HTC’s horrible start to 2015

[maflynn]

Interesting article about HTC over at Ars.

We reviewed the M9 a few months ago and it seemed like a disaster in the making. The HTC One M8, the company's 2014 flagship, didn't do very well in the market. A normal response would be to go back to the drawing board and revamp things, but for 2015 HTC changed very little. The M9 had a new SoC and cut gimmicky features like the Duo Camera system, but for the most part the M8 and M9 are so similar even HTC gets them confused in its advertising.

It seems HTC really hasn't been all that hungry, I thought this comment was spot on because I thought the same thing

For the past few years, the company has acted more like a complacent market leader with a best-selling smartphone. It's been taking the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to its phone design, keeping pretty much the same template for the M7, M8, and M9. When your market share only measures in the category of "other," though, things are very much broken. HTC's phones keep not selling, and the company keeps not changing them.

I was a fan of HTC's phones but I have to say unless they radically change things up, I don't see them being relevant in 2016.

 

[sc4rf4c3]

R.I.P HTC

 

[MRU]

The M9 is a great phone - but does absolutely nothing to really persuade existing HTC M8 owners to upgrade. You could argue that perhaps they were going for the 'S' version this year. But when your not Apple with their marketing budget and only maker of IOS devices - and are an android maker swimming in a vast sea of other android makers who have somewhat stolen much of the lustre in the year between the M8 & M9 - then yes without a shadow of doubt - they needed to do more.

They played it safe .... They played it so safe that the rest of the industry just walked past them with their slimmer, glass or metal designs which offered their users a somewhat bigger change. The M9 - just feels a bit Meh, especially for existing owners.


Another company I worry has made an even bigger mistake is Sony. The Z4/Z3+/ZV is arguably worse than the Z3 and likewise just looks 'exactly' like its predecessor with even less changes than the M8-M9.

What with alarming issues of overheating and things like Camera and apps being shut down - with performance despite 'better specs' actually seemingly much of a muchness to the Z3 except with the additional heating and instability - Sony have gone and done exactly what HTC have done with the M8/M9 but on a worse scale.

Sony was another company who likewise had been suffering sour profits especially in its mobile phone devision with 'scale backs' already touted - it seems they have scaled back too much and wonder if in another 12 months time we will be talking about both Sony & HTC exiting the mobile phone space. (on top of what is now inevitable - Microsoft/Nokia phone exit)

 

[jamezr]

Interesting article about HTC over at Ars.


It seems HTC really hasn't been all that hungry, I thought this comment was spot on because I thought the same thing



I was a fan of HTC's phones but I have to say unless they radically change things up, I don't see them being relevant in 2016.

They look like a company waiting to be bought out to me. There were rumors ASUS was interested but at this point they need to shake things up a bit and come out with some fresh ideas.

 

[maflynn]

Another company I worry has made an even bigger mistake is Sony.

Agreed, I think sony is in worse shape, in terms of market growth and market potential, but in Sony's case this is one division, where as HTC, the loss of the phone division will kill the company.

They look like a company waiting to be bought out to me. There were rumors ASUS was interested

Asus was kicking the tires, and word got out as noted by the article, yet when HTC rebuffed the buyout, their stock shrank on news that no buy out was going to occur.

 

[ucfgrad93]

I really liked my HTC One (M7). It was my first Android phone. Great design and specs, but the camera just totally sucked. Seems like they have only done very incremental updates since then. Even worse, they kept the ultra pixel camera around for the M8.

 

[iSheep5S]

I loved my HTC Desire HD. Pretty much the best on the market at the time. Shame to read this.

So what, is everyone buying Apple and Samsung?

 

[rockitdog]

HTC's biggest short coming is their pathetic attempts at marketing themselves and their devices. Sorry, Robert Downy Jr. isn't going to sell anyone phones with slogans like "If you don't believe me, ask the internet." WTF is that?? Their entire marking dept should be canned and turned over to a professional ad agency.

 

[gotluck]

I would buy an htc phone if it had a premium camera

the snapdragon 810 really hurt the m9 specifically as well

 

[MRU]

I would buy an htc phone if it had a premium camera

the snapdragon 810 really hurt the m9 specifically as well

In fairness never had a single issue with heat on the M9 with the Snapdragon 810.

Camera has improved dramatically with recent software/firmware update. Whilst it's not the best android camera by any means it's certainly the best camera HTC have used and one of the better on an android handset.

But the reality is .... Android world moves so fast that coming back with a device that looks nearly identical, with a device that despite faster processor (no one complains about speed on an M8) the only tangible difference was camera and that's just not enough when Samsung release a phone at the same time with radically changed design and a mammoth marketing budget.

The press responded with a meh! The customers responded with a meh! They designed a good phone but one that totally lacks the excitement and energy of the original M7 & M8. Without that 'ooo' factor there is no momentum to drive sales only mild apathy.

 

[gotluck]

In fairness never had a single issue with heat on the M9 with the Snapdragon 810.

Camera has improved dramatically with recent software/firmware update. Whilst it's not the best android camera by any means it's certainly the best camera HTC have used and one of the better on an android handset.

But the reality is .... Android world moves so fast that coming back with a device that looks nearly identical, with a device that despite faster processor (no one complains about speed on an M8) the only tangible difference was camera and that's just not enough when Samsung release a phone at the same time with radically changed design and a mammoth marketing budget.

The press responded with a meh! The customers responded with a meh! They designed a good phone but one that totally lacks the excitement and energy of the original M7 & M8. Without that 'ooo' factor there is no momentum to drive sales only mild apathy.

thats good to hear about the 810, I guess it's hard for me to accept the 810 in comparison to the exynos and A8 absolutely crushing it. I usually keep my phone for at least 2 years and next year I know id regret having the 810

I've read reports on the camera improving as well, there was a guy here in the m9 thread echoing your sentiments. Like you say though, it may be too little too late. If I was going to buy an htc phone right now it would probably be the m8 unfortunately, save a good bunch of cash and have the option to go gpe.

 

[Savor]

I was a fan of HTC myself but they never improved the camera on the M9 by that much and actually went backwards with the BATTERY LIFE. For years, HTC phones have gotten a bad rep for battery life and their prices are terrible just like Sony's. A $300+ for a HTC One mini 2 with a Snapdragon 400 with no double tap to wake when the LG G3 Beat is nearly the same size, same SoC, removable battery, and cost under $200? I actually do wish HTC can pull through but I found the one company that I find are much better than HTC since even if the mobile division isn't #1, they have other sources of income. I now wish upon a Lucky Goldstar...

Now G4 looks a little worse to me than G3 but I will keep supporting any OEM that still offers a removable battery now that the other major South Korean OEM followed the recent trends of DESIGN over anything useful first. And now everyone is copying the double to wake that LG made standard with KnockOn back in 2013. With HTC, they come up with fashionista smartphones that are harder to fix. I want phones that are BUILT to last. Not look good for awhile and then dispose it after a few years because the battery degraded so much, the cam was unbearable to use for its gen, resale value is awful, and the metal exterior has dents and scrapes you can't remove.

The Chinese are doing better than the Taiwanese. I believe Xiaomi, Huawei, Oppo, Meizu, and ZTE are making superior phones and more reasonable prices than HTC, ASUS, and Acer. Now ASUS has the affordable and popular Zenfone line. But Intel keeps it from reaching newer heights with GPU and the questionable battery life (esp on standby) minus Zenfone 6 with the 3300 mAh. And the cam and cheap built quality are quite glaring flaws on the well-priced Zenfone 2. And there is nothing Acer has done to really differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack.

Two years feels like yesterday in life, but feels like an eternity in tech. HTC stopped innovating since 2013. No FAST CHARGER out of the box. Sense is still a great Android skin but the reviewers can no longer praise HTC anymore to help promote sales. Even if the M7/M8 were blockbuster hits for HTC, they still don't approach the sales of Xiaomi's, original Sony Xperia Z (15M) or the much maligned Samsung Galaxy S5. The Sony PS Vita is considered a FLOP and even that sold 8-10M while the M9 only SHIPPED (not sold) half those numbers. Some parts, HTC's own fault. Some parts, the market is changing and HTC just can't compete against the Chinese in prices and Samsung, Apple, LG, and Sony in marketing, deeper pockets, and other venues.

 

[Savor]

I was a fan of HTC myself but they never improved the camera on the M9 by that much and actually went backwards with the BATTERY LIFE. For years, HTC phones have gotten a bad rep for battery life and their prices are terrible just like Sony's. A $300+ for a HTC One mini 2 with a Snapdragon 400 with no double tap to wake when the LG G3 Beat is nearly the same size, same SoC, removable battery, and cost under $200? I actually do wish HTC can pull through but I found the one company that I find are much better than HTC since even if the mobile division isn't #1, they have other sources of income. I now wish upon a Lucky Goldstar...

Now G4 looks a little worse to me than G3 but I will keep supporting any OEM that still offers a removable battery now that the other major South Korean OEM followed the recent trends of DESIGN over anything useful first. And now everyone is copying the double to wake that LG made standard with KnockOn back in 2013. With HTC, they come up with fashionista smartphones that are harder to fix. I want phones that are BUILT to last. Not look good for awhile and then dispose it after a few years because the battery degraded so much, the cam was unbearable to use for its gen, resale value is awful, and the metal exterior has dents and scrapes you can't remove.

The Chinese are doing better than the Taiwanese. I believe Xiaomi, Huawei, Oppo, Meizu, and ZTE are making superior phones and more reasonable prices than HTC, ASUS, and Acer. Now ASUS has the affordable and popular Zenfone line. But Intel keeps it from reaching newer heights with GPU and the questionable battery life (esp on standby) minus Zenfone 6 with the 3300 mAh. And the cam and cheap built quality are quite glaring flaws on the well-priced Zenfone 2. And there is nothing Acer has done to really differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack.

Two years feels like yesterday in life, but feels like an eternity in tech. HTC stopped innovating since 2013. No FAST CHARGER out of the box. Sense is still a great Android skin but the reviewers can no longer praise HTC anymore to help promote sales. Even if the M7/M8 were blockbuster hits for HTC, they still don't approach the sales of Xiaomi's, original Sony Xperia Z (15M) or the much maligned Samsung Galaxy S5. The Sony PS Vita is considered a FLOP and even that sold 8-10M while the M9 only SHIPPED (not sold) half those numbers. Some parts, HTC's own fault. Some parts, the market is changing and HTC just can't compete against the Chinese in prices and Samsung, Apple, LG, and Sony in marketing, deeper pockets, and other venues.

 

[maflynn]

HTC's biggest short coming is their pathetic attempts at marketing themselves and their devices. Sorry, Robert Downy Jr. isn't going to sell anyone phones with slogans like "If you don't believe me, ask the internet." WTF is that?? Their entire marking dept should be canned and turned over to a professional ad agency.

That was awful, I hated the stupid what does HTC stand for? Its like they couldn't sell the phone on its own specs so they tried to sell the company as cool so you should buy the phone.

 

[nj-morris]

What was really stupid was the M9+. The China exclusive phone that was released less than a month after the M9 which included features like a better screen, fingerprint scanner, the lot. Instead of talking about it, I'm going to let this video explain everything.

 

[SurferMan]

HTC has been teetering on the brink of dissolving for awhile now. Unless they get acquired by someone (and really, who would want to buy them, company doesn't have anything to entice interest), or get a huge private capital infusion for better development and marketing (which I also don't see happening on the scale needed). They played it safe with the M9 b/c they had no other choice, they couldn't afford the risk of doing anything else. And their marketing team is awful, like they all failed marketing 101.

Company needs a serious shakeup both capital wise and operations wise, or their going to be done for.

wsit - btw still have my HTC TyTn, actually was a Cingular 8525, in my office at home lol. Old school.... haha. Should see if it still works.

 

[DanGoh]

Such a shame. The M9 doesn't look like a bad phone. Sense 7 seems like the best Android skin, the all metal design, BoomSound speakers, UHOH protection. HTC is just a victim of their competition.

 

[petvas]

I agree that HTC's marketing has been really bad. HTC has no market recognition and judging by the M9, this is totally unfair. Yes, they played it safe, but we need to compare the M9 to other flagships.
What did LG and Sony do this year? They followed the same evolutionary path. What has Samsung been doing for years? Everybody has the same policy, but when HTC does the same everybody screams at them how they failed. Everything has to do with marketing..

HTC did a lot of mistakes this year. They released a device whose software wasn't ready. HTC should have waited till the software is ready. If they had done this, then they wouldn't get the bad critics about the camera. (which is much better now)
The M9 is still one of the best smartphones. Sense, Blinkfeed, the BoomSound speakers, all these features are really great. Add to that the great (but mostly unchanged) design, and actually we should have a winner here.
If the M9 was made by Samsung it would sell like hot cakes..

 

[nj-morris]

Such a shame. The M9 doesn't look like a bad phone. Sense 7 seems like the best Android skin, the all metal design, BoomSound speakers, UHOH protection. HTC is just a victim of their competition.

Yeah I agree. It just doesn't really have much differentiation from the M8. The M8 was popularly regarded as the best phone of 2014, and the M9 is just an average phone, while other companies like Samsung have definitely got it right with the S6.

 

[epicrayban]

Can't say any of this is a surprise.

They aren't Apple. They should stop pretending to be.

 

[jamezr]

HTC has some great phones. They have great design but horrible advertising and promotion.
They do not execute their vision very well. They need to be acquired by someone that will help these areas. Or they could end up like this.....

 

[mrex]

HTC has some great phones. They have great design but horrible advertising and promotion.

i was just about saying the same. when you say "HTC", i say "sorry?". this is the basic problem, only people who read forums about phones know htc. i dont remember seeing any ads at all.

and the company itself? i know about it as much as i know about the place to where my socks are disappearing from a washing machine.

 

[Savor]

I would actually feel fairly indifferent if HTC completely went away. They are probably one of the most dispensable Android OEM's out there. Their financial situation is harder to fix like their metal phones when they break. What they excel at, there are other alternatives.

DESIGN - Apple, Sony, Motorola, Oppo, and Huawei are just as good. Samsung and LG are getting better.

DISPLAY - HTC have excellent Super LCD's but LG is just as great.

SOUND - Apple, Sony, Samsung, and Motorola are just as good. BoomSound has never been the loudest. More robust but Samsung Galaxies and Motorolas are louder based on db levels.

SENSE - One of the better skins but purists probably prefer closer to stock for more updates. I use Nova anyway.

HTC usually sucks in BATTERY LIFE, CAMERA, and VALUE. Three important factors in buying a new phone.

If the smartphone and Android pioneer in HTC went away, I really wouldn't be hurt by it. I've seen Palm go away. Motorola and Nokia have contributed more into the mobile industry and keep chugging along. I remember seeing SEGA leave the console hardware business but it was sorta expected. HTC relied too much on another SoC maker and another OS while never excelling in areas that could be important to users.

It would affect us more if say Apple, Samsung, and Google went away. They have other markets they cater to. They have hundreds of millions of users while HTC in their prime were never that BIG except in Taiwan and North America. Even Microsoft, Sony, and LG to a certain extent would be greater losses if they went away. Remember when IBM were BIG? Now nobody talks about them much in tech. If HTC has a demise, the only industry it is affecting is the mobile industry. And there are so many other players to take their place.

In the mobile industry, you can never really get attached to any company. You can love them today and hate them tomorrow. Industry moves quick, users become fickle with short-attention spans and get bored easily, and so many brands rotating on a lazy susan ready to be sampled.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Agreed, I think sony is in worse shape, in terms of market growth and market potential, but in Sony's case this is one division, where as HTC, the loss of the phone division will kill the company.

I always found Sony's phones and Android skin to be attractive. Don't know why they didn't sell more.

Just a wild guess, but seems like Sony is getting hit in more than just the smartphone division. I bet TVs too. Seems like Samsung and lesser known brands are kicking Sony's ass in sales.

 

[petvas]

I would actually feel fairly indifferent if HTC completely went away. They are probably one of the most dispensable Android OEM's out there. Their financial situation is harder to fix like their metal phones when they break. What they excel at, there are other alternatives.

DESIGN - Apple, Sony, Motorola, Oppo, and Huawei are just as good. Samsung and LG are getting better.

DISPLAY - HTC have excellent Super LCD's but LG is just as great.

SOUND - Apple, Sony, Samsung, and Motorola are just as good. BoomSound has never been the loudest. More robust but Samsung Galaxies and Motorolas are louder based on db levels.

SENSE - One of the better skins but purists probably prefer closer to stock for more updates. I use Nova anyway.

HTC usually sucks in BATTERY LIFE, CAMERA, and VALUE. Three important factors in buying a new phone.

If the smartphone and Android pioneer in HTC went away, I really wouldn't be hurt by it. I've seen Palm go away. Motorola and Nokia have contributed more into the mobile industry and keep chugging along. I remember seeing SEGA leave the console hardware business but it was sorta expected. HTC relied too much on another SoC maker and another OS while never excelling in areas that could be important to users.

It would affect us more if say Apple, Samsung, and Google went away. They have other markets they cater to. They have hundreds of millions of users while HTC in their prime were never that BIG except in Taiwan and North America. Even Microsoft, Sony, and LG to a certain extent would be greater losses if they went away. Remember when IBM were BIG? Now nobody talks about them much in tech. If HTC has a demise, the only industry it is affecting is the mobile industry. And there are so many other players to take their place.

In the mobile industry, you can never really get attached to any company. You can love them today and hate them tomorrow. Industry moves quick, users become fickle with short-attention spans and get bored easily, and so many brands rotating on a lazy susan ready to be sampled.

I disagree.

Designwise HTC phones are the best. Of course there are others designing great phones too, but once you hold an HTC One in the hand, you understand the difference.

In the display department HTC is lagging behind. The iPhone 6 has a better display, and of course the S6 has the best display out there. The M9 has a good display, but not on par.

The M9's sound is just amazing. You said that it's not loud enough, but since when is loudness a quality criterium? Sounds in the M9 are deep and clear. There is just no comparison with anything else on the market.

The Sense UI is very good. We agree on that.

Battery life has improved dramatically with the firmware updates. It's much better than the iPhone 6.

Camera has also improved a lot. It's still not as good as the iPhone's, but especially in daylight you can take great pictures with the M9. Video recording is bad though.

Resale value is an issue with all Android phones. Only the iPhone retains its value..

I hope HTC learns from past mistakes and recovers..