Here's How Web Apps Work in macOS Sonoma

[960design]

However, the "gotcha" was that Safari didn't support web apps on the Mac, so there was no way to get around the 7-day limit. Now, I have never tested any of this on the Mac but had no reason to doubt it. If you have actually tested and found it to be untrue, that is interesting.

Ahhhh... I believe I "misspoke".
My Mac's have had constant access to internet, so they have refreshed apps installed via Brave and Chrome. Never previously installed apps via Firefox or Safari ( I did not think you could ).
My test iPads have web apps that survived beyond 30 days.

I have an extra test MacMini that is running Ventura. I will see if it kills the web app data stored in local storage and IndexedDB after 7 days.

 

[ipaqrat]

This looks great! I've been looking for something like this for a couple of years now. We use some web based cloud services for a lot of our work and I've always wanted to keep them separate from all my other browsing. I use another browser (chrome) just for those apps now but I've long wanted to be able to package these two apps into a stand alone app.

Same here. Got 'r dun with Safari's profiles and tab groups.

 

[svish]

Good article and great to see this feature in Safari this year!

 

[junolab]

clutter and chrome go hand in hand, so not sure what you’re saying here.

I think most people here know that. It’s also been available using the safari engine with 3rd party apps for years. But it’s nice to be native in safari on the Mac at last.

Well I don't think they really do. For me it's pretty obvious reading it here, but fair to read it differently.

 

[ErikGrim]

So they Sherlocked Fluid.app and mimicked Chromium? Yay?

It's not like Apple invented this with the very first iPhone or anything

 

[Powerbooky]

Looks like a function from MacOS Leopard (in 2006!!) that has been reworked:

 

[Kuckuckstein]

This looks great! I've been looking for something like this for a couple of years now. We use some web based cloud services for a lot of our work and I've always wanted to keep them separate from all my other browsing. I use another browser (chrome) just for those apps now but I've long wanted to be able to package these two apps into a stand alone app.

I have been using as an example YouTube on my Mac for years this way, pinning the apps through the Edge Browser. And you could have done the same with Chrome, since they use the same engine.

Unfortunately, ob macOS Edge itself would have to start and run explicitly in the background. Not so if you do the same on Windows.

This is an old technology that took ages to come to the walled garden of Mac. And there is nothing more dangerous about it than opening the same website in the browser. It is just convenient.

But I guess it undermines the business case of the App Store

 

[zapmymac]

Nice to see MacOS finally catching up to iPadOS/iOS in this regard

…and Windows 8—>

 

[Kuckuckstein]

So reading through the comments I get the impression this is basically creating a Safari shortcut on your dock, that opens a streamlined browser view, which may or may not be fully compatible with your keychain credentials? 😳

What am I missing?

It should be just as accessing the keychain while opening a site in the Safari browser. If not, then Apple messed up.

Technologically this is simply opening a separate Safari window without the standard UI of tabs, address bar etc. But the underlying security technologies including fetching or writing passwords should still be active.

The only reason not to provide this smoothly, is to put an artificial stone in the path of the user. Or bad coding …

 

[Kuckuckstein]

How is this useful?. What is its value as user over a browser?. I don’t see it. I have to have a web app for every website I visit instead of having tabs in the browser?.

No. This is meant for websites that you would use like apps, or at least all day.

I have YouTube and YouTube music as pinned apps. Other examples would be (G)Mail (as others already mentioned), Figma, SketchUp and the likes. You get them as installed versions though, which could be electron based. Haven’t bothered to investigate.

 

[Kuckuckstein]

Are they as useless as iOS web apps, where they can't be manually refreshed and don't retain your login to the site in question?

I think all of that derives from that all iOS browsers use Safari as the underlying engine. Using PWAs on my Windows machine I can refresh and I maintain longtime login.

So this is Apple …

 

[Kuckuckstein]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Steve Jobs against web apps which is why we have the App Store yet now web apps on Safari is introduced in WWDC 2023?

Windows and other browsers aside from Safari are able to use web apps for years now right?

Interestingly, as others mentioned, he wasn't. Initially he did not want developers to enter the inner workings of iOS, because he believed them to mess up. With web apps developers could have written apps but the polished stuff would only come from Apple.

I think he was then quickly convinced by others that the revenue lied with platform exclusive apps, controlled through the app shop. And I think for all the time PWAs existed Apple did not want to open up because it could undermine app sales.

Lets be honest, a lot of stuff that is sold as native app can be easily written as a app-like website (all those small shopping apps like StarBucks etc). Most of the time you don't need access to the hardware, except maybe the camera for scanning codes. It is then much easier to roll out the apps as websites, circumvent approval processes and so on.

If you are honest, most of your app's functionality is serving data from a server or communicating with it, this makes your dev live so much easier. And Web UI programming allows for such beautiful experiences. Admitted, it is a bit laggy when it comes to button pushes etc (with everything being scripted, having to go through a browser engine and so), but for many applications this can work out perfectly.

And Figma, SketchUp and other cloud based drawing apps showcase, how powerful web technology can be. And Apple even was one of the main drivers for this, ditching Flash and empowering HTML5.

But then the small Apple became the big ... revenue was so precious and ...

 

[Kuckuckstein]

Is it safe to say Apple’s Web Apps are the same thing as a Progressive Web App?

Yes.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Steve Jobs against web apps which is why we have the App Store yet now web apps on Safari is introduced in WWDC 2023?

Windows and other browsers aside from Safari are able to use web apps for years now right?

Windows has this feature since 2018, I have used it since then and it's awesome. I have multiple "apps" installed on my pc's and they work great.

 

[Boyd01]

Never previously installed apps via Firefox or Safari ( I did not think you could ).

You cannot install web apps in Safari on MacOS, you can only open them as a website. That's the point.... mobile Safari supports web apps with persistent storage, MacOS Safari never has. Guess we'll have to wait and see if this new feature changes that, or if it's just a different way to save a bookmark.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

You cannot install web apps in Safari on MacOS, you can only open them as a website. That's the point.... mobile Safari supports web apps with persistent storage, MacOS Safari never has. Guess we'll have to wait and see if this new feature changes that, or if it's just a different way to save a bookmark.

If it works like it does on windows, it's different than just saving a bookmark.

 

[Boyd01]

If it works like it does on windows, it's different than just saving a bookmark.

You can already use web apps on MacOS in Chrome and Edge (maybe other browsers?). But the thing is, a web app must have some special resources that a website usually doesn't have. Specifically, it needs a manifest and a serviceworker (also an icon and it must use https). More information about this here.

So, that's what's confusing me. If the developer hasn't built their site to be a web app, does this new Sonoma feature magically turn it into one?

 

[The point and shoot pro]

You can already use web apps on MacOS in Chrome and Edge (maybe other browsers?). But the thing is, a web app must have some special resources that a website usually doesn't have. Specifically, it needs a manifest and a serviceworker (also an icon and it must use https). More information about this here.

So, that's what's confusing me. If the developer hasn't built their site to be a web app, does this new Sonoma feature magically turn it into one?

Good question. Something I never thought of because on my windows systems it just works. I save as an app, then when I open said app, it behaves like an app. I really could not tell you what goes on behind the scenes.

 

[960design]

So, that's what's confusing me. If the developer hasn't built their site to be a web app, does this new Sonoma feature magically turn it into one?

We will find out soon enough!
Next week I will put Sonoma on a spare MacMini and see what happens.

 

[Boyd01]

I save as an app, then when I open said app, it behaves like an app.

With other browsers, you should not get the option to install a site as an app unless the resources I mentioned are present. For example, I have created my own installable web app. If I open the site URL in Chrome, under the "three dots" menu it offers to install it as an app. However, if I go to the MacRumors forums that option is not offered in Chrome. That's because MacRumors has not been configured as a web app (the Xenforo forum software has this capability, but MacRumors has not enabled it).

Hence, my confusion over this new Safari feature!

 

[dannys1]

This feature strikes me as the opening salvo in a larger play by Apple. Apple could be planning to transform their services like Apple Music or Pages into these web apps & it would be so seamless you can't tell the difference. Think of macOS like a pin setter and think of the code on the website as the pins getting loaded.

View attachment 2218066​

Apple Music has always effectively been a web app.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

With other browsers, you should not get the option to install a site as an app unless the resources I mentioned are present. For example, I have created my own installable web app. If I open the site URL in Chrome, under the "three dots" menu it offers to install it as an app. However, if I go to the MacRumors forums that option is not offered in Chrome. That's because MacRumors has not been configured as a web app (the Xenforo forum software has this capability, but MacRumors has not enabled it).

Hence, my confusion over this new Safari feature!

I just checked on edge and I do have the option to install macrumors as an app.

 

[MacFarmer]

But does it work only with safari? I want this option with my firefox and youtube adblock enebled. Now that would be amazing!

 

[Boyd01]

I just checked on edge and I do have the option to install macrumors as an app.

Interesting! Just tried, and you are right but there's a difference. When I go to MacRumors and choose Apps from the four dot menu it offers to "Install this site as an app". When I go to my own "real" PWA it says "Install Boyds Maps". So, apparently there's a difference of some sort.

 

[The point and shoot pro]

Interesting! Just tried, and you are right but there's a difference. When I go to MacRumors and choose Apps from the four dot menu it offers to "Install this site as an app". When I go to my own "real" PWA it says "Install Boyds Maps". So, apparently there's a difference of some sort.

Very interesting indeed. Have to check out everything on both systems to see if there is a difference on everything. I should be getting my mini soon.