Windows will come to M1 Macs only if Microsoft sells retail licenses. Apple doesn't seem that concerned one way or the other.
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Has Apple Silicon made you reconsider the Mac platform?
- Thread starter The_Interloper
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Remember, people who post on MacRumors, etc. aren't entirely representative of Mac users as a whole.
Indeed, that is why it was only one element of my comment, outside of these forums no Windows is a big issue as well.
I interact with a lot of people that use Apple devices, it really is in the top 2 reasons for not upgrading to AS at this time.
So basically you made up the 5%
Your logic is flawed, you're using only Parallels, which is one of three companies that offer virtualization, the other two, you have no way of determining anything close to usage, and then there's bootcamp.
I think you need to admit that you don't know how many Mac users need/want to use windows and thus making a supposition that its not important or over blown is also flawed.
Apple wants its users to use macOS, not windows, so the move to ARM suits their philosophy, what it doesn't fit is many Mac users who like Macs but also need windows
I can't speak for everyone, but for the people I know buying two computers simply because one computer fails at a given need isn't really feasible. I know people do that, but I think for many (most?) consumers if a product like the Mac fails to meet a specific need they'll not buy a Mac and a PC. Why bother at that point, just get the PC and have it meet your of your needs.
This poster claims Parallels has said they have 6 million users, and estimates 10% of Mac users run Windows, in response to another poster who made the 5% claim. 6 million users is in the ballpark of my revenue estimate, depending on how often users upgrade.
Craig Federighi: Native Windows on M1 Macs is 'Really up to Microsoft'
The installed Mac user base is ~100M, and Parallels says they have 6M users, giving 6% + 1% + (% using VM Fusion) + (% using Virtual Box). So probably closer to 10% than 5% for Windows+Linux (and probably more than 5% for Windows alone). Note also that Virtual Box is free, so it could have a...
forums.macrumors.com
AppleInsider has estimated 2% of users have BootCamp installed. There will be a lot of overlap between BootCamp and Parallels/VMWare/VirtualBox users. VMware Fusion is a bit of an afterthought for VMWare, and VirtualBox is mostly for hobbyists. If the Parallels claims are correct, then the 10% estimate is probably correct (that would imply about 10-12 million total out of about 115 million active Macs). Of course, that's 10% who have Windows installed. Some may have it, and no longer use it, or will come to the conclusion that they no longer need it. The bottom line is that if Apple thought they'd lose a lot of Mac users because it no longer supports Windows applications, they'd have found a way to make it happen.
While I am not overly concerned with your 5% non factual based estimate we do have other interesting numbers from the horses mouthThis poster claims Parallels has said they have 6 million users, and estimates 10% of Mac users run Windows, in response to another poster who made the 5% claim. 6 million users is in the ballpark of my revenue estimate, depending on how often users upgrade.
Craig Federighi: Native Windows on M1 Macs is 'Really up to Microsoft'
The installed Mac user base is ~100M, and Parallels says they have 6M users, giving 6% + 1% + (% using VM Fusion) + (% using Virtual Box). So probably closer to 10% than 5% for Windows+Linux (and probably more than 5% for Windows alone). Note also that Virtual Box is free, so it could have a...
AppleInsider has estimated 2% of users have BootCamp installed. There will be a lot of overlap between BootCamp and Parallels/VMWare/VirtualBox users. VMware Fusion is a bit of an afterthought for VMWare, and VirtualBox is mostly for hobbyists. If the Parallels claims are correct, then the 10% estimate is probably correct (that would imply about 10-12 million total out of about 115 million active Macs). Of course, that's 10% who have Windows installed. Some may have it, and no longer use it, or will come to the conclusion that they no longer need it. The bottom line is that if Apple thought they'd lose a lot of Mac users because it no longer supports Windows applications, they'd have found a way to make it happen.
Given that even MacOS users using professional grade software on a regular basis is a minority in a minority all this raw power means little in reality to the majority of Apple users who buy on brand/marketing
Contra to reading here on MR and other places average users are not compiling and fiddling with 4k/8k videos on a regular basis. Like many W10 users they are just doing boring dailies and surfing and YouTube etc
All this fuss is for us enthusiasts and to pad out Apple clever marketing. I suspect W10 users on MacOS are a minority as much as gamers are and full time professionals are
Apple have a fine reputation for delivering premium products with a convenience of one brand integration of course this comes with a price too suit.
I am always amazed how almost frivolously Apple owners commit to a luxury brand and the overall cost of ownership for the ECO yet would hesitate if applied to other aspects of daily life
We have interesting times ahead for us here on MR but IRL things may pan out entirely different
I've now looked at the new M1 Mac's first hand and they are impressive and only likely to make leaps and bounds in performance over the near to mid term. I would certainly consider a new Mac on Apple's own silicon, equally it would be firmly a secondary, if not a tertiary system as the inability to run so many applications is a bind in the professional realm. The likes of a base model Air, as the usage would be limited to basic tasks, despite the performance on tap.
The new M1 Mac's are certainly a lot better than the previous garbage Apple has been foisting on it's users since 2016, yes Intel has a hand in that one, equally Apple opted design such inadequate systems and sell them off the back of big number specs and poor performance.
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The new M1 Mac's are certainly a lot better than the previous garbage Apple has been foisting on it's users since 2016, yes Intel has a hand in that one, equally Apple opted design such inadequate systems and sell them off the back of big number specs and poor performance.
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People tend to forget that macs are really popular among developers. And that is one one hand because of MacOS, since you can use real native terminal, and most of linux tools work on mac as well.
But other thing that developers love is ability to run all 3 major OS on one machine. You can have windows, linux and macos. Mostly without any issues. Now, you can do that on PC side as well, but virtualization of MacOS is really bad.
Loosing that will impact developers. How will they react, only time will tell.
But other thing that developers love is ability to run all 3 major OS on one machine. You can have windows, linux and macos. Mostly without any issues. Now, you can do that on PC side as well, but virtualization of MacOS is really bad.
Loosing that will impact developers. How will they react, only time will tell.
I went from PowerMac to PowerBook to MacBook Pro and to Windows 10, and I'm sure that I like what Apple's done with the hardware, especially for the "low end".
I'm not exactly thrilled with Big Sur and the direction it is headed. Still, I'd like to believe that Apple have a plan for discrete graphics hardware to work with their future Mac processors, instead of inbuilt versions. They'd have to have something more, even for the games I play and other software I use, which are not the most demanding.
I'm not exactly thrilled with Big Sur and the direction it is headed. Still, I'd like to believe that Apple have a plan for discrete graphics hardware to work with their future Mac processors, instead of inbuilt versions. They'd have to have something more, even for the games I play and other software I use, which are not the most demanding.
Here's the issue - you're fighting a point that I never made. Again, all I said was that some people leaving the Apple Mac ecosystem will offset some of the gains of new customers. Even if you use your made up number of 5% that means 5% will offset any gains (assuming all of the 5% leave )
Again here's my quote and I bolded the important bits
All I'm doing is saying apple will lose some customers, I postulate that they will lose other customers over the idea of them controlling everything, whether its their long range plan of moving everything to the MAS or having Macs phoning home to apple's security servers, that rubs people the wrong way. One size does not fit all and in a platform change people don't/won't stick around Will this second category of people leaving amount to much? If I were to guess, I'd say no
What specific apps do you need that don’t run on Macs? Are there equivalent Mac apps? More importantly, if the M1 Mac could still run Windows, would it be your primary system?
Apple is likely to gain more customers than it will loose IMO. The more technical or those with needs outside of Apple is not Apple's target audience today, nor do I think Apple wants such customers as they will only be the ones to dig into things & question more.
As for the security I doubt the average user outside of forum's such as this remotely cares as they have already given up much of their privacy to either Apple or Google. They will however be attracted by highly portable thin & light notebooks that present significant performance gains and long battery runtimes that currently nothing else on any platform is remotely close to.
Same users will be more than happy to sit within the walled garden. Myself If I had the need I'd be investigating the viability of an M1 Mac simply off the back of the impressive battery life and I've hardly been positive towards Apple for a good number of years. Yes the M1 Mac's do have some limitations, equally for a secondary or tertiary system the M1 Air or Pro are now strong contenders...
TBH I'm tempted to pickup a base model Air and see what I see. Then in the event of normality returning and the next ever more performant Mac's available I'd be up to speed and good to go assuming I can get it to do what I need it too...
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That's me, once normality returns here in the UK and I am back in the office on a regular basis, my issues with Apple will no doubt be put aside for a new MBA/MBP when it can last as long as this new device whilst throwing out good performance.
Unfortunately normality vaporised 11 months ago for me 🤪 In my realm we tend to consider even a skewed model normalised after a certain point in time. I'm seeing some encouraging results with the likes of Crossover and the premise of having the performance of this hex core PC and then some in a 13" package is far too promising to dismiss off the bat.
As for Apple's baggage no doubt in time same as W10 it will be circumvented, previously I used Little Snitch to not necessarily cut the cord, more to monitor...
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I now know I need Windows for school and work, so I will be one of those rare few who has two systems at some point. Uncertain if I will wait on another M chip Mac given how off the rails the BTO M1 MBA flew when I was performing video playback tests etc. The Memory pressure spiked hard and it just did not like me multitasking even with 16gb of RAM. Shame because I love the hardware, the M1 MBA is a delight to use. Rosetta emulation was a snap and it is a great little machine.
I have too much invested on the Mac platform for me to quit it, though I am not happy with Apple’s increased lockdown.
To be fair, the Intel Evo chip machines I tried had similar issues where they choked up in just trying to remote into my former work PC. We finally have solid internet, but I realize I need a Win10 machine with 16gb of RAM here. So the comments about cheap PCs (under $900) being utter garbage have been true in my case.
At least I am finally more comfortable with using Windows after three plus years of ridiculous back and forth (Not helped by the stressful job that just ended). A lot of it had to do with consistently crap W10 experiences on the job and the overall discomfort I had attempting to switch.
This is a very interesting time for computing. I hope Apple and MS will get off their laurels and debug their OS.
I have too much invested on the Mac platform for me to quit it, though I am not happy with Apple’s increased lockdown.
To be fair, the Intel Evo chip machines I tried had similar issues where they choked up in just trying to remote into my former work PC. We finally have solid internet, but I realize I need a Win10 machine with 16gb of RAM here. So the comments about cheap PCs (under $900) being utter garbage have been true in my case.
At least I am finally more comfortable with using Windows after three plus years of ridiculous back and forth (Not helped by the stressful job that just ended). A lot of it had to do with consistently crap W10 experiences on the job and the overall discomfort I had attempting to switch.
This is a very interesting time for computing. I hope Apple and MS will get off their laurels and debug their OS.
Simply put, choices.
PC can be whatever I want it to be and can be upgraded when I choose.
WSL and virtual machines give me all the environments I need, even macOS if I really wanted.
No real politics with Windows (spotify/Epic) everything is available, choose what you want.
Gaming, of course, PC is just better.
The M1 is good, you have no doubt seen my comments on it. But my comments are in direct relation to my 2018 Mac Mini, the difference is night and day and it is a more capable machine. It is not anywhere close to approaching what my PC can offer and of course the flexibility it provides where Apple is reducing choices.
I applaud Apple for the M1, but it doesn't make a saint out of a sinner.
Actually I don't think I have. I saw your comments on how it performed playing WOW and you were impressed by and large but I think I was unaware with any possible dissatisfaction.
Good point to raise, especially in light of this thread about being tempted to reconsider the Mac Platform now that its on ARM. You're right, with Apple its a closed garden, you have the Apple way or the highway. Many people either don't care, or prefer that and I'm not knocking that. Everyone has to make the best decision for them and one size does not fit all.
I have an old scanner that works well on my PC, I'm sure I can get it to work on my iMac with searching for drivers or what not, but its just plug and play with my Razer. That's one avenue of choice that I personally like
Well I put my money where my mouth is after some interesting dialogue with the managers of my local Apple store I walked away with an M1 MBP. Lot of back and forth regarding running X86 on the M1 with Apple being polite yet firmly a no go, until I illustrated that Crossover under Rosetta 2 can run some X86 apps which is only likely to expand in time.
Same a LeeW I'm not about to U turn and drop the Windows platform, equally these M1 Mac's are simply too promising to simply pass on being such a significant step change in technology. I opted for the base model MBP as right now it's just a test bed to see what's Apple new hardware platform is capable of.
Personally for the entry price I think it's worth the risk. The 256 SSD is irrelevant as I have good deal of external SSD's and the 8Gb of unified memory will be adequate for test purpose. If the M1 delivers and I can get it to do what I need I'll be set to go with a 16" as and when they are updated to Apple's silicon and more pressing business picks or diversifies of which I'm working on now.
When I used Mac's in a professional role they always served me well. The 2016 design, poor quality and direction of OS X simply turned me off. Five years I'm willing to give Apple another look, as I do believe that Apple took onboard the criticism for some of it's poor design decision's.
I did consider the Air (only 512 available), however with no experience of the load I'll be attempting to put on the hardware the active cooling won over the additional storage.
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Same a LeeW I'm not about to U turn and drop the Windows platform, equally these M1 Mac's are simply too promising to simply pass on being such a significant step change in technology. I opted for the base model MBP as right now it's just a test bed to see what's Apple new hardware platform is capable of.
Personally for the entry price I think it's worth the risk. The 256 SSD is irrelevant as I have good deal of external SSD's and the 8Gb of unified memory will be adequate for test purpose. If the M1 delivers and I can get it to do what I need I'll be set to go with a 16" as and when they are updated to Apple's silicon and more pressing business picks or diversifies of which I'm working on now.
When I used Mac's in a professional role they always served me well. The 2016 design, poor quality and direction of OS X simply turned me off. Five years I'm willing to give Apple another look, as I do believe that Apple took onboard the criticism for some of it's poor design decision's.
I did consider the Air (only 512 available), however with no experience of the load I'll be attempting to put on the hardware the active cooling won over the additional storage.
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Which Windows apps are you looking to run? Quicken 2020 works adequately for me on the M1 with Crossover and the Big Sur 11.1 beta (you need the beta to get programs to actually install since it has some Rosetta 2 fixes). It’s quirky but Quicken for Mac still lacks some basic functionality so I’ve stuck with Quicken for Windows.
Just apps specific to engineering. Many said years back that they would never run on an Intel Mac due to the complexity, yet it was doable and I made good use of them. It's very much a chicken & egg syndrome as if you don't purchase an M1 Mac how can you ever find out, especially if the SW is proprietary.
For me it's worth the risk. Worst case I'll just keep it as a secondary system and while Apple has dropped the ball on multiple occasions I do still feel that there's still a benefit to a mixed environment. I was tilting towards Linux and still am to some extents, equally same as the M1 I'd be potentially loosing some features, however the gains would likely be less outside of greater control.
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Views in due course
will be more interested to see your thoughts on it than most others.
Sure NP all in good timeViews in due course
Yet to even turn it on and only just seen it's a silver model LOL. First to admit I've been very critical of Apple and rightly so IMO. That said I've kept an open mind to the future, as if you continue to produce flawed hardware in tandem with flaky software the market will react sooner or later, if the manufacturer doesn't.Frankly there's too much potential to ignore with Apple's new hardware platform for the Mac and while the 13" M1 Pro has limitations it's very much a step forward in the right direction. I've looked at most W10 Arm portables and they are simply too slow and or problematic with the Surface X being as good as it gets.
I've not updated this primary W10 notebook for multiple reasons, COVID being a major, and apart from the dGPU there's little in it's size and weight class that will really offer a major performance increase. I would need to step up to an i9 which is near impossible to cool optimally in a notebook. One machine does spring to mind, being the Asus Zephyrus G14 (AMD 4900HS & RTX).
There still remains concerns regarding privacy and a yet to be seen Big Sur. I certainly wouldn't have jumped into the deep end with a $3K-$4K 16" however for the price of the base 13" M1 Pro I don't see much if any negatives.
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Indeed, that is why I went for the MM, dipping a toe back in but I will find a use for it elsewhere if I pull it back out so nothing lost.