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How many Macs do you own BESIDES your notebook?
- Thread starter Joeytpg
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I am the proud owner of a 24" iMac with all the trimmings, and the new owner of a 17" C2D MBP courtesy of my work. And at my work I also work with a G4 800mhz iMac, and a 1ghz G4 eMac.
And all of them have given me a long run of trouble free computing. I became a switcher in Sept of last year!
And all of them have given me a long run of trouble free computing. I became a switcher in Sept of last year!
I currently have a Dual-core 2.0 PowerMac G5 in addition to my 1 Ghz iBook G4. I couldn't do without either, I need them both for my freelance work. They both have their functions.
The are not all Macs, but all Apple:
Apple IIe
Apple IIc
Apple IIgs Woz Signature
PowerMac G3 233 MHz
PowerBook G4 12" 1.33 GHz
PowerMac G5 1.8 GHz w/ 23" LCD Cinema Display
MacBook C2D 2.0 GHz
The last three are regularly used.
Apple IIe
Apple IIc
Apple IIgs Woz Signature
PowerMac G3 233 MHz
PowerBook G4 12" 1.33 GHz
PowerMac G5 1.8 GHz w/ 23" LCD Cinema Display
MacBook C2D 2.0 GHz
The last three are regularly used.
What do you do for a living? Your profiles says Electronic Engineer. So of course you wouldn't have a need for much in the way of computing and one system with a few apps would cover your needs.
By comparison, I do nearly anything and everything you can do with computers. I service Macs (any and all models), consult on hardware and software solutions for users of the Mac platform (solutions aren't restricted to new hardware or software), web and graphic design and software training.
Lets look at what I use my main systems for and how much I've spent on them...
- PowerMac G4 Sawtooth My newest system (acquired last December) is used for web design, graphic design, video editing and 3D modeling. I have invested about $230 in this system... which included all upgrades from it's original stock configuration and getting an upgrade to the Adobe Creative Suite Pro.
- Beige G3 MiniTower Former top system was put together about 16 months ago at a total cost of $0. Currently acts as a secondary system for doing work while the G4 is processing large tasks... or for watching DVDs and playing iTunes.
- PowerBook G3 Wallstreet Has been my main system since 2001 with a total investment of about $700 since then (never more than $300 in any one year period). This is the system I do all my writing on, browsing the internet on, and e-mail from. I spend more hours sitting at this system than any other that I own.
- PowerMac 8100av This was my former main Classic Mac OS system, and is still part of my active network because I haven't fully transitioned everything to the 8600 I got to replace it. This system has cost me a total of $0 since I got it back in 2003.
- PowerMac 8600 (Mac OS 8.6) I paid a total of about $35 for this system and all it's parts. It is my main Classic Mac OS system and has the following applications installed on it:Adobe Acrobat 5.0, Adobe Distiller 5.0, Adobe Acrobat Catalog 4.0, Adobe Dimensions 1.0, Adobe GoLive 5.0, Adobe Illustrator 8.0, Adobe ImageReady 2.0, Adobe LiveMotion 1.0, Adobe PageMaker 6.5, Adobe PageMill 3.0, Adobe Photoshop 5.5, Adobe Premiere 5.1, Adobe Type Manager Deluxe 4.6, AppleWorks 6.2.8, Apple iTunes 1.0, BBEdit Lite 6.0, ClarisDraw 1.0, Corel PHOTO-PAINT 8 LE, Corel WordPerfect 3.5e, CorelDraw 8 LE, Fetch 3.0.3, FileMaker Pro 5.0, Fractal Design Painter 5.0.3, Macromedia Flash 5.0, Mathcad PLUS 6, Mathematica 2.2.2, MathReader 4.2, MetaCreations Bryce 3D, Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.1.7, Microsoft Outlook Express 5.0.6, Mozilla 1.3.1, Netscape 7.0.2, Netscape Communicator 4.8, Nisus Compact 3.4, Nisus Write 4.1.6, Opera 6.0.3, Softpress Freeway 2.0.3 LE, PiXELS 3D Studio 3.7, QuarkXPress 3.32, QuarkXPress 4.11, QuickTime Pro 5, QuickTime 6.0.3, ResEdit, SimpleText, Sound Studio 2.0.7, SoundEdit 16 2.0.7, SoundEffects 0.9.2, Strata VideoShop 4.0, StrataVision 3D 4.0, Theorist 2.0.1It is my back up video capture system (and how I generally watch TV) and can capture video at 320x240 at 30 fps (because neither of the two displays on this system use the onboard VRAM, all that memory is used for the system's video capture ability).
- SGI Indy This is my primary video capture system which has special hardware that lets it capture video at full frame size at full frame rate. I've invested about $800 in this system since 1999 (including the base system, IRIX 6.2 and special video capture hardware).
- PowerBook G3 Pismo My wife's system, which means we no longer shared the Wallstreet. Bought in 2003, we have a total investment of $300 in that system.
- PowerBook G3 Lombard Bought last summer for $100 for school, this is my main mathematics system. Additional investments in this system include about $250 for mathematics software (including Mathematica 4.1.5 and LiveMath Maker 2.5).
- PowerMac 8600 (Rhapsody 5.6) This is my primary Rhapsody workstation. This is were I have built most of both my Rhapsody and NeXT sites and were I tend to do most of my page layout work (the two 17" displays are quite nice for spreading out stuff in Create). I used to use it for the Blue Box environment (Mac OS 8.6) more, but haven't as much since I got the other 8600. Total investment in this system is about $250... all for software.
- IBM ThinkPad 760ED (Rhapsody 5.1) Currently my main mobile work system, it has manuals and documentation on just about every type of hardware I do work on. It is also my model Rhapsody system for demonstrations while giving talks on Apple, Mac OS X and their history. This system used to also be my main OPENSTEP system (by swapping out the hard drive), but is now only used for OPENSTEP when I need to work in FrameMaker. Total investment of about $500 (hardware and software) since 1999.
- PowerBook 3400c Basically a mobile version of my Mac OS 8.6 8600, it has the same applications as are listed above. I've recently taught myself 3D design on that system (the results of which can be seen in this thread). I also use it for working with older versions of mathematics apps that I still make use of. This system cost me $0.
- SGI Indigo2 Extreme Bought back in November for $35, this system is more than twice as fast as my Indy and when I finish up learning what I can with old software, I plan on using this system as a blender workstation.
- Sun SPARCstation 10 (OPENSTEP 4.2) My main OPENSTEP system, which I got last summer... total investment of $0.
- Quadra 950 This system has been part of my collection since 1997. I mainly use it for playing older games now (the three 21" displays are great with flight simulators). Also, my wife got mad when I even mentioned that I might take it down... it is just part of the family. She first saw how cool Macs were when she saw this system in action back when we met in 1999.
Additionally, I do training... which means I have to have at least a basic knowledge of a ton of software. Buying all new versions of software for that purpose would be prohibitively expensive and a major waste. Most software titles have not changed their major features in years, so older versions of software are perfect for become familiar with the basics before teaching those basics to others.
Also, because computers are how I make a living, nothing can be added to my collection that doesn't at least pay for itself. In many cases I've downloaded 30 day trial versions of software and used the funds I earned from that software in that period to pay for the software itself. In that way either the software earns a place in my collection... or it wasn't worth the money I would have had to spend on it.
So, what 1 computer could fulfill all the tasks that all my systems currently do... and cost no more than my newest system cost me?
Think about it... odds are that you spent more money on your MacBook than I have on any of the hardware I've gotten in the last three years... and I can do more with what I have.
My question has always been: Why spend so much money on one or two new systems and buying the new software that will work on them when you can get many times the functionality for far less by using older hardware and software?
An electronic engineer by trade and at work we have different computers for different tasks. Running UNIX or Windows.
I also fix a lot of software problems. However i tend to work on the problem when i get to it. Most software isn't that hard to figure out. Although then again i don't delve too deeply into applications, just enough to get them going and do basic stuff.
Personally i'd prefer one or two really powerful systems than lots of older systems. I don't see why you can't run a lot of what you need on just 4 systems. Why use an older system to do something when you can just emulate? Think of all the power wasted, the amount of time wasted switching between computers, the amount of money wasted on KVM's if you have one, and the amount of space wasted having all those machines.
You're choice though, personally wouldn't be mine.
Indicated status above.Here's what I can remember:
Mac SE x 2 (One died. One in storage in the states.)
Mac LC II (Loaned out, never got back.)
Quadra 840av (Died. I cried!
Performa 630 (Gave away.)
PowerMac 7200 x 2 (Gave away.)
PowerMac 7600 x 2 (Gave away.)
PowerMac G3 (Use often. Keep for Mac OS 9 and old games.)
iMac G3/233 (Died. Tossed it!)
TAM (I look at it every day!
PowerBook 170 (Used to use as my Fax machine. Now stored.)
PowerBook G4 15 inch (Use every day.)
eMate300 (gave away)
Newton 110 (Quit working. Tossed it.)
Newton 2000 (Storate)
Newton 2100 x 3 (Use one every day. Other 2 are backups.)
Also have a PM933 and an Intel iMac 17 inch that I use every day.
Forgot to list them! Must be getting old!
Also have some non Mac computers laying around the house as well including the Sharp MM20 that I am using to type this message.
I had a MacBook and an iMac, but just sold the iMac and traded the MacBook for a MacBook Pro (with a little cash).
I did enjoy having a desktop and a notebook for a little while, but honestly, it's just simpler for me to have one nice machine instead of two.
I did enjoy having a desktop and a notebook for a little while, but honestly, it's just simpler for me to have one nice machine instead of two.
0 as of yet
I have been looking for a used g4 mirror door or macmini for a reasonable price... but havent yet. I've seen them priced online for more than new minis.... umm sorry pal your old mac isnt what she used to be... but anyways.
If that continues though I might just end up buying a new mini once leopard is released an i have a new job. Though it will mostly just be used as a server for filesharing and light web browsing.
I have been looking for a used g4 mirror door or macmini for a reasonable price... but havent yet. I've seen them priced online for more than new minis.... umm sorry pal your old mac isnt what she used to be... but anyways.
If that continues though I might just end up buying a new mini once leopard is released an i have a new job. Though it will mostly just be used as a server for filesharing and light web browsing.
I'd ask you a similar question... why have both Unix and Windows systems at your work rather than use a Mac and emulate what you need?
I'd bet that your answer would be pretty close to why I use as many systems as I do.
So basically, you can keep systems running, but you really don't do anything with them.
That, in my opinion, is a major failure of most people in the IT profession. If you don't really use computers as tools and you, yourself, don't know how to actually produce things with them, then how in the world can you expect to help or advise others on them.
Having actual experience in what it is my clients do and what they need to accomplish their tasks is exactly why I don't have any competition. In fact, many of the other consultants I know bring their issues to me for help.
Please name four systems that could do what I need and provide prices. And those systems had better include real hardware for both Rhapsody and OPENSTEP because neither of those are usable in emulation no matter how fast the base system.
I don't use KVMs (wouldn't waste any money on that), the power usage is less than our refrigerator (no money wasted there either), I would still be working in a room to itself (no wasted space), and the computer hasn't been made that can out multitask humans.
All my computer related expenses for the last year are less than what you most likely paid for your Mac Mini (and that is including both hardware and software)... plus, I can get Apple computers for far less than the average person, and it still doesn't make sense for me to buy a new system.
Which, as I pointed out earlier, is because you don't do what I do. And until you need the resources I need, you wouldn't see why I have the systems that I do. Try moving beyond just enough to get them going and do basic stuff and you may see what I mean.
What I see in your choices is a massive waste of money based on a lack of actual experience. But don't despair, you are not alone in the money you waste... it seems to be the standard practice of computer users everywhere.
For me, business is business. Wasted money is money not earned. I'd have to replace that lost income by either giving up something or charging my clients more. Neither of those solutions are workable.
Still, I look forward to seeing what four systems you are going to recommend... and how you plan on keeping the price below that of your Mini without any loss of functionality.
blah....
i seem to love my 17s...
powerbook hi-def 17,
macbook pro 17,
and a blackbook
so...i guezz none?
i seem to love my 17s...
powerbook hi-def 17,
macbook pro 17,
and a blackbook
so...i guezz none?
My first mac was an ibook I purchased a year and a half ago because my job at the time had me on the road 25+ days a month. I upgraded last year to a Macbook and then replaced my aging pc with an G4 Powermac. That was more of a lateral upgrade since they were both about 5 years old.(Though the Powermac runs a hell of a lot better) I just recently added a xserve to act as a home server. Still setting it up though. Since I use my Powermac and Macbook an equal amount of time, I like the idea that OSX server has 'portable home directories' which I can use on which ever system I'm using at the time.
Well, I know I've answered this in another thread, so I'll keep it short.
The current machine is in my sig.
The other 2 machines are:
PB 12" 1GHz, 512mb RAM, 80gb hard drive
PowerMac (dual-proce) 2.3GHz G5, 2gb RAM, 400gb hard drive
The current machine is in my sig.
The other 2 machines are:
PB 12" 1GHz, 512mb RAM, 80gb hard drive
PowerMac (dual-proce) 2.3GHz G5, 2gb RAM, 400gb hard drive
Well that's a hardware issue. You try emulating UNIX and control a GPIB card at the same time.
I have a job. I don't need to know any more than that because i get paid regardless and only help people out in my spare time.
People still using Rhapsody and OPENSTEP should really move on and get onto newer things. No point staying in the past.
This reminds me of a phrase i heard, "Linux is only free if your time is worthless". For me the same sentiment resounds here. I prefer to have a better faster system, time is money and i don't want to wait while a slower machine does it's calculations when a newer machine will do it a whole lot faster.I don't use KVMs (wouldn't waste any money on that), the power usage is less than our refrigerator (no money wasted there either), I would still be working in a room to itself (no wasted space), and the computer hasn't been made that can out multitask humans.
All my computer related expenses for the last year are less than what you most likely paid for your Mac Mini (and that is including both hardware and software)... plus, I can get Apple computers for far less than the average person, and it still doesn't make sense for me to buy a new system.
Which, as I pointed out earlier, is because you don't do what I do. And until you need the resources I need, you wouldn't see why I have the systems that I do. Try moving beyond just enough to get them going and do basic stuff and you may see what I mean.
What I see in your choices is a massive waste of money based on a lack of actual experience. But don't despair, you are not alone in the money you waste... it seems to be the standard practice of computer users everywhere.
Plus while you are stuck in the dark ages working on out dated software, someone is going to come along with a fancy (and oh my god SO expensive Mac Mini) and know how to work the fancy new features and soon you'll be playing catch up.
Personally speaking, if you aren't earning enough money to buy at least one new system a year then either you aren't getting paid enough or you aren't getting enough work.
I have a friend who is in a similar field, self employed fixing windows, linux and apples. He can afford a Mac Pro, a fancy new laptop, a nice new house and a lovely big Audi A6 and still have money left over. I go to him when i can't solve something and he usually has the answer.
How can he afford all this? Well he gets paid well... don't you?
I get paid well too. It's nice to be able to afford fancy things
Maybe you should get a new job that actually pays well. Unless you REALLY like nostalgia.
Like I said, I had a feeling that your answer would be like that.
Then you obviously aren't qualified to speak on what works and what doesn't... but then again, you said you only do do basic stuff.
That is a short sighted point of view... you aren't by chance related to George Bush?
I'm not only a firm believer in those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it, the fact that I know both OPENSTEP and Rhapsody made me a Mac OS X expert before the first copy went on sale. And still today, knowing things about both systems makes me more knowledgeable about the newest Macs than, oh... say someone like you.
But what is more funny about your comment is what it says about you... you seem to be under the misguided notion that I (or anyone else for that matter) am anywhere as limited in what I do as you are.
See, I can be the world's foremost expert on Rhapsody and a leader within the remaining NeXT community while still being more of an expert on current modern computing than you could hope to be (at least given the fact that you have already settled on being less). And those aren't even my areas of greatest knowledge or interest (my life's passion is mathematics, not computers). Computers, while how I earn a living currently, are at best a hobby for me in relative importance. There is still nothing that computers can do for me in my main area of interest, so I doubt I'll be doing computer related stuff in 10 years or so any more than I was 10 or so years ago (heck, 10 years ago today I was a college track coach... which is obviously not a computer related field
).But all this also explains the lack of you identifying those magic four systems that you thought could fulfill all the functionality I currently have. Hopefully you'll give us that list in your next post (try not to forget
).Oddly, 90% of what I do I never have to wait on my systems for them to complete. For a person who can only do just enough to get them going and do basic stuff, you most likely are unaware that most of what we use computers for today, people were doing with computers 10, 15 and 20 years ago. The primary difference is software bloat.
Hmmm... care to put that one to the test?
I'll bet you the full price (original retail price plus shipping) of your MacBook that you are selling that I know more about the workings of both the hardware and software features of either your MacBook or Mac Mini. To be sure of the terms of the wager:
- if you win, I pay the full retail price of your MacBook plus the cost of you shipping it to me,
- if I win, I'll pay you for shipping but get your MacBook for free otherwise.
It sounds like you are someone who is very materialistic. Which is sad as that usually clouds one's better judgment (I sure hope that is the case here, and that you'll take me up on my wager
).To be honest, I went through such a phase too once... I owned four Porsches in a three year period. What I found is that living like you (someone who no longer can improve themselves beyond the basics and chases fancy things) is too empty for me.
Money comes and goes, things can always be taken away or lost in the blink of an eye... but knowledge is really the only thing of value worth having more of (you should consider reading The Count of Monte Cristo).
As such, my goals shifted from material things to acquiring more and more knowledge long ago. Admittedly, I can learn pretty much anything at two to three times the rate of the average person (which makes it easier for me to learn and do many things at once), but the concept of people bettering themselves throughout their life rather than settling for just doing basic stuff should be universal to all.
To be sure, the offer of the wager is real*... your knowledge of Macs verses my knowledge of Macs. May the best man win.
... anyone care to guess who would win?
* Note: I expect the MacBook to be in good condition, and as I'll be acquiring it whether I win or lose, your thread selling it should be closed if you accept the wager.
First off that wager is unfair. In one instance i sell my laptop for the price i was asking for it (no gain for me, well bar the 300 or so difference in asking price) and in the other instance i'd lose my laptop (a gain for you, 1200 worth of laptop goodness).
Why not restate that wager by paying what i'd lose on top of the laptop? Maybe 2000 for the laptop?
Then again, I know i'd lose that wager based on mac knowledge. As said before, i don't get paid for my mac knowledge, only for my engineering knowledge. I'd hold you to your wager based on engineering knowledge. However i (unlike you) know that would be an unfair wager as I am versed in all things engineering and you aren't. Just as you are versed in all things mac and i'm not (an unfair wager).
We could always go head to head on the windows side of things. My years of windows knowledge versus yours, probably another unfair contest.
You mentioned porsches, however gathering from your choice of computer systems i'm guessing they were dated and either given away or sold for a tiny fraction of their original cost. I don't have a porsche.
On another note, i never said i did basic stuff in what i work on. Only in what i help others with. Let's do some C programming, some VEE or labview, some assembly code? Those among others i'm very good at, because i need to be. Just like you need to be good at what you work on. However i can do all that on one machine. My job pays for it, so i don't have to.
I'm not denying that knowing about OPENSTEP made you an OSX expert before it came out. However... it's time to move on. OSX is already out and you aren't going to learn anything new by working in openstep that you won't learn in OSX.
As for being a leader in the remaining NEXT community. It's very easy to be the big fish in a little pond (thats getting smaller by the day). Maybe you are afraid that in the bigger ocean a bigger fish will come along.
Lastly for those 4 magic systems that will do what you want. That's up to you to decide. However you seem to be unwilling, or unable, to choose for yourself. As i said, i don't understand why you need all those systems. But if it makes you feel better to say you have loads and loads of systems (who is materialistic here now?) then that is your choice.
BTW i'm not a betting man. I prefer to earn what i own the old fashioned way, through honest to goodness work. Gambling is a slippery slope.
I think we've gone a little OT here. Apologies to the OP.
Why not restate that wager by paying what i'd lose on top of the laptop? Maybe 2000 for the laptop?
Then again, I know i'd lose that wager based on mac knowledge. As said before, i don't get paid for my mac knowledge, only for my engineering knowledge. I'd hold you to your wager based on engineering knowledge. However i (unlike you) know that would be an unfair wager as I am versed in all things engineering and you aren't. Just as you are versed in all things mac and i'm not (an unfair wager).
We could always go head to head on the windows side of things. My years of windows knowledge versus yours, probably another unfair contest.
You mentioned porsches, however gathering from your choice of computer systems i'm guessing they were dated and either given away or sold for a tiny fraction of their original cost
. I don't have a porsche.On another note, i never said i did basic stuff in what i work on. Only in what i help others with. Let's do some C programming, some VEE or labview, some assembly code? Those among others i'm very good at, because i need to be. Just like you need to be good at what you work on. However i can do all that on one machine. My job pays for it, so i don't have to.
I'm not denying that knowing about OPENSTEP made you an OSX expert before it came out. However... it's time to move on. OSX is already out and you aren't going to learn anything new by working in openstep that you won't learn in OSX.
As for being a leader in the remaining NEXT community. It's very easy to be the big fish in a little pond (thats getting smaller by the day). Maybe you are afraid that in the bigger ocean a bigger fish will come along.
Lastly for those 4 magic systems that will do what you want. That's up to you to decide. However you seem to be unwilling, or unable, to choose for yourself. As i said, i don't understand why you need all those systems. But if it makes you feel better to say you have loads and loads of systems (who is materialistic here now?) then that is your choice.
BTW i'm not a betting man. I prefer to earn what i own the old fashioned way, through honest to goodness work. Gambling is a slippery slope.
I think we've gone a little OT here. Apologies to the OP.
Well didn't you actually set the standard for what the wager would be based on? You said:
"Plus while you are stuck in the dark ages working on out dated software, someone is going to come along with a fancy (and oh my god SO expensive Mac Mini) and know how to work the fancy new features and soon you'll be playing catch up."
I was sure that you thought that you were that person with a fancy Mac Mini knowing more than I so I'd be playing catch up... doesn't that mean you should have the advantage?Just to be sure, I never questioned your abilities in engineering knowledge or any of these other areas. I never suggested any disparaging aspects of your line of work or you... but by contrast, you did do so about me.
Examples:
- "People still using Rhapsody and OPENSTEP should really move on and get onto newer things. No point staying in the past."
- "This reminds me of a phrase i heard, "Linux is only free if your time is worthless". For me the same sentiment resounds here."
- "Plus while you are stuck in the dark ages working on out dated software, someone is going to come along with a fancy (and oh my god SO expensive Mac Mini) and know how to work the fancy new features and soon you'll be playing catch up."
- "Personally speaking, if you aren't earning enough money to buy at least one new system a year then either you aren't getting paid enough or you aren't getting enough work."
- "Maybe you should get a new job that actually pays well."
- "Maybe you are afraid that in the bigger ocean a bigger fish will come along."
The wager seems fair if you are going to post negative, disparaging and baseless comments about me.
I'd consider it a contest... you'd earn exactly what you deserve in this case.
Really? And you know this how?
Many of the things that were plain to see in OPENSTEP are now lost in a clutter of features in Mac OS X. Knowing OPENSTEP, Rhapsody and the Mac OS X Developer Previews meant that I know of aspects of Mac OS X that most users would have a hard time coming across if just introduced to the system. Most Mac specialist today only learnt Mac OS X after it was being sold by Apple, and still don't know the system that fully. Even Apple's original documentation for training Apple service people about Mac OS X was painfully flawed.
More importantly, in the hours of presentations I've given to Mac user groups in the last few years, most people found that they learned more about what Mac OS X could do from my historical talks than they ever did by just using Mac OS X on their own.
But if you would lose the wager I put forward, then you really are in no position to judge. More to the point... why would knowing OPENSTEP and Rhapsody be mutually exclusive from being an expert in the current version of Mac OS X? My work isn't OPENSTEP and Rhapsody, my work is all Macs in general.
I'm a leader in the local Mac community here, and I get nearly as many request for help from the broader (world wide) Mac community as I ever have from the NeXT community.
Again, it is hard to fathom just how limited you must be to make such a comment... why would being a leader in the NeXT community be (again) mutually exclusive from being a leader in any other community? Are you really so limited that the thought that someone could be multifaceted is completely alien to you?
But I wasn't the person who brought it up... you said:
"I don't see why you can't run a lot of what you need on just 4 systems."
I never said I could do it with four systems... that was your number, not mine.As for how my systems make me feel, yeah, having the ability to do nearly anything without having to pay what a current specialist in any of those areas pays for a single purpose system does make me feel better. In just about every area of computing I have the ability to work in, a single project more than paid for my ability to work in those areas.
Word of advice... when posting, remember that what you've said is written, and can be brought back to be used against you later. If you really don't know what you are saying or aren't willing to stand by what you've said, don't post it. This isn't a conversation in a bar or over dinner, where you can conveniently forget what you originally stated.
Your phantom 4 systems aren't off topic... What systems would provide the functionality that I currently have? That information would be valuable to just about anyone who frequents these boards (and absolutely anyone who would read this thread).
We're all waiting.
Ah ok so. You were right, i was wrong, how could I have been so stupid.
Better?
*Accepts defeat with dignity and a big smile on his face.
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