Remember when they integrated that Facebook/Twitter integration into Lion (I think). They stripped it out. The thing about AI is nobody knows how it will evolve but every company thinks they need to do something in blind panic. Apple Intelligence will probably be a fad like the Vision Pro thing, IMO. I just want to keep it at arm's length so it doesn't try to consume my data.
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How much longer will 8GB be ok for?
- Thread starter WishyWashyUK
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This question heavily relies on if you plan to use the new features Apple plans to roll out in the coming years.
Right now do you use or plan to use AI in any meaningful way? If not, then I think you can wait it out a while.
My guess is that Apple will support the M1 macs for one to two more macOS updates. That extends security support to ~2030 or so which is pretty good.
Right now do you use or plan to use AI in any meaningful way? If not, then I think you can wait it out a while.
My guess is that Apple will support the M1 macs for one to two more macOS updates. That extends security support to ~2030 or so which is pretty good.
My MacBook Air M1 with 8GB starts lagging when Notes and Photos files get very large.
8GB is not enough RAM for AI video editing. I max out my GPU processor and RAM when upscaling (see specs below). So far my system has not needed much help from CPU except when encoding to a more manageable file size which is handled mostly by CPU when using HandBrake. On the other hand, my system RAM is more than enough at this time for anything I throw it, e.g. graphic design, video editing, etc.
Personally I think you are wrong with your comment that "every company thinks they need to do something in blind panic." AI has been evolving literally for decades, and anyone in tech with any competence at all has been watching closely.
You are correct that "nobody knows how it will evolve" but that does not equate to blind panic. Smart people have been watching and do know AI evolution will continue to be happening, rapidly, but those in tech with competence are not panicking they are planning.
Edit: One way smart folks plan is by realizing that as time goes on computers always optimize with more RAM than in the past. Always. And then also realizing that as time goes on AI usage will also use more and more RAM to optimize the computing that we buy computers to do. There is a reason Apple offers up 128 GB RAM in laptops whereas just a few years ago a max of only 16 GB was available.
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I'm presuming you're not handling 150MB large format RAW files. If so, something else is likely going on. Not every slowdown is due to memory.
My Firefox sometimes beachballs on me when my memory pressure is yellow. It's the memory, right?
Actually, I closed everything out as an experiment and realized that it beachballs regardless of what color the memory pressure is. It does it when it's green too. If I'm predisposed to believe every blip is due to memory pressure, it's easy to jump to that conclusion because my memory is always yellow.
You suggest that "Not every slowdown is due to memory," which technically is correct. However if we read up on Apple's Unified Memory Architecture (UMA) used on Apple's M-series chips and give some serious thought we will see that all operations use RAM, and realize that having more than enough RAM will minimize slowdowns by optimizing the UMA computing.
The superb Mac OS will of course force operations to work with less RAM, but that involves paging to relatively slow SSDs or performing additional relatively slow instructions.
Only with external i/o does UMA RAM become less relevant, and modern Macs with Thunderbolt 4 or 5 are capable of excellent i/o when properly configured with quality cables and solid external devices.
So yes, "It's the memory [RAM], right?" There are obvious exceptions like poor app operations, bugs, etc. But my experience has been that many such issues tend to be much less likely to present when operating in more than enough RAM space.
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Like all things with Apple, macOS will evolve, likely to key around having A.I. features "ON" to use desirable "new features we think you will love" and thus accelerate the pace to leave old hardware- including 8GB RAM devices- behind. We can see this by the former dominant tech catchphrase- the cloud- getting so deeply integrated into Apple tech, it's somewhat challenging to avoid having to pay the monthly rent for more cloud.
So while 8GB will still function, you'll feel like you are missing out because macOS will go where your 8GB can't really follow. Look at people with loaded Intel Macs with plenty of power for current A.I. finding that there is no support at all... to press them to go Silicon if they want these features. That's the AAPL way: turn over hardware purchases as fast as reasonably possible. It's one of several strategies that have made them generally competing for richest company in the world.
Yes, there very well may be OCLP-type hacks to show that old hardware can learn new "A.I." tricks exactly as such hacks now make it possible to upgrade old Macs to versions of macOS beyond some arbitrarily-chosen cutoff by Apple. But 8GB RAM was ACTUALLY probably too little for macOS a few years ago. The cheerleaders just argued that it was plenty to anyone who would listen as the cheerleaders always argue that whatever Apple chooses is best "for 99% of users" until Apple changes. Note how many of those voices are NOT now ripping into Apple for forcing "too much RAM" into all new Macs. Now that Apple has embraced a new base spec, it's as if passionate defenses of 8GB even throughout 2024 were never written.
Moral of the story: when asking questions of a very biased crowd to influence purchasing decisions, consider the input if you dare but also remember the older mantra: "think different" which- when it was slung by Apple themselves in the past- didn't seem to mean *as long as it aligns with what we want to sell you right now.
Minimal specs in an un-upgradable computer is just begging for technological evolution to obsolete the device sooner than buyer may hope. If you want long life out of such devices, you need to buy for 5+ years from now vs. buying for right now. The twists & turns of tech may obsolete a purchase sooner than expected. Else, be prepared to do exactly what the Corp wants you to do: buy again and again and again ASAP.
So while 8GB will still function, you'll feel like you are missing out because macOS will go where your 8GB can't really follow. Look at people with loaded Intel Macs with plenty of power for current A.I. finding that there is no support at all... to press them to go Silicon if they want these features. That's the AAPL way: turn over hardware purchases as fast as reasonably possible. It's one of several strategies that have made them generally competing for richest company in the world.
Yes, there very well may be OCLP-type hacks to show that old hardware can learn new "A.I." tricks exactly as such hacks now make it possible to upgrade old Macs to versions of macOS beyond some arbitrarily-chosen cutoff by Apple. But 8GB RAM was ACTUALLY probably too little for macOS a few years ago. The cheerleaders just argued that it was plenty to anyone who would listen as the cheerleaders always argue that whatever Apple chooses is best "for 99% of users" until Apple changes. Note how many of those voices are NOT now ripping into Apple for forcing "too much RAM" into all new Macs. Now that Apple has embraced a new base spec, it's as if passionate defenses of 8GB even throughout 2024 were never written.
Moral of the story: when asking questions of a very biased crowd to influence purchasing decisions, consider the input if you dare but also remember the older mantra: "think different" which- when it was slung by Apple themselves in the past- didn't seem to mean *as long as it aligns with what we want to sell you right now.
Minimal specs in an un-upgradable computer is just begging for technological evolution to obsolete the device sooner than buyer may hope. If you want long life out of such devices, you need to buy for 5+ years from now vs. buying for right now. The twists & turns of tech may obsolete a purchase sooner than expected. Else, be prepared to do exactly what the Corp wants you to do: buy again and again and again ASAP.
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LibreOffice plus Music plus Safari with this tab open is using 6 GB RAM in this 8 GB machine. So 8 is enough for normal work without AI. There is no room for significant AI use though which is why everything is now 16 GB.
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Apple does not want to make the same mistake they made with cMPs. They are in the business of planned obsolescence now and want consumers to trade-in hardware for new every 24 to 36 months. That's why all the new systems have integrated CPU, GPU and RAM. No removable parts equals no upgrades except through Apple.
I've been genuinely surprised by how well the 8gb machines we have in our fleet perform. Our users regularly have MS Edge with like 30 tabs (organized into groups) open, Teams, Slack, as well as a handful of Apple Apps open simultaneously, and they only reboot every other month or so. I have 16gb and mine doesn't seem to perform any better in reality than their's do. I also run an M1 mini 8gb at home as Plex Server / NAS, that also has a small VM (HACS) running on it, and it doesn't skip a beat.
If in terms of performance, then for 2-3 years for sure, until a major and demanding to the hardware update on the part of the operating system and programs. For “typewriter” will be enough 8GB of memory: Internet, browsers, games of 15 years ago, office programs, some small programming, undemanding and not professional photo-audio-video editing. Serious software requires 32GB of memory.
And that's precisely why I only purchase the base model Mac Mini. Although we will get some indication when Macs with AS will get support when Apple decides to cutoff the M1 or M2 mini's with 8GB.
I recently traded in my M2 with 8GB as soon as I read Apple bumped the RAM specs. For me my decision had more to do with resale or trade in value for a Mac with 8GB.
My 2018 i5 Mini will live on as a Linux Mac when it gets cutoff by Apple. I was surprised it received Sequoia this year.
If I had to place any bets, I'd bet that Apple Intelligence is going to end up being mostly a dud with some bright spots and those bright spots end up getting integrated into the Apple OS ecosystem. The way they're pushing Apple Intelligence, is as if your phone will run your life for you.
AI is a tool like any other and all tools take effort to use well. I just don't see people going crazy applying a layer of a machine learning to everything in their life. Even many of the ones who want that will tire of the effort it'll take to do it well.
Sell it while the 8gb MBA is still in demand. You'll be in the black. Two to three weeks and sales will collapse, they will be irrelevant.
Man there is already a difference to be honest. I have 16GB of RAM but my dad has 13" M2 Air with 8, and I've put it through the paces before and you can already feel how much swap it has to use. It's perfectly fine for him, he uses email and safari, but I push a bit harder and require a fan and have needed 16GB since years ago. I'm excited to upgrade to M4 Pro and get 24GB.
Apple Intelligence is going to speed up how different a machine with 8GB vs. 16GB feels for sure.
Also, if you do any gaming, the push into gaming that Apple is making is looking promising, and the machines with 16GB are going to do much better for that.
That being said, I think you are at a sweet spot to sell your current machine (or trade-in) and get either a 14" MBP M4, or a 13 or 15" Air (whatever your preference is) with M4 when that drops in a few months.
The longer you wait, the more your battery will age, the more your value will drop, vs. you doing this now and getting new design, new machine aka new battery and components, etc.
My vote is definitely take the value you are at now and get the M4 machine you'd prefer (14 MBP now or MBA soon).
Apple Intelligence is going to speed up how different a machine with 8GB vs. 16GB feels for sure.
Also, if you do any gaming, the push into gaming that Apple is making is looking promising, and the machines with 16GB are going to do much better for that.
That being said, I think you are at a sweet spot to sell your current machine (or trade-in) and get either a 14" MBP M4, or a 13 or 15" Air (whatever your preference is) with M4 when that drops in a few months.
The longer you wait, the more your battery will age, the more your value will drop, vs. you doing this now and getting new design, new machine aka new battery and components, etc.
My vote is definitely take the value you are at now and get the M4 machine you'd prefer (14 MBP now or MBA soon).
Do you regularly run Activity Monitor? Turn it on, and put it in a window. Kep an eye on it for memory usage. If the memory bar is regularly in the yellow and its swapping gb of ram out of your SSD all the time, then you do not have enough ram. If it's mostly in the green then you are OK.
I keep mine open in the first desktop all the time because in my copy of Sonoma something called VTDecoderXPService is a memory leak and I have to turn it off now and then to drop it back.
the sad part to that answer depends on what your expectations are going forwards. If you are the type of person who upgrades on the day and date of every upgrade and likes to stay current then you will likely not survive 2 years. However if you don't buy into the every possible hack that is out there is going to effect my system and are willing to take things in a slower more reasonable pace then you can likely get far more time out of your Mac.
Apple is in the business of selling hardware so when they made the move to 16gb as a standard there is no longer the need to optimize the Mac for a system that has less memory. the flood gate are wide open now and don't expect your 8gb system to be a viable speed choice with newer OS releases. But there is an alternative path for this story. If you are on MacOS 13 or 14 still, then don't upgrade the OS. These were written for use with the lesser memory that your Mac has. More than likely as you have said you have an M1 then MacOS 12 and 13 are likely the fastest OS you are ever going to get. Apple writes code for their current chipset. And the M2 was basically a sped up M1 chip with a few bells added to it. The M3 was a change and the M4 is a new beast. So you can bet that MacOS 15 is written to take advantage of the M3 and likely has code content that is for the M4 chip instructions going forwards. Throw the more ram into the mixture and you will see its not looking good for us older chip owners.
but that is just my take and I am sure that others will take issue with my conclusions. I just look to the A7 to A8 chip and how IOS went from viable for the 1gb ram of the A7 to really not functional two years down the road as the ram requirements just made it too slow to work effectively. past actions of apple predict future directions
You do not go to hell when your Mac begins paging to disk. In fact with the super fast SSDs of modern Macs, paging to disk has never been less of an issue.
Don't stress it until you start to notice performance issues.
Don't stress it until you start to notice performance issues.
Not a Silicon Mac, but on my iPad Pro A17 chip model, I’m surprised that in this past year I have had experienced what seems to be the limit of 8Gb RAM when running multiple applications that I switch back and forth with. I mainly write and use Obsidian with Safari and a few other applications like MarginNote and Books. There are times when one of the applications refresh which I suppose is due to hitting the limit of the 8GB RAM?
No. iPad has 5GB per app limitation. iPad OS manages memory aggressively for apps in background unlike Mac OS.
I think it's helpful to break your question down into two parts:
1. How long will 8GB of RAM be usable without significant slowdown?
2. How will the move to 16GB across the board impact the resale value of 8GB Macs?
The answer to the first question is hard to answer other than to say if you don't have a problem with 8GB today, you're probably not going to have a problem in the next 24 months barring a change in your use case, as long as you don't expect too much from new features in macOS 16 (or new apps.) That said, bear in mind that 8GB has been a pretty stingy amount of ram in a non upgradeable computer for a while now, so you definitely shouldn't expect things to get any better.
The answer to the second question is simpler. The move to 16GB of RAM standard across the Mac lineup is likely to noticeably accelerate the depreciation of devices that shipped with only 8GB of RAM. If resale value is a major concern for you, I'd sell sooner rather than latter (although ideally you would've sold before the announcement.)
Think of it this way, previously a machine with 16GB of RAM might have been able to be resold at, or near the retail price of a brand new 8GB machine. Now you can get a brand new 16GB machine on sale for $100 under MSRP. As we head into the holiday season, retailers are going to be trying to clear out their 8GB inventory with deep discounts while also offering sales on the 16GB machines, so you should expect prices on the secondary market to fall accordingly.
Honestly I believe that, although it's not their approach currently for understandable reasons (it's opt-in because it's not perfectly reliable and the image of the technology is bad)
It's just another bunch of machine learning models. They're all over the OSes. There's no single switch that turns off the camera processing, photos categorizing faces, Siri Suggestions, predictive text on the keyboard, which widget should show at a particular moment if they're set to smart rotate in a stack, AirPods' EQ based on your ears and so much more you can't even begin to list them because it'd turn your iPhone into a Nokia 3310. Who knows what else is used in the background for optimizations in regards to battery, display, etc. I think with time people will embrace these functionalities as part of the system when they start seeing the utility and when Apple finds more creative and embedded ways to integrate than an image gen app.
Tried Image Playground on an 8GB machine today and it became very slow albeit not at all warm. All other apps froze while it was generating and weirdly I had to restart before I could get images after a few tries. I wouldn't use it on an 8GB computer if I'm doing something else and trying to generate an image to use in it.