Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I suspect they see such a move as the wrong direction for themselves (take focus away from the consumer market to a market they have a small presence in comparatively speaking with other vendors in the enterprise/professional segment).
...
I doubt it's even 50% of MP users that buy Apple branded monitors these days. So focusing on the consumer market (i.e. docking station for laptops) makes a lot more sense from their POV (much greater sales volume = larger contribution to the Gross Margin per Q/H/Y).

If Apple doesn't think making a straightforward display is worthwhile and the large majority of Mac Pro users aren't buying Apple displays anyway ..... why would Apple bend over backwards to put TB on a Mac Pro?

If going to exit the display business to get into the dockstation station business then just go. Put the normal, mainstream market display connectors (Display Port) connectors on the Mac Pro and ship it. More people buy non-Apple "displays" but that is where the market was going anyway. The only way for Apple to reverse that would be to get back to doing something in the subset of display market.


Apple could pick NEC (or someone whose displays Apple didn't hate) as being the standard parts vendor for the BTO configs. Apple used to sell printers. Now they sell other people's printers. That's not the "end of the pro world" for Apple or their customers. Neither does it say anything in particular about being dedicated to the "pro" market. If displays are commodities Apple isn't blocking anyone from using one anymore than they are blocking printer usage.

Since normal, current, workstation video cards come with multiple connectors, TB doesn't add anything at all to hooking up multiple displays. The fact you have to put the mainstream displays at the tail end of the TB chains makes all the more weird because add "stuff" between the Mac Pro and the display.



We'll have to wait and see, but I hope that the MDP port sticks around,

If most people are using 3rd party display port devices to hook to the Mac Pro why would they make it disappear? The card is still going to have ports.
Discrete graphics card vendors are shooting themselves in the head if they move to remove the ports from the edges of their cards and just pump video into the PC for Intel to distribute.


I'm sure Apple and Intel would like for all display device makers to standardize on TB connectors for the vast majority of their monitors. Apple would dump their offering ( it is an undistinguished commodity now) and Intel would have pushed for integrated graphics everywhere ( and have an even larger stranglehold on the graphics market. )

The rest of the Mac line up is a big enough enticing market to draw in some players if Apple wants to develop that market. Adding the Mac Pro isn't really going to make it that much larger a target ( what? 1-3% bigger. just a couple 100K bigger.). It wouldn't make much difference to wait till there is a better way of pair PCI-e and DP lanes without using any video cards (either integrated graphics or small/cheap embedded card) in a later Mac Pro. The mainstream workstation tower class boxes are probably the last are going to go TB. The Mac Pro jumping early really isn't going to help it all that much.

I think Mac Pro would get bigger bang by jumping to USB 3.0. Something in which is a serious laggard on. Rather than trying to push the workstation market to TB ... which it will likely fail to have any significant impact on in short-to-intermediate term.
 
TB solves a problem that Mac Pro's really don't have for the vast majority of Mac Pro users: PCI-e expandability.

I think you're missing the mark on this statement. I think we need inter device compatibility so that the mac pro doesn't feel even more abandoned. Mac pro users also own laptops, and some of them do have to pack up small hard drive enclosures for much needed storage and IO when away from the office. You want that same connection present in each machine to at the very least minimize clunkiness. The mac pro has a lot of other funky problems but I won't go into them. I just think Apple is trying to usher everyone away from that line because they view it as a dead form factor.
 
Reading all this the method that seems the most logical to me is the one that uses existing parts that we can already see in retail.

TB will be implemented on MP via integrated video just like all other Macs with integrated video.

MP will also include reference board ATI 6xxx or 7xxx series card with at least one MDP connector.

In this scenario video travels to MDP or TB monitor via ATI. The MP TB port still meets its specs of including video, but nobody really uses it. No weird shenanigans trying to port the ATI video to the main TB port.
 
if I'm reading this correctly, the new controllers are pure data – 2 or 4 10Gbps bidirectional channels.

No. DisplayPort is "data". So those controllers are for either 1 or 2 physical ports. Remember the DisplayPort "data" is reencoded into TB format for transport/routing and set out. That is giong to take at least one physical channel. Two if being routed out over two physical connectors. Or if want to engage two DisplayPort cables in legacy mode.

What is being glossed over in the anadtech article is the number of displays out depends upon how many DP lanes are hooked up to the input of the controller. The "Eagle Ridge" controller is probably smaller in part because it has less input pins.

Most likely the next rev is just a shrink of "Light Ridge" and they will just turn off one set of inputs and one set of outputs to differentiate on price.


all this is rather confusing...how can people easily differentiate between TB ports that support one, two, or no displays?

You can't just by looking at the outside. Part of this also a function of the GPU. If it can't drive 3 monitors ( internal , 2 external ) then it really doesn't matter what the TB controller chip can do or what the external ports physically look like. Can't get blood from a turnip.
 
I think you're missing the mark on this statement. I think we need inter device compatibility so that the mac pro doesn't feel even more abandoned.

The Mac Pro is a tool. It doesn't feel anything. It is really Mac Pro users that are suffering from sibling envy.

There is more to TB than PCI-e expansion, but that is the core value in the Mac Pro context. Overlooking the core value being deliver can lead to overly expensive solutions.


First, a person is suppose to run out and buy a brand new Mac Pro because they have a brand new MBP and a brand new TB only drive. That is a very expensive solution. It is also a bit of the tag wagging dog since many of the MBP+drive combos will be less than the MacPro setups. So you more than double the amount of outlay purely for the TB only drive.


Second, if interdevice compatibility is a primary objective pick a port that is on a wide variety of devices. Something llke eSATA is far more widespread and compatible ( eSATA TB dongle for MBP in field and a eSATA card in Mac Pro. problem solved. Can even use it with millions of other PCs too with minor software to read the file system. ) . Picking a port that no other system vendor currently supports is not perusing a compatibility solution vector. It is uniformity for uniformity sake.


Mac pro users also own laptops, and some of them do have to pack up small hard drive enclosures for much needed storage and IO when away from the office.

But how many need more that 5-6Gbps in "walking around" I/O? Not "like to have", but a hard requirement?

Some users several years ago had ExpressCard gadgets for their MBP. Did that means that small subset of folks ( MBP + ExpressCard + MP owner) drove an Express card socket to be added to the MacPro ? Didn't happen.
There are always going to be corner cases that the MacPro doesn't cover. The issue here is why does 60% ( or at least something higher than 40%) of the MacPro user require TB. It is not a contest of search for the corner cases.

I just think Apple is trying to usher everyone away from that line because they view it as a dead form factor.

They are going to usher a few more people away if have to saddle every Mac Pro with an embedded graphics processor so can being "consistently uniform" and raise prices across the board $100. For better or worse, there is more baggage than the TB controller when being added to a computer.
If Apple can deliver a sub $2,300 entry Mac Pro with embedded graphics then perhaps there is some upside to bending over backwards for TB. However, if all the base prices jump at least $100 then this is going to do more long term harm then good for the Mac Pro.


It is not a dead form factor. However, it is a form factor for which the vast majority of people do not need. But the vast majority of people aren't going to pay more $2000 for a personal computer either (at least now in the year 2011)
 
The Mac Pro is a tool. It doesn't feel anything. It is really Mac Pro users that are suffering from sibling envy.

Relax dude. I was saying with how obsessed Apple is about design and how things feel, having to introduce additional adapters just to share devices is dumb. You know it supports PCIe and display port protocols right? Routing through integrated graphics isn't the only solution there. Also it didn't budge the prices on the other lines when implemented.


It is not a dead form factor. However, it is a form factor for which the vast majority of people do not need. But the vast majority of people aren't going to pay more $2000 for a personal computer either (at least now in the year 2011)

I never called it a dead form factor, but Apple treats it that way. Remember the Xserve? They stopped paying attention to it and then just killed it when due for a refresh. They spend a lot more time taking care of mobile devices because those are their volume sales but people dropping $2500+ on a stock machine shouldn't just be ignored. Most people buying these towers buy them for work. This includes the G5 that preceded the Mac Pros.
 
Relax dude. I was saying with how obsessed Apple is about design and how things feel, having to introduce additional adapters just to share devices is dumb.

Apple's obsession is with being minimalist in some areas, but that does not include making dongles pop out the the other side.

The Apple Mac store section of "Graphics and displays" :
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/mac_accessories/displays

The very first product listed is a mDP to VGA adapter. Four out of the first six products listed are dongles. Anyone who want to interact with the large market of Graphics products on the market probably has a dongle or two to connect to Apple computers. If Apple was obsessed with minimizing the dongle market they wouldn't have mutated DP into "yet another" form factor. There is very little evidence to support your hypothesis.
You may think it is dumb, minimizing dongles is not one of the top primary objectives of Apple's core design criteria. In fact, it is often almost the opposite in trends to adopt connectors and ports that no one else has. (Apple Display connector, etc. )

Thinness is an Apple obsession. It pervades every other Mac design except the Mac Pro. If Apple were to cave to their obsession they'd kill off the Mac Pro because thinness is a conflicted goal for a $2,000+ workstation.



You know it supports PCIe and display port protocols right? Routing through integrated graphics isn't the only solution there. Also it didn't budge the prices on the other lines when implemented.

When Apple had to add discrete graphics to the MBP 15" to get around the integrated graphics problem the price jumped $100 (move from 9400M only 15" to the HD graphics + 330M 15" ). Apple isn't likely to add parts for free. They appear to be will to spend some treasure to push for TB, but if it is TB + something else, more than likely the will charge for the something else. Even if costs go up $20 the increase would be $100 since all prices "have to" end in 99. Frankly, the Mac Pro is glariing deficient on USB 3.0 also. So there isn't much of cost savings from other components that is going to be left over to "pay for" TB infrastructure + other stuff because not align with TB design assumptions.


Integrated graphics has little to do with this. TB essentially assumes that there is embedded (not to be removed and comes with every device) graphics. Whether that is a discrete (separate chip and VRAM) or integrated ( use main RAM ) implementation is immaterial. The side effect of integrated graphics into the Xeon is making the "additional cost " disappear , not any technical requirement.


Furthermore, you can not route DisplayPort protocols unless you create them in the first place. There has to be a source. A pipe-to-nowhere doesn't have alot of utility. Frankly, it also violates your uniform interface property also if the computer doesn't have DP stream(s) coming out of what is essentially a DisplayPort connector. That is probably part of the deal that Intel worked out with the DisplayPort folks. Always push display data out of every computer.

For a Mac Pro having two DisplayPort output is not a huge benefit. Two or more display outputs have been a staple of Mac Pro level machines for years. Adding a gratuitously more expensive solution to Mac Pros doesn't do them any service. The systems are already at the top of the expensive options. Pushing them higher so that they can be consistent with the lower priced models only endangers the Mac Pro even more.

Apple can add embedded graphics to the Mac Pro, but it if that doesn't also come with a cheaper Mac Pro option then all this is doing long term is kill off the Mac Pro faster.

I never called it a dead form factor, but Apple treats it that way.

No. It is not Apple. The whole PC market is walking away from big boxes with lots of slots. Has been for years. Apple is following where the people are going. Apple is not doing is trying to fight the trend.


Remember the Xserve? They stopped paying attention to it and then just killed it when due for a refresh

They did pay attention to it (it got features added over time. OS/Apps SSD drive way before any other machine, LOM , etc. ) and they killed it because not enough people were buying it. Growth collapsed and the product got killed. That is exactly what is flawed with pushing Mac Pro prices higher. Higher prices are going to make the value proposition harder which most likely will lead to stunted growth. Stunted growth leads to product death.


. They spend a lot more time taking care of mobile devices because those are their volume sales

It is not about volume it is about growth. No growth potential; no product. There is a volume component in that there is a minimum volume that Apple will mess with. Producing 50,000 machines is not a useful activity for Apple.


but people dropping $2500+ on a stock machine shouldn't just be ignored.

Apple likely makes over $100K per day and about a million a month on the interest on the cash hoard that they have. That is without selling or doing anything. Just roll out of bed in the morning ... boom $100K. All this posturing that Apple should bow and scrape for customers waving $2,500 in their face is humorous. A $25,000 purchase order isn't even a large lever. Should they be nice and engage in business? Yes. Desperate for your $2,500 ? No. Their $2,500 customers are no different than their $250 customers. Not some special Platinum Club, "prime time player" status.


The Mac Pro has gotten updates every year along side the other Mac models. What the Mac Pro hasn't gotten is "dog and pony" shows. That is lack of glitzy spin not added value.


Most people buying these towers buy them for work. This includes the G5 that preceded the Mac Pros.

Many currently field deployed, high disk bandwidth constrained jobs are using eSATA now. What they need is a solution besides the kludge ExpressCard to solve that problem. TB allows them to deploy any of the other Mac laptops instead of just being constrained to the MBP 17" with the storage subsystems they already have if can get hands on reasonably priced TB dock/dongle with eSATA.

There are a few folks who require field deployed >300MB/s streaming capture. The TB solution might work better for them, but I doubt that is a huge market driver.

What are going to see alot of is people doing exactly what Blackmagic has done. For example their intensity product line up.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

First there was a PCI-e solution. Then last year there came a USB 3.0 solution. Now there is a TB solution. The TB solution is largely the PCI-e card yanked out and put into a box.

Similarly, the high end storage box solutions appear to be what used to be a bundled PCI-e card + SAS/eSATA box refactored into a box where the PCI-e card is pushed internal to the exterior box.

If this trend expands to go deep into the lower end PCI-e card market that is a catch-22 for the Mac Pro. If the PCI-e card market dries up then the need for Mac Pro will take a large hit. The only way the Mac Pro is going to survive long term is not by duplicating previously unique abilities that have been moved down to the "lower end" models, but by staying out in front of the curve.

In short, there are higher priority things to get added to the next Mac Pro ( USB 3.0 , PCI-e v3.0 , etc) than TB. They can save that till the "next revision" when it is probably less expensive to implement. The Mac Pro is in much more need of differentiation than homogenization right now.
 
Given that TB is currently limited to 10 Gbps per channel and PCI-E express x16 is 500MBx16 = 8GB/second TB doesn't replace everything.

High end GPUs and RAID cards (especially with SSDs) are coming up to the PCI-E limit (way over what TB can provide) there will always be a requirement for PCI-E.

TB isn't a simple external replacement for PCI-E.

The Mac Pro now is simply for CPU power, GPU power and memory capacity.

No other Mac can supply all of them. It's as simple as that, and that is the reason why I don't think the Mac Pro is going anywhere.

It is also the reason why I think that the TB and mDP ports will be separate and that any TB enabled screens will use a mixer adapter.

Then we also have the issue of if the GPU is maxing out PCI-E 2 and then suddenly we need another 20Gbps through the GPU then we start impacting the GPUs performance.



Overall TB wasn't designed for the Mac Pro, and hence whatever solution we get in the 2011/2012 Mac Pro will have mDP and TB separate, with Apple including or selling some sort of mixer wire so that you can use it's ACD or anybody else's TB enabled monitors.
 
The Mac Pro is a tool. It doesn't feel anything. It is really Mac Pro users that are suffering from sibling envy.

There is more to TB than PCI-e expansion, but that is the core value in the Mac Pro context. Overlooking the core value being deliver can lead to overly expensive solutions.
It is not a dead form factor. However, it is a form factor for which the vast majority of people do not need. But the vast majority of people aren't going to pay more $2000 for a personal computer either (at least now in the year 2011)


hmmm. i see where you are coming from, but i am not quite sure i see eye to eye with you on that - and i dont think apple does either. if we look at the introduction of DP (mDP), apple marketed it towards combining peripherals and external devices into a more unifiable and simplistic operation (e.g. have 1 port to combine data + graphics + power, etc).

if we apply this same consumer-centric attention to TB, i believe apple will follow suit and target the "unifying" of devices, peripherals and units - for a cleaner and more simplistic desktop. you said it yourself, not many people want the "desktop" machine, with large amounts of cables etc - and i had more predicted that apple will continue that line of support. they state that TB can support 6 devices (and 1 display), etc. combine display, USB, fw, TB, PCI, power etc into the 1 cable - that is exactly what they want to do! so now the end user comes home from a long day at work, plugs 1 cable into their mac, and the devices plugged into their MacPro are detected simultaneously on their MBP (the display of the MBP comes up on the MPs display), and vice versa, the MBP uses the MPs GPU, yada yada yada.....

maybe...
 
and i dont think apple does either. if we look at the introduction of DP (mDP), apple marketed it towards combining peripherals and external devices into a more unifiable and simplistic operation (e.g. have 1 port to combine data + graphics + power, etc).

Errrrr, DisplayPort was introduced to market as an somewhat complementary alternative to HDMI. There is no significant power or general peripheral problem it set out to solve. HDMI has a small royalty and DP doesn't (this is where they are competitors). The initial versions of DP also lacked some of the "big bag of hurt" encryption controls that HDMI picked up ( but has since mostly relented on that front to forces that want them. ) Primarily it is targeted at replacing VGA, DVI, and , in some situations, localized internal LCD panel connectors.

The primary "combo" was similar to the one with HDMI to put audio and video on to the same cable. The "data transport" problem was a A/V data transport one.


In reality the inertia of VGA and DVI has blunted DP's adoption rate. Most PC still ship with VGA and DVI connectors even though many of the system vendors would like to "move on" to the next gen.


if we apply this same consumer-centric attention to TB,

There wasn't particularly a consumer centric attention above so not likely to be one here in TB either.


i believe apple will follow suit and target the "unifying" of devices, peripherals and units - for a cleaner and more simplistic desktop.

TB doesn't really solve the "fewer cables" on the desktop for the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro is already a consolidator all by itself. For example:

Mac Pro , two DVI cables to two monitors , and one cable to external direct attached storage box ( FW , eSATA , or SAS ).

proposed TB Mac Pro. Still got three cables. Perhaps daisy chained monitors but that doesn't reduce number of cables. The number didn't decrease.

The more simplistic desktop is the docking station situation. You bring your laptop home/work (transition to being stationary) and need to add several several different legacy connections to things that stay stationary (USB, wired ethernet , large monitor(s) ). You plug in TB and battery recharging connector and you done.

The problem applying that to a Mac Pro is that it doesn't move. Nor does it have highly restricted number and type of ports.

you said it yourself, not many people want the "desktop" machine, with large amounts of cables etc -

Cables is not what I was talking about. People want machines that pretty much enough to solve the problems they need to solve. It is a tool; not a tinkering box nor the base for some long term lego project.

plugs 1 cable into their mac, and the devices plugged into their MacPro are detected simultaneously on their MBP (the display of the MBP comes up on the MPs display),

TB doesn't really do this. There can only be one "computer" on a TB network. Now, you can make one computer play "dumb" ( turns off its CPU and/or top level PCI-e switch) but that's a "one or the other" kind of choice.
I doubt very much you can get the MBP to usurp the Mac Pro's displays by adding a computer. [ This is not going to be like where monitors accept two or more inputs and the user switches between. If anything, TB makes KVM set-ups more complicated; not less. ]

Nor sure the big benefit of adding a 13" (or 15" ) screen to a Mac Pro that could easily as substantially bigger screen for the MBP money with Target display mode.


The bulk of the TB lust here for the Mac Pro is more about the "speed" than the single cable. If eSATA and external SAS connections were 10Gbps and cheaper you'd see lots less lust.
 
Last edited:
So I don't know if anyone saw...

At IDC Intel was demoing Thunderbolt on Windows, and they were using a PCI Express card with Thunderbolt. When asked if when people would be able to buy PCI cards with Thunderbolt, they didn't go their usual denial route, and instead said they couldn't give a date yet.
 
TB isn't a simple external replacement for PCI-E.

TB is external PCI-e. It is not a viable replacement for high end 8x-16x cards but for mundane low end stuff the 4x bandwidth is plenty.


The Mac Pro now is simply for CPU power, GPU power and memory capacity.

No other Mac can supply all of them. It's as simple as that, and that is the reason why I don't think the Mac Pro is going anywhere.

That's not what is import. What is critical is how many folks workflows are in that space. There will always be some subset of folks in that upper 3D quadrant. But that quadrant is getting smaller with each iteration of the iMac. if the problem sizes stay relatively still and the whole Mac lineup keeps getting more GPU/GPU/memory with each iteration therein lies the problem. ( and yes there are some folks out there whose problems do. there are many others whose aren't. )





Overall TB wasn't designed for the Mac Pro, and hence whatever solution we get in the 2011/2012 Mac Pro will have mDP and TB separate, with Apple including or selling some sort of mixer wire so that you can use it's ACD or anybody else's TB enabled monitors.

Again the assumption is that Apple only sells TB monitors. The TB monitor is shipping and the mDP LED monitor is still in the store. If in two (or more ) months it is still there when new Mac Pro is announced this whole "tail wags dog" notion will have even less legs. Don't need a "reverse dongle" ( which I'm not sure is going to work since the controller may have other computer presumptions and pin inputs. ) isn't even necessary.


Intel tech hardware demo can be devcieving ( USB connectors with fiber cables anyone? ) but this demo

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/17/eyes-on-with-thunderbolt-on-windows-at-idf-2011-video/

is suggestive that someone may have conjoled a vendor to put TB and video onto a single card. They don't show where the TB cable goes into the box but it somewhat looks like it is going into a PCI-e card that looks alot like a video card. Whether that is a "laboratory tool" card or a product is unknown since the bigger push is like to be on the ultrabooks. ( same tech lead out as Apple did. ) It is a somewhat contrived demo for a tower box since the Intel PCI-e SSD card could just go into the box.... problem solved. Instead of using TB to get the cards PCI-e signals into the box.
 
Last edited:
MacPro ships with off-the-shelf video cards [albeit with reflashed firmware], and none of the ones on the market today support TB in any way, or have the ability to route DP to the motherboard. Doing so is a cool idea, but it would require agreement on a new electrical / connector design between Intel (who design the motherboard) and GPU manufacturers, and there has been no news of this whatsoever from Apple, Intel, ATI or nVidia.

Thus unlikely, at least in next 12 months...

Unless they've been working on it secretly with a partner that was sworn to secrecy.

It's the only solution that has an Apple level of elegance to it. Mobile graphics already do something like this, so it probably doesn't require any new standards. But it probably does require extensive modifications to existing design and all of the expense associated with that.
 
TB is external PCI-e. It is not a viable replacement for high end 8x-16x cards but for mundane low end stuff the 4x bandwidth is plenty.

Ergo, it's not a complete replacement :p

Your never going to be running the latest and greatest GPUs off it.


That's not what is import. What is critical is how many folks workflows are in that space. There will always be some subset of folks in that upper 3D quadrant. But that quadrant is getting smaller with each iteration of the iMac. if the problem sizes stay relatively still and the whole Mac lineup keeps getting more GPU/GPU/memory with each iteration therein lies the problem. ( and yes there are some folks out there whose problems do. there are many others whose aren't. )

I disagree, memory, CPU and GPU requirements increase year on year, and the iMac will never, ever have the power of the CPUs that the Mac Pro has. And for that reason I'd be extremely surprised if Apple dumped every power user.


Again the assumption is that Apple only sells TB monitors. The TB monitor is shipping and the mDP LED monitor is still in the store. If in two (or more ) months it is still there when new Mac Pro is announced this whole "tail wags dog" notion will have even less legs. Don't need a "reverse dongle" ( which I'm not sure is going to work since the controller may have other computer presumptions and pin inputs. ) isn't even necessary.

I know that the mDP is still selling, but for how long are they going to keep what are essentially identical monitors on sale?

It will probably be EOL'd when the new MP comes out as that is the only thing that can't use it at the moment.

Intel tech hardware demo can be devcieving ( USB connectors with fiber cables anyone? ) but this demo

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/17/eyes-on-with-thunderbolt-on-windows-at-idf-2011-video/

is suggestive that someone may have conjoled a vendor to put TB and video onto a single card. They don't show where the TB cable goes into the box but it somewhat looks like it is going into a PCI-e card that looks alot like a video card. Whether that is a "laboratory tool" card or a product is unknown since the bigger push is like to be on the ultrabooks. ( same tech lead out as Apple did. ) It is a somewhat contrived demo for a tower box since the Intel PCI-e SSD card could just go into the box.... problem solved. Instead of using TB to get the cards PCI-e signals into the box.

Again, I don't like the idea of having TB going through a high end GPU. If the GPU is using all x16 of PCIe 2 then adding another few 100 MB/sec onto it is going to have performance consequences.

On all the other machines the DP and LP are joined into a TB connector but the LP data comes from it's own PCI-e lanes. If it's on a GPU, it can't.




I'm really interested how Apple do eventually do this, but I really can't see it being a GPU mod.
 
Again, I don't like the idea of having TB going through a high end GPU. If the GPU is using all x16 of PCIe 2 then adding another few 100 MB/sec onto it is going to have performance consequences.

Apple has also had bad experiences with this sort of thing. Remember ADC? Running all that extra stuff across the AGP bus was a real PITA (and the ridiculous amount of extra electricity they had to push to power a CRT THROUGH THE CARD didn't help either.)
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.