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I've seen other articles on TB chips at the ~$90 mark (under the impression the figure was from an inside source, as that aspect wasn't elaborated on). Looking at this logically, it makes sense to me that such a figure is more accurate, as they went over budget (optical variant, LightPeak, was supposed to make the $50 mark, and missed). Figure in the "lost" R&D, and ~$90 seems realistic.

I think there are a few possibilities:

  1. $90 is the price of whole Thunderbolt setup. This includes the host controller (in the computer), two modulator chips (cable) and device controller (in the actual end-device)
  2. $90 is/was the price of Light Ridge when it launched in February. Intel has now released a cheaper (and smaller) Eagle Ridge with half the channels
  3. The price is different for each partner (search for word "price" in the link). Thus ~$15 could be the price Apple buys them for, whereas third parties pay ~$90

And I would say it's most likely a combination of these things. There probably isn't a concrete list price at this point, given that TB is Apple exclusive at the moment and devices are made by a limited set of companies too.

So it makes me think that the figure VR-Zone is quoting is either wrong, or perhaps for one of the chips in the device end or even the cable (remember, there are modulator chips in each end of TB cables). This is just a guess of course, but I think it's possible.

VR-Zone is fairly reliable in general, they aren't like Fudzilla :p They specifically state that it's the price of the host controller, not modulator or device controller (although it is possible that their source have mixed them up or something was lost during the translation (most likely an Asian source)).
 
I think there are a few possibilities:

  1. $90 is the price of whole Thunderbolt setup. This includes the host controller (in the computer), two modulator chips (cable) and device controller (in the actual end-device)
  2. $90 is/was the price of Light Ridge when it launched in February. Intel has now released a cheaper (and smaller) Eagle Ridge with half the channels
  3. The price is different for each partner (search for word "price" in the link). Thus ~$15 could be the price Apple buys them for, whereas third parties pay ~$90

And I would say it's most likely a combination of these things. There probably isn't a concrete list price at this point, given that TB is Apple exclusive at the moment and devices are made by a limited set of companies too.
There are a number of possibilities, such as the $10 - 15 figure is the smaller chip, or even the end-point chip (device rather than the motherboard).

What's sad, is that Intel still doesn't list anything, even if you search out the actual part numbers.
  • Eagle Ridge is L123TA46 (smaller part used in the Air for example)
  • Light Ridge is L051NB32 (larger controller that still has all channels)
Search either on ark.intel.com, and still get nothing.

So the current licensing deals still have these figures on lock-down for the moment (AFAIK, Apple and Sony are the only system vendors using them right now, and only a handful of device vendors). Not good IMO, as it's slowing down availability and therefore adoption.

Granted, this was stated at launch, but I'd have expected the prices to be released by now as a means of attracting both user and vendor attention (price is critical to adoption).

As a result, USB 3.0 may actually get a boost from all of this, even though it's slower (cheaper and more end-user products should be available by the time TB really picks up steam). Essentially negating Intel's hold of USB 3.0 support in order to give TB a real chance.

Afterall, the 400MB/s or so from USB 3.0 isn't exactly a 1 legged dog... :D :p

VR-Zone is fairly reliable in general, they aren't like Fudzilla :p They specifically state that it's the price of the host controller, not modulator or device controller (although it is possible that their source have mixed them up or something was lost during the translation (most likely an Asian source)).
I was thinking more along the lines of a simple mix-up (translation error, or someone got a figure flipped when it was stated, particularly the source).
 
Of course a lot of this comes down to if Apple's new displays will work with DP. If they don't, Apple has to integrate TB.

No they don't. They can just continue to sell last year's mini-dispalyport model at a lower cost.

there is the expensive "docking port" display and the less expensive "works on most PCs and Mac with a most a cheap (less that TB cable) adapter" display. Apple can easily sell two displays... not going to kill them. They have done it before (when sold multiple sizes). This is even simpler because they are the same size ( share component cost-volume benefits).

That is a far simpler solution than the Rube Goldberg designs of retro fitting some quirky TB hack job onto the Mac Pro.
 
I think it's more of a choice for the graphics manufacturers.

There is no reason why the mini display port and thunderbolt couldn't be on the same machine harmoniously. Why couldn't apple toss in a low end card, more for service/diagnostic purposes tied through the thunderbolt and then the graphics manufactures can adopt as needed I can't see the need to daisy chain a display through the storage work flow at this point.

I think the Mac pro audience would greatly appreciate their 6 devices bring storage and I/O and let the super maxed out hard core graphics keep mini display, it'll work with the thunderbolt display (albeit without the hub features).
 
I highly doubt the would leave TB off of their premier line primarily used by pro users. TB storage for video projects alone would be worth it.

Why? What exact advantage is there of providing TB for these users? Those who really need high speed disk either have them mounted internally or are using PCIe eSATA / SAS / RAID cards -- which are faster than the top end promised by TB...
 
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yea TB seems to be geared towards mobile devices. macpros already have sas,esata,hba solutions. but its apple and they dont like to confuse customers so:
my guess is they will include a data only tb port on the front and on the back and over time encourage gpu makers to make dp tb compatible.
 
Why? What exact advantage is there of providing TB for these users? Those who really need high speed disk either have them mounted internally or are using PCIe eSATA / SAS / RAID cards -- which are faster than the top end promised by TB...

t-bolt allows booting. A plug and play raid0 ssd should allow for a very fast easy way to run your machine's os x. the internal drives can be used for other purposes. other then that t-bolt and mac pros are not much of a matchup. most pcie esata cards don't allow booting. now if the mac pro has non bootable t-bolt I have 0 need for it and my mac pro.


http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10549

if this was a stable system and had speeds at 700MB/s it would make a nice portable boot drive. use it with your mac pro at work and your imac at home.
 
If TB has integrated on GPU; will older models of Mac Pro have an access To TB port; especially if user decided to upgrade into GPU that has TB port?:confused:
 
If TB has integrated on GPU; will older models of Mac Pro have an access To TB port; especially if user decided to upgrade into GPU that has TB port?:confused:

I believe the 2010 models would here is why. thumbnail of my 2010 mac pro
 

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Just a heads up guys (didn't feel it needed its own thread), but the quad-core Mac Pro has slipped to 1-2 days shipping time in Australia. I know this doesn't guarantee new models are close, but this is usually typical of an impending update.

FWIW the TB displays are nearing release, so its possible the new Mac Pro will be available alongside it. I know its a longshot, as the new chips aren't even available yet.

EDIT: The 8-core Mac Pro has also now slipped to 1-2 business days.

EDIT 2: Sorry guys, false alarm, every Mac now ships in 1-2 business days (its usually within 24 hours).
 
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I believe the 2010 models would here is why. thumbnail of my 2010 mac pro

My Macbook Pro (which will never get Thunderbolt), also shows this under Apple System Profile. Including things like Hardware RAID (nope), and PCI Cards (don't have a card slot.)

I don't think this implies anything.
 
My Macbook Pro (which will never get Thunderbolt), also shows this under Apple System Profile. Including things like Hardware RAID (nope), and PCI Cards (don't have a card slot.)

I don't think this implies anything.

Don't jump to conclusion. Mac Pro is different; it have a lot of room for expansion; however Apple method in implementing TB at Mac Pro can tell if all Mac Pro owners will be able to get it or not.
 
It's not as if Apple has a habit of introducing new features to old, dated computers.

I wouldn't expect it, not even if I had a 2010 Mac Pro.

The implementation so far is that the Thunderbolt chip needs to be on the logic board, otherwise we should have seen a simple PCI-Express expansion card.
 
It's not as if Apple has a habit of introducing new features to old, dated computers.

I wouldn't expect it, not even if I had a 2010 Mac Pro.

Apple isn't in that habit - but the MacPro buyer selects that model so that they have PCIe expansion capabilities, and some reasonable method to upgrade and add new features. A thunderbolt expansion card for older MacPros would be nice.

As a MacPro owner, I do see a requirement for Thunderbolt - personally I'd prefer to own a single set of peripherals which I can use for both my desktop and laptop.

The implementation so far is that the Thunderbolt chip needs to be on the logic board, otherwise we should have seen a simple PCI-Express expansion card.

Intel has stated that there will not be any PCIe/Thunderbolt expansion cards, but it's not clear whether there are technical reasons for this, or whether it's a marketing move.

Intel haven't yet published detailed public specs for Thunderbolt - as far as I'm aware noone has yet independently verified the feasibility of implementing it on an expansion card for older computers.
 
Apple isn't in that habit - but the MacPro buyer selects that model so that they have PCIe expansion capabilities, and some reasonable method to upgrade and add new features. A thunderbolt expansion card for older MacPros would be nice.

As a MacPro owner, I do see a requirement for Thunderbolt - personally I'd prefer to own a single set of peripherals which I can use for both my desktop and laptop.

I agree, it would be nice.

I wouldn't hold my breath on it and may simply just upgrade to the newest Mac Pro, whenever it comes.

I suppose they will integrate two Mini-DisplayPort / Thunderbolt connectors accessible directly from the backplane. That way it doesn't matter what graphic card/s you use.
 
I wouldn't hold my breath on it and may simply just upgrade to the newest Mac Pro, whenever it comes.

I mainly bought my MacPro so that I could have a lot of fast disk space. Apart from a couple of apps I only use occasionally (like Handbrake), multi-core processing is still under-utilised in much of what I do.

Next time 'round I'll be more likely to get a laptop or iMac as my main machine, and use it with some sort of external Thunderbolt disk unit.
 
As a MacPro owner, I do see a requirement for Thunderbolt - personally I'd prefer to own a single set of peripherals which I can use for both my desktop and laptop.
This is the biggest reason to do so (TB on a desktop with slots). But keep in mind, this is a niche market within a niche in terms of the MP.

It has a larger audience IMO though, as other systems open up the consumer desktops with slots to sharing peripherals with laptops as well.

There's also another small note, but potentially of increasing importance over time, is the fact some product development will center around TB ports. Think video cameras (not just professional models) and cell phones for example (HTC ThunderBolt 4G Android is already on the market).

If there's no way to get a TB port in an existing desktop equipped with slots, then it could reduce the sales volume of such products, as I don't see consumers rushing out universally to replace their machines just to get a TB port in their machines.

Intel has stated that there will not be any PCIe/Thunderbolt expansion cards, but it's not clear whether there are technical reasons for this, or whether it's a marketing move.
I've seen it both ways (statement of NO was during the live feed by one person). Yet others stated it in a manner that contradicted this, and none of the official documentation on Intel's site states "No PCIe cards will be available".

Given the devices that are being designed around a TB port, not allowing a PCIe implementation would be a bad move for those vendors, and in turn, they'll pressure Intel to allow it at some point. Which I think is the key (happen later on).

The reason I suspect for the confusion, is to improve adoption rates. Imagine a simultaneous release of versions that do Data + Graphics signals and Data Only. It would be a mess (angry consumers that purchased Data Only solutions trying to run a monitor).

So by waiting, it helps adoption. It also buys them time to settle on a standard to implement a PCIe card, particularly if it's to obtain DP data off of the graphics card (interconnect specification between a TB card and GPU card). An alternative solution = place the TB chip on the graphics card itself (PCB surface area and cost issues that make the interconnect implementation between separate cards more practical IMO).

Intel haven't yet published detailed public specs for Thunderbolt - as far as I'm aware no one has yet independently verified the feasibility of implementing it on an expansion card for older computers.
It would be impossible for existing AIO's (no slots of any kind) that don't have a TB chip installed to get one.

But for systems with slots, it's technically possible at least for a Data Only implementation (it's just a PCIe 4x lane connection at this point, as the DP input pins will remain unconnected).
 
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This makes sony's method of integrating it into a usb port seem like a better idea, maybe they could do this for the Mac Pro??
 
This makes sony's method of integrating it into a usb port seem like a better idea, maybe they could do this for the Mac Pro??
The connector itself has no bearing on how TB could be implemented in a system with slots (whether they choose to use a USB 3.0 port or TB port, there's still the issue of Data Only vs. Data + Graphics output implementations).

In Sony's case, please understand that TB was originally tested with USB 3.0 connectors from what I understand (presume they hadn't settled on a port specification that's now the current ThunderBolt connector).

As per why Sony stuck with the previous implementation, it may have to do with whether or not they were cut out of the group creating the interconnect port specification (which I suspect), as they weren't part of the original developers of ThunderBolt (mostly Intel, but Apple <software> and a number of other companies that focused on the optical side <original developers under the LightPeak codename> were also involved). Speculative, but it makes the most sense to me.

Sony's choice isn't idea IMO, as now their customers will need a special cable (more profit for Sony, but makes consumers angry they need a special cable they may not be able to get locally).
 
There's also another small note, but potentially of increasing importance over time, is the fact some product development will center around TB ports. Think video cameras (not just professional models) and cell phones for example (HTC ThunderBolt 4G Android is already on the market).

Uhm, you do realize that HTC ThunderBolt is just the name of the phone, right? ;)
 
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I expect we will gave this free on thunderbolt Mac Pro.

13-52-24_0.688935.jpg

I agree.

I think the next MP will have standard GPU but the motherboard will have TB ports and if you need to use:

1. A Cinema Display -> Mixer wire as shown above.
2. A normal DP display -> Plug straight into GPU.
3. TB devices but not displays -> Plug straight into TB port.

I'd be very, very surprised if TB is integrated into the GPUs themselves!
 
Don't jump to conclusion. Mac Pro is different; it have a lot of room for expansion; however Apple method in implementing TB at Mac Pro can tell if all Mac Pro owners will be able to get it or not.

Oh sure, it's possible. But Apple System Profiler listing "Thunderbolt" doesn't mean anything.
 
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