H265/HEVC on MacBook Pro 2016

[TheOkeland]

FINALLY.

I'm excited about this. Right now, I run 10bit 4K HEVC videos in Windows via Bootcamp (MPC-HC) and it's buttery smooth, compared to the stuttering in Sierra.

I have a MBP 2016 15" AMD 460, so the dGPU does have support for it. I hope High Sierra takes full advantage of the dGPU for HW support.

That has nothing to do with the Operating System.
AFAIK when you run Bootcamp-Windows, your iGPU is deactivated and you are running on the dGPU as only GPU.
The dGPU is able to decode 10bit-HEVC, but the dGPU will consume more power.
The problem in Sierra is that AFAIK there is no software that is able to accelerate the dGPU to play video. e.g. AFAIK VLC does not support to play 10bit-HEVC with dGPU and tries to play it with CPU only.

Maybe High Sierra will change something on that side, but it will result in higher power consumtion for the Skylake-models.

On the Kaby Lake models there is 10bit-HEVC Hardware en-/decoding, so there it will always run on the iGPU.
=> more battery efficient, lower temperatures, operating quieter (fan speed)

8bit-HEVC is possible on Skylake and Kaby Lake.

 

[MrGuder]

But how will it work for the betas they are releasing for High Sierra? Will High Sierra automatically know what processor your using and adjust to it accordingly?

 

[Sneakz]

Tried some 1080p HEVC playback and it stayed on the HD 530. So I guess they are using the built in decoding of Skylake. Granted this wasn't 10-bit.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

I was confused by this. They mentioned encoding not decoding, so I assume you still can't play Netflix in 4k for example

 

[mikeo007]

I was confused by this. They mentioned encoding not decoding, so I assume you still can't play Netflix in 4k for example

They mention playback on the High Sierra preview page, so I'd assume it's both encode and decode.

 

[MrGuder]

So High Sierra will be released when iOS 11 is released? So when it's released and we open Safari how will it look any different than Safari on regular Sierra?

 

[vipergts2207]

Quite possibly the best announcement from yesterday IMHO.

I looked into it before buying my tMBP. To the best of my knowledge, with H265 Skylake seems to support 8-bit video encoding/decoding. Kaby supports 10-bit.

I ended up going with the 2016 tMBP, because neither the screen on the MacBookPros nor ThunderBolt3(via DP1.2 or HDMI2.0) support 10-bit video. (Not sure)

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding#Implementations_and_products

That's the thing. The only benefit of H265 will be the ability to decode and the compression, which albeit is not nothing. The display nor the USB-C/TB3 video out supports 10-bit video.

 

[dovvee]

So, on a scale of SRGB -> P3 -> 10-bit colours. Where is the P3 for MBP 2016 screen? Wouldn't we notice any difference at all, when watching a 10-bit video instead of an 8-bit?

 

[TheOkeland]

Tried some 1080p HEVC playback and it stayed on the HD 530. So I guess they are using the built in decoding of Skylake. Granted this wasn't 10-bit.

1080p is not the problem. This discussion is about 4k 10bit H.265/HEVC

 

[vipergts2207]

So, on a scale of SRGB -> P3 -> 10-bit colours. Where is the P3 for MBP 2016 screen? Wouldn't we notice any difference at all, when watching a 10-bit video instead of an 8-bit?

Not sure, but you may be conflating color gamut with bit depth. A wider color gamut means a display can show more extremes of color, say like a really red, red for instance. Bit depth is related to how fine the difference between color shades can be, which may be visible in something like a video of a sunset. It's certainly possible to notice the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit video, which will primarily manifest as color banding between subtle color gradients.

 

[dovvee]

Not sure, but you may be conflating color gamut with bit depth. A wider color gamut means a display can show more extremes of color, say like a really red, red for instance. Bit depth is related to how fine the difference between color shades can be, which may be visible in something like a video of a sunset. It's certainly possible to notice the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit video, which will primarily manifest as color banding between subtle color gradients.

Thanks! I understand it better now

 

[Shamgar]

I was confused by this. They mentioned encoding not decoding, so I assume you still can't play Netflix in 4k for example

Netflix 4k is a DRM restriction, not a codec restriction. Skylake can perform hardware encoding and decoding of 8 bit HEVC. Kaby Lake adds the ability to do the same for 10 bit. But what makes Netflix 4k possible is the addition of HDCP 2.2 in the Kaby Lake GPU. Just another reminder that media companies hate consumers.

 

[hawkeye_a]

That's the thing. The only benefit of H265 will be the ability to decode and the compression, which albeit is not nothing. The display nor the USB-C/TB3 video out supports 10-bit video.

Not to mention that most encoders are software based (ie would not benefit from Kaby over Skylake).
Decoding 10-bit video can be done in software(Skylake) if needed, not that it would matter cause no one would be able to see the benefit anyway.

Kaby is like the first(and so far only) piece of puzzle to get a system which supports 10-bit 4k h265 video support. The next would be a 10-bit native display and/or ThunderBolt4.

I reckon the only "real" benefit of Kaby is the ability to deal with the Netflix DRM thing.

Cheers
CORRECTION: It has been brought to my attention that ThunderBolt3 via DisplayPort 1.2 supports 4k 30-bit color @ 60 Hz

 

[macintoshmac]

Of course it does, otherwise you'd have a black screen.

And no way to tell if that is a GPU-powered black-colored screen or an actually dead screen.

 

[Birkan]

I was watching a WWDC video related to introduction to HEIF and HEVC and I saw this. This is at 21:35 and should clarify everything we were wondering.
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2017/503/

 

[John.B]

Also, according to that slide, every iOS device Apple currently sells has 8-bit and 10-bit HEVC hardware decoding -- except the retina iPad mini 4 (A8).

 

[Weeman4]

Quite possibly the best announcement from yesterday IMHO.

I looked into it before buying my tMBP. To the best of my knowledge, with H265 Skylake seems to support 8-bit video encoding/decoding. Kaby supports 10-bit.

I ended up going with the 2016 tMBP, because neither the screen on the MacBookPros nor ThunderBolt3(via DP1.2 or HDMI2.0) support 10-bit video. (Not sure)

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding#Implementations_and_products

What makes you think the 2017 mbp will not support 10 bit hdr output to a monitor? I thought DP 1.2 supported 10 bit color at 4k 60hz?

Thunderbolttechnology.net/tech/faq
en.wikipedia.org/DisplayPort#1.2

 

[hawkeye_a]

What makes you think the 2017 mbp will not support 10 bit hdr output to a monitor? I thought DP 1.2 supported 10 bit color at 4k 60hz?

Thunderbolttechnology.net/tech/faq
en.wikipedia.org/DisplayPort#1.2

I stand corrected. Thanks for correcting me. For some reason I thought it didn't, I can't remember why!! So, this begs the question, can the late 2016 and now 2017 MBPs support 10-bit color over DisplayPort? (or is there some other piece missing?)

Cheers

PS>>Everyone. My apologies for posting incorrect information regarding ThunderBolt3

UPDATE EDIT>>something's not right.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.2 Looking at that link, it doesnt seem like 1.2 supports 4k 30-bit @120hz. Conflicting information....confused. So what display connection would carry that 4k 30-bit @120hz signal....and to what display? Could anyone shed some light on this please?

 

[caramelpolice]

I stand corrected. Thanks for correcting me. For some reason I thought it didn't, I can't remember why!! So, this begs the question, can the late 2016 and now 2017 MBPs support 10-bit color over DisplayPort? (or is there some other piece missing?)

Cheers

PS>>Everyone. My apologies for posting incorrect information regarding ThunderBolt3

UPDATE EDIT>>something's not right.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#1.2 Looking at that link, it doesnt seem like 1.2 supports 4k 30-bit @120hz. Conflicting information....confused. So what display connection would carry that 4k 30-bit @120hz signal....and to what display? Could anyone shed some light on this please?

DP 1.2 carries 4K 30-bit but only at 60Hz - but that's fine, because good luck finding or affording a 120Hz 30-bit 4K monitor. Last I heard Dell planned to release a $5000 OLED one but canceled it for production issues.

It's also worth nothing Thunderbolt 3 supports running two DP 1.2 streams over a single cable, which is how the LG Ultrafine 5K (which is a 5K 10-bit @ 60Hz panel) works.

 

[hawkeye_a]

DP 1.2 carries 4K 30-bit but only at 60Hz - but that's fine, because good luck finding or affording a 120Hz 30-bit 4K monitor. Last I heard Dell planned to release a $5000 OLED one but canceled it for production issues.

It's also worth nothing Thunderbolt 3 supports running two DP 1.2 streams over a single cable, which is how the LG Ultrafine 5K (which is a 5K 10-bit @ 60Hz panel) works.

Thanks for clearing that up. So ThunderBolt3 does in fact support 4k 10-bit video @60hz.

 

[Seekingshred]

Hawkeye and everyone,

I've been following this post for a while I'd like few opinions that have been using MBP skylake late 2016 as I'm tempted purchasing one 16Ram 2.0ghz however the flipside would be kabylake but way more expensive as I've found the former as a bargain. Can someone tell me if the screen of the MBP supports 10-bit video? Can skylake playback 4k videos easily? Final cut/adobe 4k videos can be edited with issues? Any comments/forward looks much appreciated Thanks!!

 

[EugW]

Hawkeye and everyone,

I've been following this post for a while I'd like few opinions that have been using MBP skylake late 2016 as I'm tempted purchasing one 16Ram 2.0ghz however the flipside would be kabylake but way more expensive as I've found the former as a bargain. Can someone tell me if the screen of the MBP supports 10-bit video? Can skylake playback 4k videos easily? Final cut/adobe 4k videos can be edited with issues? Any comments/forward looks much appreciated Thanks!!

In High Sierra, Skylake can playback 4K 8-bit HEVC videos easily. Not so much for high bit rate 10-bit HEVC videos. There is no hardware decode for the latter, so you'll either get crappy playback, or else you'll get somewhat decent playback but with the CPU seeing very high usage, the fans in vacuum cleaner mode, and your battery screaming for help.

In contrast, it plays gorgeously on any Kaby Lake Mac, even my 2017 Core m3 MacBook.

So if smooth and battery-friendly 10-bit 4K HEVC playback is truly important to you, then get a Kaby Lake 2017 model.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Hawkeye and everyone,

I've been following this post for a while I'd like few opinions that have been using MBP skylake late 2016 as I'm tempted purchasing one 16Ram 2.0ghz however the flipside would be kabylake but way more expensive as I've found the former as a bargain. Can someone tell me if the screen of the MBP supports 10-bit video? Can skylake playback 4k videos easily? Final cut/adobe 4k videos can be edited with issues? Any comments/forward looks much appreciated Thanks!!

The screens are 3K resolution and 8bit colour on MacBook Pros, they support output to 10bit 4K however. If editing 10bit 4K is your main line of work then Kabylake will be worthwhile. Skylake handles 4K easy enough but depends on how high the refresh rate is, 4K 30Hz shouldn't cause issues, HS is still in Beta so difficult to say for certain on 4K 60Hz 10bit. Either way if it's your priority then Kabylake will undoubtedly give a more optimised experience.

 

[hawkeye_a]

Hawkeye and everyone,

I've been following this post for a while I'd like few opinions that have been using MBP skylake late 2016 as I'm tempted purchasing one 16Ram 2.0ghz however the flipside would be kabylake but way more expensive as I've found the former as a bargain. Can someone tell me if the screen of the MBP supports 10-bit video? Can skylake playback 4k videos easily? Final cut/adobe 4k videos can be edited with issues? Any comments/forward looks much appreciated Thanks!!

If watching and editing 4k 10-bit video on your Mac is a requirement, you would be better served by investing in a Kabylake Mac. Note that all this Kabylake support is for 10-bit 4k HEVC video. It might sound like the typical answer... "get the latest and greatest", but specifically for this feature, anything less than Kabylake might be the difference between being able to or not (I still dont know how well HighSierra will fare in this regard).

Apple might be able to pull off some software wizzardy in HighSierra for non-Kaby Macs, but you're still looking at a significant hit to battery life in comparison when decoding anything in software. I don't think the MacBookPro screens are 10-bit (im not sure).

I'm happy with my 2016 tMBP, but i dont use(nor plan to use) my Mac for video playback/editing. If all you are looking for is playback of video, you might want to look into a cheaper option such as an XBoxOneS/X or something like that IMHO.

 

[Seekingshred]

Thanks all for comments! Makes sense I'm more clear now.

The only thing that doesn't make sense is the pricing. Refurbished MBP 2015 directly from Apple UK is 1.6k (same time they sell it as brand new at 1.9k) with Hashwell inside so basically they telling ppl to purchase a 2k laptop which will not be able to do what the 1.2k 13'' potentially can do because of KABY and not the quad core, i7, etc.

How can they price 2015 MBP 15'' so much more than the normal 13'' kaby when the disclaimer of Apple clearly states 6th generation and above for high sierra etc. I don't know i find it oxymoron