Growing trend of Macs in the enterprise?

[DeepIn2U]

There were less than 50 Mac systems at my previous employer of 150k people. My new employer with 5k people has no Mac systems. I'm not sure why the article mentions the Cisco community supporting Macs. There are many items that Cisco doesn't support on the Mac very well, VoIP for one. It took them years to get the softphone ported. I don't think their NAC software works on a Mac either.

There are just too many enterprise items that don't work on a Mac.

VOIP?
Cisco Jabber works on iOS and also now offered on OSX: a free download but you need to be registered with Cisco
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/voicesw/ps6789/ps6836/ps11764/data_sheet_c78-688461.html
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/voice_ip_comm/cupc/8_6/b_jabber_RN_mac.html

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The only reason "Apple in the Enterprise" gets any attention is because it's something different from the Wintel monopoly. Apple's support options and lifecycle replacement "plans" are laughable compared to those offered by the large Windows box manufacturers, and it's not going to change any time soon. For workstations and laptops Apple is never going to make any inroads. Mobile is a different story.

Oh really?

IBM globally supports both Windows/Mac/Linux via VM installations. Its beginning and with a big corp like IBM its a big change.

Our company runs Exchange 03' (I know, just upgrade), and to run it in IMAP against exchange is a tough pill to continue to swallow; I do use the DavMail gateway work around, but it is not the same experience.

I'm confused here.
Solution: Mail supports Exchange 2007/2010 fully. Office 2011 for Mac works incredibly well (even if it drops endless files in the /library in OSX).

 

[smoledman]

I can see this has turned into a trolling thread.

 

[belvdr]

VOIP?
Cisco Jabber works on iOS and also now offered on OSX: a free download but you need to be registered with Cisco
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/voicesw/ps6789/ps6836/ps11764/data_sheet_c78-688461.html
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/voice_ip_comm/cupc/8_6/b_jabber_RN_mac.html

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Oh really?

IBM globally supports both Windows/Mac/Linux via VM installations. Its beginning and with a big corp like IBM its a big change.




I'm confused here.
Solution: Mail supports Exchange 2007/2010 fully. Office 2011 for Mac works incredibly well (even if it drops endless files in the /library in OSX).

Slow down and read carefully.

I didn't say not at all; I said "very well" meaning it took Cisco a long long time to get a Cisco softphone available on OS X. I have doubts they'll keep it up to date regularly either. That's why I have a hard time believing a Mac will take hold in an enterprise environment.

Are you saying IBM supports a VM running OS X? If so, who cares as it violates Apple's EULA. I doubt many corporations are willing to violate a EULA just to bring in a software package.

As for Exchange, the poster even stated he knew an upgrade was needed.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Slow down and read carefully.

I didn't say not at all; I said "very well" meaning it took Cisco a long long time to get a Cisco softphone available on OS X. I have doubts they'll keep it up to date regularly either. That's why I have a hard time believing a Mac will take hold in an enterprise environment.

Are you saying IBM supports a VM running OS X? If so, who cares as it violates Apple's EULA. I doubt many corporations are willing to violate a EULA just to bring in a software package.

As for Exchange, the poster even stated he knew an upgrade was needed.

Yeah ... skim reading is a bad habit for me, sorry about that.

I meant that IBM will support OSX with installations of Windows XP/7 on it va a VM implementation (their own most likely and its supported via licensing with BigM). its a step in the right direction but it still is limited OS X support. Their slowly getting there though.

Although Lotus Notes is FULLY supported on OS X and has been since version 7.x or 8.0 so there is some corporate support for OSX in the real world.

 

[miles01110]

...so there is some corporate support for OSX in the real world.

Nobody is disputing this. But that's like saying there's some support for the flat earth theory in academia. Insignificantly tiny, but extant. The reality is that OS X is an exceedingly poor choice for the enterprise markets, and the invisible hand is showing almost no signs of favoring Apple for widespread adoption in the future.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Nobody is disputing this. But that's like saying there's some support for the flat earth theory in academia. Insignificantly tiny, but extant. The reality is that OS X is an exceedingly poor choice for the enterprise markets, and the invisible hand is showing almost no signs of favoring Apple for widespread adoption in the future.

Please define why OSX is an exceedingly poor choice in enterprise markets?

- Office 2011 with file compatibility support (thorough: even scripts/macros will work with the full installation of this app; not to mention PST support)
- Sharpoint 2010 loads just as effectively with all features working in Safari (since Chrome works well); this all depends if proprietary code is still used in deploying internal web-based apps.
- RDP is native to Office 2011/or a separate download so no worries working with a server to administer AD/EMC2007/2010 (I'm very close to doing this full on a work in the next 2 weeks).
- File Sharing: again works seamlessly to end users
- maybe its the folder encryption lock down that annoys administrators?
- OSX can be joined to AD.
- Right now since where I work has not (and probably will not) implement OSX support on the Cisco ASA for AnyConnect - but I can use the portal for this except for RDP since something with Java is limiting me that I haven't figured out yet (and no I don't have the recent Java security hole - I've checked in Terminal).

 

[belvdr]

Please define why OSX is an exceedingly poor choice in enterprise markets?

- Office 2011 with file compatibility support (thorough: even scripts/macros will work with the full installation of this app; not to mention PST support)
- Sharpoint 2010 loads just as effectively with all features working in Safari (since Chrome works well); this all depends if proprietary code is still used in deploying internal web-based apps.
- RDP is native to Office 2011/or a separate download so no worries working with a server to administer AD/EMC2007/2010 (I'm very close to doing this full on a work in the next 2 weeks).
- File Sharing: again works seamlessly to end users
- maybe its the folder encryption lock down that annoys administrators?
- OSX can be joined to AD.
- Right now since where I work has not (and probably will not) implement OSX support on the Cisco ASA for AnyConnect - but I can use the portal for this except for RDP since something with Java is limiting me that I haven't figured out yet (and no I don't have the recent Java security hole - I've checked in Terminal).

The things you mention would likely work fine for any SMB. But SMBs differ greatly from an enterprise architecture.

Single sign-on has been an issue for non-Windows platforms. Another issue is the java based applications that run the ERP system. It doesn't work on OS X. Also, note my comment above on various Cisco offerings for OS X. They are always way behind their Windows counterparts, such as NAC or VoIP. And you even mentioned yourself VPN issues.

On top of all that, I don't know of a good way to manage OS X workstations when they become a high number, such as the OS X firewall.

 

[smoledman]

Enterprises will not buy their employees $1200 iMacs instead of $500 generic PCs to do Office work.

 

[belvdr]

Enterprises will not buy their employees $1200 iMacs instead of $500 generic PCs to do Office work.

I doubt that's it. Any organization (from 35 employees to much more than that) I have worked at has spent about $1000 per PC.

 

[DeepIn2U]

The things you mention would likely work fine for any SMB. But SMBs differ greatly from an enterprise architecture.

Single sign-on has been an issue for non-Windows platforms. Another issue is the java based applications that run the ERP system. It doesn't work on OS X. Also, note my comment above on various Cisco offerings for OS X. They are always way behind their Windows counterparts, such as NAC or VoIP. And you even mentioned yourself VPN issues.

On top of all that, I don't know of a good way to manage OS X workstations when they become a high number, such as the OS X firewall.

Cisco AnyConnect Portal issue resolved (just moments after I posted above; I'm embarrassed about the newb mistake on my part).

To answer about ERP systems: there is always Citrix Receiver/Neighborhood no? Hummingbird?
- I'm sure a team of talented, dedicated programmers could work full-time to fix any holes; but the question is the demand??
Also management of workstations can be done on OX Server or family workstation management cloud services ... just need to check with Gartner for highly recommended and researched solutions.

 

[belvdr]

Cisco AnyConnect Portal issue resolved (just moments after I posted above; I'm embarrassed about the newb mistake on my part).

To answer about ERP systems: there is always Citrix Receiver/Neighborhood no? Hummingbird?
- I'm sure a team of talented, dedicated programmers could work full-time to fix any holes; but the question is the demand??
Also management of workstations can be done on OX Server or family workstation management cloud services ... just need to check with Gartner for highly recommended and researched solutions.

If you're going to go that route (Citrix), you might as well go VDI for the entire organization and save even more.

So, in order to save money and bring in OS X, I now need a team of developers or an increased team of Citrix administrators to manage the farm? It doesn't sound very effective (not that I ran any numbers).

How can OS X Server manage the firewall of a client machine or manage the internal certificates of trusted web servers?

 

[roadbloc]

Please define why OSX is an exceedingly poor choice in enterprise markets?

Macs can cost up to 2x more than a PC. Then you have to purchase OS X versions of all your Windows software. And there isn't much advantage over using OS X either, maybe just the irradiation of a few minor stupid bugs that Microsoft let slip in (not that Apple don't do that either.)

Unless you're setting up afresh and you have a large budget, Macs are not really the best choice.

 

[chrono1081]

Macs can cost up to 2x more than a PC. Then you have to purchase OS X versions of all your Windows software. And there isn't much advantage over using OS X either, maybe just the irradiation of a few minor stupid bugs that Microsoft let slip in (not that Apple don't do that either.)

Unless you're setting up afresh and you have a large budget, Macs are not really the best choice.

Macs replace IT people which usually make them instantly cheaper in the long run. You guys are thinking of just hardware. We lost 10 people when our media department got their wish and received Macs. There was no longer a need for as many IT people because the problems just weren't manifesting the same way.

A few minor bugs is not it. Windows has LOTS of problems I assure you. The biggest one being issues with Outlook and Excel (outlook corrupting PST files because people closed it with the "x" instead of using File->Close and Excel disabling for no reason Adobe PDF are two of the most common).

I know its very very trendy to hate Macs, especially on Mac Rumors but you guys fail to realize they are a heck of a lot more stable than a Windows machine. I've been supporting them for over 10 years I know Windows inside and out.

 

[roadbloc]

Macs replace IT people

Utter rubbish. Are you sure you work in IT?

 

[miles01110]

Utter rubbish. Are you sure you work in IT?

it's pretty clear from chrono's posting history he doesn't really know what he's talking about when it comes to enterprise IT discussions.

 

[belvdr]

Macs replace IT people which usually make them instantly cheaper in the long run. You guys are thinking of just hardware. We lost 10 people when our media department got their wish and received Macs. There was no longer a need for as many IT people because the problems just weren't manifesting the same way.

Then you must be deploying machines (both OS X and Windows) and not doing anything to manage them (i.e. reacting to issues rather than being proactive). Otherwise, you wouldn't lose 10 people when one department switches to OS X.

If you were actually in IT, it should also be obvious that there is much more to it than just help desk support. How can a desktop Mac replace a network admin, database administrator, SAN administrator, Unix administrator, or a developer? The answer: it can't.

A few minor bugs is not it. Windows has LOTS of problems I assure you. The biggest one being issues with Outlook and Excel (outlook corrupting PST files because people closed it with the "x" instead of using File->Close and Excel disabling for no reason Adobe PDF are two of the most common).

I've closed Outlook with the "X" for over a decade and had no issues. Why? Because closing it that way doesn't cause a problem.

People who keep hitting the close button when Outlook is busy and then get the prompt to end the process, which they probably do, can cause corruption. Even that can happen on any operating system.

I know its very very trendy to hate Macs, especially on Mac Rumors but you guys fail to realize they are a heck of a lot more stable than a Windows machine. I've been supporting them for over 10 years I know Windows inside and out.

It has nothing to do with being trendy. In fact, I can't believe someone would say I'm trendy. I don't hate Macs either; I have two at home. They are not enterprise ready plain and simple.

 

[tigres]

Here's a simple test.

Put an osx box on a network running exchange 03' and connect natively.
Yes, there are a lot of companies still running exchange 03

By the way; the answer is- you cannot; with any osx mail program beyond 10.6 or third party mail program.

So how does an enterprise overcome hurdle #1, mail.

 

[chrono1081]

Utter rubbish. Are you sure you work in IT?

Positive. If it wasn't so ID theft friendly I'd gladly send you my resume.

Then you must be deploying machines (both OS X and Windows) and not doing anything to manage them (i.e. reacting to issues rather than being proactive). Otherwise, you wouldn't lose 10 people when one department switches to OS X.

If you were actually in IT, it should also be obvious that there is much more to it than just help desk support. How can a desktop Mac replace a network admin, database administrator, SAN administrator, Unix administrator, or a developer? The answer: it can't.

Please go reread my posts, I never once said it replaced systems admins or developers. It replaced the techs in the production pipeline who used to support the Win machines.

I've closed Outlook with the "X" for over a decade and had no issues. Why? Because closing it that way doesn't cause a problem.

People who keep hitting the close button when Outlook is busy and then get the prompt to end the process, which they probably do, can cause corruption. Even that can happen on any operating system.



It has nothing to do with being trendy. In fact, I can't believe someone would say I'm trendy. I don't hate Macs either; I have two at home. They are not enterprise ready plain and simple.

Call your contact at Microsoft (if you work in IT you should have one) and ask about Outlook 2003 and closing it with the X for users with large PST files. Please do.

I'm not saying it happens all the time, it doesn't, but its frequent enough that we've emailed our users explaining how to close it properly because we didn't have the time to be constantly scanning PST files, not to mention after they used File->Close, no more problems!

Honestly you guys are doing anything and everything to try and tell me I'm wrong about seeing Macs pop up in the work place even though just earlier today there were 300 of them sitting in the offices right across from me, and thats only a fraction of our total amount of Macs.

Thats fine if thinking Macs aren't creeping in to your workplace is what helps everyone sleep at night but for someone who makes a living on working with Windows servers and desktops its a genuine concern to me and I'm going to be proactive about it and learn all I can about Mac OS in order to keep ahead of the game.

Do I think Macs will ever replace Windows in the workplace? No. Do I think we'll see some more adoption when Windows 8 hits? You bet! Does it depend what type of environment you are in? Absolutely! Office workers aren't going to see Macs, but media houses will and currently do. (7 out of the last 9 places I applied didn't even ask for Windows experience, they wanted Linux and Mac OS, Windows experience was just a plus. Again, these are media production places not a typical office).

 

[roadbloc]

Positive. If it wasn't so ID theft friendly I'd gladly send you my resume.

No need. I don't think anyone here believes you. I have questioned your apparent knowledge and position in the IT industry before, but after this thread I have no doubt that you have no idea what you are on about.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, obviously.

 

[chrono1081]

No need. I don't think anyone here believes you. I have questioned your apparent knowledge and position in the IT industry before, but after this thread I have no doubt that you have no idea what you are on about.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, obviously.

I don't care if anyone believes me or not, especially you. You do nothing but criticize others in your posts so why does it matter to me what you think?

After your above post I certainly know you don't work in IT if you think Outlook doesn't cause issues.

 

[roadbloc]

After your above post I certainly know you don't work in IT if you think Outlook doesn't cause issues.

That is because I don't work in IT. I'm a writer. I do however know various people who do work in IT.

I certainly know you don't work in IT because you think that Macs make IT people redundant. From your many posts I was under the impression that you worked in a corporate IT environment, not a media setting.

You state that Macs are increasing in the media environment. I actually disagree. I used to be a music producer (and studied Music Technology at College), and Macs used to dominate that environment. However I have been seeing more and more PCs running studios over the past two years. Macs however are still the dominant platform in that setting and are certainly not just beginning to switch to Mac.

Also, I never said I've never had a problem with Outlook. I have had issues with Outlook in the past, just like I've had issues with Mail.app and many other apps in both Windows and OS X in the past. I don't hate Macs or Apple. I have been the previous owner of many Macs and currently own an iPhone. I admit at not being overly impressed with OS X Lion or Mountain Lion which has initiated by switch back to Windows.

You on the other hand do nothing but hate on Windows saying how awful it is to deal with in the corporate environment, and claim that anything that Microsoft makes is bug ridden and trash.

 

[chrono1081]

it's pretty clear from chrono's posting history he doesn't really know what he's talking about when it comes to enterprise IT discussions.

Its pretty clear from your posting history that you do nothing but condescend people.

Also please tell me where I said anything incorrect about IT? Please I'd LOVE for you to point that out to me.

According to this thread I don't know what I'm talking about because Macs came in to our department? Get real. You know there are places that do more than just office work. There are places, like where I work that do film, effects, create commercials, things like that. Its not an all Windows world out there.

 

[chrono1081]

That is because I don't work in IT. I'm a writer. I do however know various people who do work in IT.

Then how on earth can you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when I've done it for the past 10 years?

I certainly know you don't work in IT because you think that Macs make IT people redundant. From your many posts I was under the impression that you worked in a corporate IT environment, not a media setting.

At my old job, it was a corporate environment. We had no Macs and I would of completely agreed about Macs not invading the workplace back then because there was no use I saw for MacOS and I never saw Macs except for one office of four users, out of the 5000+ users we had.

Then I got a job in a place that is a mix between corporate and media, media being a growing portion of our business. The artists get to choose literally what they want and IT just has to roll with it. They wanted Macs and Linux machines (Linux for Mari and render farms) and we had to roll with it. 10 guys got replaced, I got to stay because I knew Mac (although I have to obtain certification in 6 months or I go to because although I know my job very well, I don't have as many certs as the other guys) and 4 new guys were hired that know Linux inside and out.

You state that Macs are increasing in the media environment. I actually disagree. I used to be a music producer (and studied Music Technology at College), and Macs used to dominate that environment. However I have been seeing more and more PCs running studios over the past two years. Macs however are still the dominant platform in that setting and are certainly not just beginning to switch to Mac.

As far as music I can't answer any of that. I know protools is popular and although we have a music area its not in my building and I know its not used a lot as most music is outsourced (I could be wrong on that).

Also, I never said I've never had a problem with Outlook. I have had issues with Outlook in the past, just like I've had issues with Mail.app and many other apps in both Windows and OS X in the past. I don't hate Macs or Apple. I have been the previous owner of many Macs and currently own an iPhone. I admit at not being overly impressed with OS X Lion or Mountain Lion which has initiated by switch back to Windows.

You on the other hand do nothing but hate on Windows saying how awful it is to deal with in the corporate environment, and claim that anything that Microsoft makes is bug ridden and trash.

I don't hate Windows and I never once said everything Microsoft makes is bug ridden and trash. I make a living because of Windows. I just prefer not to use it at home.

Microsoft has a history of every other release being good. Windows 98 - bad (although 98SE was good), Windows 2000 - Good, Windows ME - Bad, Windows XP - Good, Windows Vista - Bad, Windows 7 (Good and IMO the best Windows OS), Windows 8 - ? (Although shaping up to be bad).

Dealing with XP in a corporate environment wasn't bad, it wasn't without its problems but it wasn't bad.

Vista was horrible (pre-service pack 1) but 7 works just fine. Windows software does have a lot of bugs, its stuff most people will never see but I see because I work with it daily. Microsoft has gone to great lengths in the past few years to push updates to fix things quickly and I applaud them for that, but there are still issues, which I am thankful for because it keeps me employed.

In no way do I ever think Apple will replace Microsoft in a corporate environment. I was simply stating at the beginning of this now de-railed thread that I agreed with the OP's article because I started seeing Macs more and more in the work place. At first I liked it because I like Mac OS, now I don't so much because it could cost me my position.

 

[roadbloc]

Then how on earth can you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when I've done it for the past 10 years?

Because I don't believe you. Do you think I have my head in the sand? I'm a computer enthusiast and I do know stuff about computers, despite never actually having a job which prominently revolves around dealing with them.

You are clearly backtracking which leads me to believe you less. Which now leads me to ask, if you don't care what I think (which is what you said), why are you still trying to defend yourself?

 

[chrono1081]

Because I don't believe you. Do you think I have my head in the sand? I'm a computer enthusiast and I do know stuff about computers, despite never actually having a job which prominently revolves around dealing with them.

Theres a huge difference in being an enthusiast, and working with computers for a living where you have to do lots of planning, troubleshooting, resolving issues very fast, etc. Trust me, it was an eye opener for me when I went from enthusiast to IT 10 years ago.

You are clearly backtracking which leads me to believe you less.

I'm not sure where you think I'm backtracking when all I did was explain going from a business type environment to a media house but oh well.

Which now leads me to ask, if you don't care what I think (which is what you said), why are you still trying to defend yourself?

Your right, I'm done with this thread.