Has Apple Silicon made you reconsider the Mac platform?

[maflynn]

The "Garden Wall" is most certainly getting taller and more confining,

There will be a day when Apple requires that all apps be sold/given away through the MAS

to see what can be achieved on the platform and only time will tell...

No question, especially since its a gen 1 product. What it has going for it is a tried and true design, that is the only difference is the logic board, everything else has been vetted since its been on prior generations. People complained about not getting a new design, and I get it but it simplifies Apple's job immensely

 

[Queen6]

There will be a day when Apple requires that all apps be sold/given away through the MAS

View attachment 1695371


No question, especially since its a gen 1 product. What it has going for it is a tried and true design, that is the only difference is the logic board, everything else has been vetted since its been on prior generations. People complained about not getting a new design, and I get it but it simplifies Apple's job immensely

Undoubtedly Apple's direction as they want to be involved or more the point capitalise on all aspects of the product from purchase to disposal, similar to the idevices

Personally I have no issue with the M1 MBP design. I'd rather it has 4 ports versus 2, equally accept that it's a limitation of the SOC that will likely be resolved in time. The bigger issue is the SW compatibility and that has to be seen in time how things pan out. Right now it's fairly encouraging with too much performance and potential to simply discard.

For the current opt in price the M1's do finally represent good value, however the usage must be carefully thought out and the complications of running multiple levels of emulation. As for me the M1's have certainly piqued the interest, equally a return to 100% Mac is unlikely as the restriction's ever tighten on each release of OS X.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

Personally I have no issue with the M1 MBP design.

For a 13" laptop, the design is great, no question. For me and my usage, I'm not seeing a good fit, but we are only at the very beginning of a new day for Apple's Mac line.

 

[LeeW]

I am still enjoying the M1 Mac Mini, using it now, but it has not pushed me back in too much. I am probably using my PC 80% of the time still. As much as I would be interested in a new MBP once lockdown is over, I have to admit I will be finding it hard to justify unless I really up my macOS time, at the moment that is not anticipated. So even with a long battery life, it would make little sense.

 

[Queen6]

For a 13" laptop, the design is great, no question. For me and my usage, I'm not seeing a good fit, but we are only at the very beginning of a new day for Apple's Mac line.

As I see it the M1 makes for a solid testbed to evaluate Apple's new hardware platform & SW capabilities. If it fails to meet the mark, fine it will make for a very solid ultra portable if for nothing else other than it's impressive battery life.

For a long time I used utilised duel OS systems as I frequently found the benefit far exceeded the cost or learning curve. After a few weeks with the M1 13" MBP think that relationship may just be returning as the M1 is surprisingly capable. It's not so much the sheer performance, it's the lack of thermal throttling that has plagued Mac's of old and PC notebooks.

The SOC can simply keep up even with multiple layers of emulation as temperature is no longer a factor. Right now we're just at the very beginning of the story. What Apple has accomplished is without any doubt ground breaking on multiple levels. The rest is down to AMD, ARM & Intel, just listening to Tool one of the lyrics being "this changes everything" rather apt.

Oh and it will and then some...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

I am still enjoying the M1 Mac Mini, using it now, but it has not pushed me back in too much. I am probably using my PC 80% of the time still. As much as I would be interested in a new MBP once lockdown is over, I have to admit I will be finding it hard to justify unless I really up my macOS time, at the moment that is not anticipated. So even with a long battery life, it would make little sense.

Same, my W10 systems still remain to be primary. The M1 MBP is something to explore; install, reload, reset and go again. With nothing but time on the hands why not?

Q-6

 

[c0ppo]

I've built myself a PC.
Ryzen 5800X, 64GB of very fast RAM, 2+2TB nvme SSD, and a AMD 5700XT (already owned that one, since I've used it in eGPU). Only thing I want is a new AMD GPU, but it's easier to win a lottery than get it. 5700XT will do for now. Installed Pop OS, and with apps stacking, auto tiling, really great keyboard shortcuts... I don't see myself dropping this beast of PC anytime soon.

Since I'm not that mobile anymore due to covid, I've considered selling my X1E and purchasing MBA M1. But I've simply couldn't pull the trigger. I'm way more into Linux now, and it really suits my needs better than MacOS.

But in 2-3 years, I will probably purchase a MBP or something similar. As of this moment, I haven't yet seen M1 mac in person. They are also hard to get.

 

[ctjack]

I've built myself a PC.

That is the way to go. At least for me. Just waiting for stable place to sit in, but for now can't build pc. Mac for portability will be a nice bonus.

 

[LeeW]

I really want to rebuild my PC using a much smaller form Factor such as the NZXT H1 or similar but trying to find a case at the moment is really challenging.

 

[xraydoc]

The M1 MacBook Air as piqued my interest. I don't think I'm ready to go back to the Mac as a desktop/workstation platform, but the weight, size, cool & fanless operation, and battery life of the M1 MBA ticks all the right boxes for me in a laptop.

Thing is, I don't need a laptop all that much. My iPad Pro handles the majority of what I need to do on the go (or on the sofa), though maybe 15% of the time, I need to use a traditional operating system to get the work done. And it'll likely be another year before business travel gets back to normal, so at this point in time I'm never that far from a multi-monitor desktop machine or my Surface Book 2 (which unfortunately only lasts at most 4 hours on battery these days with everything on battery-saver modes).

So I'd be interested in an M1 MBA (versus a Dell XPS 13") but I'm finding it hard to justify the cost when I know I'm going to use my iPad Pro most of the time, will want to upgrade that too when the new models come out, and when business travel or even working at a coffeeshop for a change of venue isn't likely to be a reality for another 6-7-8 months or so.

 

[nickdalzell1]

I'm not interested in any current offerings and I doubt my 2019 MBP is gonna self-destruct the day support ends, any more than my PPC PB G4 laptop didn't self-destruct when they switched to Intel. Older isn't useless. Sometimes, it works better for certain people.

 

[pshufd]

I'm not interested in any current offerings and I doubt my 2019 MBP is gonna self-destruct the day support ends, any more than my PPC PB G4 laptop didn't self-destruct when they switched to Intel. Older isn't useless. Sometimes, it works better for certain people.

I'm still rocking a Late 2009 iMac 27. I have a PowerMac G5 but I haven't used it in at least a year. I don't really have a good use for it outside of as a table for my backpack.

 

[SteveJUAE]

The M1 MacBook Air as piqued my interest. I don't think I'm ready to go back to the Mac as a desktop/workstation platform, but the weight, size, cool & fanless operation, and battery life of the M1 MBA ticks all the right boxes for me in a laptop.

Thing is, I don't need a laptop all that much. My iPad Pro handles the majority of what I need to do on the go (or on the sofa), though maybe 15% of the time, I need to use a traditional operating system to get the work done. And it'll likely be another year before business travel gets back to normal, so at this point in time I'm never that far from a multi-monitor desktop machine or my Surface Book 2 (which unfortunately only lasts at most 4 hours on battery these days with everything on battery-saver modes).

So I'd be interested in an M1 MBA (versus a Dell XPS 13") but I'm finding it hard to justify the cost when I know I'm going to use my iPad Pro most of the time, will want to upgrade that too when the new models come out, and when business travel or even working at a coffeeshop for a change of venue isn't likely to be a reality for another 6-7-8 months or so.

If "weight, size, cool & fanless operation, and battery life of the M1 MBA ticks all the right boxes" and you want LTE all for $400 less then the Samsung Book S beats it, other than performance

 

[The_Interloper]

I caved.

An offer on the new M1 base model MacBook Pro (over £100 off, plus 0% interest over 6 months) made me too curious to resist. I'm typing this on it now.

My initial thoughts after a couple of days of use? It's very impressive - the usual Apple fit and finish is all present and correct, it's extremely snappy and responsive and overall it's just a really good laptop. I can't see many people being disappointed with this. That being said...

The "M1 is the greatest thing evah" fanboyism is a little much. It's certainly very, very good but it kind of represents where Intel should be in 2020 but just aren't. The fact it's ARM does have its teething problems - a couple of Intel Mac programs won't load under Rosetta 2 and x86 VMs are gone. These are genuine disadvantages.

iOS apps are currently a horrible experience. I thought LumaFusion would be a great early example of the advantages of using an iPad app on such powerful laptop hardware but noooo...it's dreadful. The UX just doesn't work (the Windows hybrid approach is a little more impressive in comparison) and is pretty much unusable.

But the silence is golden. The fan never comes on. It's cold as ice. And the battery life just goes on and on and on.

Just as a test I fired up the new AS version of Handbrake to convert a 58 min 1080p video file from MKV to MP4 yesterday, using the H264 VideoToolbox codec. The MBP did it in 8 mins, which I thought was good but not mind-blowing. But it got barely warm, the fan didn't kick in and the OS stayed responsive and fluid (I happily browsed the web in Firefox and sent a couple of emails in Spark at the same time).

On my Surface Book 2 (quad-core i5, 8Gb RAM) the same file in Handbrake Nightly (using H264 QSV) took nearly 17 minutes. It got red-hot to the touch and started throttling after around 90 seconds, never reaching base clock again. Other programs were lagging like crazy - the whole system was choked. Significantly, this was plugged in with Windows at 'Best Performance'. The MBP was on battery - it used 3%.

I have to keep reminding myself this is a base model and the slowest Mac chip Apple will ever release. So, yes, it's a great start. What I wonder though is...where does this leave the 12.9" iPad Pro? Why would anyone spend the same or more on a tablet and Magic Keyboard that can only run mobile apps? If you aren't a big user of the Pencil, it's in a trickier spot now (and the base model iPad can easily fill that role anyway).

 

[KPOM]

I caved.

An offer on the new M1 base model MacBook Pro (over £100 off, plus 0% interest over 6 months) made me too curious to resist. I'm typing this on it now.

My initial thoughts after a couple of days of use? It's very impressive - the usual Apple fit and finish is all present and correct, it's extremely snappy and responsive and overall it's just a really good laptop. I can't see many people being disappointed with this. That being said...

The "M1 is the greatest thing evah" fanboyism is a little much. It's certainly very, very good but it kind of represents where Intel should be in 2020 but just aren't. The fact it's ARM does have its teething problems - a couple of Intel Mac programs won't load under Rosetta 2 and x86 VMs are gone. These are genuine disadvantages.

iOS apps are currently a horrible experience. I thought LumaFusion would be a great early example of the advantages of using an iPad app on such powerful laptop hardware but noooo...it's dreadful. The UX just doesn't work (the Windows hybrid approach is a little more impressive in comparison) and is pretty much unusable.

But the silence is golden. The fan never comes on. It's cold as ice. And the battery life just goes on and on and on.

Just as a test I fired up the new AS version of Handbrake to convert a 58 min 1080p video file from MKV to MP4 yesterday, using the H264 VideoToolbox codec. The MBP did it in 8 mins, which I thought was good but not mind-blowing. But it got barely warm, the fan didn't kick in and the OS stayed responsive and fluid (I happily browsed the web in Firefox and sent a couple of emails in Spark at the same time).

On my Surface Book 2 (quad-core i5, 8Gb RAM) the same file in Handbrake Nightly (using H264 QSV) took nearly 17 minutes. It got red-hot to the touch and started throttling after around 90 seconds, never reaching base clock again. Other programs were lagging like crazy - the whole system was choked. Significantly, this was plugged in with Windows at 'Best Performance'. The MBP was on battery - it used 3%.

I have to keep reminding myself this is a base model and the slowest Mac chip Apple will ever release. So, yes, it's a great start. What I wonder though is...where does this leave the 12.9" iPad Pro? Why would anyone spend the same or more on a tablet and Magic Keyboard that can only run mobile apps? If you aren't a big user of the Pencil, it's in a trickier spot now (and the base model iPad can easily fill that role anyway).

Nice post. As for the iPad, I think that’s the main reason Apple will not, at least for now, add a touch screen to the Mac. If they did, then the MacBook Air would almost render the 12.9” iPad Pro irrelevant. iOS apps on the Mac is mostly a gimmick for now.

 

[pshufd]

Nice post. As for the iPad, I think that’s the main reason Apple will not, at least for now, add a touch screen to the Mac. If they did, then the MacBook Air would almost render the 12.9” iPad Pro irrelevant. iOS apps on the Mac is mostly a gimmick for now.

There are places where you don't want an attached keyboard. Kiosks, ordering tablets, etc.

Personally, though, I'd use a MBP/AS for the 20 hours of battery life. The iPad at 10 is really great but I'd definitely grab something that does 20 first.

 

[KPOM]

There are places where you don't want an attached keyboard. Kiosks, ordering tablets,

But for those use cases the $329 base iPad is sufficient, perhaps the $399 iPad mini if space is at a premium.

 

[pshufd]

But for those use cases the $329 base iPad is sufficient, perhaps the $399 iPad mini if space is at a premium.

I've never had an iPad Pro but I know people who love them. One guy uses them to trade during staff meetings so that he can hide the screen quickly if someone else is curious.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I caved.

An offer on the new M1 base model MacBook Pro (over £100 off, plus 0% interest over 6 months) made me too curious to resist. I'm typing this on it now.

My initial thoughts after a couple of days of use? It's very impressive - the usual Apple fit and finish is all present and correct, it's extremely snappy and responsive and overall it's just a really good laptop. I can't see many people being disappointed with this. That being said...

The "M1 is the greatest thing evah" fanboyism is a little much. It's certainly very, very good but it kind of represents where Intel should be in 2020 but just aren't. The fact it's ARM does have its teething problems - a couple of Intel Mac programs won't load under Rosetta 2 and x86 VMs are gone. These are genuine disadvantages.

iOS apps are currently a horrible experience. I thought LumaFusion would be a great early example of the advantages of using an iPad app on such powerful laptop hardware but noooo...it's dreadful. The UX just doesn't work (the Windows hybrid approach is a little more impressive in comparison) and is pretty much unusable.

But the silence is golden. The fan never comes on. It's cold as ice. And the battery life just goes on and on and on.

Just as a test I fired up the new AS version of Handbrake to convert a 58 min 1080p video file from MKV to MP4 yesterday, using the H264 VideoToolbox codec. The MBP did it in 8 mins, which I thought was good but not mind-blowing. But it got barely warm, the fan didn't kick in and the OS stayed responsive and fluid (I happily browsed the web in Firefox and sent a couple of emails in Spark at the same time).

On my Surface Book 2 (quad-core i5, 8Gb RAM) the same file in Handbrake Nightly (using H264 QSV) took nearly 17 minutes. It got red-hot to the touch and started throttling after around 90 seconds, never reaching base clock again. Other programs were lagging like crazy - the whole system was choked. Significantly, this was plugged in with Windows at 'Best Performance'. The MBP was on battery - it used 3%.

I have to keep reminding myself this is a base model and the slowest Mac chip Apple will ever release. So, yes, it's a great start. What I wonder though is...where does this leave the 12.9" iPad Pro? Why would anyone spend the same or more on a tablet and Magic Keyboard that can only run mobile apps? If you aren't a big user of the Pencil, it's in a trickier spot now (and the base model iPad can easily fill that role anyway).

I'm not dissing your posting which was welcomed

However

I cannot help but see this is 1 step forwards and 3 steps back. Sure this is delivering great performance and endurance but its actually doing a lot less albeit faster for longer

As you have found it's missing touch, external interface, high GPU and even LTE let alone only comes as a clamshell

Seems we have only 25% of the future and a more niche than ever, how is this a premium device other than for a very narrow band of users

 

[pshufd]

I'm not dissing your posting which was welcomed

However

I cannot help but see this is 1 step forwards and 3 steps back. Sure this is delivering great performance and endurance but its actually doing a lot less albeit faster for longer

As you have found it's missing touch, external interface, high GPU and even LTE let alone only comes as a clamshell

Seems we have only 25% of the future and a more niche than ever, how is this a premium device other than for a very narrow band of users

It provides incredible CPU performance for people buying low-end computers. It leaves the rest of us wanting for more.

 

[SteveJUAE]

It provides incredible CPU performance for people buying low-end computers. It leaves the rest of us wanting for more.

I agree with your comment low end computers but lets not confuse this with price, which Apple is not low end

So what do you think the average user is going to do with this raw power, typing faster or sending emails faster LOL most people especially with dailies do not stress any system. The endurance is very welcome for sure.

Take away these stereotypic case of rendering examples that are niche along with those that do compiling/VM's, most are not producing or manipulating data etc that need sustained raw CPU unless you consider your household bills in Excel is personally stressful lol

The average user is only pushing their system hard because of bad habits of not controlling running apps or GPU intensive apps.

With cheap low end computers also comes poor performing SSD's and memory this is what most notice not raw power of their CPU, then throw in gaming and your on a slippery slope

The M1 on it's own fixes very little for most other than endurance, it's its coupling with other premium parts no different to any other premium laptop is what counts and given its missing several key elements to give it more broader appeal it's probably Apples most stinted device to date for all it's raw CPU.

No doubt Gen 2 or 3 or 4 will hopefully fix this to some extent but while Apple holds on to Ipads etc I doubt you will get it all.

 

[rui no onna]

But the silence is golden. The fan never comes on. It's cold as ice. And the battery life just goes on and on and on.

This is exactly why I bought the fanless M1 MBA. I can actually use it in bed for work (self isolating) and still get dual monitors with sidecar.

I've got a ThinkPad X390 but I pretty much only use that plugged in on a desk. I have to say the MacBook Air feels pretty pointy though and the ThinkPad's keyboard is still nicer.

 

[pshufd]

I agree with your comment low end computers but lets not confuse this with price, which Apple is not low end

So what do you think the average user is going to do with this raw power, typing faster or sending emails faster LOL most people especially with dailies do not stress any system. The endurance is very welcome for sure.

Take away these stereotypic case of rendering examples that are niche along with those that do compiling/VM's, most are not producing or manipulating data etc that need sustained raw CPU unless you consider your household bills in Excel is personally stressful lol

The average user is only pushing their system hard because of bad habits of not controlling running apps or GPU intensive apps.

With cheap low end computers also comes poor performing SSD's and memory this is what most notice not raw power of their CPU, then throw in gaming and your on a slippery slope

The M1 on it's own fixes very little for most other than endurance, it's its coupling with other premium parts no different to any other premium laptop is what counts and given its missing several key elements to give it more broader appeal it's probably Apples most stinted device to date for all it's raw CPU.

No doubt Gen 2 or 3 or 4 will hopefully fix this to some extent but while Apple holds on to Ipads etc I doubt you will get it all.

I quite enjoy better responsiveness. It's not needed but it is desirable.

One of the systems I use is a Core 2 Duo iMac because it has a great screen and great speakers. It is actually slow doing a lot of things but it is fine for watching videos. It's akin to people buying cars that have great acceleration and ability to drive fast at illegal speeds. You like having the potential to do more.

 

[Queen6]

I'm not dissing your posting which was welcomed

However

I cannot help but see this is 1 step forwards and 3 steps back. Sure this is delivering great performance and endurance but its actually doing a lot less albeit faster for longer

As you have found it's missing touch, external interface, high GPU and even LTE let alone only comes as a clamshell

Seems we have only 25% of the future and a more niche than ever, how is this a premium device other than for a very narrow band of users

Yes and no. The current range of native SW is limited, yet is growing fast. Emulation is another factor which is also rapidly accelerating. W10 can now be run on the M1 Mac's albeit the ARM insider release, and it beats out the Surface X by a good margin. When running SW in emulation you simply don't feel the additional layer.

Physically yes your constrained to a clamshell (MBP/Air) without Touch & Pen support, with the bigger limitation for many Pro users being the two port & external display limitations. That all said make no bones about it the both the performance & efficiency is tremendously impressive given the 2020 M1's are 1st Gen entry level models.

As for the price point, you wont see a W10 notebook remotely close to this level of performance and build quality. It's literally hex/octa core performance in a 13" format. For a an initial release of a new HW platform you'll be very surprised indeed. PC industry will need to wake up fast as the performance/efficiency gap is huge plain and simple, it will only grow ever more as more Dev's get onboard and Apple releases 16" MBP, iMac and Mac Pro. Back to the SW there's far too much on the table here for SW houses to ignore.

I guarantee that Intel, AMD and Microsoft are all scrambling as what Apple has accomplished with the M1 will shake up the industry and set the road map for a good long while...

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

Yes and no. The current range of native SW is limited, yet is growing fast. Emulation is another factor which is also rapidly accelerating. W10 can now be run on the M1 Mac's albeit the ARM insider release, and it beats out the Surface X by a good margin. When running SW in emulation you simply don't feel the additional layer.

Physically yes your constrained to a clamshell (MBP/Air) without Touch & Pen support, with the bigger limitation for many Pro users being the two port & external display limitations. That all said make no bones about it the both the performance & efficiency is tremendously impressive given the 2020 M1's are 1st Gen entry level models.

As for the price point, you wont see a W10 notebook remotely close to this level of performance and build quality. It's literally hex/octa core performance in a 13" format. For a an initial release of a new HW platform you'll be very surprised indeed. PC industry will need to wake up fast as the performance/efficiency gap is huge plain and simple, it will only grow ever more as more Dev's get onboard and Apple releases 16" MBP, iMac and Mac Pro. Back to the SW there's far too much on the table here for SW houses to ignore.

I guarantee that Intel, AMD and Microsoft are all scrambling as what Apple has accomplished with the M1 will shake up the industry and set the road map for a good long while...

Q-6

I liken it to what the iPhone did to Nokia.