Goodbye, Apple

[maflynn]

Constantly seeking innovation just leads to disappointment,

I think we were spoiled by Apple, because they had an incredible run that no company in history has ever accomplished.
The company:
Rolled out the Apple II, and changed the industry.
The Macintosh redefined what a computer did
The iPod became an industry lead
The iPhone changed the mobile phone market
The iPad reinvigorated the tablet market.

Apple became a leader in three different markets (computers, music, and cell phones).

At this point, I think the media, wall street types, consumers and geeks like us, have gotten so used to Apple introducing some revolutionary product, we expect them do that all the time.

Its almost like we're a bit jaded over how hard it really is to innovate a new product.

btw, I'm just as guilty regarding this jadedness

 

[I7guy]

Some people might want Windows compatibility so there machines runs software that runs on 99% of the worlds computer. I'm such a person. If Apple put an arm in their computers; I wouldn't buy one ever.

@maflynn the original IBM PC also changed the face of the computing world and look where it went. That was the old IBM not the new IBM. /ot

 

[maflynn]

@maflynn the original IBM PC also changed the face of the computing world and look where it went. That was the old IBM not the new IBM. /ot

I know, but we're not talking about IBM's innovation (which is incredible in it's own right), but rather Apple's.

 

[CrashX]

My bad. I'm sitting here typing on a laptop that can run just about every OS I wish to run at the same time - switch out with the swipe of my trackpad. And I can buy a little "lipstick" battery and run a hotspot, answer calls, reply to messages, emails, whatever. The tech is just amazing and already seems to be more powerful than anything I could ever need.

I got spoiled with the innovation - basically became a tech "junkie" - WOW!!! It was fun to want things.

So I'm actually just lucky to be happy with what I have. Sure, I'd love to be excited - but hey, maybe I won't need anything new for 10 years. Nothing bad about that or wrong with that.

And it's probably just my age factoring in also. I remember spending hours pouring through ridiculously thick PC catalogs, imagining what AWESOME machine I could build. Then I got hooked on Macs in college, where I switched to what I could create WITH these incredibly powerful machines.

So it was awesome. Now I guess I'm just old and boring and therefore bored. So my bad. No doubt there's a new generation that's psyched about stuff that just doesn't interest me.

 

[Marshall73]

Fair enough

 

[smirking]

I got spoiled with the innovation - basically became a tech "junkie" - WOW!!! It was fun to want things.

You're going to have lots of new things soon. There's this IoT thing and healthcare personal tech is likely to get a lot more interesting within five years. That's why Apple is so focused on HomeKit and HealthKit. That's the direction innovation is going.

The healthcare angle is what I'm most excited about. Just don't expect some guy to walk onto a stage and BOOM we have a healthcare tech revolution. I'm excited that a company like Apple is putting its weight behind Healthkit. Five years from now, I there'll be greater convergence between wearable personal tech and clinical tech. Technology has changed the way we live. Within 10 years, it'll change the way we heal. But it's going to happen slowly.

So, I thought about the Apple Watch, but bought a Fitbit Blaze instead. That's a better device for me. I need a watch that's mostly an activity tracker and has a longer battery life than an Apple Watch. So naturally, I must think the Apple Watch sucks. Nah, I think it's pretty cool, but it's not right for me yet. Even though I didn't buy it, I'm benefitting from its presence. There's no way I'd have the opportunity to own a Fitbit Blaze if Apple hadn't helped to define the wearable tech consumer goods market and made it seem like a viable market. Ya think Google Glass got us here?

It's not surprising that the heart rate tracker on the Apple Watch is underwhelming. Any device that is tracking your pulse from the back of your wrist is bound to suck at it. My Fitbit Blaze sucks at it too and every review I read for wrist based activity trackers are critical of the accuracy of the heart rate monitor when used while doing anything more vigorous than walking around the block. If the back of your wrist was an ideal place to take pulse readings, those Polar watches would have ditched the chest strap years ago.

 

[navaira]

I don't think innovating is as simple as firing Tim Cook and employing... erm... whom? How many visionaries are there floating around just waiting to be hired? As much as I am not impressed with Apple's current products, especially Macs, I don't really know what they could invent next. Most of the products on Earth have reached maturity stage. Sure, you can add Siri to Macs, make the screen wrap around the phone, drop a physical button and use the screen as fingerprint reader, but is this something that I need in my life? The first iPod, iPhone, iPad were devices I have never seen before. The Watch came after many Android companies quickly put something together because of a rumour Apple might be making one. My interest in Apple Car is non-existent. VR might one day get to the point where I can't possibly live without it, but it's not there yet.

What can they do further? Make the phones and laptops (and, Gods forbid, desktops...) thinner? A 10% speed increase? Is that really exciting to anyone? The OLED bar on MBP sounds quite interesting, but is it going to change my life? I agree with @smirking – HealthKit sounds awesome and hopefully will develop further and further. If you were placed in Cook's seat, @CrashX, what would your inventions and innovations be? If you've got some great ideas why not mail them to tcook@apple.com?

 

[CrashX]

If you were placed in Cook's seat, @CrashX, what would your inventions and innovations be? If you've got some great ideas why not mail them to tcook@apple.com?

Well, I'd buy up whatever was required to offer cable-cutters whatever channels they wished a la carte with no hassles, a premium Apple approach. Then there's high-end console gaming - and avoid VR like the plague that is 3D. I don't wish to see people walking around looking like Cyborgs. Or create a VR experience that doesn't require "goggles". Who ever thought smartphones would have no keyboards?

And create a much higher end social network than FaceBook that's subscription rather than advertising based, so that people might trust that Apple will at least try to keep their information and conversations "private". My Mom is only on Facebook because of the iPad - so no clue why they haven't already done it. They blocked Flash because it was too power-hungry, and - from what I understand - Facebook apps are really bad about chewing up batteries and bandwidth.

Then let the fragmentation of Android eat itself up, lacking the tight integration Apple can offer.

Also, HealthKit might sound awesome - but "Have you or a loved one been seriously injured..." Might as well rename it LawsuitKit.

You asked Those are my idiotic "innovative" ideas - have Apple do what they do best, take over existing markets, offering tighter integration and ease of use.

Or... just keep tossing out stupid gimmicks and "luxury" watchbands?

 

[navaira]

I see your point(s). But those are things that already exist – gaming consoles, social networks, etc. Google, Ello, Diaspora and dare I say Ping & Connect tried to compete with other social media and they failed for a very simple reason – they don't have a billion users. I tried to use Ello for a while but my friends weren't on it. Same with Google+. It's not so easy to create a high end social network (which I am very unhappy about because I have a love/hate relationship with Facepoop – I would love to use something else but nothing comes remotely close with user base).

What I would like to see is what you mentioned towards the end – I want Apple to do what they do best. Create Macs that eat Dell XPS 13 for breakfast. Thunderbolt Display that makes you feel you've never really lived until you used it. iPhones with two-day batteries (and no iHump). Fix the mess that Apple Music (and iTunes) is and take over Spotify, TIDAL and others without even trying too hard and "sharing" adverts with Taylor Swift and Drake – just because the product is vastly superior. Refine existing products to the point where competitors just look like miserable copycats.

(And never ever devote time during a keynote to watch bands and emojis. NEVER.)

 

[pat500000]

So what computer company has the innovation you want, and that's missing from Apple?

I'm also curious to know what that innovation is missing from Apple that others have.


I've been critical of Apple with their innovation, but I wouldn't say its dead. I'd say its going in a direction that you disagree wth. Take the retina MacBook, it took a lot of innovation to create a touchpad, and keyboard to fit the form factor that they were shooting for.

Personally, Apple's focus on thin designs, and gluing their computers together is not something I like and I may look somewhere else for my next laptop, but then I try to fit the best tool for my need, not something based on which has the coolest logo on the back


Seriously, Apple is a multibillion dollar company that makes electronics. I don't know why people need to be emotionally involved. If you are emotionally tied to a company (any company) you will be disappointed. iPhones, Macs, iPads, they're all tools to get a job done, not something to fawn over.
[doublepost=1465990815][/doublepost]I'd also like to add this thought.
Innovation is not something that you can flip on like a switch. Apple, Google, Microsoft, expend billions in looking for the next big thing. Sometimes they swing and miss, sometimes they hit it out of the park. Apple has a number of guiding principles, and a lot of smart people, but that doesn't mean they're rolling out a product that you like. That doesn't mean innovation is dead, it just means what they produced isn't something you want.

I will say, that Steve Jobs represented a charismatic salesman, able to make things sound extremely exciting. Time Cook is the polar opposite, but then he is Job's hand picked replacement and if Jobs thinks Cook is up to the task...

Believe me, I'm not a fan of Tim Cook, but he has managed to run apple in a very measured manner that has increased revenue, sales and marketshare.

Back to the innovation, back when Apple was "exciting", they were a smaller company, and at times had to risk it all, to survive. Now they're the market leader, and a much larger company. Those transistions mean they don't always operate as quickly as they used too. More bureaucracy, more to lose etc etc.

Maybe this person is talking about better/competitive hardwares as innovation?

 

[smirking]

Also, HealthKit might sound awesome - but "Have you or a loved one been seriously injured..." Might as well rename it LawsuitKit.

The difficulties in dealing with regulatory and standards issues and just the general incredible intertia of American healthcare is precisely the reason why I'm very very interested in this area of tech now that Apple has thrown its hat into the ring. That industry needs someone with muscle to push things along. Telehealth and telemedicine have been stuck in a cycle of false starts and hype for over two decades.

This is why that's exciting, but unless you've ever been involved in healthcare info tech, stuff like HealthKit just looks like a cutesy gimmicky waste of time. That you don't always recognize forward thinking when you see it doesn't mean that innovation is dead.

 

[CrashX]

The difficulties in dealing with regulatory and standards issues and just the general incredible intertia of American healthcare is precisely the reason why I'm very very interested in this area of tech now that Apple has thrown its hat into the ring. That industry needs someone with muscle to push things along. Telehealth and telemedicine have been stuck in a cycle of false starts and hype for over two decades.

This is why that's exciting, but unless you've ever been involved in healthcare info tech, stuff like HealthKit just looks like a cutesy gimmicky waste of time. That you don't always recognize forward thinking when you see it doesn't mean that innovation is dead.

Over two decades? Wow, time really is running out. I'm calling the number on the screen and acting now! To think, all this time I've just been waiting for Apple to heal my blindness to whatever nonsense might be blocking the inertia of innovation in precisely this area of tech... muscle it on through, Tim!

And my apologies - I could be confused. I pulled out an old ladder to climb up and dust the blades on the lawn mower I've been using as a ceiling fan. But apparently some IDIOT had ILLEGALLY removed the tag from a mattress and taped it OVER the warning which would have helped prevent ME from losing my balance on the top rung.

So ah well... now my Hermés watch band is all bloody, lost a few fingers, and still suffering the concussion from my fall. Argh... I don't know what emoji could possibly express how I feel right now.

And to think this kind of stuff happens all over America, every day - just makes me wanna go stand in line for 2 hours at the airport to prove I'm not a terrorist. Might give me time to clear my head as to precisely what's WRONG with this crazy country...

Count me in on finding the solution, though. TWO DECADES? That's longer than I waited for my iPhone to prepare to update to iCloud, which never happened, so I had to cancel the update. Then I got all mad - yes, an over-reaction, but concussion, bloody watch band, and amputated fingers, so I wasn't in the best of moods - and I swiped to just turn OFF iCloud altogether... but thank GOD Apple told me the penalty for doing so would be to have my terabyte of information removed from all of my iDevices. It would suck to lose all that, especially after the day I've had.

I'm just gonna go take a nap. My lawyer advised me to consult with my doctor before even attempting to post this reply... plus I recently traveled to some foreign countries and once I might have had the flu.

PLEASE - just muscle this through already! Ah TOO LATE - #$*#!!! - now I've gone completely innovation blind.

 

[smirking]

PLEASE - just muscle this through already! Ah TOO LATE - #$*#!!! - now I've gone completely innovation blind.

My last comment wasn't meant as an idiot finger wag. It wasn't a personal attack.

When I said "That you don't always recognize forward thinking..." I didn't mean it as YOU specifically can't see innovation. I apologize for not wording that better. It wasn't meant to be a dickish statement. It was just a general statement that people often don't realize good ideas for what they are without the benefit of hindsight.

Now, is HealthKit a good idea? Hell if I know. It might be the most incompentently run department at Apple and end up being nothing but hot air, but people shouldn't be dismissing it as a marketing gimmick that's just being run to stall for time.

 

[CrashX]

My last comment wasn't meant as an idiot finger wag. It wasn't a personal attack.

When I said "That you don't always recognize forward thinking..." I didn't mean it as YOU specifically can't see innovation. I apologize for not wording that better. It wasn't meant to be a dickish statement. It was just a general statement that people often don't realize good ideas for what they are without the benefit of hindsight.

Now, is HealthKit a good idea? Hell if I know. It might be the most incompentently run department at Apple and end up being nothing but hot air, but people shouldn't be dismissing it as a marketing gimmick that's just being run to stall for time.

I didn't take it as a personal attack at all. Just goofing around here. I wish lawyers didn't muck everything up - but they do.

EDIT: Deleted random rant about iCloud.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I've bought my last computer and my last phone. I'm out.

These threads always make me laugh. Not really sure why eople feel the need to announce to a bunch of total strangers that they are changing technology platforms. Frankly, I neither know you, nor care what tech you choose to use.

Don't let the door hit ya ...

 

[CrashX]

These threads always make me laugh. Not really sure why eople feel the need to announce to a bunch of total strangers that they are changing technology platforms. Frankly, I neither know you, nor care what tech you choose to use.

Don't let the door hit ya ...

I didn't say I was changing platforms. I just now went off on a rant about my problems with iCloud - so I'm gonna shaddup.

Apple doesn't care about me, neither do strangers. Voicing concerns on a forum just allows me to find out if other long-time loyal customers are just as unhappy about the current direction.

EDIT: I seriously dislike iCloud, just dropping it as I'm "bent" about it right now. Gonna let the door hit me on the way out, now

 

[smirking]

EDIT: Deleted random rant about iCloud.

I know you deleted it, but it got me curious enough to look. I think it's a misunderstanding that Apple claims to own your iCloud assets.

It says quite plainly in the Terms and Conditions that they don't.
http://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/terms.html

Now it does say that they get a royalty free license to use your stuff for the purpose that it was originally intended for. I interpret that to mean that if they somehow manage to benefit materially from your photos being in iCloud that you can't claim that they took advantage of you and sue them for copyright infringement.

Another example would be if you're a world famous photographer. You have this one photo that you license out for $20,000 a pop. You store your photo in iCloud, but you accidentally forget to make it a private photo and now anyone can access the original file for that photo and download it for free. If you were that photographer, you might be really pissed and want to sue Apple for your photo being made available for free (even though it might have been your fault). In this sort of situation they could use that clause to claim that they had a royalty-free license to use your $20,000 image on iCloud as part of what iCloud does. In this case that would be to display a person's photos.

The exact same dust up happened on Facebook earlier this year resulting in everyone posting that silly "Dear Facebook. By me posting this message, I claim sole ownership of my photos..."

Anyway, I barely use iCloud so I didn't really know much about the things you were delete ranting about. I just know a bit about the part on licensing and ownership of media.

 

[CrashX]

I know you deleted it, but it got me curious enough to look. I think it's a misunderstanding that Apple claims to own your iCloud assets.

It says quite plainly in the Terms and Conditions that they don't.
http://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/terms.html

Now it does say that they get a royalty free license to use your stuff for the purpose that it was originally intended for. I interpret that to mean that if they somehow manage to benefit materially from your photos being in iCloud that you can't claim that they took advantage of you and sue them for copyright infringement.

Another example would be if you're a world famous photographer. You have this one photo that you license out for $20,000 a pop. You store your photo in iCloud, but you accidentally forget to make it a private photo and now anyone can access the original file for that photo and download it for free. If you were that photographer, you might be really pissed and want to sue Apple for your photo being made available for free (even though it might have been your fault). In this sort of situation they could use that clause to claim that they had a royalty-free license to use your $20,000 image on iCloud as part of what iCloud does. In this case that would be to display a person's photos.

The exact same dust up happened on Facebook earlier this year resulting in everyone posting that silly "Dear Facebook. By me posting this message, I claim sole ownership of my photos..."

Anyway, I barely use iCloud so I didn't really know much about the things you were delete ranting about. I just know a bit about the part on licensing and ownership of media.

Hey Smirking,

The deleted rant wasn't about "copyright" ownership.

I gave iCloud's "Photo Stream" a trial on my iPhone through iCloud. When I turned it off, Apple informed me that the photos would be deleted from the phone and from any other devices connected to iCloud.

I was then directed to iCloud.com, where I could re-download my photos, which I did. Apple was kind enough to give me 30 days - but whatever the time limit, the issue for me was that iCloud had been given "ownership" of the files and deleted them from my devices.

So the rant was concerning iCloud assuming some "master role" over the photos I allowed it to store. It was deleting, and did delete, the photos from my Mac and my iPhone, forcing me to go to iCloud to re-download them. And that process, with only a few photos, was a PITA. The best I could do to download them was "select all" by Event.

To me, that's seriously messed up. Imagine the mess I'd have been in if I'd bought a plan and uploaded ALL of my photos to "master" iCloud?

Maybe my experience was a fluke. I'm certain the gurus know more about it than I do.

But I wasn't upset about any "copyright" situation - I was upset about what I deem to be a very "buggy" cloud having ANY ability to "delete" data I've created from my devices.

And what concerns me even more is that Apple seems to be progressing more toward this "iCloud" master ownership of files. And expanding that ownership beyond its own apps.

I don't consider myself a "novice" - definitely not a "pro" - but it seems to be a very nefarious way for Apple to scare people into purchasing subscriptions, and continuing to expand those subscriptions for fear of mighty iCloud deleting their data because they "ran out of room".

In my case, I was on the free plan - only turned on Photo Stream - and it quickly over-ran my limits. So that's why I turned it off, was told by the software that the photos would be removed from all devices - and "poof".

Hopefully I'm very wrong and one of the gurus can clarify. But just NO way I would ever wish to allow even a non-buggy iCloud "master" control over my data.

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

Hope everyone has a great night - I'm crashing out

If anyone wishes to read what I consider to be the ominous, threatening messages - just go into iCloud and slide a toggle on anything you have stored through the service. To paraphrase - "Are you certain? Removing this data from iCloud will remove it from all connected devices."

To me, that's just straight messed up.

 

[I7guy]

Hey Smirking,

The deleted rant wasn't about "copyright" ownership.

I gave iCloud's "Photo Stream" a trial on my iPhone through iCloud. When I turned it off, Apple informed me that the photos would be deleted from the phone and from any other devices connected to iCloud.

I was then directed to iCloud.com, where I could re-download my photos, which I did. Apple was kind enough to give me 30 days - but whatever the time limit, the issue for me was that iCloud had been given "ownership" of the files and deleted them from my devices.

So the rant was concerning iCloud assuming some "master role" over the photos I allowed it to store. It was deleting, and did delete, the photos from my Mac and my iPhone, forcing me to go to iCloud to re-download them. And that process, with only a few photos, was a PITA. The best I could do to download them was "select all" by Event.

To me, that's seriously messed up. Imagine the mess I'd have been in if I'd bought a plan and uploaded ALL of my photos to "master" iCloud?

Maybe my experience was a fluke. I'm certain the gurus know more about it than I do.

But I wasn't upset about any "copyright" situation - I was upset about what I deem to be a very "buggy" cloud having ANY ability to "delete" data I've created from my devices.

And what concerns me even more is that Apple seems to be progressing more toward this "iCloud" master ownership of files. And expanding that ownership beyond its own apps.

I don't consider myself a "novice" - definitely not a "pro" - but it seems to be a very nefarious way for Apple to scare people into purchasing subscriptions, and continuing to expand those subscriptions for fear of mighty iCloud deleting their data because they "ran out of room".

In my case, I was on the free plan - only turned on Photo Stream - and it quickly over-ran my limits. So that's why I turned it off, was told by the software that the photos would be removed from all devices - and "poof".

Hopefully I'm very wrong and one of the gurus can clarify. But just NO way I would ever wish to allow even a non-buggy iCloud "master" control over my data.

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

Hope everyone has a great night - I'm crashing out

If anyone wishes to read what I consider to be the ominous, threatening messages - just go into iCloud and slide a toggle on anything you have stored through the service. To paraphrase - "Are you certain? Removing this data from iCloud will remove it from all connected devices."

To me, that's just straight messed up.

Your device is lost or stolen, this sounds like a protection mechanism.

 

[smirking]

but it seems to be a very nefarious way for Apple to scare people into purchasing subscriptions

I haven't dealt with iCloud enough to have any idea what's going on there, but I seriously doubt that they're trying to bully you into buying a subscription. Behaving like malware ransom crooks isn't a good business model for one of the most prominent companies in the world and would make them look awful all in the name subscriptions that would be negligible in their books.

 

[CrashX]

I haven't dealt with iCloud enough to have any idea what's going on there, but I seriously doubt that they're trying to bully you into buying a subscription. Behaving like malware ransom crooks isn't a good business model for one of the most prominent companies in the world and would make them look awful all in the name subscriptions that would be negligible in their books.

Well, the phone most definitely isn't stolen. If you happen to have Photos turned on through your phone, just go to Settings > iCloud > Photos. If you have Photo Stream enabled, simply "toggle" it off. You will then receive the message that I believed to be ominous, if not straight-out nefarious. You can "back out" and no worries.

And if you only have a few Photos, like I did, follow through with turning PhotoStream off and watch what happens.

I was so taken aback by the "behavior" that I called Apple - and was told that iCloud does indeed claim ownership of the files and will delete them. And did delete them.

I had to go to iCloud.com to go get them back. Re-download MY photos to my computer, where they'd also been removed.

In MY case, it was only about 3 dozen photos. But - I seriously hope a guru might step in and explain that it's NOT true -

But you can only imagine how upset you might be if you'd "subscribed" to a large plan and were forced to deal with "rescuing" a TON more photos, or books, or Pages documents -

I sincerely hope a "guru" might interject and correct me and the rep I spoke to regarding Apple's "policy" concerning iCloud "ownership" of MY files.

Until then - that's just straight-up scary. Thanks.

 

[Tech198]

It is much more efficient to work toward meeting your needs than to complain about failure. Complaining without offering solutions is inevitably a waste of time, while focusing on exploring your options will almost always result in finding something that will meet your needs.

True,,, My Retina is not needed and i'll go for the Air, and perhaps an iPad Pro next time.

 

[aristobrat]

I was so taken aback by the "behavior" that I called Apple - and was told that iCloud does indeed claim ownership of the files and will delete them. And did delete them.

I don't see how it would work any other way.

I pay Apple US$2.99/month for 200GB of storage, mostly for room to store my photos/videos (in iCloud Photo Library). I have 44,226 photos in my photo library, for a library size of 105.4 GB. The master copy of every photo is stored in iCloud, but I have Photos on my Mac set to "Download Originals to this Mac", so I also have a copy of each of them on my Mac, too (and they get backed-up regularly via Time Machine).

My iPhone and iPad are only 64 GB, and after the applications and everything are installed, there's far less free space for photos. Because iCloud "owns" the master copy of my photos and has them available in the cloud 24x7, I'm able to view/edit/organize/delete any of my 44,226 photos from my iPhone/iPad (without having to download the entire library), as well as from any computer with a web browser (through www.iclould.com).

I wish they'd disable Photo Stream. It was a cool one-way photo syncing feature a few years ago, but it doesn't guarantee that your photos stay in sync between different devices, and it doesn't let you edit/organize/delete photos on one device and have your work sync'ed over to your other devices. And since Photo Stream only holds the last 30 days of photos, I can see folks who don't remember to launch Photos on their Mac on a semi-regular basis having pictures "time out" in Photo Stream before they get copied to their Mac.

But with any cloud-based sync service that I've seen (like iCloud), the cloud acts as the master, and "owns" your photos, emails, contacts, calendar entries, etc as such.

 

[CrashX]

Thanks. Apparently, no one agrees with me - but the "other way" it SHOULD work is simply as a syncing "drive". If you buy a NEW device, then - oh, bother - yes, you'd have to hook it up to your "master" computer for the original "sync".

I've found iCloud to be extremely buggy. As you related, Photo Stream doesn't even work. Lately my contacts aren't even syncing either. I suspect this might be my "punishment" for turning off Photo Stream? I dunno.

As for 200GB or 1TB or whatever "plan" you choose - delete something and be punished by having it removed. There are tons of photos I enjoy having on my computer and backing up on Time Machine, etc. But I seriously don't wish to permanently store the 4K video I was nice enough to take of my friend's terrible band on really ANY machine. But I definitely don't wish to have it on my iPhone - but with iCloud "empowered" - I delete it on my phone, it's gone EVERYWHERE. Glad I already put the POS on a USB and handed it to them.

Syncing is fine - it's very helpful. But no, *I* own my stuff, not some buggy POS "master" cloud. NO WAY in HELL!

I'm also getting "up in years" to the point wanderlust is kicking in pretty hard. I hear quite a few "places" don't have Google Fiber yet?

Anyway, even on my 50Mb/s connection, iCloud is about as reliable as... it's just completely unreliable.

So no thanks. I've turned it off. And glad I caught on before I did any REAL damage. Best of luck to ANYONE attempting to recover ANYTHING from the "interface" provided via iCloud.com. Click click click click... yep, no master "Download All" for you! And oh yes, it's just BLAZING fast - not at all, whatsoever.

There are a ton of services that don't assume "ownership" of MY stuff. I'll use those instead. And it looks like I may be saying goodbye to all of the future OS's as well, as - apparently - they can't come up with anything "innovative" OTHER than having their horrible malfunctioning iCloud claim more and more of my stuff by default.

I'll have to stop using iTunes and iPhoto and every other iSoftware altogether to prevent Apple from iClouding (meaning transferring ownership to them) all MY stuff? That's gonna be the new "default"?

I seriously don't understand how people can find this acceptable?

An old USB 2.0 stick is infinitely faster (and oh, I *OWN* it) than "iCloud". No one needs it whatsoever - and the only way Apple can even trick anyone into THINKING they MIGHT need it is by not allowing iDevices to directly connect to CHEAP FAST external storage *WE* own.

What? I don't have to "plug in" my iPhone every night to charge it for the next day? Yeah, auto-syncing to my Mac is just such a HUGE inconvenience? Seriously?

Sorry, this just seems unbelievable to me. If the next OS versions "kick it up a notch" with this buggy iCloud-dependency idiocy - it won't be "Goodbye, Apple" - it will be, "Apple, seriously? KMFA!"

I don't see how it would work any other way.

I pay Apple US$2.99/month for 200GB of storage, mostly for room to store my photos/videos (in iCloud Photo Library). I have 44,226 photos in my photo library, for a library size of 105.4 GB. The master copy of every photo is stored in iCloud, but I have Photos on my Mac set to "Download Originals to this Mac", so I also have a copy of each of them on my Mac, too (and they get backed-up regularly via Time Machine).

My iPhone and iPad are only 64 GB, and after the applications and everything are installed, there's far less free space for photos. Because iCloud "owns" the master copy of my photos and has them available in the cloud 24x7, I'm able to view/edit/organize/delete any of my 44,226 photos from my iPhone/iPad (without having to download the entire library), as well as from any computer with a web browser (through www.iclould.com).

I wish they'd disable Photo Stream. It was a cool one-way photo syncing feature a few years ago, but it doesn't guarantee that your photos stay in sync between different devices, and it doesn't let you edit/organize/delete photos on one device and have your work sync'ed over to your other devices. And since Photo Stream only holds the last 30 days of photos, I can see folks who don't remember to launch Photos on their Mac on a semi-regular basis having pictures "time out" in Photo Stream before they get copied to their Mac.

But with any cloud-based sync service that I've seen (like iCloud), the cloud acts as the master, and "owns" your photos, emails, contacts, calendar entries, etc as such.

 

[aristobrat]

I've been using Apple's cloud services since 2005. It was called .Mac back then and cost $99/year. It switched to MobileMe a few years later, and then finally to iCloud.

I haven't run into any reliability problems, so I can't speak to your "buggy" cloud issues. I have never lost any data, although my Mac maintains a full copy of everything I have in the cloud, and my Mac is backed up by Time Machine, so I'm not worried about if the cloud ever does goof something up. I can easily recover.

If I took a 4K video of a friend that I didn't want to keep, within 10 minutes of me getting home and being on WiFi, iCloud Photo Library would have uploaded the video from my phone to the cloud, where it would have automatically downloaded into Photos on my Mac (because I have the "Download originals to Mac" option enabled). I'd simply go into Photos on my Mac, find the video, and drag it to the desktop. Then I'd delete it from Photos (on my Mac), which would then delete it from the cloud and my iPhone. I'd then copy the 4K video from a USB stick and give it to my friend. I don't see the hassle there.

Since I've enabled iCloud Photo Library on my iPhone, I've taken hundreds of videos and thousands of photos. And I've never once had to worry about deleting anything manually from my phone in order to free up space. iCloud Photo Library does that for me automatically. As soon as the new videos/photos I've taken on my iPhone have been uploaded to the cloud, iCloud Photo Library will remove them from my phone, if space is needed. But it does it in such a way that makes it look like those photos/videos are still on my iPhone. Actually, just like how it makes all 105 GB (44,000+) photos and videos in my library look like they're actually on my iPhone, when they're not. As soon as I try to open one that's not actually on my phone, it downloads it on the fly, and keeps it around until more space is needed later down the road. That's the magic part to me. Having all 44,000+ photos on a 64GB iPhone that's full with apps and music. Except they're actually not on the phone, but it feels like they are. It's also been great to be able to edit/organize these photos on any of my devices, and have that work show up automatically on all of my other devices. I'm no longer tethered to the Photos app on my Mac to edit/organize stuff, although I'm free to work there, if that's what I feel like doing.

As for recovering photos from iCloud, you could have just gone into Photos on your Mac, created a new library, enabled iCloud Photo Library, and then clicked the option that says "Download originals to Mac". That'd duplicate everything that's in iCloud Photos down to your Mac, automatically. Not sure how a "Download All" option would work in iCloud for someone like me, who has 44,000+ photos/videos stored in it. That'd be one big-ass zip file. But to your point, they should come up with a better method than all of the clicking that you did.

iCloud Photo Library came out with iOS 8/iOS 10.10, so not quite two years ago? It'll get better. Doesn't sound like it's a solution you need for how you do things, but might want to keep an eye on it.