Health, Good Practises, and Exercise

[PinkyMacGodess]

I was listening to a podcast from a retired power lifter the other day, and he said something really interesting. From a male perspective, he said you either are comfortable very being very lean with a smaller waist size or you’d rather be bulk having a muscular build. There’s no real in between was his mindset.

That got me thinking, I’ve Always had a stocky, muscular build. I could stop lifting weights for an entire year and I would still probably hold a fairly large amount of muscle just giving my diet and based on my genetic traits. I wouldn’t want it any other way.

I guess my point is, When it comes to physical fitness, you’re either attempting to keep your waist line down to keep yourself ‘thin’ based on diet/other health considerations or you’re trying to put muscle/bulk on for a comp. or in general. I prefer the pack on muscle with a prima-bulk diet.

And physiologists, etc, say that there is an innate 'condition' the body seems set for. It doesn't mean you have to stay at that point, but that to get off that point takes regular effort, maintenance if you will. That is probably where plateaus come in. Some don't believe in plateaus, but I've experienced them. You CAN retrain your body, but most of that is the mind, and to break that innate morphology will take time, and effort. Physical, mental, and dietary.

 

[Gutwrench]

And physiologists, etc, say that there is an innate 'condition' the body seems set for. It doesn't mean you have to stay at that point, but that to get off that point takes regular effort, maintenance if you will.

Yep. It took a lot of scotch and hors d’oeuvres but I’ve retrained my body.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Hello there

I’m also trying to lose a little bit of weight and would like some advice. I started 1st of January at 100 kg and I wanted to lose 3 kg per month. I almost did it but now I’m flat.

I’m 178 cm and according to BMI Index I should be 79 kg.

I use my Apple Watch and it really motivates me. It’s also something I’m very obsessed. I don’t do high intensive stuff, just walking 2 hours a day. I don’t like running but I want to try this month.

I’m not traveling so no more food in the plane or restaurant. I limited fast food & sodas & alcohol but from time to time I go to the restaurant. I weight myself every.single.day so that might be an obsession. But once a week someone says “wow you lost a lot of weight”, last time it was the neighbour.

I have the following questions:

1. Am I losing weight properly? Shall I do more or less?
2. Now that I’m flat, any recommendations?
3. Is 79 kg a reachable objective?

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View attachment 949302

The BMI charts are crap. Why? I'm 5'11". For my height, I should be 'x', but I'm also 'big boned' compared to an average 5'11" person. I could never get to the weight the BMI charts tell me I should be at without looking like I had stage 4 cancer, or was being tortured and locked up with only bread and water. I'd look like a concentration camp prisoner. So take those charts with a grain of something other than salt or sugar. They are generalities, and if you are at that 'perfect person' size and shape, you will fit their recommendation. For me, my doc and trainer both laughed at the BMI weight recommendation. I'd have to have almost no muscle mass at all to meet that, and that's just stupid, not to mention dangerous.

The best thing I can recommend, if you are really invested in this, is to get checked for your 'real fat ratio', sitting in the tank of water. Then they can see where you are now, and hopefully come up with a more realistic goal. The old Garfield joke about being under-tall fits so many when looking at the BMI charts because they are so so off for so many people. Over the years, according to what I've read, humans have gotten taller. It throws off the charts.

But back to it, lean muscle is important. Along with keeping weight off joints, it can help with mental health too.

 

[LizKat]

And physiologists, etc, say that there is an innate 'condition' the body seems set for. It doesn't mean you have to stay at that point, but that to get off that point takes regular effort, maintenance if you will. That is probably where plateaus come in. Some don't believe in plateaus, but I've experienced them. You CAN retrain your body, but most of that is the mind, and to break that innate morphology will take time, and effort. Physical, mental, and dietary.

I've retrained my body to pretend I left something upstairs and go get it, two or three times a day. That way I usually manage to get in six or seven trips counting the times I actually spaced out what I went up there for.

Usually manage to lose about four pounds every summer doing that. Put it back on during winter when my mind kicks in with objections about how damn cold it is in the unheated upstairs rooms, so my memory improves about a thousand percent in that season. Sigh. Body or mind, I seem unable to have both in good shape at once. Love spring and fall when I'm in equilibrium and also in denial about what's upcoming.

 

[pshufd]

I've retrained my body to pretend I left something upstairs and go get it, two or three times a day. That way I usually manage to get in six or seven trips counting the times I actually spaced out what I went up there for.

Usually manage to lose about four pounds every summer doing that. Put it back on during winter when my mind kicks in with objections about how damn cold it is in the unheated upstairs rooms, so my memory improves about a thousand percent in that season. Sigh. Body or mind, I seem unable to have both in good shape at once. Love spring and fall when I'm in equilibrium and also in denial about what's upcoming.

You can use technology to nag you about stairs, steps and hydration too.

 

[D.T.]

So take those charts with a grain of something other than salt or sugar.

Genius.


Agree on the BMI charts too, the ranges get a little too extreme, lots of things aren't factored in, maybe as very general information, but not as specific guidance.

 

[LizKat]

You can use technology to nag you about stairs, steps and hydration too.

Heh I just have my laptops announce the hour.... and if I happen to be in one of those rooms when it pipes up, then I know it must be time to do something involving diet or exercise, if I'm actually sitting down.

Hydration not an issue (so far) since for decades I've kept a water bottle at hand and refill it a couple times a day. Even use water as an alarm clock of sorts at night sometimes, if I've been so busy or stupid enough to cook something late in the evening that needs cooling prior to refrigeration and I don't feel like staying up past my desired bedtime: I just pile in some extra water at bedtime, and then have to come down to pee.. and by then whatever it is will have come off the too-hot-to-chill temperature and I can put it away in the fridge. Used to set an actual alarm clock for such things but having to pee works much better... there's no snooze option.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I've retrained my body to pretend I left something upstairs and go get it, two or three times a day. That way I usually manage to get in six or seven trips counting the times I actually spaced out what I went up there for.

Usually manage to lose about four pounds every summer doing that. Put it back on during winter when my mind kicks in with objections about how damn cold it is in the unheated upstairs rooms, so my memory improves about a thousand percent in that season. Sigh. Body or mind, I seem unable to have both in good shape at once. Love spring and fall when I'm in equilibrium and also in denial about what's upcoming.

And when I'm bored, which happens a lot more lately, I stretch, or walk in place, or do Yoga, or *something*. I used to love to go to the grocery, or the mall. I was 'mall walking', but I wasn't 70. It was actually fun, to 'shop therapy', and get exercise in too. 'Move it or lose it', or as a trainer I knew said 'Keep moving the meat'.?

 

[Huntn]

If you have a sweet tooth problem, I have found a life saver, when I start roaming the kitchen because a cookie is calling me:

15 calories, satisfies the urge.
​

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

If you have a sweet tooth problem, I have found a life saver, when I start roaming the kitchen because a cookie is calling me:

View attachment 951038
15 calories, satisfies the urge.
​

Oh, I've found if I stick a couple tic-tacs in my cheeks, it helps for two things. Sweetness, and makes me salivate, which during an indoor trainer ride isn't a bad thing. I'm just amazed at how quickly they sometimes disappear. Plus it makes me breath smell somewhat better. Hope it hides the sweat smell.

 

[44267547]

Nah, I don’t need candy as a ‘by-pass’ to overcome your craving for something sweet. Try sheer will power, it works for those who can self manage. I know that’s cocky to say that, but that’s just my take on it.

 

[Huntn]

Nah, I don’t need candy as a ‘by-pass’ to overcome your craving for something sweet. Try sheer will power, it works for those who can self manage. I know that’s cocky to say that, but that’s just my take on it.

I don’t like sheer will power, and will take 15 over 200 calories any time.

 

[44267547]

I don’t like sheer will power, and will take 15 over 200 calories any time.

Fair enough. Actually, what I do to curb my cravings for sugar, (which I am human by the way😁), is I like coffee. I find out that just drinking coffee without all the additives, actually takes care of that. I’ve use my Keurig now every day for the last six months. Perfect little machine Mixing & matching various blends.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I don’t like sheer will power, and will take 15 over 200 calories any time.

Actually one of the biggest problems I see is the 'energy supplement' industry. I see so many people, and even my wife, getting into the 'you need our magic juice/powder/bars to survive!'

I've watched people do a 45 minute spin class and ruin any good they did by chugging a 'Muscle Milk', or snarfing a gigantic 'Builders' bar. And so many people follow the directions on those massive jugs of protein powder. YIKES!!! ALl of that stuff has a huge 'craptastic' potential. Protein powder is used for 'putting on weight'. WEIGHT! If you are trying to lose weight, why take something that is made for putting it on? I use protein powders for recovery, but at a slight fraction of the concentrations they recommend on the label. I swear some of that crap is being marketed by aliens trying to fatten up humans for slaughter. And so much of that stuff overloads the liver and kidneys. SO much is soy based, and shouldn't be consumed in mass quantities by men.

So taking what you're saying to the level I've seen 'in the wild'. Oh, and people using 'hydration' and 'electrolyte' drinks and powders too. I do, but on long rides, over 2 hours, and on highly competitive rides. Most of those 'hydration' mixes are just sugar and sugars. People have forced themselves into diabetes because of over ingestion of sugars.

To see someone snarfing Gatorade, etc, choking down 'blocks', and sucking gel packs dry, and pounding down Clif Bars and other crap is disheartening. One step forward, ten steps back... If you are exercising for less than an hour, supplements aren't needed. Eat a banana afterwards. Food is fuel, don't over fuel. Replace what you use with what your body needs. Use straight water. *shrug*

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Nah, I don’t need candy as a ‘by-pass’ to overcome your craving for something sweet. Try sheer will power, it works for those who can self manage. I know that’s cocky to say that, but that’s just my take on it.

Sugars are like heroin to the brain. It's hard to get off the sugar wagon. And it's insidious. Foreigners are almsot always blown away with how much sugar is in the 'American diet'. I remember someone saying 'Sugar in peanut butter? Why?'.

 

[Huntn]

Actually one of the biggest problems I see is the 'energy supplement' industry. I see so many people, and even my wife, getting into the 'you need our magic juice/powder/bars to survive!'

I've watched people do a 45 minute spin class and ruin any good they did by chugging a 'Muscle Milk', or snarfing a gigantic 'Builders' bar. And so many people follow the directions on those massive jugs of protein powder. YIKES!!! ALl of that stuff has a huge 'craptastic' potential. Protein powder is used for 'putting on weight'. WEIGHT! If you are trying to lose weight, why take something that is made for putting it on? I use protein powders for recovery, but at a slight fraction of the concentrations they recommend on the label. I swear some of that crap is being marketed by aliens trying to fatten up humans for slaughter. And so much of that stuff overloads the liver and kidneys. SO much is soy based, and shouldn't be consumed in mass quantities by men.

So taking what you're saying to the level I've seen 'in the wild'. Oh, and people using 'hydration' and 'electrolyte' drinks and powders too. I do, but on long rides, over 2 hours, and on highly competitive rides. Most of those 'hydration' mixes are just sugar and sugars. People have forced themselves into diabetes because of over ingestion of sugars.

To see someone snarfing Gatorade, etc, choking down 'blocks', and sucking gel packs dry, and pounding down Clif Bars and other crap is disheartening. One step forward, ten steps back... If you are exercising for less than an hour, supplements aren't needed. Eat a banana afterwards. Food is fuel, don't over fuel. Replace what you use with what your body needs. Use straight water. *shrug*

It depends. I’ve been skipping breakfast, workout, then for lunch drink a 190 calorie protein shake. I think I am coming out ahead, then later eat a meal for dinner and a sweet dessert. But with a piece of pie one day, the next day, I might eat a bowl of blue berries. If I snack during the day, I’d choose carrots or a pickle.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

It depends. I’ve been skipping breakfast, workout, then for lunch drink a 190 calorie protein shake. I think I am coming out ahead, then later eat a meal for dinner and a sweet dessert. But with a piece of pie one day, the next day, I might eat a bowl of blue berries. If I snack during the day, I’d choose carrots or a pickle.

See, and I was almost the exact opposite. I (try) to eat more protein in the morning, and then eat less at dinner. I figure that everything I eat for dinner/supper/etc is just going to sit there, all night, especially if it's 'not helpful'. But, back when I had good knees, I was perhaps exercising harder than you. I was experiencing near bonking symptoms on a nearly daily basis. Loading my morning helped avoid that horrible feeling and made me feel I HAD to burn it off. Using lean mixtures of 'electrolyte' powders helped too, during my abuse sessions. How I wish I had those knees back. Biking just doesn't cut it, it was so much easier to burn off fat and maintain then. But it sounds like you have some good ideas. When I substituted yogurt for ice cream, and made that desert, and added bran buds to it, I felt fuller, and it was decadent enough to make my brain think it got 'something'. *shrug*

That crazy brain... The urges... The splurges...

So bizarre that when I don't get enough sleep, the fridge becomes a war zone, self-control almost gone. Fighting that urge to splurge on calories. Having a wife that thinks because I ride like a maniac I have all that potential to burn off her cooking. DOH!

 

[Huntn]

See, and I was almost the exact opposite. I (try) to eat more protein in the morning, and then eat less at dinner. I figure that everything I eat for dinner/supper/etc is just going to sit there, all night, especially if it's 'not helpful'. But, back when I had good knees, I was perhaps exercising harder than you. I was experiencing near bonking symptoms on a nearly daily basis. Loading my morning helped avoid that horrible feeling and made me feel I HAD to burn it off. Using lean mixtures of 'electrolyte' powders helped too, during my abuse sessions. How I wish I had those knees back. Biking just doesn't cut it, it was so much easier to burn off fat and maintain then. But it sounds like you have some good ideas. When I substituted yogurt for ice cream, and made that desert, and added bran buds to it, I felt fuller, and it was decadent enough to make my brain think it got 'something'. *shrug*

That crazy brain... The urges... The splurges...

So bizarre that when I don't get enough sleep, the fridge becomes a war zone, self-control almost gone. Fighting that urge to splurge on calories. Having a wife that thinks because I ride like a maniac I have all that potential to burn off her cooking. DOH!

I agree that the less you eat for dinner and after, the better. Most of the time I eat a meal, it is to conform to my wife’s desires, but lately instead of a tradional meal at dinner, I’d be happy with a sandwich. We do have salads now and then.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I agree that the less you eat for dinner and after, the better. Most of the time I eat a meal, it is to conform to my wife’s desires, but lately instead of a tradional meal at dinner, I’d be happy with a sandwich. We do have salads now and then.

HAH! That's another thing that shocked people. "So, you gave up bread, right? Giving up bread is the ONLY way to lose weight, right?" HAH, no, never gave up bread entirely. Bread is a calorie delivery vehicle. It's not the bread that will kill you, it's what you put on it that will. (Assuming the bread isn't laced with High Fructose Corn Syrup, and overly processed crap)

Salads are great, but one of the highest calorie meals you can get that will cause your arteries to clog while you are eating it, was a 'salad' at the Cheesecake Factory, as I remember. Hidden Valley came out with 'Ranch Italian', and DAMN that stuff was A-MAZING! It tasted so good! But it had more fat than (I exaggerate here, can't remember the shocking amounts) a dozen Big Macs, more sugar than a case of Coke, and more salt than a salt block for livestock. NASTY POISON! But people thought it was 'good for you'. I don't know if they dropped it actually.

There are more than enough ways to poison ourselves. The wife grilled some brats for Labor Day. I referred to them as 'nitrate-cicles'. She was offended and asked if I always had such a negative opinion of other food items. 'Yeah, I guess I do, but my biggest weakness is a good salami. I'm complicated.'?

 

[44267547]

**No PRSI**

If we start seeing a decline of C/19 in my region, I really would like to get back to the gym. I think my ‘home gym’ is really nice to have where others we not have that luxury. But in terms of being a weightlifter, there’s just some things a home gym cannot replace an actual gym has available With let pull downs/seated rows, just in general back-workouts.

Actually, what my game plan is, there is another gym in my area 24 hours, and it’s definitely a lot smaller than the other gym that I was attending, but they hardly have any traffic during the late night hours and is usually even empty, but the membership fee is quite higher at this other gym, which I think I might actually consider given the lack there of attendance from other go-ers. I can’t tell you how much I miss the bodybuilding scene and I would like to get back to doing what I was so committed to for over 18 months, but Patience is a virtue here Make a tactical move when the time is right. Safety first!

 

[jdechko]

So bizarre that when I don't get enough sleep, the fridge becomes a war zone, self-control almost gone. Fighting that urge to splurge on calories. Having a wife that thinks because I ride like a maniac I have all that potential to burn off her cooking. DOH!

I think this is my problem. Between unemployment during the first few months of the year and COVID for the past 6 months, my sleep schedule is way out of whack. I know I’m eating really crappy at breakfast just to get some sort of energy and it really messes up the rest of the day.

And because of low/ no energy, I snack a lot and don’t feel like cooking a healthy dinner and the cycle continues.

 

[44267547]

For breakfast, I would start with-

-Oatmeal and egg whites-

Fast digestion, gives you the necessary energy without feeling lethargic and added protein. This is actually one of the ways I would start off my day for bodybuilding fuel. Actually, I wouldn’t even ‘cook’ oatmeal, just raw mixed with milk, that way doesn’t give you that too full feeling.

 

[44267547]

I really like this electrolyte powder. Not only does it give you the necessary electrolytes, but has no artificials, food coloring or Maltodextrin. I personally use just for muscle recovery after A strenuous workout, but I never use it for my off-days.

It’s Kinda pricey at $30, but a little bit goes a long way. Available on Amazon FYI.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

For breakfast, I would start with-

-Oatmeal and egg whites-

Fast digestion, gives you the necessary energy without feeling lethargic and added protein. This is actually one of the ways I would start off my day for bodybuilding fuel. Actually, I wouldn’t even ‘cook’ oatmeal, just raw mixed with milk, that way doesn’t give you that too full feeling.

I gave up eggs. It worked for me. No egg whites, no eggs. But to me, if you are going to eat eggs, why skip the other parts. I just couldn't get behind that. *shrug*

 

[compwiz1202]

Losing weight has to be a balance. If you are overweight, you have to over do the exercise, and under do the eating. Once you start getting results, you have to adjust the ratio.

My story was I was over weight. I was almost 270. Yikes. I didn't have a double chin, I had a triple chin! The bottom of my rib cage was popping out at a 45 degree angle! I couldn't run up two flights of stairs without feeling like I was going to pass out. I had no excuse. I had a BoxFlex, I had a Stairmaster, I had two bikes.

My problem was I had a company where I was on the road a lot. I LOVED Reeses Sticks. I bought three or more packs each time I ever went to a gas station. I got POINTS! Points for more Reeses Sticks! Then they came out with the larger bigger packages! MORE FOR THE SAME AMOUNT! SCORE!!!

I'd eat 4 or 5 packs, A DAY!

The BowFlex was great for storing stuff on. Another horizontal surface. The StairMaster was perfect for drying clothes on. My bike on a bike trainer was also. Perfect racks...

So, after literally almost passing out running up the stairs chasing my dog, and IT turned around with a concerned look, as I stood gasping for breath.

I started on the StairMaster. I threw in a DVD, and set it to level 10, out of 15 (I started enthusiastic). I almost died. I started at 2. I was able to do 2 minutes. I'm not kidding. I felt like I was going to die. I unburied the BowFlex, and started figuring out where I needed to start on that. 5 pounds. I could do 10 reps, one set of 5 pounds.

Throughout months, I got to the point I could do 90 minutes at level 14 on the StairMaster, and was 'full stack' on the BowFlex. 300 pounds, as the rods were labeled, which is sketchy as hell. Then I cleaned the junk off the treadmill we had for 5 years. I started running 5 minutes, and worked myself up. I got to the point I was running, not jogging, outright RUNNING for between an hour, and an hour and a half every night, with Saturday off.

I also quit the junk food. No more Resses Sticks, no more diet Pepsi, no more M&M's. I stopped drinking all alcohol for Lent, and then two weeks after to make sure I could. I ate less, not eating everything in front of me, and sent portions of restaurant meals that I didn't eat. I didn't need to eat it.

At my leanest, I had a BMI of 6. I weighed just under 160. I LOOKED amazing. Everyone commented on how I looked. Family were blown away. I FELT great! I was great. Then I blew a neuroma in my foot. Running was excruciating. I could run through the pain until the endorphines kicked in, and I felt no pain. It got so bad, it started hurting outside of running. Climbing stairs was excruciating. I finally went to a podiatrist. He said I had the largest neuroma he had ever seen. I could barely walk. ALL of my hard work went out of the window. I was depressed, and was looking at never being able to run again. Post surgery, I had a three month recovery, and then developed a knee problem because I was favoring the bad foot, and the other leg's knee gave up. I had a scope, and was out another 3 months.

So, now, I've had my medical issues. I'v;e seen the monster, and survived. I've experienced bonking HARD. I was eating fiber like a cow! I was downing protein powder to compensate for the nutrition I was missing. But I 'converted'. My body was burning fat like a MF! My sugar intake was minimal. My fat intake was up. I loved fish, I had olive oil with most that I ate. I consumed fiber like crazy. Coupled with the exercise I was doing, I muscled over the ;sugar monster' and converted my body to burn fat and lost it like it was falling off. I had energy like a hyperactive 3-year old. I could go all day, and all night if needed, but when I hit the bed, I was out. I LOVED that feeling.

So, what worked for me? Cut the junk. Eliminate the booze. Eat salads, fish, and tons of fiber. Exercize to exhaustion. Work out every day you can in the beginning. I started working out like a crazed lab rat, but I had a huge deep hole to dig out of. After I got out of it, I was able to take a day off each week, and actually take a week off for vacation a couple of times a year, and NOT blow it all. I could 'cheat' a little, but in moderation. I got to the point I could eat a small bowl of ice cream. I could eat pizza, I still had a beer or two a week. AFTER I did the base work to get there.

Was it hard? HELL YES! I worked out, like I said, like a crazed lab rat. I did that for months. Once I got past the sugar fix, I was in a whole different world. My body was a machine. Food was fuel. Fat was fuel. Sugar was poison in high levels.

Post neuroma and knee surgery?

It all fell down. Staying at that level is hard. If you are young, you can 'convert' sooner, and *should* be able to stay there. I was NOT on a 'keto diet'. Be very careful of the 'keto diet' scam. There are pills you can take to get to ketosis. Diabetics that go into ketosis can have long standing issues for slipping into ketosis. It's not what the body is designed to do. Ketosis is the body burning MUSCLE! Muscle is NOT fat. If you go into ketosis hard enough, long enough, it changes your blood Ph, and can cause a whole host of problems, including strokes and heart attacks, among others.


Adjust intake. "Food is fuel" Do NOT over fuel your car, don;t over fuel yourself.

Sugar is poison, and you will find it almost everywhere. Avoid High Fructose Corn Syrup. It's sugar on steroids.

Exercise equipment is NOT for hanging clothes on. It's for hanging sweat drenched towels on.

Exercise is what we are supposed to do. It's an archetypal need. 'Fight or flight' IS how we lived centuries ago. Fat humans were easy prey for wild animals and other threats.

Fiber is GREAT! It keeps you regular, keeps your digestive system clean, and it just makes life so much easier.

Don't buy into junk people believe. I never gave up bread. I actually quit all red meat, but did not go vegan, or even full vegitarian. I ate salads. I put some cheese on them and used oil and vinegar, or Paul Newman's dressing.

DON'T kick yourself for cheating. In moderation. Realize that if you cheat, you put something on the table. You have to work out a little more to get it off the table. It's not a bonus, it's a negative, but it's all good. Earn that cheating.

I gave up eggs too. I hated the incredibly smelly gas. OMG!!!

But if you look at everything that goes in your mouth as fuel, you will do yourself so much good. That beer, it's fuel. That 'energy bar' (which is a glorified candy bar) needs to be worked off.

CROSS TRAIN!!! DO not just run. I spent too much time just running. I added the BoxFlex, and thought that was enough. It wasn't. I needed to add biking earlier, and swimming too.


Currently? I have reoccuring issues from my knee surgery. I ride a bike on a trainer, shooting for 7,500 miles this year. My weight is around 195. My BMI is up. Funny that I found running far more slimming than riding. Strange, huh.

I want to convert again, but am getting to old to pull it off I fear. It was hard work, but SO MUCH WORTH IT!!!

You can do this, without supplements, and pills and potions. Don't fall into that whole mess. Some of that crap is really toxic. The entire market for that crap is not regulated at all! No one makes sure the stuff they say is in it, is, and nothing harmful.

Good luck! You are worth it! IF you can convert your body, you will feel INCREDIBLE!!! (Oh, I kept that going for over 2 years. That was a hell of a lot of punishment on that foot. I ran for over a year with foot pain (STUPID!!!) until it got way way too bad. If something hurts, STOP! Get it looked at. Ask for therapy, physical therapy. Ask for a place with a sports trainer, or an outfit that works with sport injuries!) It was bad enough, the surgeon said I would be lucky to be able to run again, or even walk. I spent those two months recovering in a wheel chair just trying to insure I would have a good recovery. I recovered very well, but the knee gave it after that. I learned from my mistake. I try to cross train as much as I can now. I can't run because of the knee, but I walk a lot. I swim like a stone.

Good luck. Cheers!!!

That's how I was on the treadmill. At first I could barely do anything on even slow speeds. Eventually my legs would hurt well before I would even be slightly out of breath.