How Apple can help kill Facebook

[1226670]

Now let's say you register a Google account with the intent of using Gmail, Google Search and getting a better Youtube experience. Suddenly you're allowing Google to scrape your email and more tightly profile your interests, among other things. Compared to how it was before your privacy is more limited.

You add a Facebook account. Your social connections are mapped, your messages scraped, your interests scrutinized and more. Compared to before your privacy is once again cut down.

Gmail and Facebook invests billions in data centres and they hire thousand of engineers to develop and maintain those services.

But both of the product are free for us as end users. If they don't scrape your data, if they don't map your conversations and if they don't build user profiles to show relevant ads, How will they maintain their data and centres pay their developers ?

If the user is making a Gmail /FB account they know fully well that they are paying for the service by giving away their data. I am not saying that the above is good or bad its just a business model.

Apple has a different model where you pay cash upfront for every service you use.


But one cant expect to be using a service which costs billions to run and not pay in any way. You cant blame google for scraping your email building your profile and showing you ads if you decide to use gmail and not pay for it. Same is the case with FB.

I guess blaming Google/FB for privacy breach has become vogue among Apple users.

 

[Puonti]

Gmail and Facebook invests billions in data centres and they hire thousand of engineers to develop and maintain those services.

But both of the product are free for us as end users. If they don't scrape your data, if they don't map your conversations and if they don't build user profiles to show relevant ads, How will they maintain their data and centres pay their developers ?

Yep, that's their business model. I'm fine with it as long as they're open and honest about the model, they don't overreach, they keep the data secure and it's opt-in. I'm of the opinion that they're not delivering on those points in a satisfactory manner, but that's a battle for invested organizations and governments to take on. All I can do is say no thanks where possible.

If the user is making a Gmail /FB account they know fully well that they are paying for the service by giving away their data. I am not saying that the above is good or bad its just a business model.

Sadly there's plenty of evidence both of users not understanding this, and companies not holding up their end of the bargain (safekeeping the data given to them).

But yes, on forums such as this one I imagine awareness is much higher.

You cant blame google for scraping your email building your profile and showing you ads if you decide to use gmail and not pay for it. Same is the case with FB.

And you'll notice I'm not blaming them for it, I'm just saying no thanks.

 

[ipedro]

You are misinformed here.

Its not that Facebook is tracking you out of the blue. Westjet would have made a deal with Facebook to track and analyse your behaviour using Facebook analytics.
You should be really blaming westjet here that inspite of you paying for your ticket they still decided to ask Facebook to track you and earn from you. [I am assuming westjet is a flight booking site].

Facebook/ Google get a very bad name that they are tracking users. Yeah they are tracking you. But its the sites which you are visiting who have made deals with FB/ Google to track you and show you relevant advertisement to earn money from your views.

Are you ready to pay for every single free website you visit ? Because they have to get money from somewhere and that somewhere is advertising. So every single site which is free uses some sort of tracking generally google or Facebook to track you and show you advertisement.

You have few options -
1. Stop visiting free sites if you are afraid of being tracked.
2. If enough people are ready to pay for browsing internet maybe in future we will have an option of paying to visit every site so that they wont track you or show you advertisement.

Until then theres no free lunch. If you are using a free service you have to pay in someway. And that someway is advertising and tracking.

And for all of those "privacy advocates" out there they should really just stop using a free service/website.
if you are using a free service and and not paying in any way thats just pure stealing.
If your privacy is so much worth it just stop using all the free services.
Its just poor taste to use them and then rant about how xyz company is tracking you, showing advertisement etc etc

You're conflating the issue with being tracked around the web with consenting to having our customer data used inside of a website.

Facebook doesn't need to track me around the entire web to generate revenue. They can serve me ads on their own platform and make a data model about me when I'm on Facebook, and I'm fine with that. But once they start snooping into me outside of the website that I consented to being on, then that's a problem for me and for privacy advocates.

It's not all or nothing. They're going beyond bounds with their data collection. Besides, as the entire purpose of this thread demonstrates, I'm hoping for Facebook to be killed off by having its primary uses replaced by features inside of iOS and Android respectively. I don't want to use their website, neither free nor paid.

P.S: WestJet doesn't need to track me to generate revenue. They're an airline. Facebook's entire infrastructure is built to facilitate this, so yes, they're the problem. Facebook builds a profile of people who have never created an account nor even go to Facebook or their other apps. I'm happy that Sign In With Apple and Safari's privacy features are beginning to break Facebook's ability to get our data, whether we consented to it by visiting their website or haven't ever agreed to be a part of Facebook's data collection.

 

[1226670]

You're conflating the issue with being tracked around the web with consenting to having our customer data used inside of a website.

Facebook doesn't need to track me around the entire web to generate revenue. They can serve me ads on their own platform and make a data model about me when I'm on Facebook, and I'm fine with that. But once they start snooping into me outside of the website that I consented to being on,

You either did not read my post carefully or did not understand it.

Anyways good luck with your dream of FB being Killed by Apple. Which is of course very uninformed.

Also instead of riding the hype train about FB being evil [which is obviously in vogue these days] you should invest your time to understand

How and why exactly the tracking occurs when visiting a website outside of FB.​

The ad revenue model on which most of the free websites are based.​

Why FB is not tracking you on paid websites.​

Why all the free websites mostly use Google or FB API for analytics et etc​

Then MAYBE you will understand how hard it is to kill FB and how all the websites where you get your content for "free" will be affected if FB or similar websites gets "Killed".

 

[ghanwani]

What % of FB's user base are Apple's customers?

Apple has ZERO chance of doing anything to FB.

A company cannot get to FB-style valuation without being, for all practical purposes, invincible.

The same can be said for any of the FANGMAN.

 

[ipedro]

What % of FB's user base are Apple's customers?

Apple has ZERO chance of doing anything to FB.

A company cannot get to FB-style valuation without being, for all practical purposes, invincible.

The same can be said for any of the FANGMAN.

Hidden under Apple’s market share is their proportion of the most valuable demographic that advertisers focus on. It’s well known that those who purchase Apple products are far and ahead more likely to follow through on ads to completing a purchase.

Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of Android devices are held by the segment of the world’s population that live below the poverty line. They’re for all intents and purposes, useless to companies serving ads. Above that, you have those living just below the middle class, which represent an even larger segment that is ignored by advertisers. Facebook has no use for these people, other than filling out the appearance of “Everyone is on Facebook”.

Once you get to the middle class and above, we’re talking about a much larger market share of Apple devices vs Android and those are exactly the demographic that Facebook relies on to make their business work. Cut off from Facebook sign in tracking users on virtually every site, with Safari anti-tracking measures, Facebook gets significantly weaker, unable to get data on those users. They’re an ad company that only works because of the data they can get on potential purchasers. Without that data, they’re not much more than a banner ad server, a tiny part of their revenue.

Add in a Tik Tok acquisition by Apple, and Facebook is in actual trouble.

Apple Has Reportedly Expressed 'Serious Interest' in Purchasing TikTok [Denied]

Apple has expressed interest in purchasing video-sharing social media platform TikTok, according to a newsletter snippet from Axios' Dan...

www.macrumors.com

 

[satcomer]

The REAL problem no one is talking about kids wanted a way to get around their parents. Once parents started using FaceBook to lookup old friends and relatives! Kids found more modern social networking their patents don’t use!

 

[ipedro]

What you propose is impossible. Mac and iOS users are a minority of computer/device users worldwide.

...you were saying?

Facebook raises concerns that iOS 14 could harm its ad business - 9to5Mac

iOS 14 introduces a range of features to let users control which data each app can access, including clipboard notifications...

9to5mac.com

Facebook Chief Financial Officer David Wehner told CNBC today that the company fears that iOS 14 will have a negative impact on how Facebook operates its advertisements. As the company’s revenue comes in large part from advertisements, any attempt to hinder such practice will hurt Facebook’s business.

 

[TrevorR90]

...you were saying?

Facebook raises concerns that iOS 14 could harm its ad business - 9to5Mac

iOS 14 introduces a range of features to let users control which data each app can access, including clipboard notifications...

9to5mac.com

I mean, I’m sure Facebook will notice if ios14 impacts their revenue, but fact is that iOS users and Mac users account for a small percentage of their user base. A Facebook employee will probably get a $900 bonus instead of a $1,000 bonus due to IOS 14 cutting into their profits.

 

[chrfr]

...you were saying?

Facebook raises concerns that iOS 14 could harm its ad business - 9to5Mac

iOS 14 introduces a range of features to let users control which data each app can access, including clipboard notifications...

9to5mac.com

It's a really long way from "might impact ad revenue" to putting Facebook out of business. This will do no such thing to Facebook.

 

[ipedro]

I mean, I’m sure Facebook will notice if ios14 impacts their revenue, but fact is that iOS users and Mac users account for a small percentage of their user base. A Facebook employee will probably get a $900 bonus instead of a $1,000 bonus due to IOS 14 cutting into their profits.

Once again, while Apple accounts for an overall small percentage all smartphones, Apple customers represent an overwhelming majority of spending power.

Advertisers don't care about the nearly 2 billion sub $100 Android phones in the poorest nations in the world. They don't even care about the Android users with more expensive phones who are on the platform to sideload pirated apps, music and movies and don't spend money if they can get away with it. Advertisers are after the demographic who buy iPhones because it's been demonstrated that that demographic clicks on ads and spends money. Apple represents the largest portion of that demographic and it's not even close.

If Facebook loses the ability to sell valuable data to advertisers about that demographic, they can no longer exist in their current form. Apple blocking user tracking and data harvesting, is an existential crisis for Facebook.

 

[Sledneck52]

I deleted my Facebook and all other social media accounts. To much hate and social division.
Bring back MySpace 😂

 

[C DM]

I deleted my Facebook and all other social media accounts. To much hate and social division.
Bring back MySpace 😂

Wouldn't MySpace suffer from the same thing?

 

[Sledneck52]

Wouldn't MySpace suffer from the same thing?

It’s all basically the same.. I was joking about MySpace 😂

 

[MacGizmo]

Over 85% of Apple revenue last quarter was from hardware.

Apple announces record holiday Q1 2020 earnings: revenue of $91.8 billion, more - 9to5Mac

AAPL’s Q1 2020 earnings day is here, covering the lucrative holiday shopping season. For the first fiscal quarter of 2020,...

bit.ly

Not only that, but a large chunk of Apple's "Services" income is also from keeping Google the default search engine. Some claim around 40 billion. Take that away and the numbers are even more lopsided.

 

[Sledneck52]

Facebook is a cesspool of hatred and social division. The MSM is no better.
Tracking is only one of the problems. I personally never thought FB would last as long as it has. Just like the rest.
MySpace, AOL etc..
All the other search engines that have been killed by Google.
The problem is big tech, including Apple but Apple “seems” to have our best interest in hand.
Legislation needs to be put in place to control these companies just like with the telecom wars years ago.
I don’t want my comment to be taken politically even though it has political overtones.
The Netflix show “The Social Dilemma” gives you a small taste of what’s really going on.
It was said in that show and its 100% truth-
People are only called users when it’s
Drug users or social media users. Let that sink in.
🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[ipedro]

Spoiler

duplicate post

 

[ipedro]

Facebook lost $200B in market cap in one day.

They’ve been blaming major financial losses on Apple’s privacy features.

Facebook Stock Tanks, Company Says Apple iOS Privacy Change Will Cost Them $10 Billion This Year

Link to: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/02/facebook-says-apple-ios-privacy-change-will-cost-10-billion-this-year.html

daringfireball.net

Lol @ those in this thread arguing that Apple wasn’t a significant threat to Facebook’s business.

“We believe the impact of iOS overall is a headwind on our business in 2022,” Meta CFO Dave Wehner said on a call with analysts after the company’s fourth-quarter earnings report. “It’s on the order of $10 billion, so it’s a pretty significant headwind for our business.”

The premise of this thread is looking good a couple of years in. Some of the features I had hoped for appeared in iOS 15 such as Shared With You that has begun to Sherlock Facebook’s sharing in the newsfeed feature — its primary feature. I’m looking forward to further social integrations in iOS 16.

 

[KaliYoni]

I dislike Meta and its leadership intensely. But I think Meta is blaming Apple for its dismal results and outlook both as part of its long-standing war with Apple and as a virtually guaranteed way to deflect attention from its bet-the-company gamble on VR/AR. Better that tech media, non-business journalists, "influencers", bloggers, and politicians fixate on look on what Apple has done to us than on Mark's and Sheryl's arrogance, greed, and narcissism.

Fortunately, most of the people who actually matter for Meta's stock price aren't fooled.

 

[QuantumDot]

Hi, I am not very much plugged into what's going on regarding the Apple/Facebook interaction. I only have an extremely intense (borderline psychopathic) disdain for anything social media (Facebook, Instagram, Picturest, Tic Tac, or all that stuff school children and politicians use).

Is there any chance Apple might kill FaceBook like it did with Adobe Flash a decade ago? Or perhaps, just neuter it to the point that people stop having it open in the computer at work, or on their phones at school?

Thanks!

 

[ipedro]

I dislike Meta and its leadership intensely. But I think Meta is blaming Apple for its dismal results and outlook both as part of its long-standing war with Apple and as a virtually guaranteed way to deflect attention from its bet-the-company gamble on VR/AR. Better that tech media, non-business journalists, "influencers", bloggers, and politicians fixate on look on what Apple has done to us than on Mark's and Sheryl's arrogance, greed, and narcissism.

Fortunately, most of the people who actually matter for Meta's stock price aren't fooled.

I can tell you as someone who works with Meta first hand (I buy ads for e-commerce), they truly did take a massive hit caused by iOS’ privacy features that would sink even a large sized company. But Meta is beyond large.

Not to mention that they cannot lie on their investor calls, so they have in fact lost $10B in revenue this quarter as a result of iOS’ privacy features, which amongst other losses snowballed into a record breaking $200B market cap drop — 25% of the company.

Even though my livelihood somewhat depends on it, it’s unfortunately how eCommerce works (for now) and I’m more than happy to reinvent my business sans Facebook ads. I welcome Apple’s privacy features as a consumer and have been adjusting to it as a business.

Is there any chance Apple might kill FaceBook like it did with Adobe Flash a decade ago? Or perhaps, just neuter it to the point that people stop having it open in the computer at work, or on their phones at school?

Facebook is already on its way to being dead. Apple’s privacy features and Sign In With Apple disrupted its entire business plan but pop culture and its unshakable reputation for propagating disinformation is what has been killing it and will kill it. Facebook will not exist in a few years, if not much sooner.

Meta as a company is too large and diversified to collapse after the failure of that one product. Instagram isn’t going anywhere and Messenger + WhatsApp will continue well after Facebook is dead.

People aren’t going to stop looking down at their phones as long as smartphones exist. I think AR will somewhat solve that with people looking out to the world and instead seeing useful bits of information superimposed on the world. AR glasses with other wearable tech will complete the melding of the internet into the world around us, which I believe will take us out of this perpetual down stare that we see around since the smartphone emerged.

 

[KaliYoni]

Not to mention that they cannot lie on their investor calls

It's true public companies aren't supposed to lie about their financials but, believe me, it is not difficult to attribute negative developments to whatever a company desires or to redirect attention to something external. In fact, it's commonplace. Further, restatements of results and actions a few quarters after they were first reported happen all too frequently.

 

[wonderings]

Don't see how Apple would be any better then Facebook if they replaced them Neither of these companies are charities or non profits. Their goals are to make money. Both may talk self righteously but need of the day they are in it to make money, lots of it. I don't believe Apple is doing anything out of the good of their heart for the consumer, they mike good stuff and charge a lot for it leaving it inaccessible for many people not able to afford the Apple tax. Nothing wrong with them making money, not attacking them for that, but I think thinking Apple would somehow be a good corporation is a little naive.

 

[QuantumDot]

Don't see how Apple would be any better then Facebook if they replaced them Neither of these companies are charities or non profits. Their goals are to make money. Both may talk self righteously but need of the day they are in it to make money, lots of it. I don't believe Apple is doing anything out of the good of their heart for the consumer, they mike good stuff and charge a lot for it leaving it inaccessible for many people not able to afford the Apple tax. Nothing wrong with them making money, not attacking them for that, but I think thinking Apple would somehow be a good corporation is a little naive.

I don't think anyone really thinks either company runs their business as a charity in any way. I think people simply see a company more favorably if it adopts business practices they perceive to be less dirty. At the moment, I am extremely disdainful of FaceBook.

 

[wonderings]

I don't think anyone really thinks either company runs their business as a charity in any way. I think people simply see a company more favorably if it adopts business practices they perceive to be less dirty. At the moment, I am extremely disdainful of FaceBook.

I would not put my trust in either company. Both are in it to make money, if Apple replaced Facebook with similar features you can bet they will want to make money from it as well. I don't see either being less dirty then the other, they are in different fields at the moment as Apple is heavy hardware wise whereas Facebook is pretty light in the hardware department. If Apple had a Facebook like eco system of everything together they would be harvesting data like Facebook to make it profitable, that or charge a fee to use it and I can't see any major social media platform taking off if it costs money.