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How can Apple sell a Mac with 8GB of RAM in 2023 and call it "Pro"
- Thread starter parseckadet
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As always, absolute statements are seldom accurate.
There is an almost infinite variation in usage patterns, so blanket statements will never be applicable to all people.
1) MacOS will run very well in 8GB RAM, without using any swap disk, for the kind of modest tasks that a large majority of computer users need. This includes web-browsing (up to say, 20 Safari tabs on typical web-sites), messaging/chats, e-mail, video conferencing, and light programming tasks.
2) If you push it a bit harder, for example with light photo and video editing, you will probably start to use some swap memory, but this can generally be managed by closing down unused applications, and understanding the limitations of the tasks that are possible on the machine.
3) If you use applications whose minimum requirements are close to or exceed your machine's specification, then you are likely to run into resource issues if you need to multi-task with other apps.
An awful lot of people don't need (2) or (3), and will be just fine with 8GB.
Personally, I use a 32GB M1 Max laptop, because I understand my own usage and have been using macOS for nearly 20 years. That said, I just bought a family member a new M2 MacBook Air and chose 8GB/512GB for them; why? because I know that they will probably only have 2 or 3 browser tabs open, play Spotify, and look at (but not edit) some photos and videos. I check out their memory usage when I visit, and have never seen *any* usage of swap memory. 8GB is clearly sufficient, and the correct choice (not over-specifying) for this use case.
Your usage will no doubt be different. You should choose the specification that suits your needs. And just **** about telling anyone else what they *need* when you have no idea.
Anyone think this guy even possesses a passport? It's scary to read such posts.
Everything basically starts to lock up and become super slow - you can check in activity viewer when the memory pressure hits orange or red
If you want to discuss it as an industry problem, I will be right there with you. Microsoft, Lenovo, Dell, HP, etc they all do this. You can find an 8GB and sometimes even 128GB of SSD still systems for around $900.
But the INSANE hatred Apple gets for this is just ridiculous. Let's discuss it for what it is....and industry problem. And if 99% of the entire industry can get away with $1,000 devices (some are even $2,000!!) with 8GB of RAM and 256GB SSD, then Apple won't be a charity here.
For me 64GB is not enough anymore. So we just shouldn't sell any computers less than 96GB.
The biggest difference is that the majority have windows laptops are fully or partially upgradeable with industry standard parts. You gotta sell your Mac system if you find out you skimped on ram. Which I’m now on planning to do with my wife’s mba once the m3 version comes out. (What’s frustrating is that Apple resellers that tend to have much better discounts than Apple Store 99% of the time tend to only sell the stock models and not BTO so you’re forced to pay more)
My wife hits the 8gb limit on her mba m1 with regular day to day use as a realtor. I assumed she would be fine with 8, but I didn’t realize how many browser tabs she keeps open while showing clients and her mba will start to beachball and become slow. “Honey, I thought you said the new Apple “brain” is a lot better than the Intel one?” She had a 2016 MacBook Pro 13 with 16gb previously and I bought into the apple silicon 8gb memory is better than Intel 16gb memory hype when these were first released.
Lol, I hope you are sarcastic. A laptop of 2000 euro would hit swap while just doing some browsing. And that is okay for some people. Some here really like being within the Apple distortion field.
And by the way, the base M3 MBP is already on sale: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...or-discounts-at-up-to-200-off-update.2409746/ those 8GB must be selling well….Again: nobody wants those gimped mbps.
Then frame the conversation about upgradability instead of "no pro computer should SELL at 8GB of RAM and 256GB of SSD". Upgradeability is not part of the conversation because a LOT of the industry is "selling" at those same specs.
This.
The issue is that Apple laptops have low base RAM / storage, are very expensive to spec up at purchase, and you have no opportunity to add either later. Sure, the pragmatic solution for many is to just buy the base model, then keep an eye on how many tabs they have open / the size of their photo library etc., but it isn't ideal.
Ultimately, Apple products are expensive. Its just up to the individual to decide whether they represent good value or not (taking into account resale value too).
Of course upgradeability is part of the conversation. If MacBooks were upgradeable, this conversation would be moot. If Apple still insisted on massively overcharging for upgrades, you'd just take a trip to crucial.com after ordering a base laptop.
It's not just that Apple charges extortionate upgrade prices, it also prevents you from taking advantage of continually falling RAM / SSD prices by upgrading later. Plus, you have to guess your needs potentially years down the line, which is difficult, so there's an incentive to over-spec. Apple knows all of this, of course, which is why they do it.
Thank you so much for the detailed answer. I loved the insight.
How can Apple sell a Mac with 8GB of RAM in 2023 and call it "Pro"
The answer is: because they can™.
IMO, they can crank up the entry price of the basic Macbook Pros with 8 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD to 5000 and you will still find naive people who will buy it. Even if they have to take out a loan or sell a kidney.
How can Apple sell a Mac with 8GB of RAM in 2023 and call it "Pro"
That is the topic at hand. NOT "Why aren't Apple computers upgradeable". Its SELL. Lenovo, Dell, HP also SELL "Pro" systems with 8GB and 256GB of storage.
Also, Microsoft Surface devices are NOT easily upgradeable.
Also, performing RAM and SSD upgrades isn't necessarily a "pro" thing. Its enthusiasts. More gamers are likely to upgrade their computer than a professional. When you are stick with buying 50 laptops all $2,000 each that come with 8GB of RAM and 256GB of SSD, you don't buy those and plan to upgrade the RAM immediately. And most businesses I have worked at and most of my clients now have a strict "no upgrade" policy as it makes support exponentially more difficult. Many of them have the SAME SYSTEM in storage, usually 5-10 of them on hand to swap out a faulty system at any moment.
And when you are dealing with the $8,000+ per unit costs for 50 or 100 of them, you have that in the IT budget and mark that as a capital expense. You plan for the next 3-5 years whenever your upgrade cycle is and expect RAM and storage growth AT PURCHASE time. It's easier for budgeting and financing. Upgrading RAM immediately or a year later makes things exponentially more difficult in so many ways.
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No-one's asking why Apple computers aren't upgradeable; the answer to that one is obvious.
Which 'Pro' Dell system comes with 8GB of RAM? Taking a quick look on the Dell site for roughly comparable machines, a 13" / i7-1250U XPS for £1050 comes with 16GB RAM; a 15.6" / i7-13700H / RTX 4050 XPS for £1500 also comes with 16GB - https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops-2-in-1-pcs/sr/laptops/xps?appliedRefinements=37868. And both have 512GB SSDs, for the record.
Any 8GB 'Pro' machine is an insult; it would just be less consequential if the RAM could be upgraded after the fact, as with any normal laptop (apart from your cherry-picked Surface).
Those people who complains about the base configuration without mentioning the price. If price is important why not say something like this instead
"I want the base model to come with 16Gb of RAM and be $200 cheaper". ?
Dell's XPS 13 isn't a normal laptop? Both memory and SSD soldered down, and 8GB options on the low end. Think it's stupid there too, but certainly not specific to Apple.
dmr727 already pointed it out.
Yep! And Lenovo and HP. Like I said, let's have this discussion for the IT industry not just Apple please.
I have posted examples on dozens of these threads. Just spend 5 minutes googling and you can find all your answers as to "What products have 8GB of RAM?"
Look I don't think anyone would deny wanting to spend less for more. But these rants are getting far too ridiculous. I would certainly like NVIDIA GPUs to be affordable again, not $1,700 for the 4090. Who would say "Nah" to get a Mac Pro with 192GB of RAM for only $3,000? But honestly, if the price of the RAM upgrade is too much for you, you shouldn't be buying these products anyway. I make up what I spent and more on TWO Ultra Mac Studios MAXED in one month.
This is why I say I bet most of the complaining is from enthusiasts and not big professionals. By the time I need to upgrade my RAM it is best to buy a whole new computer. It will help in dozens of more ways than more RAM alone would do. Like I said, I fell into this trap with the 2010 Mac Pro I kept that going WAY TOO LONG and my 2019 i9 iMac even with the same RAM amount was LEAGUES faster. And just to see what I was missing out on, I tried out a colleague's 2016 15" MacBook Pro and that was faster than my 2010 Mac Pro too. And that had LESS RAM!
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No, you shouldn't be allowed. It gets boring after a while when it happens every time Apple release a new Mac.
It's been happening for decades. I didn't start browsing these forums regularly until the Intel days, but even the PPC days I heard just complaints about it.
Almost everything I buy, is because it provides value, i.e. it's worth it.
If something is worth it, then it isn't unreasonable.
You seem to divide a Mac into its parts instead and trying to calculate the marginal price of getting extra parts. You'll be a very unhappy Apple customer when you do this.
I just look at the whole, consider the value and the price for the Mac I want or need, and buys it or not.
Makes me a much happier Apple customer than you.