iMac Pro Graphical glitches on new iMac Pro - driver issue or worse? Anyone else experiencing this?

[jtrwallace]

I just got the base iMac Pro with an upgraded Radeon Pro Vega 64 graphics card. So far, Diablo III exhibits the same issues, but perhaps that is due to Diablo III needing an updating. I have not yet experienced the graphical glitches in other apps detailed in my previous posts but I will post an update here one way or the other.

 

[DTVID]

I'm now several months on from the original purchase of my iMac Pro, and the issues I have experienced have not been fixed. I have always worked with the same workflows on my 2016 27" iMac and still use that machine. After having two iMac Pros with exactly the same spec, yet with different performance issues when working on FCPX with the same project, I am now convinced that there is a serious issue with the new Pro working with FCPX. I have had numerous discussions with Apple and sent a heap of data, and have asked for them to confirm that there is either a fixable glitch that has been identified, or to confirm that the unit is simply not ready for use with FCPX in an efficient way. I am sure that anyone walking into an Apple store today asking for the right machine to carry out multi cam video editing, will be sold a Pro, and if this is happening, with all the issues that have been identified, this is poor advice as the Pro is not fit for that purpose at the moment.

 

[joema2]

...After having two iMac Pros with exactly the same spec, yet with different performance issues when working on FCPX with the same project, I am now convinced that there is a serious issue with the new Pro working with FCPX. I have had numerous discussions with Apple and sent a heap of data, and have asked for them to confirm that there is either a fixable glitch that has been identified, or to confirm that the unit is simply not ready for use with FCPX in an efficient way...

The only performance problems I've seen with the two 10-core Vega 64 iMac Pros I've had is they are slower than a top-spec iMac 27 on certain H264 workflows: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...else-experiencing-this.2114157/#post-26148068

The iMP is faster on ProRes and RAW and on certain H264 workflows but it's definitely slower editing and exporting all 4k H264 variants I've tested in FCPX. As you said the iMP is not fast enough to allow smooth editing 4k H264 in FCPX without proxies, so it's no better than a 2017 iMac in that regard.

There is an intermittent FCPX brightness flickering problem due to color space mis-identification which has been reported on AVCHD and Sony XAVC-S that seems more common on the iMac Pro. The solution for that is manually re-flag all clips as REC 709.

There's an issue with the iMac Pro due to Secure Boot which can prevent booting from a clone drive or booting to network recovery. There's a common troubleshooting procedure whereby SMC and NVRAM is reset, then erase the hard drive and re-install macOS using Net Install. Due to Secure Boot, this will create an erased hard drive which you then cannot install macOS nor boot from an external clone. In Recovery, the iMac Pro has a new Startup Security utility which allows turning off Secure Boot. However IF this is not done before erasing the drive, the iMac Pro will become unbootable from either a clone or network recovery. It will allow booting and restoring a Time Machine backup. To my knowledge this is not well documented and Apple tier 2 escalation support was unaware of it. Details: https://scriptingosx.com/2017/12/imac-pro-implications-for-mac-admins/

The iMac Pro is very quiet and the extra CPU cores and faster GPU helps certain cases. However FCPX needs significant performance improvement to better utilize the AMD UVD/VCE transcoding hardware on H264 codecs. Also the special procedures due to the T2 security chip and Secure Boot feature should be better documented.

 

[DTVID]

The only performance problems I've seen with the two 10-core Vega 64 iMac Pros I've had is they are slower than a top-spec iMac 27 on certain H264 workflows: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...else-experiencing-this.2114157/#post-26148068

The iMP is faster on ProRes and RAW and on certain H264 workflows but it's definitely slower editing and exporting all 4k H264 variants I've tested in FCPX. As you said the iMP is not fast enough to allow smooth editing 4k H264 in FCPX without proxies, so it's no better than a 2017 iMac in that regard.

There is an intermittent FCPX brightness flickering problem due to color space mis-identification which has been reported on AVCHD and Sony XAVC-S that seems more common on the iMac Pro. The solution for that is manually re-flag all clips as REC 709.

There's an issue with the iMac Pro due to Secure Boot which can prevent booting from a clone drive or booting to network recovery. There's a common troubleshooting procedure whereby SMC and NVRAM is reset, then erase the hard drive and re-install macOS using Net Install. Due to Secure Boot, this will create an erased hard drive which you then cannot install macOS nor boot from an external clone. In Recovery, the iMac Pro has a new Startup Security utility which allows turning off Secure Boot. However IF this is not done before erasing the drive, the iMac Pro will become unbootable from either a clone or network recovery. It will allow booting and restoring a Time Machine backup. To my knowledge this is not well documented and Apple tier 2 escalation support was unaware of it. Details: https://scriptingosx.com/2017/12/imac-pro-implications-for-mac-admins/

The iMac Pro is very quiet and the extra CPU cores and faster GPU helps certain cases. However FCPX needs significant performance improvement to better utilize the AMD UVD/VCE transcoding hardware on H264 codecs. Also the special procedures due to the T2 security chip and Secure Boot feature should be better documented.

Thank you for that, and from what you are saying, there are clearly issues with FCPX. I do not understand the finer workings of a Mac, all I know, is that after working for years on a 27"Retina, the new Pro is not compatible with FCPX. The frame glitching is annoying in edit, and also manifests in a final film, thats if I can get it to produce using the Pro, as it will fail more times than not, and I have to plug into the older iMac to produce the movie. There is no way that anyone should have to re-format clips, especially when you work with hundreds, as this would simply be impractical. My case is well documented with Apple and has been escalated, so they should be well aware of the issues, as I have sent them a book worth of data and screen shots. They even sent the second iMac pro with the same spec, and more issues arose. Its very simple, the iMac Pro is not suitable for FCPX, and this should be made very clear to anyone looking to buy one.

 

[joema2]

...The frame glitching is annoying in edit, and also manifests in a final film, thats if I can get it to produce using the Pro, as it will fail more times than not...

Have you tried the latest FCPX 10.4.3 version, running on macOS 10.13.5? I didn't see any fixes listed for this but it's possible they fixed something related.

Can you give more details about the exact nature of the frame glitches, including codec and camera specifics? Can you post a very short clip showing that?

 

[DTVID]

Have you tried the latest FCPX 10.4.3 version, running on macOS 10.13.5? I didn't see any fixes listed for this but it's possible they fixed something related.

Can you give more details about the exact nature of the frame glitches, including codec and camera specifics? Can you post a very short clip showing that?

Hi, got the latest versions. Without wishing to be rude and thank you for your suggestion, but I have spent the last 3 months on almost a daily basis sending all sorts of data to Apple, who have been liaising with their technicians, and I only post up during the few minutes between editing as I have been put back by all what is going on. Do you work for Apple?

 

[jtrwallace]

Update on my iMac Pro base model with Pro Vega 64 graphics card:

Graphical glitches in random apps DO occur on this new machine, albeit with vastly lower frequency and with much less disruption to my work. I will now only see the glitch on the very edges of app windows and only once or twice a day instead of 40 times per day. I do, however, still experience some strange kernel panics. I have also come to my computer to find that it appears to be off (I never let my iMac Pro sleep, and have never let any desktop Mac sleep) and a normal click of the power button does not turn it on, nor does holding the power button for a while. I seem to have to do some voodoo clicking, holding, clicking fast, I'm not sure until I finally see the Apple Logo. During that time my external drives do not think the computer is on either.

There's got to be something seriously wrong with these computers and/or macOS. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they fix whatever bugs metal introduced in High Sierra.

 

[joema2]

...Do you work for Apple?

No but as 1st Asst. Editor on a documentary team I deal with the technical issues. I am very busy myself but when I see someone experiencing a similar problem I realize it might be worth the time to help them investigate. The knowledge obtained might be useful in a future time-critical situation. On our last film we had to quit using the iMac Pro and just finish it on an iMac. This was due to the FCPX graphical issues involving color space identification. On our upcoming project I will again try to use the iMac Pro. It is quieter and the GPU and extra CPU cores help certain effects.

 

[Bryan Bowler]

Hi, got the latest versions. Without wishing to be rude and thank you for your suggestion, but I have spent the last 3 months on almost a daily basis sending all sorts of data to Apple, who have been liaising with their technicians, and I only post up during the few minutes between editing as I have been put back by all what is going on. Do you work for Apple?

In a totally friendly way, I can vouch for joema2. Even though I don’t know him personally (in-person) I can say with certainty that he is a true working pro in the documentary industry and is among the most helpful forum members in all of MacRumors. He is extremely knowledgeable and he goes to great lengths to help others whenever he can. And he always does so in a way that does not stroke his own ego. He is super humble.

I’ve had my iMac Pro for 3 months now and have not run into the problems you’re experiencing, but I have been out in the field filming way more than I’ve been in the editing suite, so I’m not in a position to compare my experiences to yours. I understand your frustration with Apple though. Last year, I was experiencing some issues right after I upgraded to High Sierra (huge mistake on my part) and I gave a tremendous amount of time to Apple sending them numerous logs, etc so they could see the problem. I don’t mind helping Apple, but it got to the point that I was losing traction on my work and they were never even expressing any gratitude or giving me any indication that they were even working on the issues. It felt like a one-way street for sure and I finally threw in the towel and stopped. Anyway, I understand your frustration.

I really hope Mohave gets rid of the numerous core issues that MacOS has. With Apple’s track record though, I’m not confident anything will change. If that’s the case, 2019 may be the year that I finally abandon FCPX and Apple altogether. It hurts to say that, but things have been going downhill for 5 years and have only gotten worse.

 

[SecuritySteve]

In a totally friendly way, I can vouch for joema2. Even though I don’t know him personally (in-person) I can say with certainty that he is a true working pro in the documentary industry and is among the most helpful forum members in all of MacRumors. He is extremely knowledgeable and he goes to great lengths to help others whenever he can. And he always does so in a way that does not stroke his own ego. He is super humble.

I’ve had my iMac Pro for 3 months now and have not run into the problems you’re experiencing, but I have been out in the field filming way more than I’ve been in the editing suite, so I’m not in a position to compare my experiences to yours. I understand your frustration with Apple though. Last year, I was experiencing some issues right after I upgraded to High Sierra (huge mistake on my part) and I gave a tremendous amount of time to Apple sending them numerous logs, etc so they could see the problem. I don’t mind helping Apple, but it got to the point that I was losing traction on my work and they were never even expressing any gratitude or giving me any indication that they were even working on the issues. It felt like a one-way street for sure and I finally threw in the towel and stopped. Anyway, I understand your frustration.

I really hope Mohave gets rid of the numerous core issues that MacOS has. With Apple’s track record though, I’m not confident anything will change. If that’s the case, 2019 may be the year that I finally abandon FCPX and Apple altogether. It hurts to say that, but things have been going downhill for 5 years and have only gotten worse.

I have been testing Mojave on my laptop, as well as using it to make modifications to the GUI on one of the projects I am working on to fully embrace Dark Mode and Light Mode. I hate to report to you that as of the last update to Mojave, I have the following bugs:

1) Mail. Receiving a new email causes the application to crash.
2) Terminal. Characters in terminal become randomly bold, or a mix of bold and regular, resulting in very ugly text.
3) QuickTime. The application will not open.
4) Heat. The last update to Mojave causes my laptop to heat up as "coreaudiod" frequently causes one CPU core to peg momentarily.

Granted we've only had developer releases and updates, so some features might still be working their way to full implementation before Apple kills bugs, but we're looking at some pretty glaring bugs right at the get-go. Don't get your hopes up.

 

[DTVID]

No but as 1st Asst. Editor on a documentary team I deal with the technical issues. I am very busy myself but when I see someone experiencing a similar problem I realize it might be worth the time to help them investigate. The knowledge obtained might be useful in a future time-critical situation. On our last film we had to quit using the iMac Pro and just finish it on an iMac. This was due to the FCPX graphical issues involving color space identification. On our upcoming project I will again try to use the iMac Pro. It is quieter and the GPU and extra CPU cores help certain effects.

Thank you, and I hope you wasn't offended at me asking, I just wondered if you were in their circle. As it happens, I have just had confirmation from Apple that nothing further can be done, and they are refunding my money for the Pro. However, they want the Pro returned before ordering a new iMac, which will basically mean my business will collapse so can not be done! Would you have any objection if I quoted the issues your company had with the Pro for leverage with them?
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In a totally friendly way, I can vouch for joema2. Even though I don’t know him personally (in-person) I can say with certainty that he is a true working pro in the documentary industry and is among the most helpful forum members in all of MacRumors. He is extremely knowledgeable and he goes to great lengths to help others whenever he can. And he always does so in a way that does not stroke his own ego. He is super humble.

I’ve had my iMac Pro for 3 months now and have not run into the problems you’re experiencing, but I have been out in the field filming way more than I’ve been in the editing suite, so I’m not in a position to compare my experiences to yours. I understand your frustration with Apple though. Last year, I was experiencing some issues right after I upgraded to High Sierra (huge mistake on my part) and I gave a tremendous amount of time to Apple sending them numerous logs, etc so they could see the problem. I don’t mind helping Apple, but it got to the point that I was losing traction on my work and they were never even expressing any gratitude or giving me any indication that they were even working on the issues. It felt like a one-way street for sure and I finally threw in the towel and stopped. Anyway, I understand your frustration.

I really hope Mohave gets rid of the numerous core issues that MacOS has. With Apple’s track record though, I’m not confident anything will change. If that’s the case, 2019 may be the year that I finally abandon FCPX and Apple altogether. It hurts to say that, but things have been going downhill for 5 years and have only gotten worse.

Thanks Bryan, and I did reply to joema2 thanking him for his advice, I just was't sure of his background and being new to this forum, wanted to find out if he was with Apple. I wish I had a fraction of his knowledge, but I suspect I would be wasting his time trying to sort out something that Apple have now confirmed that can not fix! The Pro is being ditched in favour of a new iMac if Apple can actually sort out a way of replacing without completely destroying my business!

 

[joema2]

...I have just had confirmation from Apple that nothing further can be done, and they are refunding my money for the Pro. However, they want the Pro returned before ordering a new iMac, which will basically mean my business will collapse so can not be done! Would you have any objection if I quoted the issues your company had with the Pro for leverage with them?..

That's OK, but it's unclear we are facing the same underlying problem. In my case it currently appears to be an FCPX issue which had the strong appearance of a graphical hardware problem. The intermittent screen flickering on bright colors looked just like hardware. The workaround was to manually re-flag all clips as REC 709 color space, which seems to work. It took many weeks of effort to isolate this, during which Apple replaced the iMac Pro in case it was hardware (it seems it was not).

This case exposed a problem in Apple's symptom search call tracking system. This problem was originally reported early this year, so the symptoms should have been searchable in a call tracking tool, especially one used by tier 2 Pro Apps escalation support. It was not, which in turn produced a huge amount of wasted effort by various parts of Apple and myself trying to isolate it.

Other issues and frame grabs reported on this thread look like hardware -- when you have graphical garbage written on the screen that's the normal assumption. However maybe some kind of device driver or low-level software problem with the AMD GPU is causing it. In that case maybe a software fix is possible. macOS 10.13.4 had a fix for "graphics corruption issues affecting certain apps on iMac Pro", but there may be remaining non-fixed aspects:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht208533

Beyond the technical issues, Apple has an organizational problem regarding support of professional customers. They do not stock Configure To Order iMacs and definitely not CTO iMac Pros. Thus a customer with a failure can face up to one month downtime while a replacement is built in China.

The Apple retail organization has a Business Team and Joint Venture team but these are helpless to assist in cases like this. They have no authority to expedite a replacement CTO iMac Pro, and no available stock of CTO iMac Pros.

This situation absolutely must be resolved or else all the effort Apple is spending on the upcoming modular Mac Pro will be wasted. Apple has a Pro Apps Workflow Team helping to shape the new Mac Pro so it meets the needs of professional customers: https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apples-2019-imac-pro-will-be-shaped-by-workflows/

Yet if professional customers are treated worse than a walk-in retail customer with a broken iPhone, the new Mac Pro will not be successful because (no matter how good the machine is) many businesses will not take that risk. The same is true with the iMac Pro which can cost up to $13k.

 

[jtrwallace]

However, they want the Pro returned before ordering a new iMac, which will basically mean my business will collapse so can not be done!

Have you been in contact with the Executive Relations team? They can make many exceptions to the rules that the typical Apple Support channels cannot. The way that I get to them is by emailing tcook@apple.com a very sincere, disappointed email detailing the issue and explaining how you are impacted by a problem Apple is responsible for. Then someone from Apple's Executive Relations team will likely reach out to you and handle your case from then on, speaking to the Apple Support people on your behalf. Good luck.

 

[anticipate]

The only performance problems I've seen with the two 10-core Vega 64 iMac Pros I've had is they are slower than a top-spec iMac 27 on certain H264 workflows: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...else-experiencing-this.2114157/#post-26148068

The iMP is faster on ProRes and RAW and on certain H264 workflows but it's definitely slower editing and exporting all 4k H264 variants I've tested in FCPX. As you said the iMP is not fast enough to allow smooth editing 4k H264 in FCPX without proxies, so it's no better than a 2017 iMac in that regard.

...

The iMac Pro is very quiet and the extra CPU cores and faster GPU helps certain cases. However FCPX needs significant performance improvement to better utilize the AMD UVD/VCE transcoding hardware on H264 codecs. Also the special procedures due to the T2 security chip and Secure Boot feature should be better documented.

I have thrown multiple streams of XAVC-S and XAVC-L at the iMP at "best quality" on FCPX with zero issues. The characterization that it needs proxies for smooth editing is just false.. unless you're talking about a 12" MacBook - which is where I need proxies. If you are working on the same kinds of footage I am, why do you need proxies?

Even an old 2013 Mac Pro didn't need proxies...

My experience does not match up with yours at all, except the 4K H.264 export times are faster on the 27" iMac. And both machines are far faster exporting H.264 4K than the old 2013 D700 8C Mac Pro.

 

[danielwsmithee]

My experience does not match up with yours at all, except the 4K H.264 export times are faster on the 27" iMac. And both machines are far faster exporting H.264 4K than the old 2013 D700 8C Mac Pro.

My understanding was that it was well known when the iMac Pro was announced that export times would be faster on the i7 based standard iMac than the iMac Pro due to the i7's implementation of Intel QuickSync that does not exist on the Xeons used in the iMac Pro. This was also shown to be true in many of the initial reviews of the iMac Pro.

 

[joema2]

I have thrown multiple streams of XAVC-S and XAVC-L at the iMP at "best quality" on FCPX with zero issues. The characterization that it needs proxies for smooth editing is just false....If you are working on the same kinds of footage I am, why do you need proxies?...Even an old 2013 Mac Pro didn't need proxies...

I had a 12-core D700 Mac Pro, I currently have a 2013, 2015 and 2017 top-spec iMac 27 and a 10-core Vega 64 iMac Pro. The only one remotely fast enough to smoothly edit a single stream of 4k XAVC-S in FCPX is the 2017 iMac, probably due to the Kaby Lake Quick Sync on the i7-7700K CPU.

The 12-core D700 Mac Pro was slower than any of the iMacs on 4k H264 because it had no hardware-based encode/decode acceleration.

I have a 10-core Vega 64 iMac Pro and top-spec 2017 iMac on my desk side by side and I use them both every day in large-scale documentary editing. There is no question the iMac Pro is generally slower on 4k H264 in timeline responsiveness. The viewer frame rate is slower and keyboard response to JKL commands is a little slower. However it's much faster than the 12-core nMP, but that was a very low bar.

If anyone thinks an iMac Pro can smoothly edit two or three-camera 4k H264 multicam without proxies in FCPX, I invite them to try it.

Even on single camera 4k H264, the 10-core iMac Pro requires proxies for fast, smooth editing. If you are just playing around on a little clip you might not need proxies. If you are doing serious work on a large project and must plow through lots of material, it's just too slow without them. Anybody who doubts this can check the viewer frame rate when scrubbing a 4k H264 timeline with and without proxies. They can also check the response lag from JKL commands with and without proxies.

Note these all assume background rendering is off and the auto creation of optimized media for multicam is off. Background rendering makes an "end run" around the slowness by trying to render timeline segments, but this is unpredictable and doesn't help for clips in the Event Browser.

Editing 4k H264 without proxies using FCPX on the iMP is at least faster Premiere -- now *that's* slow.
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My understanding was that it was well known when the iMac Pro was announced that export times would be faster on the i7 based standard iMac than the iMac Pro due to the i7's implementation of Intel QuickSync that does not exist on the Xeons used in the iMac Pro. This was also shown to be true in many of the initial reviews of the iMac Pro.

It's not all about export. Both Quick Sync and competing technologies such as AMD/s UVD/VCE can be used for either encode, decode or both.

On the iMac, FCPX uses Quick Sync for both encode and decode. That is why scrubbing the timeline is so fast relative to Premiere Pro 2018, which only uses Quick Sync for encoding output files, not for decoding input files.

Since the iMac Pro uses Xeon which does not have Quick Sync, Apple is apparently using AMD's UVD/VCE transcoding hardware. This is better than nothing -- it's a lot faster on 4k H264 than a top-spec 2013 Mac Pro. It is pretty fast on 1080p H264. However it's slower than a top-spec 2017 iMac on several H264 workflows, especially decoding and encoding 4k H264.

 

[anticipate]

I had a 12-core D700 Mac Pro, I currently have a 2013, 2015 and 2017 top-spec iMac 27 and a 10-core Vega 64 iMac Pro. The only one remotely fast enough to smoothly edit a single stream of 4k XAVC-S in FCPX is the 2017 iMac, probably due to the Kaby Lake Quick Sync on the i7-7700K CPU.

The 12-core D700 Mac Pro was slower than any of the iMacs on 4k H264 because it had no hardware-based encode/decode acceleration.

I have a 10-core Vega 64 iMac Pro and top-spec 2017 iMac on my desk side by side and I use them both every day in large-scale documentary editing. There is no question the iMac Pro is generally slower on 4k H264 in timeline responsiveness. The viewer frame rate is slower and keyboard response to JKL commands is a little slower. However it's much faster than the 12-core nMP, but that was a very low bar.

If anyone thinks an iMac Pro can smoothly edit two or three-camera 4k H264 multicam without proxies in FCPX, I invite them to try it.

Even on single camera 4k H264, the 10-core iMac Pro requires proxies for fast, smooth editing. If you are just playing around on a little clip you might not need proxies. If you are doing serious work on a large project and must plow through lots of material, it's just too slow without them. Anybody who doubts this can check the viewer frame rate when scrubbing a 4k H264 timeline with and without proxies. They can also check the response lag from JKL commands with and without proxies.

Note these all assume background rendering is off and the auto creation of optimized media for multicam is off. Background rendering makes an "end run" around the slowness by trying to render timeline segments, but this is unpredictable and doesn't help for clips in the Event Browser.

Editing 4k H264 without proxies using FCPX on the iMP is at least faster Premiere -- now *that's* slow.

Yeah Premiere is horrific. I used to edit on it and FCPX is so much smoother.

I do have background rendering, which helps a ton. The iMP is generally very fast at rendering which makes me happy

But I don't really have the issues you describe. However, I also may not be as fast as an editor as you -and therefore don't notice what you do. For example" I typically finish edit from another editor I hire to do the rough cut. I am editing start to finish on this next job, so we'll see.

I do have Multicam transcode.

 

[danielwsmithee]

It's not all about export. Both Quick Sync and competing technologies such as AMD/s UVD/VCE can be used for either encode, decode or both.

On the iMac, FCPX uses Quick Sync for both encode and decode. That is why scrubbing the timeline is so fast relative to Premiere Pro 2018, which only uses Quick Sync for encoding output files, not for decoding input files.

Since the iMac Pro uses Xeon which does not have Quick Sync, Apple is apparently using AMD's UVD/VCE transcoding hardware. This is better than nothing -- it's a lot faster on 4k H264 than a top-spec 2013 Mac Pro. It is pretty fast on 1080p H264. However it's slower than a top-spec 2017 iMac on several H264 workflows, especially decoding and encoding 4k H264.

Thanks for the clarification. This is one of the reasons I'm really hoping Apple will update the iMac. I'd really like to see an iMac with the cooling of the iMac Pro and an 8th generation 6-core i7 processor. Maybe not as much of a pure workhorse as the top spec iMac Pro but would have pretty great performance for the price.

 

[SRTM]

The graphical issue you experience in Diablo 3 is not a iMac specific issue.
I have the same glitch playing on my Macbook Pro 2016.

Its a known issue that Blizzard has yet to solve.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20753936806

 

[joema2]

...I have thrown multiple streams of XAVC-S and XAVC-L at the iMP at "best quality" on FCPX with zero issues...I do have background rendering, which helps a ton. The iMP is generally very fast at rendering which makes me happy...I typically finish edit from another editor I hire to do the rough cut....I do have Multicam transcode.

Since you are using background rendering and have "Create optimized media for multicam clips" enabled, this obscures any performance issues on the iMP. Even a 2013 iMac is fast on 4k H264 with those options enabled.

There are several problems with this:

(1) Background rendering chews up lots of drive space. FCPX will create new render files every time you make any changes to any clip that has already been rendered. The old render files don't get automatically deleted.

(2) Background renders are full-res ProRes 422 files, so it is essentially transcoding your entire timeline to ProRes. Thus this isn't an indication of how well the iMP can handle 4k H264.

(3) Background rendering is unavailable on clips in the Event Browser -- it only works on the timeline. On large projects the typical FCPX workflow is spending 70% of the time in the Event Browser organizing, keywording and rating material. You can't rapidly skim through 4k H264 with smooth lag-free performance -- even on an iMac Pro, and background rendering doesn't help this.

(4) "Create optimized media for multicam clips" transcodes all clips in the MC to ProRes 422. This is about 6x the space of the original 4k H264. It also side steps the issue of whether the iMP can handle 4k H264 multicam as well as an iMac. E.g, my documentary team may shoot 10 three-camera 4k H264 interviews per day. That's about 700 GB, which if transcoded to ProRes would be about 4.2 terabytes.

So while those features are useful in some cases, many professional editors don't use them. Using those features means any evaluation of iMac Pro performance is not accurate -- it would be like evaluating the ability of a MacBook Air to edit 4k H264 by first transcoding all the material to ProRes. Yes it would seem fast but it's not editing H264.

 

[anticipate]

Since you are using background rendering and have "Create optimized media for multicam clips" enabled, this obscures any performance issues on the iMP. Even a 2013 iMac is fast on 4k H264 with those options enabled.

There are several problems with this:

(1) Background rendering chews up lots of drive space. FCPX will create new render files every time you make any changes to any clip that has already been rendered. The old render files don't get automatically deleted.

(2) Background renders are full-res ProRes 422 files, so it is essentially transcoding your entire timeline to ProRes. Thus this isn't an indication of how well the iMP can handle 4k H264.

(3) Background rendering is unavailable on clips in the Event Browser -- it only works on the timeline. On large projects the typical FCPX workflow is spending 70% of the time in the Event Browser organizing, keywording and rating material. You can't rapidly skim through 4k H264 with smooth lag-free performance -- even on an iMac Pro, and background rendering doesn't help this.

(4) "Create optimized media for multicam clips" transcodes all clips in the MC to ProRes 422. This is about 6x the space of the original 4k H264. It also side steps the issue of whether the iMP can handle 4k H264 multicam as well as an iMac. E.g, my documentary team may shoot 10 three-camera 4k H264 interviews per day. That's about 700 GB, which if transcoded to ProRes would be about 4.2 terabytes.

So while those features are useful in some cases, many professional editors don't use them. Using those features means any evaluation of iMac Pro performance is not accurate -- it would be like evaluating the ability of a MacBook Air to edit 4k H264 by first transcoding all the material to ProRes. Yes it would seem fast but it's not editing H264.

I am fully aware of how background rendering works with FCPX, but thank you

All I can tell you is (prior to background rendering) my experience doesn't match yours, or many of the other editors with the same machine. It's fluid for me with 4K H.264 pre render. I have zero problems scrubbing on the timeline. I literally don't see the issues you mention, nor do any of my editors with similar configurations.

Hard drive space also isn't an issue for us - we have plenty.

I don't know why your experience doesn't match ours, nor do I care to speculate. I am just saying that your experience on that machine may not be indicative of the experience of others as a whole.

 

[dspdoc]

The glitches you are seeing in Diablo III vaguely remind me of the incessant, maddening glitches that I am experiencing with my MULTIPLE iMac Pros.

First, I got my 8-core iMac Pro the second week in January. I migrated from my 2014 5K iMac and have experienced glitches since day one. They seem to happen after the computer has been booted for at least a couple hours. I've always used my Macs aggressively with at least 20 apps open and around 30gb of ram active. My two previous iMacs handled this fairly flawlessly.

So I contacted Apple Support online chat, they had me go through the basics of resetting NVRAM, SMC, safe mode, everything you can think of to start off with. Nothing helped. Then I contacted Apple Support phone and they did the same things, then had me reinstall the OS, and then told me that it sounded like a hardware error and to make a Genius Bar appointment. So I did, they couldn't replicate the problem, and concluded that my computer was fine after erasing it and "resetting the iOS portion" of the iMac Pro.

Suffice it to say, I still experienced the problem. Mind you, this problem is screenshottable. So it should be software related, right? But it looks like GPU artifacts like your Diablo III screenshots. So I gave up for a while and just dealt with it, quitting the apps experiencing the problem and opening them again.

When I got frustrated enough in March after trying basically everything Apple had told me, I emailed Tim Cook expressing my disappointment at having spent $7,000 and going through the proper support channels and getting nowhere. I was contacted by the executive liaison's office saying they were dedicated to figuring this out for me. I did data captures, tons of screenshots, worked with the engineers and they concluded it was hardware again.

This time I took it to the Apple Store, waited a week, they replaced the logic board but when putting it back in the computer they screwed up the ethernet port and had to send me a brand new iMac Pro from China which took almost another week. I thought, awesome, I have a brand new iMac Pro, surely this will fix the problem. I migrated from my Time Machine backup and the computer was fine... for 6 hours. The problem came back.

At this point, I have brand new hardware, it has to be software, right? So I contacted the liaison again and did more data captures and more screenshots and they concluded that I needed to get the logic board replaced... how? How could it be possible that I got two defective iMac Pros in a row? I just couldn't believe it. I told them to seriously reconsider this because I didn't believe any Apple engineer who genuinely knew the whole story would think I needed more new hardware. So they did reconsider and suggested I erase everything and start over from scratch with no migration.

I painstakingly reinstalled everything with screenshots of my app settings saved in my Dropbox. And... the problem is back. At this point, I am totally lost. My files and my apps worked on my iMac 5K but they don't work on not one but two different iMac Pros. Sorry for hijacking your post but I had to get this off my chest in the hopes that someone will have any clue as to what I should do next. Here's the apps I run regularly:

Safari
Preview
Slack (used heavily)
Tweetbot
1Password
Fantastical (experiences glitches)
Mail (experiences minor glitches in to, cc, bcc, subject fields / used heavily)
Chrome (experiences minor glitches in app chrome / used heavily)
Notes (experiences heavy glitches in note body panes / used heavily)
Reeder (experiences minor glitches in article list / used heavily)
Messages (experiences heavy glitches in conversation panes / used heavily)
Skype
Plex Media Server
Transmission
Keybase
iFlicks 2
WhatsApp
Reminders
Sip
Cardhop
Dropbox
Backblaze
iStat Menus
Bumpr
Creative Cloud
Illustrator (never experiences glitches / used heavily)
Photoshop (never experiences glitches)
Mailbutler
Paste

The apps that experience glitches are all cocoa apps using native appkit frameworks and are mostly apple-developed applications. Of note is that Adobe apps do not experience this issue and are some of my most used and intensive applications.

Additionally, this almost always occurs in a non-active window behind another window. If there are shadows or transparencies, the glitch is more likely to happen and or be located only within the shadow of another app. I tried turning off reduce transparency and high contrast mode and both have no effect on the problem.

Does anyone have any clue as to what this is? I'm literally at the point of needing to sell this computer and go back to a 5K iMac.

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I sincerely hope that anyone having issue like these are reporting it to Apple engineering and escalating it as high up the chain as they can go. This is totally unacceptable. I get these same sort of GUI issues in Logic Pro X, which is pathetic seeing as it is an Apple app.

 

[dspdoc]

Update on my iMac Pro base model with Pro Vega 64 graphics card:

Graphical glitches in random apps DO occur on this new machine, albeit with vastly lower frequency and with much less disruption to my work. I will now only see the glitch on the very edges of app windows and only once or twice a day instead of 40 times per day. I do, however, still experience some strange kernel panics. I have also come to my computer to find that it appears to be off (I never let my iMac Pro sleep, and have never let any desktop Mac sleep) and a normal click of the power button does not turn it on, nor does holding the power button for a while. I seem to have to do some voodoo clicking, holding, clicking fast, I'm not sure until I finally see the Apple Logo. During that time my external drives do not think the computer is on either.

There's got to be something seriously wrong with these computers and/or macOS. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they fix whatever bugs metal introduced in High Sierra.

Please tell me you are helping our case by taking these issues to engineering?

 

[DTVID]

Have you been in contact with the Executive Relations team? They can make many exceptions to the rules that the typical Apple Support channels cannot. The way that I get to them is by emailing tcook@apple.com a very sincere, disappointed email detailing the issue and explaining how you are impacted by a problem Apple is responsible for. Then someone from Apple's Executive Relations team will likely reach out to you and handle your case from then on, speaking to the Apple Support people on your behalf. Good luck.

Thanks for that, I have sent an email.
[doublepost=1530713668][/doublepost]OK, I have now got the the stage where the Pro is going back and a new 5K iMac has been ordered. The service from Apple has been shocking. As soon as they got to the stage where they could not find a fix, and it is painfully obvious that there is a problem with the IMP, they simply stopped communicating with me, which is rude and totally unprofessional. I would love to bill them for the time I have taken trying to sort out their problems. I have now also been forced to fork out another £3000+ on the new 5K iMac, as they will not supply a new one until the Pro is returned to them, despite it being shown that there are clear faults with it, and also with them being aware that I have lost, and am still losing business due to the faults. I have now contacted Trading Standards, as I am convinced this Pro should not have been released prior to proper testing on their own software, and the fact they are still selling it after some many issues now being knows, is an absolute joke, and they must be misleading customers if they are selling on the basis that it is better then the cheaper 5K model.
Its a shame that my opinion of Apple has gone from the best, to the lowest, in one fowl swoop!!

 

[dspdoc]

Thanks for that, I have sent an email.
[doublepost=1530713668][/doublepost]OK, I have now got the the stage where the Pro is going back and a new 5K iMac has been ordered. The service from Apple has been shocking. As soon as they got to the stage where they could not find a fix, and it is painfully obvious that there is a problem with the IMP, they simply stopped communicating with me, which is rude and totally unprofessional. I would love to bill them for the time I have taken trying to sort out their problems. I have now also been forced to fork out another £3000+ on the new 5K iMac, as they will not supply a new one until the Pro is returned to them, despite it being shown that there are clear faults with it, and also with them being aware that I have lost, and am still losing business due to the faults. I have now contacted Trading Standards, as I am convinced this Pro should not have been released prior to proper testing on their own software, and the fact they are still selling it after some many issues now being knows, is an absolute joke, and they must be misleading customers if they are selling on the basis that it is better then the cheaper 5K model.
Its a shame that my opinion of Apple has gone from the best, to the lowest, in one fowl swoop!!

I am strongly considering “downgrading” to the regular 5K model as well. But to be honest I really don’t want to give up the power of the iMP. Not to mention going with a 7th Gen i7 would NOT thrill me at all. Apple has to release updated machines this fall or people are going to lose their minds. One major thing that appeals to me the most about the iMP too is the updated thermal design and better cooling. That was a major selling point for me. I’m waiting to see what my options are. I’m sorry for everyone experiencing these issues. It’s quite upsetting not even knowing if we are dealing with defective hardware or whether this can all be cleared up with an update. Either way we all need something done immediately. One thing that is a bit curious to me is I notice there is almost 5000 views of this thread yet not much engagement. Makes a person wonder how isolated this is and if we indeed have bad hardware...? Cheers everyone.