How do you feel about using Google services?

[Alrescha]

You really dont think apple gets the information from the phone?

1) They have said explicitly that they do not. I have no reason to disbelieve them.

2) It is consistent with their behavior:

Apple is fiercely protective of its users's personal data. e.g.: Apple comes under fire from advertisers because they refuse to give them personal information about their users (and regardless of how some folks would like to spin it, the fact remains that Apple is very protective of your personal information).

3) Unlike Google, you are not Apple's product. You are Apple's customer. You are the entity that Apple wants to please. When Google collects information to 'improve its product', that means its ability to sell you. When Apple collects information to improve its product, that means it want to make you happier. Some people like to claim that those two things are the same.

A.

 

[gotluck]

1) They have said explicitly that they do not. I have no reason to disbelieve them.

2) It is consistent with their behavior:

Apple is fiercely protective of its users's personal data. e.g.: Apple comes under fire from advertisers because they refuse to give them personal information about their users (and regardless of how some folks would like to spin it, the fact remains that Apple is very protective of your personal information).

3) Unlike Google, you are not Apple's product. You are Apple's customer. You are the entity that Apple wants to please. When Google collects information to 'improve its product', that means its ability to sell you. When Apple collects information to improve its product, that means it want to make you happier. Some people like to claim that those two things are the same.

A.

Apple sells ads too though. Like said before, they just aren't as good at it. I just have to be cynical and believe that apple strives for that model as well.

 

[Alrescha]

Apple sells ads too though. I just have to be cynical and believe that apple strives for that model as well.

Yes, they do. As a small sideline. It is Google's raison d'être. To attempt to equate them is ridiculous.

Given my experience with Apple, I could easily believe that they 1) realized that someone was going to sell ads, and 2) decided that they should be the ones to do it - solely to better protect their customer's privacy. It would not be the first time Apple had a service that they were happy to run as a break-even business in order to make their customer's experience better.

A.

 

[gotluck]

Yes, they do. As a small sideline. It is Google's raison d'être. To attempt to equate them is ridiculous.

Given my experience with Apple, I could easily believe that they 1) realized that someone was going to sell ads, and 2) decided that they should be the ones to do it - solely to better protect their customer's privacy. It would not be the first time Apple had a service that they were happy to run as a break-even business in order to make their customer's experience better.

A.

Heh, that is very idealistic of you

 

[2984839]

Privacy reasons are why I don't use Google services. I have blocked internet access for most of the Google stuff on my Galaxy S3 and removed all the Google software I could while keeping the phone functional. I don't use Google for searching, email, or anything else.

That said, I don't consider Google any worse than Microsoft, Apple, Verizon, Facebook, or other companies. If anything, I favor Google a little more since Android is open source.

 

[kdarling]

For me the ads are not useful, they are meant as a barrage. I go to Grainger and look up a Allen wrench. Now for the next two weeks a 3rd of the websites I go to are going to have a picture of an Allen wrench on the web site.

Yeah, the search-ad memory drives everyone crazy. However, it's just proof to me that they don't really know that much about us.

I don't know the whole thing is a little creepy but Apple is doing the same sort of stuff now.

Ironically, when I was growing up, we dreamed about a future where artificial companions knew what we wanted and needed ahead of time.

Apple is fiercely protective of its users's personal data. e.g.: Apple comes under fire from advertisers because they refuse to give them personal information about their users (and regardless of how some folks would like to spin it, the fact remains that Apple is very protective of your personal information).

Google is also very protective of your personal information. That's how they and Apple make money selling anonymous ad spots. They have the info; they don't give it out.

As for the advertiser complaints, that was not about sharing personal information. That was about Apple not being willing to share demographics about their ad audience. This is normal information. Advertisers would like to know what groups they should target. E.g. what are the types of games that most iOS users like? Without such information, advertisers are flying blind. Doesn't help either them or the viewer.

When Google collects information to 'improve its product', that means its ability to sell you. When Apple collects information to improve its product, that means it want to make you happier. Some people like to claim that those two things are the same.

When Apple uses its inside information on us to sell iAds, it IS the same thing. They're selling us as an ad target. It has NOTHING to do with collecting information to improve the product it's being viewed on.

 

[mib1800]

Your privacy is already gone or in jeopardy once you are connected to the Internet or use a cellular network. That's a fact of life.

I am not afraid of Google because it existed as an legal business entity. If they don't profess what they have stated then they can get into trouble.

If you like your privacy then you should be more worry about those clandestine entities or hackers or closed eco systems like apple where the general comunity cannot easily peek into or audit what they are doing.

 

[mclld]

It would be nice if people would put as much effort into denouncing the trampling of the constitution by the US government as they do with faux outrage of tech companies

 

[gotluck]

It would be nice if people would put as much effort into denouncing the trampling of the constitution by the US government as they do with faux outrage of tech companies

Indeed my friend.

 

[kevinof]

This is just laughable. Ask any apple sales person or product manager and they ONLY thing they are focussed on is getting you to buy more apple product. That's the bottom line. That's what the company (like every other one) is all about and it's what the shareholders expect. Nothing less.

To think or believe for one second that any listed corporation puts your interests (making you happier?) ahead of making a profit from you is just being silly.

Remember Apple is great at marketing and always has been. Jobs was a great marketeer who got you to want something Apple didn't yet have, pay more for it than you would really want to and still be happy about it. Ask any marketing person, including Apple, what they do and they will say "smoke and mirrors" and you need to see through the smoke to see what they really want from you.

Apple, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Pepsi, Coca Cola , GM et all are all the same. You are the product and it doesn't matter whether you buying a piece of hardware, a soda or an online service.

1) ...

3) Unlike Google, you are not Apple's product. You are Apple's customer. You are the entity that Apple wants to please. When Google collects information to 'improve its product', that means its ability to sell you. When Apple collects information to improve its product, that means it want to make you happier. Some people like to claim that those two things are the same.

A.

 

[Oohara]

I don't care about the privacy issues. Let's face reality here - all these companies can read our stuff if they want to, no matter what they write in their agreements and statements, honestly there's no way to keep tabs on it all. It's simply the price of the online society. I keep my nose clean, they can peek all they want.

What really gets me though is advertising invading what feels like my private zone - my email. Spam is one thing but if the service itself puts the ads there, then things are starting to feel a bit cheap.

I'm wondering if we'll see a new market consisting of companies offering services free of precisely all these invasive marketing and information collecting strategies. Something akin to "eco" food - pay a bit to get clean, honest stuff. Hell, I'd go for it. 10$ a month for a Facebook without all the ad ********, and 10$ for an email service that doesn't sneak in fake messages about what shampoo to buy - I'm there, dude.

 

[Savor]

The only thing I hate what Google did this year was stop VOIP support for Google Voice using apps like Talkatone. I really loved Talkatone back in late-2011 to early-2012. It got a bit worse after some updates but it had clearer reception than Viber. Plus, I can call anyone in the US as long as I had Wi-Fi. With Viber, the other person needs the Viber app as well. Speaking on Viber sounded like the other line was speaking from a tin can with strings.

Oh well, Viber makes an ok replacement over Talkatone for voice but a better alternative for me over WhatsApp for SMS and MMS.

 

[gotluck]

I don't care about the privacy issues. Let's face reality here - all these companies can read our stuff if they want to, no matter what they write in their agreements and statements, honestly there's no way to keep tabs on it all. It's simply the price of the online society. I keep my nose clean, they can peek all they want.

What really gets me though is advertising invading what feels like my private zone - my email. Spam is one thing but if the service itself puts the ads there, then things are starting to feel a bit cheap.

I'm wondering if we'll see a new market consisting of companies offering services free of precisely all these invasive marketing and information collecting strategies. Something akin to "eco" food - pay a bit to get clean, honest stuff. Hell, I'd go for it. 10$ a month for a Facebook without all the ad ********, and 10$ for an email service that doesn't sneak in fake messages about what shampoo to buy - I'm there, dude.

Well there are adblockers
I realize this is something we shouldn't talk about because it will eventually ruin the party but I never see any ads.
Adblocker on desktop is simple enough
A large part of the reason I'm so insistent on root access on mobile is to block ads. Saves processing power, bandwidth, battery, and no distractions.

I realize that the only reason these services exist is because everyone does not use adblockers, so I should pipe down and it is arguably immoral

I do like your premium idea.

 

[Alrescha]

This is just laughable. Ask any apple sales person or product manager and they ONLY thing they are focussed on is getting you to buy more apple product. That's the bottom line. That's what the company (like every other one) is all about and it's what the shareholders expect. Nothing less.

To think or believe for one second that any listed corporation puts your interests (making you happier?) ahead of making a profit from you is just being silly.

Why do you think these two things are mutually exclusive? Of course Apple wants to sell more product. They way they do that is to make their products better (making the customer happy). Sure they are good at marketing - their most successful advertisement was probably for the original iPhone, and all they had to do was show people how it worked. Genius.

Apple has publicly disagreed with the wishes of their shareholders, and done so repeatedly. Obviously pleasing the shareholders is not the only thing on their mind.

What might be laughable is that people equate Google advertising (it's entire business model) with Apple advertising (a tiny sideline).

A.

 

[gotluck]

What might be laughable is that people equate Google advertising (it's entire business model) with Apple advertising (a tiny sideline).

A.

Well, we will never really know. Due to the nature of the relationship, consumers just have to trust them. They could be doing anything.

I maintain that Apple is jealous of Google ad sales and would gladly have that business model too. As google is jealous and would gladly have Apple's hardware sales.

 

[Alrescha]

Well, we will never really know.

We do know some things. We know that 95% of Google's revenue is advertising. That is what they are - an advertising company. We know that most of Apple's revenue is hardware sales. See: http://www.zdnet.com/apple-google-microsoft-where-does-the-money-come-from-7000026043


Google's customers are other companies who want to advertise to us.

Apple's customers are people, people who buy their stuff. It is those people they need to please in order to sell more product. Not anyone else.

You can place your trust wherever you choose.

A.

 

[gotluck]

If they weren't good at making the stuff that leads to showing ads, how would they sell any ads?

Just disagree with calling them an advertising company. That's just how they monetized.

 

[burgman]

It would be nice if people would put as much effort into denouncing the trampling of the constitution by the US government as they do with faux outrage of tech companies

Rant without substance

 

[VulchR]

I don't like Google's products, and their use of my personal information concerns me. Apple's does not. I compare my internet experience with those who use Google. I get about one-fifth of the nonsense ads/spam etc. that my friends who use Google services do. I see Apple trying to increase my privacy while Google is trying to encroach on it.

I don't mind paying to avoid Google's intrusions. Of course, other people are perfectly fine with Google, and therefore why not use free services? It just depends what you value.

 

[kdarling]

Google's customers are other companies who want to advertise to us.

Apple's customers are people, people who buy their stuff.

You're confusing Apple's hardware customers and Apple's iAds customers. They are not the same.

Apple's hardware customers are people who buy their stuff.

Apple's iAds customers are other companies who want to advertise to us.

 

[Alrescha]

You're confusing Apple's hardware customers and Apple's iAds customers.

Please do not omit the relevant parts of my post and then try to claim I am confused. It really puts you in a bad light, one way or another.

A.

 

[Lloydbm41]

What might be laughable is that people equate Google advertising (it's entire business model) with Apple advertising (a tiny sideline).

A.

Actually, people don't. And developers def don't! Just like people don't equate Apple Maps to Googles maps.

But if you think iAds (soon iBeacon) is just a tiny sideline, you'd be mistaken. iAds is, and has been, a huge growth industry. In 2012, revenue for all ads was $630 million. Google had 24% of that pie and Apple had 15%. That revenue ballooned to 1.7 billion in 2013 and that is expected to jump to 3 billion this year. Apple recognizes the money that can be made here, hence iBeacon was created. Apple will allow retail outlets to bombard you with advertising and coupons. Ka-ching ka-ching.

 

[ugahairydawgs]

I use Google search, but that's about it. I don't have an active account and don't store any data with them. As soon as a better option for search comes along (Bimg is getting there) I will cut the cord completely.

Just have no inherent trust for a company with a business model like Google.

 

[0dev]

Im just curious, I'm wanting to try out google's ecosystem, but I don't know why I get the impression I shouldn't trust them. I guess its just me being over protective with myself, but things like google now telling you information before hand is very convenient; however, it gives me the vibe of Big Brother. Can somebody give me some insight about the whole google experience and make me more comfortable with their platform.

I don't trust them with anything I don't mind having mined not only by Google but by the NSA and similar organisations involved in the Five Eyes.

This means I keep crap like Google Now turned off and I only use GMail for forum registrations. I go into the Google privacy settings and turn every tracking option off and use DuckDuckGo for the vast majority of my searches anyway.

On my Android phone I use CyanogenMod so I know I'm using a fully open source version of Android without backdoors in it.

 

[gotluck]

I dont want to get all conspiracy theory here, but I bet there are backdoors in all cellphone radio firmware / baseband
Apple, android, you name it

If the entity has access to the particular cell company you are using, they can own your phone too I'd wager. That's not to say you aren't protecting yourself from backdoors in the ROM itself though