iMac Pro Graphical glitches on new iMac Pro - driver issue or worse? Anyone else experiencing this?

[DTVID]

I have thrown multiple streams of XAVC-S and XAVC-L at the iMP at "best quality" on FCPX with zero issues. The characterization that it needs proxies for smooth editing is just false.. unless you're talking about a 12" MacBook - which is where I need proxies. If you are working on the same kinds of footage I am, why do you need proxies?

Even an old 2013 Mac Pro didn't need proxies...

My experience does not match up with yours at all, except the 4K H.264 export times are faster on the 27" iMac. And both machines are far faster exporting H.264 4K than the old 2013 D700 8C Mac Pro.

I am working with 4 camera feeds, all Sony shot 50p in AVCHD, and a couple of go pros in 25p4k. I also have a couple of audio feeds. I film weddings so end up with around 20hrs of footage, but most of the work requiring proxies involved Multicam scenes where there are around 5 camera feeds and two audio for the entire duration of the scene, which can be anything from 20 minutes to an hour. There is no way that this part of the process will handle editing without proxy, but I have seen, is that even with proxies made, I get dropped frames when editing. My older 5k iMac handles the same project without dropping frames. This is not just a one off, even the second Pro I was sent has the same issues.

Apple have now well and truly slammed the door shut now that it is absolutely crystal clear that there are issues with the IMP working with FCPX, and they just stick their heads in the sand. They have no complaints procedure and you can not even get past the local store manager as far as management is concerned. I have now lodged a case with Trading Standards, and would urge anyone having issues with this machine to do the same, as it should not be sold when there are problems with it working with Apples own software.

 

[dspdoc]

Everyone might want to check if 10.13.6 fixes any of this. There was a firmware update.

 

[DTVID]

I have now received confirmation from the technical side of Apple confirming that still can not solve the issues with the IMP. They even had the nerve to ask me to carry out more tests on it after the huge amount of work I have done for them with no regard on how the issues have affected my business. My new 5k iMac arrives today and I can't wait to get this IMP off of my desk and start to get back on track with my work again. Apple have not only released a computer that is not fit for purpose, but their customer support is a disgrace when the have caused the issue. I urge anyone who has problems not to waste any more time carrying out reports and updates, they do not work, and I have it from the horses mouth that they can not fix it at this time!

 

[dspdoc]

I have now received confirmation from the technical side of Apple confirming that still can not solve the issues with the IMP. They even had the nerve to ask me to carry out more tests on it after the huge amount of work I have done for them with no regard on how the issues have affected my business. My new 5k iMac arrives today and I can't wait to get this IMP off of my desk and start to get back on track with my work again. Apple have not only released a computer that is not fit for purpose, but their customer support is a disgrace when the have caused the issue. I urge anyone who has problems not to waste any more time carrying out reports and updates, they do not work, and I have it from the horses mouth that they can not fix it at this time!

What do you mean ‘you have it from the horses mouth’? They specifically told you that they can’t fix this issue? And if they indeed said that, did they say why? And so you did the update to 10.13.6 and tested this for yourself and the issue is still there? I highly doubt they are going to let this issue, if indeed software related, linger until 10.14 or as you kind or put it, indefinitely. They are aware of the issue. They have to fix it.

 

[joema2]

I have now received confirmation from the technical side of Apple confirming that still can not solve the issues with the IMP...

Could you please re-state a concise description of your symptoms so we may know if we are encountering the same problem?

Thus far you've described "random frames appearing on the timeline", "glitching which appears in the final production", and "regular frame dropping even when working in Proxy".

Your codec is AVCHD at 1080p/50 and GoPro H264 at UHD 4k/25p. Is that right?

Have you seen any of these problems solely on AVCHD or just on the GoPro 4k, or only when both are used on the same timeline? Can you be more specific about the "glitching"? Is it color fluctuations, or pixelated noise in a frame, or periodic wrong frames?

Was your AVCHD properly imported, which means from the AVCHD bundle or did you copy the .MTS files out of the bundle and import with "leave files in place"? On any Mac (not just the iMP) running FCPX, importing the bare .MTS files using "leave files in place" may cause significant performance problems, possibly including dropped frames on playback. However I've never seen it cause graphical glitching or wrong frames which persist in the rendered output file.

To properly import AVCHD it must be imported from the bundle which FCPX will internally re-wrap and copy to the library. The only other valid alternative is externally re-wrap the AVCHD with EditReady, then import.

 

[dspdoc]

And the hits just keep on coming from Apple! Bug STILL exists in 10.13.6 on my 2nd iMP. SMH

 

[pat500000]

And the hits just keep on coming from Apple! Bug STILL exists in 10.13.6 on my 2nd iMP. SMH View attachment 776321

Sounds like a feature from apple. Get mac pro or something.

 

[dspdoc]

Sounds like a feature from apple. Get mac pro or something.

Seriously?

 

[richinaus]

Seriously?

What u have is exactly what I used to have on mine. Which video card do you have as when I got the Vega 64 there were no more glitches.

 

[dspdoc]

What u have is exactly what I used to have on mine. Which video card do you have as when I got the Vega 64 there were no more glitches.

Vega 64 card...

 

[richinaus]

Vega 64 card...

Tbh I would be going mad at them in the store if it persisted for me. It is definitely an issue with these computers.

 

[Trebuin]

My understanding was that it was well known when the iMac Pro was announced that export times would be faster on the i7 based standard iMac than the iMac Pro due to the i7's implementation of Intel QuickSync that does not exist on the Xeons used in the iMac Pro. This was also shown to be true in many of the initial reviews of the iMac Pro.

I concur. I'm moving over to 265 now & don't care very much. I also learned that quicksync is actually a very specific encoding profile that may or may not meet a user's standards. My standards involve very high quality output & quicksync didn't meet my standards.

 

[joema2]

I concur. I'm moving over to 265 now & don't care very much. I also learned that quicksync is actually a very specific encoding profile that may or may not meet a user's standards. My standards involve very high quality output & quicksync didn't meet my standards.

Quick Sync if used properly produces excellent quality output. I have put Quick Sync vs software rendered 4k 4:2:0 8-bit H.264 videos under a magnifying glass many times and I generally cannot tell the difference -- at least as implemented by FCPX.

It was never announced or widely understood the iMac Pro would be slower on H.264 than the i7 iMac. The 2013 Mac Pro is *much* slower on H.264 than a 2017 i7 iMac due to Xeon, but the 2017 iMac Pro is not.

On the iMP both Apple and Adobe are apparently using AMD's similar hardware encoding logic, called VCE (Video Coding Engine). It is very fast, and for H.264 1080p encoded by FCPX, the iMP is faster than the top 2017 iMac. For UHD 4k it's a little slower. Premiere CC 2018 is roughly similar in H.264 VBR 1-pass *encoding* performance, a huge improvement from past versions when it was 4x slower than FCPX.

On the decoding side FCPX uses AMD's UVD (Universal Video Decoder); Adobe doesn't use either Quick Sync or UVD for decoding, which is why 4k H.264 timeline operations are so slow. It's harder to measure decoding performance but in general the iMac Pro running FCPX is OK decoding 4k H264 -- much faster than the 2013 Mac Pro -- but it's not as fast as the 2017 i7 iMac.

This is Apple's first use of the AMD video hardware, so it's conceivable it could be improved in future versions of macOS and FCPX

FCPX on the iMP is super-slow encoding 10-bit H.265, but for 8-bit H.265 it does OK.

 

[Trebuin]

Quick Sync if used properly produces excellent quality output. I have put Quick Sync vs software rendered 4k 4:2:0 8-bit H.264 videos under a magnifying glass many times and I generally cannot tell the difference -- at least as implemented by FCPX.

It was never announced or widely understood the iMac Pro would be slower on H.264 than the i7 iMac. The 2013 Mac Pro is *much* slower on H.264 than a 2017 i7 iMac due to Xeon, but the 2017 iMac Pro is not.

On the iMP both Apple and Adobe are apparently using AMD's similar hardware encoding logic, called VCE (Video Coding Engine). It is very fast, and for H.264 1080p encoded by FCPX, the iMP is faster than the top 2017 iMac. For UHD 4k it's a little slower. Premiere CC 2018 is roughly similar in H.264 VBR 1-pass *encoding* performance, a huge improvement from past versions when it was 4x slower than FCPX.

On the decoding side FCPX uses AMD's UVD (Universal Video Decoder); Adobe doesn't use either Quick Sync or UVD for decoding, which is why 4k H.264 timeline operations are so slow. It's harder to measure decoding performance but in general the iMac Pro running FCPX is OK decoding 4k H264 -- much faster than the 2013 Mac Pro -- but it's not as fast as the 2017 i7 iMac.

This is Apple's first use of the AMD video hardware, so it's conceivable it could be improved in future versions of macOS and FCPX

FCPX on the iMP is super-slow encoding 10-bit H.265, but for 8-bit H.265 it does OK.

I can understand why 10-bit is so much slower than 8-bit...it's creating a new palette defining millions of extra colors for even just a couple minutes of frames. I do like 10-bit quality much more for dark scenes...finally a solution for resolving blocking.

 

[pat500000]

Seriously?

You should know apple are having problems with imac pro graphic issues. Even if they replace it, you are more likely to get an error. If anything, might as well get an cMP and put your own gpu.

 

[joema2]

And the hits just keep on coming from Apple! Bug STILL exists in 10.13.6 on my 2nd iMP. ...

There have been previously-reported cases of Pro Tools causing graphical UI artifacts on various Macs: http://resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/PT/Pro_Tools_2018.1_Read_Me-Mac.pdf

In fact if you search the above document for "artifacts", it happens under various conditions and Avid classifies them as "known issues". It's possible they are more common on some hardware platforms than others.

However -- you also saw this on Apple's own Logic Pro X, so that seems to rule out Pro Tools.

If it is reproducible on those two different apps from different vendors, that implies it's a lower-level problem at the OS, driver or hardware level. There's also the question of whether it's unique to the two iMPs you've had, or unique to a specific config such as Vega 64, or would it happen on a base iMac Pro at the Apple Store.

Apple stores have base iMac Pros but they (nor Joint Venture nor Business Teams) have access to Configure To Order iMac Pros. So unfortunately you can't go there with a portable drive and run a test on a non-stock machine.

I don't know where you purchased your machine (and I know this is beside the point), but cases like this are a good reason to purchase it only from Apple or a retailer which permits returns without restocking fees. You could encounter a serious but elusive problem that requires exchanging the machine to resolve it and several popular retailers such as B&H do not allow exchanges or returns.

 

[Trebuin]

I'll follow this, but I haven't seen any issues with any of the software I use. Granted, I don't use some of these tools, but mostly handbrake. I also have the fan running higher than normal keeping the CPU cooler than normal.

 

[richinaus]

There have been previously-reported cases of Pro Tools causing graphical UI artifacts on various Macs: http://resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/PT/Pro_Tools_2018.1_Read_Me-Mac.pdf

In fact if you search the above document for "artifacts", it happens under various conditions and Avid classifies them as "known issues". It's possible they are more common on some hardware platforms than others.

However -- you also saw this on Apple's own Logic Pro X, so that seems to rule out Pro Tools.

If it is reproducible on those two different apps from different vendors, that implies it's a lower-level problem at the OS, driver or hardware level. There's also the question of whether it's unique to the two iMPs you've had, or unique to a specific config such as Vega 64, or would it happen on a base iMac Pro at the Apple Store.

Apple stores have base iMac Pros but they (nor Joint Venture nor Business Teams) have access to Configure To Order iMac Pros. So unfortunately you can't go there with a portable drive and run a test on a non-stock machine.

I don't know where you purchased your machine (and I know this is beside the point), but cases like this are a good reason to purchase it only from Apple or a retailer which permits returns without restocking fees. You could encounter a serious but elusive problem that requires exchanging the machine to resolve it and several popular retailers such as B&H do not allow exchanges or returns.

Sorry, but I mentioned this before. This has nothing to do with Protools or Logic Pro. I was getting identical graphic glitches on my first iMac pro accross several apps [todoist and Evernote I recall]. It was the base model straight out the store where I had the issues.

For me, we can conclude, it is not graphic card related [56 / 64] nor is app specific.

 

[joema2]

Sorry, but I mentioned this before. This has nothing to do with Protools or Logic Pro. I was getting identical graphic glitches on my first iMac pro accross several apps [todoist and Evernote I recall]. It was the base model straight out the store where I had the issues.

For me, we can conclude, it is not graphic card related [56 / 64] nor is app specific.

I'm not saying it's always Pro Tools or Logic Pro, only users must be aware of app-specific graphical issues.

People in this thread have reported "it" only happens on Apple apps, others report it only happens on non-Apple apps. Others report only "frame glitching" within FCPX. What "it" is varies -- the descriptions are diverse.

Some people have had reduction of symptoms after replacing hardware, others saw no improvement. You yourself reported "when I got the Vega 64 there were no more glitches."

The thread has become a grab bag of symptoms which are often vaguely defined. It's similar to a software bug being filed which only says "slow performance". Everyone sees that vaguely defined symptom and thinks "that's my problem".

Regarding the few people who posted screen caps or videos, those do look low-level in nature -- hardware or driver-level software.

As I previously posted, there have obviously been some low-level graphical issues with the iMP because the macOS 10.13.4 specifically mentions "graphics corruption issues affecting certain apps on iMac Pro": https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208533

If those could exist and were fixed, it's quite possible other similar ones could exist -- which affect only certain apps -- which are not yet fixed.

The best approach is try to narrow down the problem, report it to Apple, and help fellow users by reporting specific details.