Google, European Telecoms Giants Call on EU to Force Open iMessage

[Unregistered 4U]

With a device that can be profitable even if just sold to folks outside the EU, I wonder if the EU will ever see the Vision Pro? I mean, it’s getting to be where you avoid a lot of regulations/fines/headaches just by avoiding it. If there JUST so happens to be a mad dash of rich folks in the EU that actually likes it and buys it, BAM, Apple has a monopoly on Apple’s devices using Apple’s App Store in the EU.

It actually benefits Apple to keep their EU exposure as low as possible.

 

[SanderEvers]

iMessage in its current form can’t be made interoperable because it relies on a private key burned into every apple devices’ Secure Enclave during manufacturing to decrypt the incoming message. If you have an iPhone and iPad and someone sends you an iMessage you are actually getting 2 separate messages each encrypted with a different public key. This hardware specific feature is only found on apple silicon.

There is a solution to comply however:

(A) disable iMessage for all apple devices sold in the EU
(B) disable end to end encryption for iMessage for EU devices. All messages sent to devices sold in the region are plain text. Then install a gateway to forward messages from other messaging systems into/out of iMessage ecosystem.

So how is it possible then to see the messages on an intel Mac? Those don't have the "secure enclave" iOS/iPadOS does. Where the Messages app does exist on Mac. Honestly it should just be an option "Allow sharing messages using RCS"

Since the Messages app also works with SMS, adding a third service to it (RCS) shouldn't be a problem. Just as long as the User gets to decide which services to use.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I don't want to drift politically toward a commentary about the regulatory approach of the EU (and, by comparison, of the USA), but I think the main point here is that IM services and apps are used to communicate with OTHER PEOPLE; so, while I can use a note-taking app or a banking app nobody uses and have no drawback, with IM apps I am forced to use one everybody uses (otherwise I would be cut off from most people)...

Everybody uses SMS. OR, more correctly, everybody CAN use SMS. If you know their number, try it! Their carrier may end up charging them, but, hey, at least you’re not using the app they’re forcing you to use.

If you don’t know their number… you’re kinda cut off from them already

 

[unchecked]

The rest of the world just adopted cross platform messaging apps. This blue vs green thing is really unique to the States so it'll be interested to see why and how far EU gives a damn about this uniquely States problem.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

(A) disable iMessage for all apple devices sold in the EU
(B) disable end to end encryption for iMessage for EU devices. All messages sent to devices sold in the region are plain text. Then install a gateway to forward messages from other messaging systems into/out of iMessage ecosystem.

I think this would be a low cost low impact solution (for Apple). For users, if their carrier charges them… well, you got the regulations you voted for?

 

[BanjoDudeAhoy]

Why not regulate Apple to make an Android version of iMessage? That way people who want to use it can use it and it can keep it more secure.

To me, that sounds like the best option.

Though, as someone who lives in the EU, I find it odd that iMessage is seen as such a problem. I've lived in several different countries here and by far the most common messaging service in all of them has been WhatsApp.

Or is there something I missed here?

 

[NEPOBABY]

Google services are full of spying, scam and spam so they're just pissed off that Apple is cleaner and more secure.

Telecoms companies try to sell your browsing and metadata. They will even sell that data to criminals who destroy lives.

This whole argument is a waste of time.

By the time anything comes out of it there will be even newer standards than the ones that exist now.

Those new standards will need to come into force to combat the massive amount of scams calls, sim swaps and fraud.

I highly doubt Google or Microsoft will be the ones setting the standards to protect users considering those companies are infected with frauds anyway.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Since the Messages app also works with SMS, adding a third service to it (RCS) shouldn't be a problem. Just as long as the User gets to decide which services to use.

It wouldn’t be a problem if, like SMS, RCS was supported at the carrier. And the telecoms could very well make the upgrades required for that. But, that would cost them money that they’d never spend (and the EU regulators, that get paid by the EU telecoms, would never regulate them to do so).

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The rest of the world just adopted cross platform messaging apps. This blue vs green thing is really unique to the States so it'll be interested to see why and how far EU gives a damn about this uniquely States problem.

At this point, I think the EU is generally pissed at themselves for regulating so well over the last few years that all the companies that could have been bringing in all sorts of tech tax receipts were forced to leave the region. They can’t, at this point, go back on their bad ideas, so their mentality is to try to regulate the world.

The world is “playing along” for now, but I don’t doubt that new services and products will increasingly not be available in the EU. No company wants to finally hit that sweet spot of what people want vs what they’ll pay for and suddenly find themselves a “gatekeeper”, their company forced to do things for regulators rather than for their customers.

 

[RickDEGH]

This is BS. Maybe they should start with WhatsApp. I can’t get away from this because I’m in so many important groups and everyone is using this.

 

[boswald]

I’m so sick of companies who cannot compete whining to governments to change the rules. Either make a decent competitor people want to use or shut up. It’s getting really old.

 

[123]

Those is ridiculous. They just have a better product and invested in the right technology at the right time.

Noone uses it in Europe, it's crap.

The only reason Google are doing this is to get some arguments for the US market.

 

[eropko]

Remember back in the day they needed a court and trial for all this and easily could lose?

 

[McWetty]

WhatsApp is owned by Meta. It will never live on my iPhone. The only real solution to this problem is for Apple to bring iMessage to Android. That gives users choice and security.

 

[cwt2nospam]

Apple offered to let others join iMessages and FaceTime more than a decade ago. Now they want to join? Probably under their own terms, which would weaken its security. Google, for example, would only want to use it to help them track you.

 

[B4U]

Google shall go pound sand on this.
iMessage is an Apple product that have other competing product.

 

[kc9hzn]

I called it! I knew the EU didn’t give two whiffs about Google, so I said that the pressure had to be coming from European telecoms. Lo and behold, we find out that European telecoms are pushing for it!

 

[lkrupp]

Welcome to the EU where iOS is just another variant of Android. And of course Google is pushing this as part of their goal of shoving RCS down user’s throats. In the EU you are not allowed to think different, the EU will think for you.

 

[123]

iMessage in its current form can’t be made interoperable because it relies on a private key burned into every apple devices’ Secure Enclave during manufacturing to decrypt the incoming message.

You're brainwashed by Apple marketing. How the private key is handled doesn't matter to the encrypting party or the protocol. You can just create a private key that is stored somewhere else and nobody cares.

 

[lkrupp]

Are there any actual Apple users in these forums?

 

[kc9hzn]

To me, that sounds like the best option.

Though, as someone who lives in the EU, I find it odd that iMessage is seen as such a problem. I've lived in several different countries here and by far the most common messaging service in all of them has been WhatsApp.

Or is there something I missed here?

Google and the telecoms. Generally speaking, regulatory pressure often comes from market competitors. Regulatory capture seems to be an inherent aspect of the regulatory state (and basic logic would dictate that, of course that’s the case, who else would be motivated to have a say in regulatory proceedings, not to mention who bares the existential risk aggressive regulation poses to businesses?). Yet people blindly clamor for more regulation, continually failing to realize that more regulation means more power for politically connected businesses that can drive (and are strongly incentivized to drive) that regulation.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Time to shut down iMessage over there.

 

[Username-already-in-use]

Oh great, now scammers will be able to spam me via iMessage, thanks EU just what I always wanted.

 

[AndiG]

Why not regulate Apple to make an Android version of iMessage? That way people who want to use it can use it and it can keep it more secure.

Please don’t use the words iMessage and secure together.

I pray for the EU to kill Apples proprietary 💩 There should be an open protocol to communicate, like we have an open html protocol, so content can be viewed on different platforms with different browsers.

The only reason why Apple doesn‘t agree is that it sees itself falling behind competition.
If parents would give their children cheaper Android phones, they may stick to it.

Read it yourself from Apple:
“Craig Federighi … feared that ‘iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones,”

https://www.thurrott.com/apple/2489...ge-to-android-because-of-its-lock-in-strategy

 

[DarthDon]

Then every $200Android phone with spyware can receive and send IMessage? If it comes to that, everyone should (be able to) switch off IMessage.