Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,730
Not to stir anything but I think his analogy is fine because if you buy powerPC now and use the software from that time you are fine. Same goes for DSLR and Mirrorless - with DSLR you are stuck with what you have. ML with the new AI chips could technically be updated with new features later. But I see your side also. ;-)
You should buy a camera because of what it offers you now, not some hoped for firmware update down the line. That said, yes, most cameras nowadays do get firmware updates; Fuji and Nikon are the only ones that have offered "big" releases via firmware; the others tend to be bug fixes or minor AF improvements. You can see a list here of the kinds of updates being offered on various cameras.

 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,993
56,012
Behind the Lens, UK
I remember a year or more ago trying ML camera in store. ( I think it was the Nikon version but forgot which one) and I actually didn't like it as it felt 'slow' and 'pixelated' (if that makes sense)

I believe that is all sorted now so will see next weekend how I feel about the new tech when I will go and test it :)

D750 is awesome camera. I remember how happy I was when I upgraded from D90. What a jump :)
I think the Z6 II has a better optical viewfinder than the previous version. But as I've said in this thread a few times, there really isn't a bad choice to make when buying a camera these days. Just choose the one you like the feel of and matches your budget. Then just get out there and have some fun.
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,730
I think the Z6 II has a better optical viewfinder than the previous version. But as I've said in this thread a few times, there really isn't a bad choice to make when buying a camera these days. Just choose the one you like the feel of and matches your budget. Then just get out there and have some fun.
I honestly don't notice a difference between the two. I don't even really notice the difference between an EVF and the OVF on my film cameras anymore... I mean, I should, and I technically do. But I'm pretty comfortable with my metering skills that I can use any kind of viewfinder and still get the exposure right. 🤷🏼‍♀️
 
  • Like
Reactions: kenoh

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,993
56,012
Behind the Lens, UK
I honestly don't notice a difference between the two. I don't even really notice the difference between an EVF and the OVF on my film cameras anymore... I mean, I should, and I technically do. But I'm pretty comfortable with my metering skills that I can use any kind of viewfinder and still get the exposure right. 🤷🏼‍♀️
Same. It's not difficult when the conditions are always the same. Overcast and grey skies! Or is that just a UK problem!:p
 

Freida

Suspended
Original poster
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,874
Yeah, I know. I exaggerated a bit ;-)

You should buy a camera because of what it offers you now, not some hoped for firmware update down the line. That said, yes, most cameras nowadays do get firmware updates; Fuji and Nikon are the only ones that have offered "big" releases via firmware; the others tend to be bug fixes or minor AF improvements. You can see a list here of the kinds of updates being offered on various cameras.

 

ssmed

macrumors 6502a
Sep 28, 2009
885
423
UK
You should buy a camera because of what it offers you now, not some hoped for firmware update down the line. That said, yes, most cameras nowadays do get firmware updates; Fuji and Nikon are the only ones that have offered "big" releases via firmware; the others tend to be bug fixes or minor AF improvements. You can see a list here of the kinds of updates being offered on various cameras.

Agreed. I have a D850. I will keep it till it breaks. With a few decent lenses and flash, it still costs a reasonable amount per picture used every other day or two. I am sure a Z6-9 would be great, but I have what I need. I am not sure I see heat the OP wants/needs.
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,730
Agreed. I have a D850. I will keep it till it breaks. With a few decent lenses and flash, it still costs a reasonable amount per picture used every other day or two. I am sure a Z6-9 would be great, but I have what I need. I am not sure I see heat the OP wants/needs.
The OP needs a new lens, but has arbitrarily decided that her camera is out of date, even though she really doesn't know how to use it. Therefore she has decided to buy an entirely new system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PrecisionGem

Freida

Suspended
Original poster
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,874
Agreed. I have a D850. I will keep it till it breaks. With a few decent lenses and flash, it still costs a reasonable amount per picture used every other day or two. I am sure a Z6-9 would be great, but I have what I need. I am not sure I see heat the OP wants/needs.
D850 is a wonderful camera
 

Freida

Suspended
Original poster
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,874
Not entirely. I do need new lens and I do not want to invest in the old system that Nikon killed.

Its the same as if I bought the current intel Mac Pro (or any intel system for that matter). Sure, it still works and sure I have one at home (2017MBP) but it wouldn't be wise to spend money on Intel now when everything is AS.
I do know how to use my camera, I just stated physical limitations of the camera but I still have workarounds. (like recomposing shots when the reach of AF is limited)

The OP needs a new lens, but has arbitrarily decided that her camera is out of date, even though she really doesn't know how to use it. Therefore she has decided to buy an entirely new system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clix Pix

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,730
Not entirely. I do need new lens and I do not want to invest in the old system that Nikon killed.

Its the same as if I bought the current intel Mac Pro (or any intel system for that matter). Sure, it still works and sure I have one at home (2017MBP) but it wouldn't be wise to spend money on Intel now when everything is AS.
I do know how to use my camera, I just stated physical limitations of the camera but I still have workarounds. (like recomposing shots when the reach of AF is limited)
Look, it's your money and your gear, so absolutely be happy in what you buy. But your analogy doesn't hold - you essentially need a new external hard drive for your Intel Mac, but you are wanting to throw it out the window for an M1 while also buying an external hard drive. A single lens will solve all your problems for the foreseeable future, just as an external hard drive would keep an Intel Mac humming along.

But this conversation has become very circular at this point and not really offering anything new. I wish you the best luck in your decision.
 

Freida

Suspended
Original poster
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,874
Thank you Molly!
I absolutely understand where you are coming from but I just don't want to invest into a system that Nikon killed. A great lens for my DSLR cost roughly the same as for ML so the cost on that front is not a factor as it will be almost the same on both systems.
However, getting a new body that will last longer, will be supported with other lenses etc. down the road is more futureproofing overall.
Investing into DSLR system was kinda never an option for me which I have decided a while back. I understand that a lot of users are happy with their gear and don't want to rush into ML land and thats all fine but as I said, I'm on a crossroad which is perfect for me to reevaluate where to go from here.
In all honesty, eventually most of us will have to jump to ML eventually once our systems die or break so its a matter of timing. I might decide to keep my current setup and just rent when I need 24-70 (or other lenses) and do the jump not in 2023 but in 2024 or 2025.
Photography is expensive and as I don't buy used gear (ever) I want to make sure I get the most for the long term which is why the suggestion to buy Nikon F mount 24-70 was not something I wanted to do.

I wish I could shoot pictures everyday and have fun everyday but its just not possible in my case. I work in VFX which means long hours a lot of overtime etc. so on top of that is life. Hence why I have this as a hobby and I'm not able to do it as often as I would (in theory) really want.

So, another point I've mentioned before. If there is a camera that will make my job easier in certain aspects (lets say AF for example) then I have more 'space' in my head to focus on the more important stuff (like composition, light, pose etc.) which results in much better photo in the end.
Kinda like having a manual car and automatic. I can drive a manual car because I grew up on manual and have no issue with it but driving automatic is just more comfortable and you have time to focus on other things. Same here, I can do this or that or I can upgrade and have one less task to worry about. I see camera as a tool that allows me to do the artistic vision I want to go for. Some people are tech and want to know everything inside out but some just want something that will allow them express their artform without knowing everything inside out.

I don't know which path I'll go or what I'll end up doing but I like to have a conversation about it. For some it may be crazy or for some it may be weird to not wanting to get lens for my current setup but for me its wasting money. The fact that Nikon stopped with DSLR is basically a stop for me. It would be like buying film camera when everyone was going digital. Long term it wouldn't make sense as we are now (almost all) digital. Same will happen with ML eventually so why investing in that ecosystem which Nikon killed.

Counterintuitive for some but thats how my mind works. Just like my next computer will be AS and not Intel even though there are amazing deals for 2020 iMacs etc. which are way faster and better than what I have right now.

I do appreciate your input Molly, don't get me wrong. We just look at the problem from a different angles but thats what is great about this conversation. We both might end up with something that would enrich us one way or another so I'm super appreciative. Thank you

Look, it's your money and your gear, so absolutely be happy in what you buy. But your analogy doesn't hold - you essentially need a new external hard drive for your Intel Mac, but you are wanting to throw it out the window for an M1 while also buying an external hard drive. A single lens will solve all your problems for the foreseeable future, just as an external hard drive would keep an Intel Mac humming along.

But this conversation has become very circular at this point and not really offering anything new. I wish you the best luck in your decision.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,993
56,012
Behind the Lens, UK
Thank you Molly!
I absolutely understand where you are coming from but I just don't want to invest into a system that Nikon killed. A great lens for my DSLR cost roughly the same as for ML so the cost on that front is not a factor as it will be almost the same on both systems.
However, getting a new body that will last longer, will be supported with other lenses etc. down the road is more futureproofing overall.
Investing into DSLR system was kinda never an option for me which I have decided a while back. I understand that a lot of users are happy with their gear and don't want to rush into ML land and thats all fine but as I said, I'm on a crossroad which is perfect for me to reevaluate where to go from here.
In all honesty, eventually most of us will have to jump to ML eventually once our systems die or break so its a matter of timing. I might decide to keep my current setup and just rent when I need 24-70 (or other lenses) and do the jump not in 2023 but in 2024 or 2025.
Photography is expensive and as I don't buy used gear (ever) I want to make sure I get the most for the long term which is why the suggestion to buy Nikon F mount 24-70 was not something I wanted to do.

I wish I could shoot pictures everyday and have fun everyday but its just not possible in my case. I work in VFX which means long hours a lot of overtime etc. so on top of that is life. Hence why I have this as a hobby and I'm not able to do it as often as I would (in theory) really want.

So, another point I've mentioned before. If there is a camera that will make my job easier in certain aspects (lets say AF for example) then I have more 'space' in my head to focus on the more important stuff (like composition, light, pose etc.) which results in much better photo in the end.
Kinda like having a manual car and automatic. I can drive a manual car because I grew up on manual and have no issue with it but driving automatic is just more comfortable and you have time to focus on other things. Same here, I can do this or that or I can upgrade and have one less task to worry about. I see camera as a tool that allows me to do the artistic vision I want to go for. Some people are tech and want to know everything inside out but some just want something that will allow them express their artform without knowing everything inside out.

I don't know which path I'll go or what I'll end up doing but I like to have a conversation about it. For some it may be crazy or for some it may be weird to not wanting to get lens for my current setup but for me its wasting money. The fact that Nikon stopped with DSLR is basically a stop for me. It would be like buying film camera when everyone was going digital. Long term it wouldn't make sense as we are now (almost all) digital. Same will happen with ML eventually so why investing in that ecosystem which Nikon killed.

Counterintuitive for some but thats how my mind works. Just like my next computer will be AS and not Intel even though there are amazing deals for 2020 iMacs etc. which are way faster and better than what I have right now.

I do appreciate your input Molly, don't get me wrong. We just look at the problem from a different angles but thats what is great about this conversation. We both might end up with something that would enrich us one way or another so I'm super appreciative. Thank you
I would seriously consider second hand gear. I got most of my gear that way. Especially lenses. Not off eBay, but from reputable camera shops etc. You can get some real bargains.
I was lucky and got my glass through a one time special at work. I paid like £150 for a 70-200 f 2.8 Nikon pro lens. I could sell it for more than that today despite having it for the last 8 or so years. Unfortunately that won't happen again, although I can still get a good discount when I do decide to upgrade at some point.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
That whole thing about being in the workforce is something which is a good point that I hadn't thought about at the time I wrote my posts enthusiastically endorsing the idea of going out shooting every day..... Yes, for me it's easy enough to do since I am retired and can pretty much choose however I want to utilize my time on any given day. People who have jobs requiring their presence in an office or other setting, or who need to provide evidence of active participation during work hours on a daily basis from home (WFH) are definitely not in the same situation as those who don't work outside or inside the home for an employer or actually at all (SAHM, Retirees, etc.).

So, yeah, sounds as though the idea of shooting something every day is off the table..... That said, though, there are some days when I've been busy and then darkness starts to fall and I think, "oh, gee, I didn't shoot anything today!" and often I'll just pull out the iPhone and fire off a snapshot or two, nothing for public consumption, just to keep myself in the groove, the habit, of shooting regularly. Every image I shoot doesn't have to be a masterpiece and, well, some of them just aren't! They're the ones which never make it beyond the initial reviewing stage and are dispatched to the trash bin promptly.

When one is limited to primarily weekends and holidays for shooting, that definitely presents issues, but even at that there may be an opportunity to still spend some time with the camera even though you already know that the results aren't going to be anything wonderful. It's the whole getting-to-know-the-camera-and-the-lens(es) and what all they can do in your hands that is the main point of the exercise of shooting frequently.
 
Last edited:

Boidem

Suspended
Nov 16, 2022
306
245
The OP needs a new lens, but has arbitrarily decided that her camera is out of date, even though she really doesn't know how to use it. Therefore she has decided to buy an entirely new system.
Harsh, but fair, I think. Freida doesn't need any new equipment at all, they just need to get out and use what they've got now. Their current equipment isn't hindering their photography in any meaningful way. A ML system won't offer anything over what they have now, other than say a slight improvement in IBIS (over VR lenses alone), and perhaps a teeny bit in terms of overall image quality. But very marginal gains, for a large outlay. Freida seems to be unduly influenced (I think this is the perfect word to use int his context) by marketing etc, want wants something new. Fair enough, but that's not actually going to solve any issues. The time to upgrade/replace is when your current equipment is no longer allowing you to do what you want, and that's definitely not the case here really. The D750 is a far more capable cam than some might make out. I continued using a 2006 MacPro way longer than most people would, and only replaced it when, funnily enough, I discovered I could not simply import RAW image files from my new Nikon Z6 to Lightroom, and needed software updates the MP wasn't capable of receiving. My Nikon FM2 is literally falling apart; the self timer switch fell off many years ago, and the rewind crank handle is missing. Still works though. I enjoy cycling, and have some pretty old bikes (like 150-20+ years old) and all the marketing screams how useless and incapable such bikes are, but I still enjoy my cycling.
I just don't want to invest into a system that Nikon killed
You keep repeating this line as though it's fact. Nikon have 'killed' nothing; many DSLR cams and F-mount lenses are still available new, and will be for some time to come. They even still offer new manual focus only lenses! Yes, the whole line is being scaled back, and more lenses discontinued, but this is an evolution, not genocide. The F-mount will continue to be supported for many years, decades even, to come, as there are many many millions of photographers using that system.
I don't buy used gear (ever)
See, to me, this is just silly. Why limit yourself to just that which is new? Right now, s/h kit is waaaay cheaper than buying new. I've bought most of my kit s/h; I think just one F-mount lens and my Z kit is what I've bought new (the Z kit only because there was bugger all s/h kit available anyway), plus the D600 body. Pretty much every lens I've bought has been mint or near as, and has worked perfectly. And some utter bargains; pretty much as new 60mm and 105mm macro lenses, and a 70-200 f2.8. Every other lens has been optically spotless. And that's even risking the perils of Ebay! In fact the only junk I've ever bought s/h was a Canon lens...
Photography is expensive
It's only as expensive as you want it to be. Right now, you could be enjoying your D750 and 85mm lens, and not spend anything at all. And really enjoy it.
 

kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I would seriously consider second hand gear. I got most of my gear that way. Especially lenses. Not off eBay, but from reputable camera shops etc. You can get some real bargains.
I was lucky and got my glass through a one time special at work. I paid like £150 for a 70-200 f 2.8 Nikon pro lens. I could sell it for more than that today despite having it for the last 8 or so years. Unfortunately that won't happen again, although I can still get a good discount when I do decide to upgrade at some point.
@Freida, when I got the Z6, I got the 24-70 f4 kit lens but then bought used Nikon F mount glass. The quality of the glass at that price point is hard to beat and really, a 70-200 is big regardless of whether it is DSLR or Mirrorless so the adapter is neither here nor there. Outside some of the Canon RF lenses, the new mirrorless lenses are typically the same as the DSLR versions but with the mount changed and a bit more added onto the barrel length to cover the delta in flange depth.

I think that while we all see the obvious trajectory of the camera market, we cannot compare a camera to a computer. An Intel Mac will in a year or so become too slow and out of date whereas a camera won't all of a sudden start slowing down or dropping from 36mp to 18mp because it is too tired to use all of the ones it has. I would think of it more like a car comparison. If you go buy a car, you can happily maintain it and run if for years even decades after it is out of production and it can be kept close to full working order. Leica M3,M6,Canon AE-1, Nikon FM Hasselblad for example

I would argue that the D750 using SD Cards will outlast my Z6 which is using a single QXD card (I know it can use CFExpress typeB). Obsolete media formats and availability of new batteries is a bigger threat to cameras than the next new shiny one.

In all of this, a good lens is a good lens and there is no shortage of people prepared to pay for quality glass and Nikon F has been at the pinnacle of that for decades.

They may stop manufacturing DSLRs in our lifetime but the demand for the lenses will not diminish.

Have you considered something more compact? like a Ricoh GRiiix? or a Fuji X100V or Q2? reason being that from what you said, you are busy like the rest of us and struggle to balance shutter time with rest of life time. Maybe exploring a smaller more portable camera system might help to carve out more moments of freedom and spontaneity thus helping you to get more fun from the camera? Then keeping what you have already for the "proper" shoot outings?
 

Freida

Suspended
Original poster
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,874
Yeah, for the spontaneity I have iPhone 14 Pro which takes fantastic pictures.
Sometimes I don't like the editing it does but in general it is a great pocket camera to have for those moments.

@Freida, when I got the Z6, I got the 24-70 f4 kit lens but then bought used Nikon F mount glass. The quality of the glass at that price point is hard to beat and really, a 70-200 is big regardless of whether it is DSLR or Mirrorless so the adapter is neither here nor there. Outside some of the Canon RF lenses, the new mirrorless lenses are typically the same as the DSLR versions but with the mount changed and a bit more added onto the barrel length to cover the delta in flange depth.

I think that while we all see the obvious trajectory of the camera market, we cannot compare a camera to a computer. An Intel Mac will in a year or so become too slow and out of date whereas a camera won't all of a sudden start slowing down or dropping from 36mp to 18mp because it is too tired to use all of the ones it has. I would think of it more like a car comparison. If you go buy a car, you can happily maintain it and run if for years even decades after it is out of production and it can be kept close to full working order. Leica M3,M6,Canon AE-1, Nikon FM Hasselblad for example

I would argue that the D750 using SD Cards will outlast my Z6 which is using a single QXD card (I know it can use CFExpress typeB). Obsolete media formats and availability of new batteries is a bigger threat to cameras than the next new shiny one.

In all of this, a good lens is a good lens and there is no shortage of people prepared to pay for quality glass and Nikon F has been at the pinnacle of that for decades.

They may stop manufacturing DSLRs in our lifetime but the demand for the lenses will not diminish.

Have you considered something more compact? like a Ricoh GRiiix? or a Fuji X100V or Q2? reason being that from what you said, you are busy like the rest of us and struggle to balance shutter time with rest of life time. Maybe exploring a smaller more portable camera system might help to carve out more moments of freedom and spontaneity thus helping you to get more fun from the camera? Then keeping what you have already for the "proper" shoot outings?
 

Freida

Suspended
Original poster
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,874
So I looked at used 24-70 lens for illustration and found out that here in Canada its not much cheaper than if I buy on amazon new. I've used https://www.henrys.com as that is the only one I know.
So where do you all get these amazing deals (Canadians) you talk about?

Also, One other scenario for me would be to buy Z lens 24-70 if I can mount it on my D750 with an adapter (not fan of that but that could be great compromise as I would future proof myself and still have 'the best of both")

However, I'm not able to find if Z lens can be mounted on F mount with an adapter. I was able to find it only the other way around. Is there a solution for that or its not possible?
 

Boidem

Suspended
Nov 16, 2022
306
245
I would argue that the D750 using SD Cards will outlast my Z6 which is using a single QXD card (I know it can use CFExpress typeB). Obsolete media formats and availability of new batteries is a bigger threat to cameras than the next new shiny one.
The CFEx cards are pretty ubiquitous across high end cams now, so I don't think you've got much to worry about. In fact surely it's SD cards that are dated now. Using a single XQD/CFEx card slot in the Z6 was the biggest mistake Nikon have made in a long time, imo. Bad. Those cards are soooo expensive. And I had a 120Gb XQD card fail on me. Ask me how I felt about that. Adding an SD card slot in the Z6II (plus the ability to use a proper control grip) were things that should have been done on the first model. Rare for Nikon to get things that wrong with a new cam, tbh. Canon's first ML FF cam had no IBIS, which instantly ruled it out for me. But then; Sony's poor (by comparison) UI and ergonomics are their 'weakness', so I suppose it all balances out.


Outside some of the Canon RF lenses, the new mirrorless lenses are typically the same as the DSLR versions but with the mount changed and a bit more added onto the barrel length to cover the delta in flange depth.
Actually no; Nikon's new Z mount lenses are all redesigns, to make better use of the larger lens mount aperture. This is why the Z lenses are pretty much all optically better than their F-mount equivalents. The 50mm f1.8, for example, is significantly better than its predecessors, and any of the f1.4 F-mount versions. I know, because I've owned most of them! Sharper corner to corner, better colour rendering etc. Superb. The f1.2 and 58mm f0.95 lenses are another level again. Now I'm 'invested' in the Z system, I will say that I don't think I'll be buying any more 'modern' F-mount lenses, perhaps maybe the odd older 'exotic' lens or two, but I wouldn't buy say the F-mount 105mm f1.4, however nice it is, as I'd rather wait for a Z equivalent to be available. I doubt I'll be swapping my F-mount 70-200 f2.8 VRII for a Z-mount version, as that would cost a lot of money for improvements I can't really justify. It does annoy me I cant use my older, superb 105mm macro in AF, as it's a mechanical version. Ditto my lovely old 85mm f1.8; again, a mechanical AF version. These will possibly be 'replaced' by Z-mount versions at some stage; the focus stacking feature on the Z cams means I'll be wanting a new 105mm macro. And some of the nicer Nikkor F-mount lenses, such as the DC 105 and 135 lenses, are also mechanical AF. Shame. But; given that the F-mount is now 60+ years old, it's inevitable that technology will end up producing something better. The F-mount was developed specifically for SLRs, which are compromised by having a mirror box (something rangefinder cams like the Leicas weren't, of course), and the 44mm lens mount diameter was chosen to help keep lens sizes down (notice how pretty much all the Z mount lenses are actually physically larger than most F-mount equivalents). Everything's a compromise; in 1959, the current lens technology was deemed more than adequate for most uses, so that's what stuck. One of the most significant downsides of Sony's lens mount is its small diameter relative to Canon and Nikon ML systems; as sensors get better and higher resolution, so lenses will correspondingly need to improve, and as good as many Sony/Zeiss lenses are, there's only so far they can take things with that limited lens mount. That is the key factor, knowing what I do now after 3+ years experience with the Z-system, that would put me off Sony. But of course; Sony is fine, there's nothing wrong with it, so it's not a good reason to not buy their stuff, it's just MY reason.
 

Freida

Suspended
Original poster
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,874
You've summarised nicely why you don't want to invest into F mount and I look at it the same way. There is just no point now. Tech is improving and new tech that is the future is here so F mount makes no sense.

Z lens on F mount is the only solution I feel would work for me as I would buy the future whilst securing my future path too. Win win.

The CFEx cards are pretty ubiquitous across high end cams now, so I don't think you've got much to worry about. In fact surely it's SD cards that are dated now. Using a single XQD/CFEx card slot in the Z6 was the biggest mistake Nikon have made in a long time, imo. Bad. Those cards are soooo expensive. And I had a 120Gb XQD card fail on me. Ask me how I felt about that. Adding an SD card slot in the Z6II (plus the ability to use a proper control grip) were things that should have been done on the first model. Rare for Nikon to get things that wrong with a new cam, tbh. Canon's first ML FF cam had no IBIS, which instantly ruled it out for me. But then; Sony's poor (by comparison) UI and ergonomics are their 'weakness', so I suppose it all balances out.



Actually no; Nikon's new Z mount lenses are all redesigns, to make better use of the larger lens mount aperture. This is why the Z lenses are pretty much all optically better than their F-mount equivalents. The 50mm f1.8, for example, is significantly better than its predecessors, and any of the f1.4 F-mount versions. I know, because I've owned most of them! Sharper corner to corner, better colour rendering etc. Superb. The f1.2 and 58mm f0.95 lenses are another level again. Now I'm 'invested' in the Z system, I will say that I don't think I'll be buying any more 'modern' F-mount lenses, perhaps maybe the odd older 'exotic' lens or two, but I wouldn't buy say the F-mount 105mm f1.4, however nice it is, as I'd rather wait for a Z equivalent to be available. I doubt I'll be swapping my F-mount 70-200 f2.8 VRII for a Z-mount version, as that would cost a lot of money for improvements I can't really justify. It does annoy me I cant use my older, superb 105mm macro in AF, as it's a mechanical version. Ditto my lovely old 85mm f1.8; again, a mechanical AF version. These will possibly be 'replaced' by Z-mount versions at some stage; the focus stacking feature on the Z cams means I'll be wanting a new 105mm macro. And some of the nicer Nikkor F-mount lenses, such as the DC 105 and 135 lenses, are also mechanical AF. Shame. But; given that the F-mount is now 60+ years old, it's inevitable that technology will end up producing something better. The F-mount was developed specifically for SLRs, which are compromised by having a mirror box (something rangefinder cams like the Leicas weren't, of course), and the 44mm lens mount diameter was chosen to help keep lens sizes down (notice how pretty much all the Z mount lenses are actually physically larger than most F-mount equivalents). Everything's a compromise; in 1959, the current lens technology was deemed more than adequate for most uses, so that's what stuck. One of the most significant downsides of Sony's lens mount is its small diameter relative to Canon and Nikon ML systems; as sensors get better and higher resolution, so lenses will correspondingly need to improve, and as good as many Sony/Zeiss lenses are, there's only so far they can take things with that limited lens mount. That is the key factor, knowing what I do now after 3+ years experience with the Z-system, that would put me off Sony. But of course; Sony is fine, there's nothing wrong with it, so it's not a good reason to not buy their stuff, it's just MY reason.
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,730
It is not physically possible to mount a Z lens on an F mount camera.
 

kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
The CFEx cards are pretty ubiquitous across high end cams now, so I don't think you've got much to worry about. In fact surely it's SD cards that are dated now. Using a single XQD/CFEx card slot in the Z6 was the biggest mistake Nikon have made in a long time, imo. Bad. Those cards are soooo expensive. And I had a 120Gb XQD card fail on me. Ask me how I felt about that. Adding an SD card slot in the Z6II (plus the ability to use a proper control grip) were things that should have been done on the first model. Rare for Nikon to get things that wrong with a new cam, tbh. Canon's first ML FF cam had no IBIS, which instantly ruled it out for me. But then; Sony's poor (by comparison) UI and ergonomics are their 'weakness', so I suppose it all balances out.



Actually no; Nikon's new Z mount lenses are all redesigns, to make better use of the larger lens mount aperture. This is why the Z lenses are pretty much all optically better than their F-mount equivalents. The 50mm f1.8, for example, is significantly better than its predecessors, and any of the f1.4 F-mount versions. I know, because I've owned most of them! Sharper corner to corner, better colour rendering etc. Superb. The f1.2 and 58mm f0.95 lenses are another level again. Now I'm 'invested' in the Z system, I will say that I don't think I'll be buying any more 'modern' F-mount lenses, perhaps maybe the odd older 'exotic' lens or two, but I wouldn't buy say the F-mount 105mm f1.4, however nice it is, as I'd rather wait for a Z equivalent to be available. I doubt I'll be swapping my F-mount 70-200 f2.8 VRII for a Z-mount version, as that would cost a lot of money for improvements I can't really justify. It does annoy me I cant use my older, superb 105mm macro in AF, as it's a mechanical version. Ditto my lovely old 85mm f1.8; again, a mechanical AF version. These will possibly be 'replaced' by Z-mount versions at some stage; the focus stacking feature on the Z cams means I'll be wanting a new 105mm macro. And some of the nicer Nikkor F-mount lenses, such as the DC 105 and 135 lenses, are also mechanical AF. Shame. But; given that the F-mount is now 60+ years old, it's inevitable that technology will end up producing something better. The F-mount was developed specifically for SLRs, which are compromised by having a mirror box (something rangefinder cams like the Leicas weren't, of course), and the 44mm lens mount diameter was chosen to help keep lens sizes down (notice how pretty much all the Z mount lenses are actually physically larger than most F-mount equivalents). Everything's a compromise; in 1959, the current lens technology was deemed more than adequate for most uses, so that's what stuck. One of the most significant downsides of Sony's lens mount is its small diameter relative to Canon and Nikon ML systems; as sensors get better and higher resolution, so lenses will correspondingly need to improve, and as good as many Sony/Zeiss lenses are, there's only so far they can take things with that limited lens mount. That is the key factor, knowing what I do now after 3+ years experience with the Z-system, that would put me off Sony. But of course; Sony is fine, there's nothing wrong with it, so it's not a good reason to not buy their stuff, it's just MY reason.

I stand corrected on the latest Z mount lenses. I doff my cap to you.

On the XQD I had a not too dissimilar experience whereby I put my QXD card in the reader one day and culled some images directly from the image folder. To my horror, when the card was back in the camera I was getting errors everytime I took a picture and the previews wouldnt work. I mounted the card in the computer and they were there but the camera wasn't playing nicely. So I got another card. Cha-ching.....

Then I repeated the above.... to THEN find out the cards were fine, it was me being an idiot. Of course deleting directly from the card would muck up the image database..... oops... To add salt to the wounds, this was far from my first digital camera.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.