How can Apple sell a Mac with 8GB of RAM in 2023 and call it "Pro"

[hans1972]

Have you really try running VM with 8gb in Apple silicone? I did and found its not feasible to work on it.

Remember, we’re talking “PRO” machine that can’t even run VM.

Both on Intel and M1.

On Intel, I have been running Windows virtual machines since 2010. Even on a 11" MacBook Air with 4Gb of RAM. I was able to even run two Windows virtual machines at the same time but it required some tweaking to Windows and giving the VMs less than 2Gb of RAM combined.

Almost all versions of Windows do well with low memory, much better than macOS.

I tested it on a base model of M1 Air before buying a M2 Air. Parallels with Windows 11 and giving it 1 vCPU and 2Gb of RAM. It's an Eclipse based (JAVA) environment. It's performance bottle necks are probably random read and writes to the file system.

Much, much faster than ton a 2018 MacBook Air with 16Gb of RAM, although being VMware Fusion with Windows 7.

 

[redheeler]

It triggers my perfectionism to see Apple get so close to releasing a good base model Mac, only to horribly cripple it in one specific and easy to overlook way. In Tim Cook's Apple it happens over and over again. Usually it's related to the RAM or storage as those upgrades have massive margins for Apple.

 

[mode11]

Dell's XPS 13 isn't a normal laptop? Both memory and SSD soldered down, and 8GB options on the low end. Think it's stupid there too, but certainly not specific to Apple.

The XPS range are Dell's 'nice' laptops. And neither RAM or SSDs are soldered - you can get upgrades for both on Crucial.com - https://www.crucial.com/compatible-upgrade-for/dell/xps-15.

Edit - you're right about the 13" Dell XPS. The 14" Precision mobile workstations are fully upgradeable though, and generally start at 16GB - https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/lap...3480-laptop/s026p3480ukie_vp#features_section.

The Apple machines are admittedly much nicer though.

 

[hans1972]

I would expect the PRO has higher spec than Air (so it can run much more workload than Air).

I don't expect any MacBook Pro to have better specs than Air when it comes to SoC, memory or SSD.

I do expect it to be more expensive, heavier and usually bigger in volume.

 

[mode11]

It triggers my perfectionism to see Apple get so close to releasing a good base model Mac, only to horribly cripple it in one specific and easy to overlook way. In Tim Cook's Apple it happens over and over again. Usually it's related to the RAM or storage as those upgrades have massive margins for Apple.

To be fair, this has been the case going back as long as I've paid attention to Apple (late 90's). The bottom model is usually crippled in some way.

 

[Konrad]

LMAO

Euros. I couldn't give a F what you chaps on the wrong side of the pond pay or what weird currency you use.

Also, the Max Tech brothers are hyperbolic idiots. I'd listen to them for technical tests as much as I'd listen to Mary Poppins for advice on how to circumvent gravity as both are based in fiction.

One day, when you finally get a passport you may give your proverbial, American boorish F. But then again, statistically it is unlikely. On your side of the pond, to travel much..

 

[redheeler]

To be fair, this has been the case going back as long as I've paid attention to Apple (late 90's). The bottom model is usually crippled in some way.

It has been the case at some points in the past too, but compared to something like the mid 2010 base model 13" MacBook Pro this doesn't look very favorable. And even if you weren't happy with the RAM or storage in the base model you could upgrade it yourself and still have a computer that lasts many years.

 

[dmr727]

And sure - there's plenty of laptops that have 8GB at the bottom end, but they tend not to cost (anything like) £1500.

That's definitely true. I hate the situation as much as anyone and would love to vote with my wallet, but I'm having a hard time finding a smaller (14 inch or less) premium laptop on the PC side that's compelling enough to switch.

 

[redheeler]

That's definitely true. I hate the situation as much as anyone and would love to vote with my wallet, but I'm having a hard time finding a smaller (14 inch or less) premium laptop on the PC side that's compelling enough to switch.

I’ve made the decision to eventually transition over to the Linux ecosystem with something like a Framework. If I don’t like my system specs my time is spent more productively changing them instead of complaining about being SOL on a forum. I’ll be replacing my desktop first though.

 

[OrenLindsey]

I’ve made the decision to eventually transition over to the Linux ecosystem with something like a Framework. If I don’t like my system specs my time is spent more productively changing them instead of complaining about being SOL on a forum. I’ll be replacing my desktop first though.

The Framework laptop 16 is actually a good competitor to the MacBook Pro, (except it has a worse GPU even with the GPU package and doesn't run MacOS). I would get it if I weren't an Apple person.
Edit: Oh, and it doesn't even compare to the Mx Max chips. Only the Pro chips.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I’m tempted to start selling something because I’ve come to realize consumers like to get ripped off.

Someone buying the base model doesn’t equate to said person being ripped off.

 

[redheeler]

The Framework laptop 16 is actually a good competitor to the MacBook Pro, (except it has a worse GPU even with the GPU package and doesn't run MacOS). I would get it if I weren't an Apple person.
Edit: Oh, and it doesn't even compare to the Mx Max chips. Only the Pro chips.

My biggest issue with switching away from Mac is that the rest of the PC world is embarrassingly behind Apple when it comes to display quality. I’m looking at getting a board to convert my 5K iMac to a standalone display because it’s still basically impossible to find a good standalone 5K display.

 

[mode11]

That's definitely true. I hate the situation as much as anyone and would love to vote with my wallet, but I'm having a hard time finding a smaller (14 inch or less) premium laptop on the PC side that's compelling enough to switch.

Lenovo X1 Carbon? Razer Blade 14? XPS 13? TBH though, Apple laptops are pretty cool. Less convinced by the desktops personally.

 

[OrenLindsey]

My biggest issue with switching away from Mac is that the rest of the PC world is embarrassingly behind Apple when it comes to display quality. I’m looking at getting a board to convert my 5K iMac to a standalone display because it’s still basically impossible to find a good standalone 5K display.

The Framework has an OK screen (it's 144hz, 1440p LCD) but yeah, definitely not as good as the MacBook Pro screen. However, the screen is upgradeable so if they come out with a better panel you can put it in.

 

[nathansz]

Is anyone under the impression that Apple is a value brand?

That’s sort of the point isn’t it. They are selling “value” hardware specs at premium prices

 

[NT1440]

That’s sort of the point isn’t it. They are selling “value” hardware specs at premium prices

And they’re more performant as an SoC than simply speccing a laptop with the same individual components.

They get that performance even when truly portable and *unplugged* with astonishing battery life.

That doesn’t factor in the displays which are almost impossible to find an equivalent to.

You personally may not care about the quality of life refinements that make a Mac a Mac, but they are very much more than the mere sum of the “equivalent” parts out there on the market.

If you’re fine with the compromises other vendors do to focus on pure performance, that’s great, but that instead.

Some of us acknowledge that there simply isn’t an all around equal to Macs on the market today that aren’t equivalently priced.

I love my work X13 with its AMD chip, but it doesn’t measure up to a MacBook’s screen (this is the higher end with 1600x1200 resolution) and battery life.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This. Power users were always the target audience. Apple has abandoned that market.

I think this is unarguably the case. Apple has always found “power users” to be a difficult group to deal with. Power Users want “more of the same, just faster”. Many power users were VERY unhappy about OSX because their power user knowledge of OS9 just went out the window and now they’d have to learn something new. The lion’s share of Apple’s revenue now comes from everywhere else, as the Mac only makes up a small slice of revenue. And even of that slice, 80% of them are mobile systems.

They don’t even depend on these folks talking others into buying Macs anymore, there’s a store in high median income areas all over the place. Anyone wanting to know about Macs can find TONS of information online, both official and unofficial. Apple’s not bothered that there are power users that haven’t bought macs in years, they’ve got enough folks that are new to Apple that has replaced them. If a power user finds something they like in Apple’s lineup, it’s not because Apple’s trying hard to placate them!

 

[Altis]

No, you shouldn't be allowed. It gets boring after a while when it happens every time Apple release a new Mac.

Peak AAPL posting here -- people should not be allowed to discuss Apple product lines in an Apple rumor forum, according to you? Pro tip: The thread title makes it clear what's being discussed -- if it bores you, you don't actually have to reply in it.

What are we allowed to discuss? How incredible and amazing and magical the M3 is, even though it's trivial to all the users who can get by on 8 GB of RAM?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I’m still using my maxed out 2019 15inch MBP. Won’t give it up until they stop skimping out on RAM like dumb idiots.

Well, that makes sense. If someone’s performance and feature needs are met with a 2019 system, I really don’t see why they’d even be interested in one of today’s systems, either.

 

[nathansz]

And they’re more performant as an SoC than simply speccing a laptop with the same individual components.

They get that performance even when truly portable and *unplugged* with astonishing battery life.

That doesn’t factor in the displays which are almost impossible to find an equivalent to.

You personally may not care about the quality of life refinements that make a Mac a Mac, but they are very much more than the mere sum of the “equivalent” parts out there on the market.

If you’re fine with the compromises other vendors do to focus on pure performance, that’s great, but that instead.

Some of us acknowledge that there simply isn’t an all around equal to Macs on the market today that aren’t equivalently priced.

I love my work X13 with its AMD chip, but it doesn’t measure up to a MacBook’s screen (this is the higher end with 1600x1200 resolution) and battery life.

They may be slightly more performant in some ways, but 8GB/256GB is still ridiculously low for the price

And 8GB of apple silicon ram does not equate to 64GB of x86 ram, which was my original point

 

[Unregistered 4U]

so it's an obvious sign of disrespect aimed at you.

I’m quite sure that many folks do see this as a disrespect aimed directly at them. After Apple’s ending of FCP7 (or iWeb, or MobileMe, or iDVD, or AirPort base stations) which was also direct affront to them, this 8GB thing was the last straw…

 

[Apple_Robert]

It triggers my perfectionism to see Apple get so close to releasing a good base model Mac, only to horribly cripple it in one specific and easy to overlook way. In Tim Cook's Apple it happens over and over again. Usually it's related to the RAM or storage as those upgrades have massive margins for Apple.

Just because the base model doesn't meet your needs, that doesn't mean the base model is crippled; it isn't crippled.

 

[NT1440]

My biggest issue with switching away from Mac is that the rest of the PC world is embarrassingly behind Apple when it comes to display quality. I’m looking at getting a board to convert my 5K iMac to a standalone display because it’s still basically impossible to find a good standalone 5K display.

It’s weird isn’t it? Even the 4K displays out there aren’t standard.

As much as people get up in arms about 8GB of RAM, I don’t understand why the PC world isn’t up in arms about 1080p still being the norm.

There’s diminishing returns beyond that, but the jump past 1080p is plainly evident and an improvement for all users, even if used just to make text sharper.

 

[Altis]

It’s weird isn’t it? Even the 4K displays out there aren’t standard.

As much as people get up in arms about 8GB of RAM, I don’t understand why the PC world isn’t up in arms about 1080p still being the norm.

There’s diminishing returns beyond that, but the jump past 1080p is plainly evident and an improvement for all users, even if used just to make text sharper.

For laptops, 1080p is quite sharp so long as subpixel rendering is enabled. Since Apple disabled it, 1080p looks awful on macOS. My old 2010 17" MBP was only 1920x1200 but looks great on Windows/Linux, just not macOS.

But it still seems like it's mostly cheap PC laptops that have 1080p anyways. For desktop, 1440p/4k are the norm and aren't expensive ($200-300 for 27" 4k IPS displays).

While I love the 5k Apple display, I'm fully aware that 5k only exists because of Apple's janky scaling that requires integer-mulitples of their base resolutions. 75% more pixels than 4k for a very slight increase is perceived resolution is hardly worth it if Apple could be bothered to have better scaling. Same with their 4.5k display in the 24" iMac.

 

[reklex]

Someone buying the base model doesn’t equate to said person being ripped off.

for 8GB RAM, €1945 in 2024? yes it is.