Agreed. I can't use the M/L either, and I really like the Hermès sport band. What a shame.
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Hermès Edition Owners Thread
- Thread starter btrach144
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Agreed. I can't use the M/L either, and I really like the Hermès sport band. What a shame.
You're a dude who wants the 42mm but your wrist doesn't fit in a M/L sport band? I've got extremely small wrists and I still fit in the M/L band on the second smallest hole. Are you sure about that?
Or maybe it's a sign that the 38mm is better suited to smaller wrists and the 42mm for longer wrists.
What's a joke? Your post? I knew that when I posted.
Yes it is the internet. I just would prefer to avoid most of your comments on here. I just happen to enjoy the Hermès, so this has become a popular thread for that. I just think your idea of special edition of the AW are way off. Really makes no sense to me why you would buy the Hermès when you would not buy the ceramic edition. Whatever to each his own. Unless you are completely wrong.
Have you preordered online or do you plan on trying to pick one up at a Hermès/Apple Store?
Picked one up at the Hermes store on 9/23
What style did you go with?
Fauve Barenia double tour
Do you plan on buying additional bands?
Etoupe double tour and hoping I can custom order one.
What attracts you to the Hermès Edition over another AW version?
I love the fact that it is made by Hermes. They have excellent craftsmanship and I love the exclusive faces
Picked one up at the Hermes store on 9/23
What style did you go with?
Fauve Barenia double tour
Do you plan on buying additional bands?
Etoupe double tour and hoping I can custom order one.
What attracts you to the Hermès Edition over another AW version?
I love the fact that it is made by Hermes. They have excellent craftsmanship and I love the exclusive faces
if you can't use the sport band, you also can't use the hermes band, so why buy it at all?
example 1 - http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-watch...reSelect=false&product=MNQ82LL/A&step=detail# - "Band with 42mm case fits 165–195mm wrists."
example 2 - http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-watch...reSelect=false&product=MNQ32LL/A&step=detail# - "Fits 170-200mm wrists."
You will find that the M/L sport band covers the range 160mm to 210mm on a 42mm watch. http://store.apple.com/Catalog/regional/amr/pdf/static/pdf/content/Watch_Sizing_Guide.pdf
The M/L is therefore the appropriate size to include with 42mm watches. Somebody who could only use the S/M sport band would not be able to fit in the included leather bands.
Similarly, the S/M sport band on the 38mm models is appropriately sized to the included leather bands. I really don't see the issue.
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*wider wrists
You are right that the M/L Sports band would fit anyone who fit one of the 42 Hermes leather bands. However, the 42 S/M band fits wrist sized 140-185mm. So there's an overlap, where if your wrists are between 165-185mm, then you can wear a Hermes single tour band, AND you can wear both the S/M and M/L bands. And in that case, you might prefer the S/M sports band, because you have less band left over after you push the pin into the hole that fits your wrist. Also, the position of the holes in the two sports bands are staggered, so if you are in the middle range where both bands fit, you could find a better fit by trying both sizes and finding the one with a hole that best fit your wrist.
I suspect a similar math would apply to 38 mm band sizes.
So providing both Sports band sizes would give a better user experience for users who fall into overlap range, but providing only one doesn't make the Sports band unusable for anyone. Good catch.
That's right. The only exception would be the 38mm double tour in large size which it appears they discontinued now. for that one, the m/l may have been more appropriate but i don't remember the sizes off the top of my head.
Ok...I'm a little confused by the Hermes edition.
The single tour leather band costs £299 on its own, total price for the watch is £1199. This means you're paying £850 (minus £50 for the included sport band) for the SS watch with Hermes engraving and additional face.
The Apple SS with leather classic buckle band is £699. The classic buckle is £250 meaning the SS watch alone is £450...
How can Apple justify an extra £400 for an Identical SS watch with tweaked software and engraving (which is free on newly purchased iPads, iPods etc)???
Unless I'm missing something?
The single tour leather band costs £299 on its own, total price for the watch is £1199. This means you're paying £850 (minus £50 for the included sport band) for the SS watch with Hermes engraving and additional face.
The Apple SS with leather classic buckle band is £699. The classic buckle is £250 meaning the SS watch alone is £450...
How can Apple justify an extra £400 for an Identical SS watch with tweaked software and engraving (which is free on newly purchased iPads, iPods etc)???
Unless I'm missing something?
They can justify it because people will pay it. If people pay that £400 extra than it is worth £400 extra - the value of something is whatever someone is prepared to pay for it at point of sale.
You can't say something is worth extra because someone is willing to pay it. People are inherently stupid.
I guess you've just answered the question by not being able to justify the cost with anything other than "it's worth it because people are willing to pay it".
It is THE very definition of Economic Value in a free market economy. Do you really need me to give you a list of other products and services that cost vastly more than the sum of their parts?
Did I ask if it would sell? Did I ask if people were silly enough to buy it? No.
Read what I asked...is the additional spec justifiable over the base price? Your own opinion.
I'm getting one - so yes.
What would you warrant as a measure of "justification" in this case?
You asked if they can justify it (not sure who they need to "justify" to - shareholders?) - they can. By selling them at that price to people who are willing to pay for them. How does that NOT justify the added cost?
You're just being extremely defensive, it's now apparent why.
To you or the next person who has the disposable income it may be justifiable. Christ, Apple could probably sell branded toilet roll at triple the price and people will still buy it by the dozen.
Could I afford one? Yes, easily. Do I feel a little awkward paying £400 extra for an engraving and additional watch face (albeit the nicest available)? Yes.
When you factor in the exquisite band only costs an extra £50 over the Apple variant it makes the price difference of the SS models even more absurd. Had it been the other way round (band £400 more, watch £50 more) the price difference would have been more understandable.
The problem Agamble has, is that this is not simple economics. It's not simple supply and demand or market value. The market value for an Apple Watch is the US is $550 I believe and it sounds like it £499 in the U.K. On top of that the market value for a Hermès band is $350 here and I think he said £299 in the U.K.. Then you factor in the $50 market value sports band and you have $200 difference here in the US. While that is not the £400 the U.K. has, I can also see the point here. The market value of the items on their own are set by Apple already. They are simply bundling the items together and adding engraving and what 3 Watch faces. At most we are talking about $50. So we are still over market value by $150. Now I get what you are saying that people are willing to pay it, so Apple charges. That is smart, but that does not make this market value. Market value would be held for this item if it was only a bundle and alone is it own item only ever sold together. We do have individual parts that have their own market value. Normally bundling things together saves the customer money. This is not market value, but simple a mark up. People are willing to pay it, but that is not what the items yield on their own.
This is not simple economics. There is more to this.
I actually get your point. While I recognize that the market is bearing the price and that's how retail sales work, I do find it a bit odd that there's such a huge price difference relative to the price of the regular SS watches.
If there were some other factors besides the watch face...a special crown, perhaps more elaborate watch box, that sort of thing, it might not seem so blatantly "off" in price.
But that big a difference for a watch face and engraving that nobody sees because it's hidden underneath seems strange-ish.
I do not think this is an expensive watch, but I do think a person could achieve the same look with a SS and a band. Because these watches are not always on and if you ever need a face with more complications, your watch winds up effectively being just like all the other watches out there anyway. Especially if you use a non-Hermes band sometimes.
This all comes back to who justifies to whom. Apple doesn't have to justify anything to us, the consumer, they justify their pricing to their shareholders. We have to justify that extra cost to ourselves - do we feel it is worth the extra. Yes? Then buy it. No? Then don't.
I justify the cost because I can afford it and I don't think any of the Hermes bands go well with any of the stock faces and I like the package as a whole.
You can't justify it because although you can afford it, you don't put the same value in the "whole package" as I do. Which is probably more rational than my position - but then I've never been one to make rational purchases and tend to buy with my heart over my head.
There will be many, many more people with all manner of reasons as to why they will or won't buy the Hermes watch. As long as enough people feel they can justify the purchase, Apple can justify their pricing to their shareholders.
I'm honestly not being defensive. As I said, in the free market, sales determine whether a price is justified or not.
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I totally agree that it makes no sense rationally. But like I said, the definition of economic value is:
Economic value is a measure of the benefit provided by a good or service to an economic agent. It is generally measured relative to units of currency, and the interpretation is therefore "what is the maximum amount of money a specific actor is willing and able to pay for the good or service"?
Does anyone remember the Aston Martin Cygnet? It was essentially a Toyota IQ with an AM grille and fancy seats. For double the price of the standard IQ. It was a failed exercise and after sales of around 150 cars was abandoned.
A more successful example is the Leica and Panasonic collaboration. The LX100 and DLux Typ105 are essentially the same camera with different branding and slightly different jpeg engines. The Leica costs £250 more (50%) than the Panasonic. This has been going on for several generations of the DLux cameras for a premium that is essentially £250 for a red dot.
Apple and Hermes are probably having a right laugh at us for parting with so much cash but rightly so - we are fools. But happy fools with fancy watch faces and an orange sports band that rational people can't have!
Now that I double check, to be honest I'm not positive. All of my sport bands but one are 3rd party (which only came with one), and the other I no longer have the longer part so I can't check at the moment. On the shorter length, I use the middle of the 7 holes.
No it's not. Otherwise Apple wouldn't make and sell the shorter version for the 42mm for every sport band they make.
Regarding all the maths, on my Hermes band I do use the smallest hole on the band, though that fits perfectly. So maybe I can use the M/L sport band after all.
Yes, you can say that because that's the precise definition of market pricing.
As for "justifying it" here's what the Hermes watch includes that you would *not* get with the SS + an Hermes band purchased separately:
1) Hermes engraving on the back of the case. Apple charges $10 more for damage incidents to the Hermes than to the SS. So call that worth (at least) $10.
2) The Hermes face. I'd assign a non-zero value to this. I'd say $10. Yes, 3rd party faces, when eventually available, will undoubtedly be free or $.99 like most apps. However, verified 3rd party faces from real watch makers will undoubtedly cost more. $10 may wind up being (much) lower than such faces will cost. But call it $10 for now.
3) The Hermes version's warranty is the equivalent of purchasing the AC+ for $49 for the SS. So that's another $49.
4) The sport band. That's at least $50 since that's what the other 1st party sport bands cost. However, this one has Hermes branding on it (engraved on the underside of the pin) and is otherwise not available to purchase. I would say at *least* $60, and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up on eBay for more than that.
5) The Hermes edition includes a free, CSR led, web based set up and tour of features. Obviously most of us on here don't need such a thing. But there are those who do, and those who might otherwise pay for such a service. But I'll leave this at $0.
So added up, there's (at least) another $129 in value. So that price gap between the Hermes edition and a SS + Hermes band is narrowed by that amount. Is it worth it? All in the eye of the beholder.
The AC extended warranty does not come with the Hermès right? You have to pay for that. It is longer out of the box, but still you have to pay for it.
That can't be added into the cost because you have to pay $99 for it.
Edit: now I see what you are saying, but it's not like Apple care plus because you can't get accidental damage coverage.
That's incorrect. Look at the page that compares what you get for each model with and without AC+. The *included* warranty with the Hermes edition is the same as the SS with AC+. AC+ for the Hermes edition extends it out beyond that.
EDIT: to be specific, the SS with AC+ gets 2 years of phone and repair support. The Hermes includes that. Adding AC+ to Hermes extends it from 2 years to 3 years.
Is it the same? I don't see accidental coverage included in that 2 year warranty. It's says it's a 2 year limited warranty.
Well, it's in somewhere in between. Here's the language:
For the SS:
Every Apple Watch and Apple Watch Nike+ comes with one year of hardware repair coverage through its limited warranty and up to 90 days of complimentary support.
AppleCare+ for Apple Watch and Apple Watch Nike+ extends your coverage to two years from the original purchase date of your Apple Watch and adds up to two incidents of accidental damage coverage, each subject to a $69 service fee, plus applicable tax. In addition, you’ll get 24/7 priority access to Apple experts via chat or phone through getsupport.apple.com.
Extend your coverage to two years of service and expert telephone technical support.
For the Hermes:
Every Apple Watch Edition and Apple Watch Hermès comes with two years of hardware repair coverage through its limited warranty and up to two years of complimentary support.
AppleCare+ for Apple Watch Edition and Apple Watch Hermès extends your coverage to three years from the original purchase date of your Apple Watch and adds up to two incidents of accidental damage coverage, each subject to a $79 service fee plus applicable tax. In addition, you’ll get 24/7 priority access to Apple experts via chat or phone through getsupport.apple.com.
Extend your coverage to three years of service and expert telephone technical support.
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So, you're correct that the Hermes doesn't get you exactly what the SS w/AC+ gets you. But it is definitely an improved extended warranty. So perhaps not $49. But certainly not $0 either.
For the SS:
Every Apple Watch and Apple Watch Nike+ comes with one year of hardware repair coverage through its limited warranty and up to 90 days of complimentary support.
AppleCare+ for Apple Watch and Apple Watch Nike+ extends your coverage to two years from the original purchase date of your Apple Watch and adds up to two incidents of accidental damage coverage, each subject to a $69 service fee, plus applicable tax. In addition, you’ll get 24/7 priority access to Apple experts via chat or phone through getsupport.apple.com.
Extend your coverage to two years of service and expert telephone technical support.
For the Hermes:
Every Apple Watch Edition and Apple Watch Hermès comes with two years of hardware repair coverage through its limited warranty and up to two years of complimentary support.
AppleCare+ for Apple Watch Edition and Apple Watch Hermès extends your coverage to three years from the original purchase date of your Apple Watch and adds up to two incidents of accidental damage coverage, each subject to a $79 service fee plus applicable tax. In addition, you’ll get 24/7 priority access to Apple experts via chat or phone through getsupport.apple.com.
Extend your coverage to three years of service and expert telephone technical support.
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So, you're correct that the Hermes doesn't get you exactly what the SS w/AC+ gets you. But it is definitely an improved extended warranty. So perhaps not $49. But certainly not $0 either.