Resolved How-To: FIX MAC PRO FAN SPEEDS when using PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards

[m4v3r1ck]

@SteveJobzniak here's another update! (BOLD = changed)

My room temperature seems to be ~4*C higher than yours.

1. PCI - Sensor-based value -> PCI Ambient: 30*C <-> 60*C
2. PS - Sensor-based value -> PSU1 Secondary Component: 30*C <-> 60*C
3-6. Auto

The last two 840 EVO SSD's (RAID0) are in an USB 3.0 enclosure, so no readings from them.

Not having any loud fan noises!

Cheers

 

[SteveJobzniak]

Yeah, different room temperatures and different amounts of power draw (maybe you've got more hungry GPUs and PCI express cards) can account for the rest of the differences. Your temperature ranges for the automatic fan speeds are good. Your temperatures all look great now, and if the fans aren't noisy then congratulations on a job well done! You've extended the life of that Mac by many years!

Each PCI express card can draw up to 75 watts from the slot itself, and the 2x 6-pin connectors for the graphics card both deliver 75 watts each. So having a more loaded machine will draw more power and lead to more heat. So I think that's a likely explanation for most of the temperature differences and your need for higher fan speeds than mine. And ambient temp plays a big role too.

I only have some low-power PCI express cards, and a single graphics card which is one of the most power-efficient ever made (GTX 960, Nvidia's new Maxwell architecture, which uses half the power of their old generations, idles at 9W and tops at 125W at full load, and I almost never load it at all).

And the day our power supplies go "bang" (as all computer power supplies eventually do), remember to look for a friend with electronics repair knowledge, or a local repair shop. It's a pretty simple task to replace capacitors. I've saved thousands of dollars by always doing the home electronics repairs myself instead of buying new power supplies/replacement hardware. But I dream of the day when capacitors are improved beyond "paper+water" technology so that I can stop wasting time with repairs.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for all the info, really learn a lot in this thread. I re-adjust the fan profile in MFC, now the PSU fan still base one the PSU 2nd component, but the temperature range from 33C - 55C.

This make my PSU fan always run above idle, but still below 1000RPM most of the time and virtually no extra fan noise. In fact, when idling, it's just an extra 100RPM, but effectively cool the PSU down for 4C (from 40C to 36C), so it's sounds like a good trade off for potentially longer PSU life (and higher max output)

Even though my last time to install a capacitor is around 20 years ago. I can still remember that's a relatively simple job. All I need is just the proper tool. Hopefully I don't need to repair that by myself before I get the 7,1 (or 8,1... if that fit what I want). But sure it's worth to try the repairing by myself if I can clearly identify which capacitor is the troublemaker (again, if that really happen).

 

[SteveJobzniak]

@h9826790 Those temperatures look perfect now. Great work! Happy to hear that it did not become noisy either. The capacitors will last a lot longer before drying, and will output more watts for less work now.

Like you, I am waiting for a Mac Pro 7,1 or 8,1 someday and hope I won't have to do any repairs until then. But more than that, I hope that Apple stops the trashcan design, otherwise I seriously think my next Mac Pro will be a Hackintosh Pro (which also has the benefits of always having a boot screen and perfect PC graphics card support and access to the latest Intel technologies and easy piece by piece upgrades in the future). The Trashcan can't replace CPUs, and can't replace the GPUs, and can't replace the storage. It contains two "D700s" which are really just heavily downclocked, old Radeon cards. It's a lot of money for a totally locked down system, and all expansion stuff has to be placed in external PCI Express to Thunderbolt enclosures, so it's not really any smaller or more convenient... Hmm... Let's see what Apple does. I hope for something between the classic Mac Pro and the new Mac Pro design, with totally replaceable components.

Since Apple earns all its money from iOS and laptops, I have no doubts that they could make an upgradeable desktop Mac to keep the desktops alive even though it would mean they lose future sales. The desktop is dying but it's always going to be needed by true professionals (music studios, 3D renderers, etc, will never use iPads). So I bet a more upgradeable Mac could happen!

Anyway, if you ever need to replace capacitors, you can read this guide I wrote on another forum. Ignore the listed caps (that's for a specific product), but it mentions good capacitor brands and things to think about (such as recommending that you always replace all capacitors at once, to avoid having to do more repairs too soon):
https://www.gearspace.com/board/so-...ace-800-powersupply-failure.html#post11224770

The most important rules: Same or smaller height+diameter, same lead pitch (distance between legs) if it's a snap-in capacitor (one without bendable legs), the exact same capacitance (the number measured in uF, written on the side of the capacitor), and the same or higher voltage tolerance. And try to get Low ESR caps (that's mentioned in the linked thread). But let's hope you never have to do this, now that your temperatures are much healthier.

And remember to discharge the old ones by placing a high-value resistor over the connections, otherwise you'll get a small shock. Hehe. See https://www.gearspace.com/board/geekslutz-forum/485172-discharging-capacitor-circuit.html for tips.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for the guide (bookmarked). Hopefully never need to use it. Anyway, my PSU temperature can remain below 40C under stress as well.

Both 7950s and the CPU works pretty hard for rendering a 4K video in FCPX. This is the stabilized temperature. The system ambient goes up 2C, the PCIe ambient increase 6C. But the PSU temperature only rase for 2C, the PSU fan automatically spin up to about 1000RPM to remove the extra heat

 

[SteveJobzniak]

@h9826790: I am really happy to hear you're under 40*C even during load! Kickass!

Decided to try my own Mac Pro during max 3D load: Playing Deus Ex Human Revolution at Ultra settings in 1080p for two hours. That's with the GTX 960.

The fans sped up a bit (as they should) but remained totally inaudible. Temps only rose by 2*C, thanks to the extra fan speed. The temperature ranges worked perfectly and kept it silent and cool.


So now all three of us have kickass, cool and silent machines. Good work, guys!

Before (casual/normal use):

During 2 hours of gaming:

I'm going to take a vacation from this site now and won't be able to answer questions. Anyone else who wants to do these modifications can now read our discussions and you'll have all the info you need.

Happy new year!

 

[m4v3r1ck]

Guys, perhaps a dumb question. Why is there only three Drive Bays in MFC v1.3.2, while iStatsMenus has all four of them monitored?

Very happy with the new temperatures in my cMP, thank you very much you both for the info's (sharing your set-ups) and directions!!!

1. PCI - Sensor-based value -> PCI Ambient: 33*C <-> 60*C
2. PS - Sensor-based value -> PSU1 Secondary Component: 27*C <-> 55*C

Have a great 2016, and a super-cool cMP!

Cheers

 

[star-affinity]

I guess you know about the trick that is running the OpenGL Extensions Viewer.app test after a cold start of the Mac Pro will make the fans go calm even when set to automatic in Macs Fan Control. For some reason I have to run the test twice for it to settle nowadays. This will make the fans stay calm (I guess the way they would be if the graphics card was EFI) until the computer is shut down and started again.

I have no idea what it is with these tests that makes the fans stay calm, but they do.

Edit:
Oh, I didn't see the posts in this thread was one year old…

 

[owbp]

Sorry for digging up the old thread, but the (off)topic discussed here (PSU temps) is exactly what I was searching these days.

I've bought 4,1 few weeks ago, dusted it thoroughly, swapped HDDs and R9 280X from 1,1.
Now, my PSU temps are in 58-60ºC range when cMP is idling.

The air and the case around the PSU is very cold while showing these temps. On the other hand my 1,1 was extremely hot when approaching 50ºC. I could lower the temps on 1,1 with PSU fan, but when try to do the same thing on 4,1 the fan is very noisy and it goes to 42ºC min with the help of the PCI fan.

The funny thing is, that temps go to 44-49ºC if I put a heavy load on my CPU. This is screenshot taken after half an hour of 8 instances of yes > /dev/null & in Terminal. You can see that the fans are still idling

The same thing happened when playing new games in Bootcamp, but the fans are kicking in due to GPU load.

So, they (temps) are going down if I put 4,1 under heavy load, fans kicking in or not...

Does anyone have an idea what is happening? I don't know where PSU thermal sensor is or is it fault in it or the PSU itself. As you can see, the 4,1 is cold in every other way except for that strange PSU behavior.

 

[h9826790]

Sorry for digging up the old thread, but the (off)topic discussed here (PSU temps) is exactly what I was searching these days.

I've bought 4,1 few weeks ago, dusted it thoroughly, swapped HDDs and R9 280X from 1,1.
Now, my PSU temps are in 58-60ºC range when cMP is idling.
View attachment 678130 View attachment 678131
The air and the case around the PSU is very cold while showing these temps. On the other hand my 1,1 was extremely hot when approaching 50ºC. I could lower the temps on 1,1 with PSU fan, but when try to do the same thing on 4,1 the fan is very noisy and it goes to 42ºC min with the help of the PCI fan.
View attachment 678132
The funny thing is, that temps go to 44-49ºC if I put a heavy load on my CPU. This is screenshot taken after half an hour of 8 instances of yes > /dev/null & in Terminal. You can see that the fans are still idling
View attachment 678133 View attachment 678134
The same thing happened when playing new games in Bootcamp, but the fans are kicking in due to GPU load.
View attachment 678136
So, they (temps) are going down if I put 4,1 under heavy load, fans kicking in or not...

Does anyone have an idea what is happening? I don't know where PSU thermal sensor is or is it fault in it or the PSU itself. As you can see, the 4,1 is cold in every other way except for that strange PSU behavior.

Did you try a SMC reset?

 

[owbp]

Yes, both ways, unplugging and waiting for 15 seconds and holding power button for 5 seconds while unplugged. Still the same.

 

[h9826790]

Yes, both ways, unplugging and waiting for 15 seconds and holding power button for 5 seconds while unplugged. Still the same.

Then I will say it looks like the sensor is faulty.

 

[owbp]

Then I will say it looks like the sensor is faulty.

I was really hoping that wasn't the case, that or the faulty PSU
I know that this is up to me, but i would really like your opinion on this, would you try to fix/change sensor, change the PSU or leave it alone?

 

[h9826790]

I was really hoping that wasn't the case, that or the faulty PSU
I know that this is up to me, but i would really like your opinion on this, would you try to fix/change sensor, change the PSU or leave it alone?

Change the sensor is not an option for me, especially the PSU now is working fine. The sensor location is unknown, the procedure is unknown, sounds like more risk on damaging something then fix it.

Change PSU should work, but unless you can get a PSU for low price. I won't do that as well.

Since the sensor is basically doing nothing in normal case (the fan is controlled by the loading, but not temperature), there is no need to worry about the PSU cooling. However, in this case, I will let the OS to manage the fan, but not setup my own fan profile.

If you want some extra cooling during idle, you can simply set a higher RPM by iStat. That will increase the minimum fan speed, but the system can still further spin up the fan when under heavy loading.

P.S. if you really want to change the PSU, may be buy a whole machine, only swap the PSU, and then sell it out is the cheapest way. Because the PSU itself actually working fine, it basically won't affect the re-selling price.

 

[friolz]

This is one of the most interesting threads I've read here so far! Thanks for all the information!

Im also suffering from this weird fan behavior.

The title and some posts mention non-EFI GPUs as a possible source for the higher RPMs. But I have ab R9 280X in my Mac Pro which I've EFI-flashed (boot screen is showing up). So I would call that an EFI-based graphics card (which shouldn't caus those problems?).

Someone mentioned already the idea of an automated 3D application like OpenGL Extensions Viewer that would just rev up the fans after startup in order to call the whole system down. It would be great if there would exists such a "hack". Manually starting something like OpenGL Extensions Viewer and then starting the tests seems a little tedious.

Actually I'm thinking about automating ffmpeg to do this job -- dunno if ffmpeg does also the trick but it's worth trying.

 

[cdf]

Actually I'm thinking about automating ffmpeg to do this job -- dunno if ffmpeg does also the trick but it's worth trying.

I have an automatic solution that runs a CUDA stress test (a modification of gnu_burn) for 30 seconds after boot up. Everything happens in the background. The fans ramp up and then settle down to normal (PCI to 800 and PS to 600 RPM).

Since CUDA is just for NVIDIA GPUs, a solution like the one that you propose would be even better. Let us know if it works.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

I have tested my Mac Pro 2 days with a 5770 to find out when the fans going faster, so i found this setup. On high load the system is a bit cooler than the standard SMC setup.

Room temperature 20°C (but this is not really important)

1. PCI - Sensor-based value -> PCI Ambient: 35°C <-> 57°C
2. PS - Sensor-based value -> PSU Secondary Component: 44°C <-> 65°C

 

[friolz]

Could you guys post your PSU First and Secondary temps? Mine are always above the aformentioned and recommended 35C. Mostly over 40C running towards 50C.

 

[h9826790]

Could you guys post your PSU First and Secondary temps? Mine are always above the aformentioned and recommended 35C. Mostly over 40C running towards 50C.

What's you ambient temperature?

Did you put anything in the optical bay?

Is your PSU clean (not dusty)?

I assume you are talking about idle temperature, right?

 

[friolz]

My ambient temp is around 30C.

Yes, the optical bay has a SuperDrive and an SSD installed.

I assume that my PSU is clean. Since I can't open it I think so. How do clean it?

Yes, idle temperatur is what I meant.

 

[h9826790]

I assume that my PSU is clean. Since I can't open it I think so. How do clean it?

To clean it properly. It's recommended to take the PSU out. However, if you don't want to take the risk. I would recommend:

1) shutdown the Mac
2) open the side panel
3) remove the optical bay cage
4) Apply compressed air from the back of the PSU

If the PSU is dusty, you should able to clearly see some dust coming out from the PSU fan.

 

[friolz]

Thanks for the tip. I haven't cleaned the PSU yet, but this is my system after idling 30 minutes.

I suppose the PSU temps are too high?

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for the tip. I haven't cleaned the PSU yet, but this is my system after idling 30 minutes.

I suppose the PSU temps are too high?

That looks a bit high to me. But sure within the safe range, far from too hot.

 

[friolz]

I have the solution for bumping up your fans at startup, which solves the fan speed problem eventually:

1. You have to install GpuTest (I did it in my home directory)

2. Here's my little AppleScript, which you can save as an Application:

do shell script "open /Users/friolz/gputest/GpuTest.app --args /test=fur /width=1280 /height=720 /msaa=4 /benchmark /benchmark_duration_ms=5000 /no_scorebox"
tell application "Finder"
    set visible of process "GpuTest" to false
end tell

3. Add the AppleScript Application to your Login Items

This will start the FurMark GpuTest for 5 minutes (which is enough) and also hide the window, so you won't even notice it at all. After the 5 seconds it quits and your fans will return to their minimum speeds!

[Edit: I've tested it with my ATI GPU but it should work with Nvidia as well.]

 

[SteveJobzniak]

@friolz: 5 minutes is pointless. You can do it for 1 second. The point is that the PC GPU starts in 3D acceleration mode when the computer powers on, and the Mac doesn't tell it to go into 2D mode. But starting and closing a 3D application makes the Mac tell the GPU to calm down and enter 2D mode, which makes the GPU go into power-saving mode which in turn generates less power draw on the PSU which in turn makes the Mac's miscalibrated fans run quieter.

There are two ways to fix the fan noise:

1. The way I proposed, which reconfigures the Mac fan speeds to be based on heat instead of how many watts they draw from the PSU.

2. The way you and many others proposed, which starts and closes a 3D application to get the GPU into low-power 2D mode which means less wattage which means slower Mac fan speeds. However, that method doesn't solve the noise you'll get if you play games or use any other 3D applications, since the power draw will then rise again and so will the Mac fan noise.

There is a third way, actually (which would benefit even people who use method 1):

3. nVidia could recode their Web Driver to put the GPU into 2D mode at startup, since macOS itself isn't smart enough to do it. This would save more electricity even for people who use method 1. And it would completely eliminate the need for method 2. Does someone want to take care of the task of contacting nVidia and trying to get them to do this?