Has Apple Silicon made you reconsider the Mac platform?

[stevenaaus]

Maybe its just me, but this section of the forum seems to have gone a little quieter lately. I wondered if the advent of the M1 Macs and their incredible performance (plus how they are likely to perform in the future with the next chips) has made any defectors consider returning to the Mac?

Just weighing in on original post
Performance means next to nothing in most contexts. All modern CPUs are super super fast. What matters is OS bloat and software and hardware bugginess. M1 and modern macOS have bugs in spades. :*(&^! So , yes, the M1 has made me "reconsider the Mac platform"... in an increasingly poor regard.

Without a great developer community, the Mac will go into a downward spiral IMO. It won’t be any better than iPadOS

Yah... but it's the sad fact of modern internet and computing. The money men running Apple don't care about *any* communities. It's just all about dollar signs and iPhones to them. There's no way they can leverage support for developers in any real PR fashion like they do many other "causes"

 

[Motti Shneor]

I am ok with the iPhone, I don't need a complex or expensive phone but I do love the watch so have no choice but to have an iPhone. Also good with the iPad, Airpods Pro, Apple TV and Fitness+. All of these devices have use and purpose in my life and thus far have always been great, other than me dropping my current iPad pro and breaking the screen.

On the laptop side though it has just been issue after issue and the M1 is not without them. The Bluetooth issues that have been around since 2018 persist. Apple claims to have a fix coming. Be aware that not all wide/ultrawide monitors will function correctly on any M1 device, another fix Apple claims to have en route and there are some other issues.

To be honest, though I see Macs as a legacy part of the Apple line-up now. The sensible analysis that I see takes account for the home working surge and M1 but notes the units are in fact going down whilst everything else goes up.

Not suggesting the Mac is going anywhere, not yet anyway but in time the non-mac devices and services will continue increasing to the point Apple will move even more focus away from the Mac and towards the devices and services that make them the most money and will make even more as the years go on and more users are pulled in as a lot of the devices they really want get cheaper (iPhones, iPads & Watch).

Actually, unit sales do go up. Also, as long as the only way to develop for iOS, tvOS watchOS and macOS is by using a Mac... you're bound to have Mac evolving and selling. Furthermore, in the last decade or so Apple has been closing the gap between iOS devices and Macs continuously and relentlessly, to the point where they even allow writing one software with adaptive UI design tool that will optimise itself to any iOS device and Mac device --- meaning - any iOS app developed is also a Mac app developed. Price gap will also close, now that Apple Silicon brings the same hardware design elements of iOS into Mac. The Mac will not "go away", but the MEANING of the word "Macintosh Computer" will change a lot in coming years, until the transition from iPhone through iPad to Mac will be very smooth, with lots of offerings all along the line. My view is - Apple gets worse on both Software, Human-Interface, and concept design, which brings the whole ecosystem down a notch every new release. Current Macs are (for me) way less usable and helpful than my Macs from the late 90's and early 20's. they do less, they confuse more, they're inconsistent and buggy, and the price remained more or less the same.

 

[maflynn]

Performance means next to nothing in most contexts. All modern CPUs are super super fast. What matters is OS bloat and software and hardware bugginess. M1 and modern macOS have bugs in spades. :*(&^! So , yes, the M1 has made me "reconsider the Mac platform"... in an increasingly poor regard.

I have to disagree with the sentiment. Reviews, and even synthetic benchmarks have shown that the M1 is significantly faster and for many professionals, time is money. For example, If a M1 mac renders a video in 5 minutes, but an intel Mac (or PC) renders the same video in 12 minutes, then its clear the M1 is the better tool for the job.

 

[GoldfishRT]

I have to disagree with the sentiment. Reviews, and even synthetic benchmarks have shown that the M1 is significantly faster and for many professionals, time is money. For example, If a M1 mac renders a video in 5 minutes, but an intel Mac (or PC) renders the same video in 12 minutes, then its clear the M1 is the better tool for the job.

My counterpoint would be that rendering and exporting make up a small amount of time overall in the video making process and is almost never something that's done during working hours.

Obviously people have different workflows but none of the places I've worked with do anything other than overnights, even for short projects.

To be clear though, I am not a video editor but, I do work with people that are a few times a year to generate promotional materials. That also doesn't take away that if you're looking for a new tool then an M1 Mac may very well be better. Given the number of people working on ancient Macs however, I don't know that it's as important as many tech YouTubers make it out to be.

 

[I7guy]

My counterpoint would be that rendering and exporting make up a small amount of time overall in the video making process and is almost never something that's done during working hours.

Obviously people have different workflows but none of the places I've worked with do anything other than overnights, even for short projects.

To be clear though, I am not a video editor but, I do work with people that are a few times a year to generate promotional materials. That also doesn't take away that if you're looking for a new tool then an M1 Mac may very well be better. Given the number of people working on ancient Macs however, I don't know that it's as important as many tech YouTubers make it out to be.

In the spirit of the thread right tool for the right job. Case in point, my son (who is temporarily sheltering in place with us through covid) has two macbook air pros. One he does development on and the other he uses for games and other activities. Yet, sometimes he still needs to use the surface pro for various things.

If my livelihood depending on video editing I would get the best tool for the job no matter the expense. If my livelihood depended on mobile video editing get the best tool at the best price.

 

[The_Interloper]

Current Macs are (for me) way less usable and helpful than my Macs from the late 90's and early 20's. they do less, they confuse more, they're inconsistent and buggy, and the price remained more or less the same.

I've never known Macs to be as buggy as they are now - and that's after 25 years of buying Apple gear. This is the latest kernel panic my 2018 i5 Mac Mini woke up to this morning: Sleep transition timed out after 180 seconds while calling power state change callbacks

I haven't had any such issues with my M1 MBP which makes me wonder if Apple has simply stopped caring about Intel models. Doesn't bode well for future updates. This thing kernel panics regularly, has issues waking from sleep, has problems with external monitors and peripherals...the list goes on.

And no, it's not faulty - it's a replacement for a 2018 i3 model that did all the same things.

 

[thunng8]

My counterpoint would be that rendering and exporting make up a small amount of time overall in the video making process and is almost never something that's done during working hours.

Obviously people have different workflows but none of the places I've worked with do anything other than overnights, even for short projects.

To be clear though, I am not a video editor but, I do work with people that are a few times a year to generate promotional materials. That also doesn't take away that if you're looking for a new tool then an M1 Mac may very well be better. Given the number of people working on ancient Macs however, I don't know that it's as important as many tech YouTubers make it out to be.

Rendering and exporting might only take up a small portion, but the big deal is responsiveness when editing in your timeline. That’s where m1 is also shines even more than the final export and where it makes a difference all the time when video editing.

 

[thunng8]

I've never known Macs to be as buggy as they are now - and that's after 25 years of buying Apple gear. This is the latest kernel panic my 2018 i5 Mac Mini woke up to this morning: Sleep transition timed out after 180 seconds while calling power state change callbacks

I haven't had any such issues with my M1 MBP which makes me wonder if Apple has simply stopped caring about Intel models. Doesn't bode well for future updates. This thing kernel panics regularly, has issues waking from sleep, has problems with external monitors and peripherals...the list goes on.

And no, it's not faulty - it's a replacement for a 2018 i3 model that did all the same things.

My Mac mini i5 used to have lots of issues with sleep in Mojave when combined with a dell u2720q. Moving to Big Sur solved all of those issues and haven’t had a kernel panic since.

 

[The_Interloper]

My Mac mini i5 used to have lots of issues with sleep in Mojave when combined with a dell u2720q. Moving to Big Sur solved all of those issues and haven’t had a kernel panic since.

I am on the latest version of Big Sur.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

We will find out when M1X systems ship.

They've been bringing back a lot of user-requested features in terms of ports on the MacBooks.

Maybe they'll bring back user-expandability too.

I run a Mojave VM on my Windows 10700 System. It runs well though expect video artifacts. There is a way to integrate the video for much better video performance - it involves running QEMU-KVM and I'm not really sure how to go about doing that. It can be done on WSL 2 as well and I'd love to get that working but I looked at the directions and didn't bother trying.

This is the problem. The virtualization people need to make GPU passthrough painless and universal. The amount of hoop jumping to make this work right now is infuriating.

 

[derekamoss]

It hasn't made me reconsider but it has made me excited about what will eventually come to the windows
tablets/2-in-1's. Form factor nowdays is more important to me than hardware or windows vs macOS and apple and since the surface devices are able to do what I want. I used to think Apple was either to stubborn or stupid because they didn't have a touchscreen desktop OS or a 2-in-1 but I came to the realization a while ago. Apple won't do it because they want you to buy an iPad plus a Mac and get more money than giving people what they actually want. Trust me, once the iPad sales plateau and people aren't buying them because arm has caught up with the or they last so long people don't upgrade them, then that's when they will release a 2-in-1 so you can buy ANOTHER product.

 

[ctjack]

Well, long story short - they closed ios app sideloading again. Luckily i got my needed apps installed before the lockdown.

 

[dk001]

The potential ability aside, I dropped my chips on a new Lenovo X1. Have come to really like the hybrid and growing increasingly displeased with my MB. Maybe in a couple of years if Apple gets it head on straight I'll replace my MB.

• I need Windows
• Most of my dev work requires it.

 

[LeeW]

I am waiting until we see a new MBP 14/16" and the larger iMac. Neither are suggested for release until late 2021. Not in any rush. Considering a new iPad, the current Air looks totally fine, apart from that perhaps new S6 Watches for me and Mrs W.

Focussing really well on my PC at the moment which is working great for me. Having to use an HP EliteBook, i7, 16GB for work at the moment. Not had a Windows laptop for a long time and it is actually quite good.

Jury really is out at the moment, really not missing macOS right now.

 

[LiE_]

I am waiting until we see a new MBP 14/16" and the larger iMac. Neither are suggested for release until late 2021. Not in any rush. Considering a new iPad, the current Air looks totally fine, apart from that perhaps new S6 Watches for me and Mrs W.

Focussing really well on my PC at the moment which is working great for me. Having to use an HP EliteBook, i7, 16GB for work at the moment. Not had a Windows laptop for a long time and it is actually quite good.

Jury really is out at the moment, really not missing macOS right now.

I'm on my Windows laptop which I find pretty good. I do miss macOS but I'm struggling to quantify it. For my work, I spend all my time in Office/Teams/Chrome, and the experience is better on Windows. Me wanting macOS is actually worse for my work, but I'm convinced it's better for everything else (bar gaming) for me.

I'm like you in that I really enjoy my iPhone, Apple watch and more recently Fitness+. These things I wouldn't want to replace. However when it comes to my PC, mac hardware doesn't pull me as much. Sure there are some nice integrations between my phone and macOS but these don't provide huge benefit. I do love the mac hardware, especially the screens.

Apple Silicon is really good and brings a lot to the table, but honestly, it doesn't make a huge difference to me. For my workflow (Lightroom is the most demanding app) the performance on offer from Apple/Intel/AMD is already enough.

 

[maflynn]

the experience is better on Windows.

That's how I feel for both professional and personal usage. Work wise, I had to make a number of compromises to get things to work. With the pandemic and working 100% at home, it would not be feasible long term, so I was fortunate to make the jump prior to this ugly mess we call covid.

Personally, I'm able to play the games that would not be possible on macOS. True, I could windows by way of bootcamp, but I've always had issues and headaches especially when MS pushes updates.

I can't see myself spending 4k on a laptop, even if the processor is much faster, simply because it won't run the apps I need it too.

 

[hajime]

I am bored with MacBook Pro design. Too bad I cannot find a PC manufacturer that can make high quality laptops.

 

[dk001]

I am bored with MacBook Pro design. Too bad I cannot find a PC manufacturer that can make high quality laptops.

Interesting point.
I have had to have more repairs to my MB (keyboard x2) than my X280.
But then my old Dell XPS 15 .... ugh.

There are some good quality laptops out there. Sadly you just have to make sure you do some decent investigation before you buy.

 

[I7guy]

[...]
Personally, I'm able to play the games that would not be possible on macOS. True, I could windows by way of bootcamp, but I've always had issues and headaches especially when MS pushes updates.[...]

This is an important point for me as well. With shelter in place I found I like playing games on my pc after about 15 years. Currently the only two I play are doom eternal and FS 2020. My rx 580 handles doom eternal ok, but fs 2020 eeks out about 30 fps.

 

[hajime]

Interesting point.
I have had to have more repairs to my MB (keyboard x2) than my X280.
But then my old Dell XPS 15 .... ugh.

There are some good quality laptops out there. Sadly you just have to make sure you do some decent investigation before you buy.

From what I read, Lenovo's laptops especially the Thinkpads have too quality but I have tried several models and none of them were up to my standard. Usually poor backlights, crazy fan noise, TB3/BIOS issues, very heavy and large AC adapter, etc. What other brands do you recommend?

 

[maflynn]

but fs 2020 eeks out about 30 fps.

Similarly CyberPunk 2077 is exceedingly demanding. My Razer Laptop with a RTX 2070 Max-Q was getting FPS in the 30 range with ray tracing on. W/o ray tracing I think it managed a bit better (low 40s). My newly built desktop with a RTX 2060-Super is doing better. The game is playable with ray tracing but I have it off, as I want to try to get close to 60fps and the 2060 isn't that much of a powerhouse here in 2021.

I play are doom eternal and FS 2020.

I started playing doom eternal though it hasn't fully grabbed me. I played the original doom game when it came out, but these latest iterations just hasn't fully grabbed me for some reason.

My game of choice is Fallout 76, and while its much maligned, I'm fully invested and addicted. I'll be on the hunt for a new game this weekend, maybe one of the tomb raider games, or star wars games.

I am bored with MacBook Pro design. Too bad I cannot find a PC manufacturer that can make high quality laptops.

I thought you were happy with your Mac? Given how many years you took of buying/returning PC laptops, I'd say stick with Macs and not be tempted by a PC

but I have tried several models and none of them up to my standard. Usually poor backlights, crazy fan noise, TB3/BIOS issues, very heavy and large AC adapter, etc. What other brands do you recommend?

Given what you were posting when you owned them, you were having unrealistic expectations. If memory serves me, many of those prior issues were more of personal preference and not defects. The fans were to loud, the laptop was too heavy. it didn't fit a case that you wanted, etc. etc

 

[dk001]

From what I read, Lenovo's laptops especially the Thinkpads have too quality but I have tried several models and none of them were up to my standard. Usually poor backlights, crazy fan noise, TB3/BIOS issues, very heavy and large AC adapter, etc. What other brands do you recommend?

After looking at several I ended up choosing between Lenovo and Razer.
Went with the X1 as it was a best fit for me.

 

[ctjack]

My Razer Laptop with a RTX 2070 Max-Q was getting FPS in the 30 range with ray tracing on. W/o ray tracing I think it managed a bit better (low 40s). My newly built desktop with a RTX 2060-Super is doing better. The game is playable with ray tracing but I have it off, as I want to try to get close to 60fps and the 2060 isn't that much of a powerhouse here in 2021.

That is the mess from Nvidia - it turns out that even laptop 2060s with 115 Watt are more powerful than 2070 max-q. Also desktop 2060 Super is 2-10% faster than 2080 (laptop) Super Max-q and 10-20% slower than 2080 (laptop) Super.

 

[maflynn]

That is the mess from Nvidia

I don't think its very messy, at least the 20 series RTX boards. It makes sense to what they did and how laptop makers were able to squeeze out performance. I fully expect a desktop GPU to out perform mobile GPUs. From what little I know, the 30 series, well that's messy, especially since they dropped the Max-Q moniker, so you may be rocking with a Max-Q and not know it.

 

[ctjack]

well that's messy, especially since they dropped the Max-Q moniker, so you may be rocking with a Max-Q and not know it.

At least they mandated that manufacturers should specify on websites and booklets the wattage of GPUs. So at least when you get something <=90W you know that it is some sort of Max-q.