changes with Photos, and if it seems like separating editing from a DAM is the way to go, then I might just shift over to Photos as Apple seemingly intended for us to do. Otherwise, if DAMs don't materialize from Serif or MacPhun, I'll probably head over to Capture One.

 

[v3rlon]

Has anyone looked at Darktable (http://www.darktable.org/) which is free ?

Tried it, but didn't like it. I forget what quirk it was that really turned me away aside from the UI, but there was something that had me thinking "why in the world would anyone want that?

Its free. Try it. You may feel differently. I didn't care for Lightroom either, as far as it goes.
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Simple task like "Find all the images of Moray Eels shot over the last 4 years with four of more star ratting"

This is just an example. Anyone who wants to pull similar images that were shot over a long time and has more then say 10,000 of them to hunt through. Or maybe you need a "typical beach sunset" but you don't know which beach or what year. Basically ANY kind of search based on content

Assuming you assign keywords, you could do most of that in Photos (or any DAM you would bother installing). If you are crap with keywords, no software can save you.

Assign keyword "Moray Eel"
Assign keyword with 4 stars (there is a great video out there where you can assign emoji stars as a keyword. You set up some hotkey thing, and it is just as fast as 1-5 in LR. I tend to delete anything less than 3 stars anyway).
They're already arranged by date.

Or search for Sunset keyword, or beach.

Again, as long as you are good with your keywords, most DAMs can help you find what you need. You could even do it with tags and Win Explorer or Finder.

 

[MCAsan]

It does seem like MacPhun has abandoned some of the older apps.

Like Adobe has done to Lightroom?

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Like Adobe has done to Lightroom?

You think so?

 

[macintoshmac]

You think so?

He hasn't heard of Nimbus.
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Like Adobe has done to Lightroom?

Adobe has acknowledged they need to speed up their program.