Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Hard truths about the new modular Mac Pro

now i see it said:
Based on Apple's current trend of locking everything down to Apple-only proprietary parts, my guess (and it's only a guess based on an assumption — zero facts) is that this new modular MacPro will indeed have easily swappable "modules", but all these modules will all be Apple proprietary parts that will be easy for THEM to upgrade in the future and for us to plug in.
Click to expand...

I really, really doubt this.

It's pretty obvious that Apple doesn't want to be in a position where they have to consistently spend substantial resources on updating the Mac Pro. Proprietary Apple "modules" would require exactly that. It would be much easier for them to just make an Apple branded box that is compatible with standard parts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Synchro3 and JeffPerrin
now i see it said:
There was no hint or talk or mention of making the new modular MacPro a system in which the CUSTOMER could buy something at NewEgg & slap it in the box to upgrade. That wasn't the feeling I got at all.
Click to expand...

The big complaints from pros are the lack of upgradability. So yes, I would expect "modular" to primarily equate with the ability to swap out RAM, storage, GPUs. (Though probably not CPU or chipsets.) This would be in contrast to recent trends of soldered-in RAM (Macbook Pro) and non-upgradable GPU (nMP).
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak
BB8 said:
I really, really doubt this.

It's pretty obvious that Apple doesn't want to be in a position where they have to consistently spend substantial resources on updating the Mac Pro. Proprietary Apple "modules" would require exactly that. It would be much easier for them to just make an Apple branded box that is compatible with standard parts.
Click to expand...

Again, they literally said they engineered themselves into a corner and going back to a modular system that can easily be upgraded/changed in the future.
 
[
ivoruest said:
They just need to release the old tower with new hardware. Thats all. When has server class and pro harware been pretty?? That tower was very well designed to be replaced by a worthless trashcan.
Click to expand...
It could be improved, however.

There's a lot of empty space inside the case - either put more RAM/disk/PCIe slots in, or shrink the case.

And redesign the handles so that it can be rack-mounted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ivoruest, ActionableMango, George Dawes and 5 others
About the cMP that keeps Apple from just "updating" it:
It had a custom size motherboard, so any off-the-shelf motherboards wouldn't work in the cMP case. The motherboard is unable to support usb 3.0 (natively, it needs an expansion card), any Thunderbolt connection, or dual GPU support (crossfire), and 8-pin GPU connectors.

They would have to start from scratch, so I guess it would take Apple at least 3-6 months to hammer out a new motherboard if they simply were to re-use the cMP case.

I'd also guess they'd take the time to redesign most of the case to remove/replace the Firewire ports, the 2nd disc drive slot, and fit a larger PSU (since it would necessitate more power to run modern GPUs (and a LOT more if a dual-GPU set up is an option. They'd have to take the time to make sure the case had adequate cooling for that matter, and keep it whisper-quiet. I'd push that up to a year if they're still shooting for EPA-Gold certification.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt though, I'm not a project manager or engineer. I just think people are severely underestimating the amount of work it would take to make the cMP compatible with current technology.
 
JMacHack said:
About the cMP that keeps Apple from just "updating" it:
It had a custom size motherboard, so any off-the-shelf motherboards wouldn't work in the cMP case. The motherboard is unable to support usb 3.0 (natively, it needs an expansion card), any Thunderbolt connection, or dual GPU support (crossfire), and 8-pin GPU connectors.

They would have to start from scratch, so I guess it would take Apple at least 3-6 months to hammer out a new motherboard if they simply were to re-use the cMP case.

I'd also guess they'd take the time to redesign most of the case to remove/replace the Firewire ports, the 2nd disc drive slot, and fit a larger PSU (since it would necessitate more power to run modern GPUs (and a LOT more if a dual-GPU set up is an option. They'd have to take the time to make sure the case had adequate cooling for that matter, and keep it whisper-quiet. I'd push that up to a year if they're still shooting for EPA-Gold certification.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt though, I'm not a project manager or engineer. I just think people are severely underestimating the amount of work it would take to make the cMP compatible with current technology.
Click to expand...

Um, designing a new case shouldn't take that long.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak
AidenShaw said:
[

It could be improved, however.

There's a lot of empty space inside the case - either put more RAM/disk/PCIe slots in, or shrink the case.

And redesign the handles so that it can be rack-mounted.
Click to expand...

Agreed. There's no way they're going to re-use the G5 design, so I think we can stop talking about that. And I think there are some legitimate ways in which that design could be improved, but I do hope it's something along those lines and not something that's "innovative", but useless.

The good news is we have 2 years to argue and speculate about this :)
 
now i see it said:
One word that came up several times in the historic Apple meeting transcript was that the next MacPro was going to be a modular system. Ok, we all read that.

But what wasn't clarified (understandably) was what that modularity would be.
If you look up any definition of a modular computer, the definition always describes a computer system in which the components are separate entities or modules. The cMP is not considered a modular computer. Neither is the HP-Z.

"A modular PC is a computer that has individually-housed components, which are interconnected but separately removable for service or upgrading.
The format means that users can replace most components themselves because replacing a component does not require them to open enclosures, such as PC cases, or touch ESD-sensitive circuit boards."

Another point that was mentioned was that Apple found that THEY couldn't upgrade the nMP due to its design and that they wanted a new design that THEY could upgrade more easily & frequently in the future.

There was no hint or talk or mention of making the new modular MacPro a system in which the CUSTOMER could buy something at NewEgg & slap it in the box to upgrade. That wasn't the feeling I got at all.

Based on Apple's current trend of locking everything down to Apple-only proprietary parts, my guess (and it's only a guess based on an assumption — zero facts) is that this new modular MacPro will indeed have easily swappable "modules", but all these modules will all be Apple proprietary parts that will be easy for THEM to upgrade in the future and for us to plug in.

This could be great if we can afford the stuff and they truly alter the course of their history of pro hardware neglect by keeping everything cutting edge & up to date, but it is doubtful this new modular MacPro will be similar to anything currently available on the market and the only upgrade path for CUSTOMERS will most very likely be via one path only: Through the Apple Store.
Click to expand...

I'd suppose they'd want to be able to offer annual updates which is what the Pros want, but with parts you have to source from Apple. By routing all graphics through the USB-C ports you don't ever get a traditional PCIe graphics card that you could buy off the shelf you rather a daughter card that plugs into a motherboard and works more like a compute unit rather than a classic graphics card with DVI, Displayport, Mini Displayport and VGA ports on it.

Not a lot of software would have used dual GPUs to their fullest extent and some professionals wouldn't have even wanted one GPU - never mind 2. And let's not forget that software that isn't aware of dual GPUs would leave one GPU as an underemployed screen renderer with the other GPU doing all the 'hard work'.

If Apple choose to solder everything onto the motherboard it would be a very expensive thing for them to replace (under an Apple Care warranty for example) if one component failed so for supply chain reasons it makes sense for a Pro product to have 'modular' components, especially one they intend to sell in more volume than the 2013 Mac Pro if they reduce the entry price to gain sales from those 'pro' Mini users.

Now, RAM should come slotted for easy upgrades and replacements. We can expect Apple to get proprietary with SSD to prevent folks from buying up cheaper Samsung 960 Pro sticks, it'd be nice to have internal SATA 3 ports for hard drives that users can upgrade.

I wonder if Apple would actually supply base Pros with 32Gb of Optane SSD to run the OS and then allow storage tiering (super Fusion drive) with more standard fitment M.2 SSDs or hard drives in drive bays?

If the mMP has an integrated graphics only option it might suit a lot of people whose workflows don't need GPUs but I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple-only GPU options due in part to the need to use USB-C as the connector standard which could also route data traffic as well. With GPUs moving on more often than Intel CPUs you can offer a 'speed bump' GPU configuration while keeping the basic CPU model the same.

To encourage Mini users to upgrade to a Mac Pro, Apple would simply make it their most 'energy efficient' model and load it with 15w CPUs from the non touch bar Macbook Pros. This might allow Apple to make it even smaller and perhaps power all of them directly from the 4k LG monitor.

The base modular Mac Pro would come with integrated graphics, a Xeon E3, and 4 USB-C ports and aimed solidly at musicians, scientists, and programmers. With less to cool, could it also be the quietest Mac Pro if special heat sinks and slow fans or sound deadening were options?

Higher end models would have the extra GPU options and probably Xeon E5 CPUs with the highest end allowing dual CPU options to return for the video editors, renderers, compute scientists etc. It would be the most powerful iteration. And obviously the most expensive.

And clearly any press from these would imply a road map going ahead even if they don't actually describe one. For example, explaining how it would be relatively easier for people like Nvidia to offer GPU daughter card options annually through Apple. Similarly for AMD (who might provide the 'standard' GPUs).

They'd also show how users can replace what they consider to be commodity parts that can fail themselves - RAM, storage, and maybe even PCIe x4 cards?
 
  • Like
Reactions: f-boy
"Apple hasn't shared a lot of detail on the new Mac Pro, but the promised modular design will allow professional users to keep it up to date with new hardware on a regular basis. Apple executives have said the machine will also be able to handle virtual reality software and high-end cinema editing, pointing towards support for higher-end single GPUs, and Apple also plans to ship the machine with an Apple-branded professional display."

Hallelujah!

Not before bloody time!!!

The Apple Cube had long ago proved their was no appetite for a product like the current Mac Pro.

Those who have said we need a cMP with modern specs are nearly right, but I think it needs to be a bit more than that.
4 PCIe slots isn't really enough IMO, especially if Apple remove legacy connectors like firewire and standard USB ports in their efforts to 'improve' it like they have on recent Mac laptops.
So more PCIe slots would be a good move, as would more internal slots for hard drives/SSDs.
For those like me who use their Mac Pro for music, a nice quiet Mac Pro would be perfect! :)

It also needs to be aspirational.
The cMP was their flagship and most aspirational product - the current Mac Pro is not!
If it's to be their flagship then it should look like it.

Modular is fine and well, but I'd prefer 'user expandable' rather than a true modular.
I don't want to have to literally build my own Mac Pro, I just want the potential to upgrade it.
So I don't want to have to buy a 'Hard Drive Bay' for example, I want that to be part of the computer to begin with.
Likewise with PCIe slots.
If they make it too modular where you have to buy individual parts that will defeat the object and it will fail..AGAIN!!!

Finally...and this one is important...PRICE!!!

My 8 Core 4.1 Mac Pro cost £1699 in 2009. The current entry level Mac Pro is nearly double that at £2999.
That's just too high a price IMO.
The next Mac Pro line needs a model starting sub £2000.
Being aspirational is good, being unaffordable is not.
Apple managed this balance with the cMP, they need to do the same with the next line too.
Like with DSLR's, it isn't only professionals that want to own professional products, but if Apple price it too high those aspirational buyers will likely never actually purchase one - it has to be attainable.

£3000 for a computer in 2017 - that's just silly.

So this is a big chance for Apple and it's important one too.

Get this right and they'll probably continue to rule the roost for many years to come.

Get it wrong and they risk losing their pro market (and enviable reputation) forever.

They haven't really had any success on the computer front since the passing of Steve Jobs, so lets hope the new Mac Pro will be the first new product to buck that trend (fingers crossed).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak and George Dawes
Denmac1 said:
As much as I still love my G5 2006 Cheese Grater, which I thought was an outstanding well thought machine, I don't think Apple will duplicate the effort. We still have a bean counter in charge and shipping costs have increased dramatically since 2006 and those darn things weighed 40 pounds.
However, we could only hope that Ive could come out of his ivory tower and perform another design miracle (however, I believe that Steve was his muse)
I don't really care where my computer sits as long as it's convenient to switch on. The Mac Mini is fine for a top of desk unit, but even I don't have enough desk real estate for the trash can.
And wtf with almost 2 years to bring to market? They have enough staff AND money to do it right and within a reasonable amount of time.
Click to expand...

I'm typing this on a 5,1. Shipping 40 lbs is nothing. I buy 40 lbs of oatmeal and wheat berries on a regular basis. I buy diesel fuel additive online and have it shipped. I could care less if their solution weighs 60 lbs, just so it works once I put it in its place.

I read the full transcript of the discussion, and I found it heartening. The 6,1 could have been considered modular. The idea was that if you needed a storage array, you would connect it via a cable. If you need a new graphics card, just stick it in a sled. Get whatever monitor you want (with adapters). However, the fact that they are clearly distancing themselves from the 6,1 design tells me that by 'modular', it will likely include the capability to change out most of the internals. It's odd that they plan to take so long to design the new product. Like others here, I'm hoping that does not involve any new proprietary connectors that limits future upgrades.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hank Carter
Here is the hardest truth of them all. Half of Pro Users are already gone. They are using modular Windows boxes that are twice as powerful at half the price and available TODAY. If this doesn't happen until 2019, the other half will be long gone as well. So they will finally make a computer for a market who has moved on. Insane decisions instead of "insanely great" from Cook and Ive. 6 YEARS for a new or even slightly updated MacPro ?? ( seriously, just think about that )
Unless they announce it in the next two months, and ship in EARLY 2018, stick a fork in it. It's done. Don't even bother.
We all know Apple could do this, but won't. This is only in the earliest talking stages, and 90% of the staff is working on making a thinner ( fill in the blank ).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Queen6, mrxak, Hank Carter and 4 others
I don't know the numbers... Maybe you're right... Maybe half of pro users are already gone... Maybe the other half will be gone soon too... Maybe by the time the new Mac Pro is released, there will be zero pro users interested...

But I know at least a small number of users who are still waiting and will be in line to buy if what's introduced is what we all hope they will be.

You make it sound as if making products thin is bad. I don't know about you but I'm happy current MacBooks/MacBook Pros/MacBook Airs are not the size of an Osborne One.
 
pastrychef said:
I don't think that the MacPro1.1-5,1 ever sold in the quantities that Apple had hoped and the ones that were sold were held on to and upgraded and in use for many years. Then, people/companies who upgraded tended to sell used Mac Pros that were again in use for many years.

My theory is that with the MacPro6,1, Apple deliberately created a system with limited upgradability like pretty much every other product in their lineup with the hopes that it could increase the upgrade cycle of Mac Pro users. This backfired because the 6,1 was not a system that attracted the first round of buyers.

As sales of Mac Pros continued to decline, there was less focus on the Mac Pro and iMac sales climbed. I truly believe that lots of people bought iMacs for lack of a better choice and Apple mistook this as pros migrating to iMacs. But, at the end of the day, it's the pros who craved powerful, expandable Mac Pros couldn't make due with iMacs anymore and started seeking alternatives...

Again, this is just my theory and I have no evidence to back any of it up.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this. No evidence, but I did recently see a trend never-before-seen with an Apple product. A few weeks ago, I was looking for a computer on e-bay. Just on a lark, I decided to see what the 6,1 would cost. Much to my surprise, they were selling on e-bay at a SIGNIFICANT discount to the new price. Usually, Apple products hold their value until a replacement comes out. To me, the only explanation for a bunch of used 6,1 computers coming up for sale is that the users are leaving the entire OS X ecosystem. I suppose it's possible that commercial users don't want to use a machine outside of the warranty window, but I doubt that's what was going on. I almost wonder if Apple didn't get some idea how many pros are jumping ship entirely. As a stopgap, they announced development plans early to try to induce some pros to suck it up and use what the current hardware offerings are until the new stuff comes out.

As for the general pessimism in these forums about Apple producing another locked-down system upgradeable only with Apple parts, I can't imagine they'll do that this time. Speaking for myself, having used Apple products since the Apple IIc, I still can't get over the shock of a pre-announcement about a future product. This is an enormous cultural shift at Apple, and should indicate to us that Apple's thinking about professionals has/is changed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OttawaGuy, mrxak and Synchro3
My gut feeling is that an Apple modular workstation design will end up looking a bit like a B&O hi-fi stack but with more ventilation and less turntables:
224-2014228205234_540x360.jpg

In the meantime, my MP 3,1 with its i5 and i7 Hackintosh support units will soldier on.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Flint Ironstag and George Dawes
An updated iMac might hold onto some of the pros for a while though if an iMac works for them they wouldn't be going Mac Pro anyway.

That said 2019 would be just plain ridiculous!

Whatever new form factor they are planning, just don't over complicate it. Keep it simple and upgradable, non proprietary where industry standards suffice!
 
  • Like
Reactions: pat500000 and Synchro3
pastrychef said:
When did the ETA for the next Mac Pros change to 2019?
Click to expand...
2019 is coming from a reporter for OSnews.com who said

" I have no idea how long it takes to develop a new computer like a Mac Pro, but I think we can expect the new Mac Pro late 2018 at the earliest, but most likely it won't be until early 2019 before it ships."
​
it's on MR front page..
imo, it shouldn't be taken seriously simply because he starts off with 'I have no idea how long it takes to develop a new computer like a Mac Pro" ;)


----
here:
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/06/mac-pro-may-not-ship-until-2019/
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrxak, ActionableMango, pat500000 and 1 other person
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back