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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
With a Mac Pro, I think Apple is going to have to have something undeniably competitive. M1 Max, and likely M1 Ultra, have too many gaps and places the performance doesn't hold up.

Kind of why I think, or hope, Apple does something discrete or MPX-y. By my math, Jade4c wouldn't cut it for something that is generally competitive with the AMD 7000 or Nvidia 4000 series. They'd need Jade8c for something that is generally competitive. Because much like M1 Max, I'm guessing the M1 Ultra vs 3090 benchmarking only holds up under certain workflows and not generally.

Most of AMD 7000 and Nvidia 4000 series would get covered. Generally both series are moving what was formerly at the top end down to the upper-middle range. So something akin to 3090 ---> 4070-4060 , 6900 --> 7700. and the lowest end stuff in the range falls mostly just falls off a cliff (or gets tagged as mobile only dGPUs). [ The iGPUs on the AMD and Intel processors for laptops are moving up in performance coverage. And APU/big-iGPU works for low end desktops for non gamers also. ]

So being in a 3090-3080 range would also Apple to compete with most of the next gen line up. And in terms of actual deployed units, extremely likely well over half of the actual units used by users. The numbers of 3090/6900 that Nvidia/AMD sell is way different than their lower half of the line up; much smaller.

Q1 '21. $12.5B aggregate and 11.8M in units average out to 1059. ( however, if look at the Workstation GPU average price can average is not going to be near the median. Large chunk of revenue comes from highly marked up workstation cards. We would need standard deviation to get better sense of the what the median is' but it is probably lower as low-mid range workstation cards grossly over contribute to the revenues. Just look at the price of the W5700X and W6600 modules ( $1,000 and $700).


but even with the noise the average comes out between mid-range and high end cards. Exactly the stuff the next gen will iterate down to.

Apple would only need a 7800 or 4080 killer if wanted bragging rights ; not high unit sales. Similar to how Intel's initial stab at there Alchemist cards is stopping around the 3070/5700 range. Get the drivers on a solid track and application 'by in' . Next iteration take another notch. Next iteration take another notch after that. (ignoring the 'cost no objective' he-XPC ponte vechhio stuff. )

With M3 Apple will get to iterate on the GPU cores with TSMC N3 and perhaps LPDDR5 improvements, while Nvidia and AMD are on N5. They don't have to go discrete to increment. Don't have to crank the P core count up to 32 either if want a GPU 'killer' for the mid-upper range ( dial back on the P/E cores on an optional die combo. ) .

Apple wants to be king of the iGPU . They are probably never going to top the. A100/MI200/Xe-HPC ( computational class) mega aggregate die area cards with real HBM (or bleeding edge GDDRX ).

Seems like there would be way less R&D for Apple is just let the 7900 and mid range Intel GPUs in the door with signed drivers for at least GPGPU only modules. Would be able to get the GPU compute grunt for zero silicon expenditure. If gave them a framework API hooks so that they could add OpenCL/CUDA/OneAPI compute frameworks back in 100% on their own dime that would probably be useful too as compute modules. [ again though. WWDC 2022 will tell. IMHO Apple building even more low volume silicon to chase the lower volume silicon of AMD/Nvidia/Intel seems like a waste of time and effort. low-to-upper-mid range is strategic. The rest of that is a 'nice to have if cheap enough' icing on the cake. Even less so if there are less expensive options. ]


But if they did some sort of discrete modules that's just a ton of GPU cores shoved onto a card with a giant heat sink - like an MPX module - that seems obtainable.

technically doable but what are really buying? It is not volume. Apple is highly likely to slap some $2+ K price on it.

Also might make sense because the CPU performance that Apple's delivering would be quite good for a Mac Pro. It's just the GPU thats a problem.

If the on-die inter-function unit bus and memory bus and/or UltraFusion connector are a bottleneck then TSMC N3 and memory upgrade and incrementally bigger die (but still smaller than a 3090 die) would help uncork those by just following the technology improvement curve.

What AMD and Nvidia are doing at the top end of the 7000 and 4000 series is just throwing gobs of die area and power (and much higher prices) at the problem. I doubt Apple can actually compete there toe-to-toe in that with their "perf/watt" primary directive. Non uniform , non homogenous memory GPU from Apple is not going to synergize well with the rest of the line up.

Bragging rights dGPU card versus. VR/AR goggles lite and low power enough so no huge battery and bulky over-the-head strap. I'd would suspect Apple was far more interested in the latter than the former.
 

edanuff

macrumors 6502a
Oct 30, 2008
578
259
Bragging rights dGPU card versus. VR/AR goggles lite and low power enough so no huge battery and bulky over-the-head strap. I'd would suspect Apple was far more interested in the latter than the former.

Almost certainly about creating the future chipset for battery-powered AR/VR GPUs and the AI for self-driving cars. Probably every dime of R&D on high end Apple Silicon is towards those goals with the happy side goal of powering the desktop line.
 
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Grumply

macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2017
285
194
Melbourne, Australia
The CPU even at 28 Cores were already non-competitive when introduced.

You can upgrade to 1.5TB, PCIE RAID, and quad PCIE graphics, however the more efficient silicon with higher bandwidth overcomes it, like 'quality over quantity'.

Except that's not actually the case for all things - only certain things, in certain workflows.

I work in Davinci Resolve (so I'll stick to examples from that, as it's my one significant frame of reference). The media engines in the M1 Max and M1 Ultra certainly offer significantly improved export times for the Prores and H264 formats, but realtime playback speeds (which are FAR more important for people's daily work than export times) on the M1 Max can't keep up with the raw computing grunt required to match a specced up 7,1.

We're yet to see tests that show if the M1 Ultra can pull level for realtime playback with a 7,1 with beefy GPUs, but even if it does, there's still a good chance that the next generation of GPUs might tip the scales back in the 7,1's favour anyway (at which point the M1 Ultra, not being upgradable - will fall permanently behind in that important metric).

There's nothing magic about any of this, they're just computers that handle their processing in different ways - and those different ways of processing offer different advantages (and disadvantages) for different tasks.

And those differences matter, because (depending on each person's specific workflows and requirements) either option might be more suitable.

Now if the posited Quad-M1 Max/M1 Ultra-Duo Mac Pro does come out, then the 7,1 will be completely out-performed, because even with scaling efficiency losses, the raw computing power of four of those SOCs combined, should beat almost anything the 7,1 can do, even stuffed full of GPUs.

But today? When the options are between the 7,1 or the M1 Ultra, it's not a clear-cut decision - because there are still things the 7,1 can do better.

It all depends on each person's SPECIFIC workflow requirements. And without testing those specific requirements no one can unequivocally call the M1 Ultra better at all things. ?‍♂️
 

rondocap

macrumors 6502a
Jun 18, 2011
542
341
Except that's not actually the case for all things - only certain things, in certain workflows.

I work in Davinci Resolve (so I'll stick to examples from that, as it's my one significant frame of reference). The media engines in the M1 Max and M1 Ultra certainly offer significantly improved export times for the Prores and H264 formats, but realtime playback speeds (which are FAR more important for people's daily work than export times) on the M1 Max can't keep up with the raw computing grunt required to match a specced up 7,1.

We're yet to see tests that show if the M1 Ultra can pull level for realtime playback with a 7,1 with beefy GPUs, but even if it does, there's still a good chance that the next generation of GPUs might tip the scales back in the 7,1's favour anyway (at which point the M1 Ultra, not being upgradable - will fall permanently behind in that important metric).

There's nothing magic about any of this, they're just computers that handle their processing in different ways - and those different ways of processing offer different advantages (and disadvantages) for different tasks.

And those differences matter, because (depending on each person's specific workflows and requirements) either option might be more suitable.

Now if the posited Quad-M1 Max/M1 Ultra-Duo Mac Pro does come out, then the 7,1 will be completely out-performed, because even with scaling efficiency losses, the raw computing power of four of those SOCs combined, should beat almost anything the 7,1 can do, even stuffed full of GPUs.

But today? When the options are between the 7,1 or the M1 Ultra, it's not a clear-cut decision - because there are still things the 7,1 can do better.

It all depends on each person's SPECIFIC workflow requirements. And without testing those specific requirements no one can unequivocally call the M1 Ultra better at all things. ?‍♂️
Well said, here's a clear cut example:

For 8K R3D Raw, the M1 Ultra can't play back smoothly in FCP or Resolve without dropping frames, it gets around 14 FPS.

On a 28 core, W6800x Duo Mac Pro, it plays back perfectly, getting around 43 FPS - 3 times more.

Same 2-3x holds true for other tasks like exporting, too.

This is r3d Raw, Pro Res is in the favor of the Mac Studio Ultra
 

jvlfilms

macrumors 6502
Dec 11, 2007
269
231
Staten Island, NY
Well said, here's a clear cut example:

For 8K R3D Raw, the M1 Ultra can't play back smoothly in FCP or Resolve without dropping frames, it gets around 14 FPS.

On a 28 core, W6800x Duo Mac Pro, it plays back perfectly, getting around 43 FPS - 3 times more.

Same 2-3x holds true for other tasks like exporting, too.

This is r3d Raw, Pro Res is in the favor of the Mac Studio Ultra

It'll be really interesting to see how the upcoming "Mac Pro" compares to the current one in regards to tests like these.

The Studio is not designed to be a Mac Pro replacement. The entire machine probably costs as much as the GPU upgrade alone - so of course it won't perform as nicely as a $20k+ system. But for most people and I actually mean most the performance and I/O of the Studio will be more than enough.

For actual "pro" users I wonder how they'll incorporate PCIe expandability because as you state, dGPU's offer unparalleled performance (especially in combination with Apple Silicon)
 
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dontpokebearz

macrumors regular
Feb 16, 2018
155
108
Maine
It's really funny you mention this because my aging 5,1 and announcement of the studio kind of solidified my desire to get a 2019. And I have a M1 Max MBP :)

The Mac Pro 7,1 will be the last machine to have Intel/Windows support for the foreseeable future and that's really something people need for their workflows. Yes, the Studio is immensely powerful for such a tiny machine and is more than enough for most people... until you want to use a specific audio card or PCIe card. Until you need to boot into another OS. Until you want more internal storage.

People, like myself, are still finding ways to use their 5,1 in 2022 so the 7,1 has plenty of life left in it before being obsolete.
I still use the 5,1 and it works for my needs. There are many updates I can make to it as well to make it a better, faster machine.

Apple Silicon is great, but the fact that I'm using a 2009 machine in 2022 and it still feels fast enough is crazy. It's all due to the modularity of it. That won't happen with Apple Silicon. So like you said, my desire to get the 2019 MacPro is higher. Being able to dual boot, run native VM's and have plenty of expansion down the road is really appealing.

Unless the skeptics (including myself) are wrong regarding expansion with the AS Mac Pro, it's a sad day. We'll all have to just get over the desire for expansion and cross-bootability or switch to Windows/Linux.
 
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Pezimak

macrumors 68040
May 1, 2021
3,446
3,845
Well, Luke Miami just uploaded a video, and it has been proved you cannot upgrade the Mac Studio internal storage what so ever, Apple has used dumb drives with no controllers, the controllers are on the main board and the entire thing locked down with firmware, the most anyone has done is basically swap the same drive from one Mac Studio into another which had the same drive I.E. 1 terabyte for 1 terabyte. So it’s totally none user upgradable apart from plugging in devices.
To me that makes the Mac Pro still worth its weight in gold. Because you can repair it or upgrade it yourself even once Apple EOL it, unlike the Mac Studio currently.

The locked down none user serviceable or upgradable path Apple has taken with its M1 Macs doesn’t bode well for the Apple Silicon Mac Pro.
 
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goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
Well, Luke Miami just uploaded a video, and it has been proved you cannot upgrade the Mac Studio internal storage what so ever, Apple has used dumb drives with no controllers, the controllers are on the main board and the entire thing locked down with firmware, the most anyone has done is basically swap the same drive from Mac Studio into another which had the same drive I.E. 1 terabyte for 1 terabyte. So it’s totally none user upgradable apart from plugging in devices.
To me that makes the Mac Pro still worth its weight in gold. Because you can repair it or upgrade it yourself even once Apple EOL it, unlike the Mac Studio currently.

FWIW - The Mac Pro has the exact same system with the same "dumb" drives. Just without a software lock (although I'm still not convinced that it's maybe not just a glitch with DFU/Configurator.) But even with a Mac Pro you need to authenticate with Apple to do the internal storage upgrade unless you buy a PCIe card or something.

The Mac Pro even probably uses the same, or at least a very similar controller. The storage controller on a Mac Pro is T2 - so storage on the Mac Pro is also controlled by Apple Silicon.
 

sn1p3r845

macrumors regular
Feb 9, 2012
216
108
Vancouver, BC
I think the Mac Studio hit the nail on the head in the right market. The problem before was it went from iMac Pro which was a consumer machine to Balls Out Mac Pro. That was a HUGE jump leaving people in the middle. I thought I was waiting for a new Mac Pro, but watching the announcement it was very, very clear that the Mac Studio was right for me. People who need these crazy cards will get what they need later. Yes, the Mac Studio does leap the 7,1 in some performance but not utility.
 

cloudphrenia

Cancelled
Nov 17, 2020
84
408
I disagree that the iMac Pro was a consumer machine; if anything the Mac studio is a consumer machine. The iMac Pro can still hold its own against the high-end M1 macs. In addition, the iMP has ECC RAM, user upgradable storage, CPU, and RAM. The iMP also supports eGPUs for even more power.

Up until it was discontinued, the 6,1 served as a great workstation for people in the middle, and it still is a great middle ground today. If someone is looking for a new middle ground Mac, they can still pick up a 2018 Mac mini. It has a decent amount of RAM, and you can load up on GPUs or PCI cards using eGPU enclosures.
 
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ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
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FWIW - The Mac Pro has the exact same system with the same "dumb" drives. Just without a software lock (although I'm still not convinced that it's maybe not just a glitch with DFU/Configurator.) But even with a Mac Pro you need to authenticate with Apple to do the internal storage upgrade unless you buy a PCIe card or something.

The Mac Pro even probably uses the same, or at least a very similar controller. The storage controller on a Mac Pro is T2 - so storage on the Mac Pro is also controlled by Apple Silicon.

I agree with this and because it's the same as the Mac Pro what is likely is that apple will later announce that the SSD is in fact upgradable. Remember, when the 2019 Mac Pro first came out, no upgrades were announced. I think it was over a month after introduction, they announced an 8GB kit (which wasn't available initially) and that they will let Mac pro's upgrade. However, they have some software that marries the upgrade kit to the Mac Pro, if I recall, and I suspect it's basically the same thing here with the Mac Studio. That a month from now, they will likely announce the possibility of upgrade.

Of course, in the mean time, they reap the benefits of everyone upselling themselves in storage because it's not clear if upgrades are possible...
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
FWIW - The Mac Pro has the exact same system with the same "dumb" drives. Just without a software lock (although I'm still not convinced that it's maybe not just a glitch with DFU/Configurator.) But even with a Mac Pro you need to authenticate with Apple to do the internal storage upgrade unless you buy a PCIe card or something.

Not a glitch with DFU/Configurator. The Mac Pro doesn't allow you to put two '1' NAND cards into it either. The daughter cards are slot specific and most of the "genius" video bloggers are trying to 'borrow' one primary NAND card from a demo unit to put into another demo unit ( so have two '1' and don't have an exact match '1' and '2' pair placed in the correct slots..... so it fails. Fails on Mac Pro 2019 too. It is all in the docs that have been out for over year ... but reading the manual doesn't generate ad views and hype on the internet. )
 

DrEGPU

macrumors regular
Apr 17, 2020
192
82
^^^^Yep:


Lou
This is a security feature that is well-documented (albeit not well-publicized). This prevents someone from grabbing the ssd, making a sector by sector (or block by block) copy to decrypt later. You replace it and no one’s the wiser. Make no mistake, all crypto is breakable with enough time and computing power. Like others have pointed out, this is pretty much how the 2019 7,1 Mac Pro works. The ssd is controlled and logged by the T2 chip, so it can’t easily be switched… for increased security.

Also, not an Apple fanboi. Ditched my Mac “Pro” because data science isn’t considered professional by Apple, apparently. Only AV is professional? What?
 
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flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,322
3,003
^^^^In a NcMP really makes no nevermind. Even though you can change the Apple SSD, a convoluted process. The upgrade kit is available only from Apple and to upgrade you need another Mac?

But, the NcMP has PCI slots and room for an internal expansion cage. My Mac has ten internal SSDs, The OEM, which I don't use, Six M.2 are mounted on two PCI cards, and three 2.5" are mounted in a cage.

Lou
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,344
2,975
Australia
This is a security feature that is well-documented (albeit not well-publicized).

This is possibly the one place I give Apple the benefit of the doubt - they're not going to come out and say "we designed this so the security services of your own country have a harder time spying on you".

Of course:

security.png


But, configurator should still be an iPhone app.
 
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goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
This is a security feature that is well-documented (albeit not well-publicized). This prevents someone from grabbing the ssd, making a sector by sector (or block by block) copy to decrypt later. You replace it and no one’s the wiser. Make no mistake, all crypto is breakable with enough time and computing power. Like others have pointed out, this is pretty much how the 2019 7,1 Mac Pro works. The ssd is controlled and logged by the T2 chip, so it can’t easily be switched… for increased security.

The DFU reinstall/authentication is not really even a crypto thing. I mean it's related to encryption - kind of?

A Mac Pro has a background version of iOS running constantly. That's your system management controller. It does things like run your boot screen, control storage, etc etc. It's a copy of iOS that's always running. Even if your computer is shut down. As long as it's plugged into power, your Mac Pro is running iOS to do things like lights out management. When your Mac Pro first boots - it boots to iOS. Not macOS.

So the trick if you reinstall storage is you actually need to reinstall the base iOS install before you install macOS. Otherwise there isn't anything to control the boot process or the system management in your computer.

And that's what Configurator is doing. You have to plugin your Mac Pro into another Mac, and basically restore iOS to it and then authenticate it to Apple just like any other iOS device. It's not a mystery or conspiracy - it's that you need to install the basic operating system that your computer needs to function. It's almost the same process you go through when restoring an iPhone, using the same tooling.

Apple Silicon is a little different, but still kind of the same. Apple Silicon doesn't need a shadow copy of iOS - but macOS on Apple Silicon follows a very similar install process to iOS.
 
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Pezimak

macrumors 68040
May 1, 2021
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FWIW - The Mac Pro has the exact same system with the same "dumb" drives. Just without a software lock (although I'm still not convinced that it's maybe not just a glitch with DFU/Configurator.) But even with a Mac Pro you need to authenticate with Apple to do the internal storage upgrade unless you buy a PCIe card or something.

The Mac Pro even probably uses the same, or at least a very similar controller. The storage controller on a Mac Pro is T2 - so storage on the Mac Pro is also controlled by Apple Silicon.

But with a Mac Pro you can buy an internal drive cage and plug whatever you like in it or use a PCIE card. Reading the comments it seems confusing about weather or not you can upgrade the Mac Pro default SSD?
 
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TrevorR90

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2009
379
299
But with a Mac Pro you can buy an internal drive cage and plug whatever you like in it or use a PCIE card. Reading the comments it seems confusing about weather or not you can upgrade the Mac Pro default SSD?
You can upgrade the mac pro default ssd, but it requires another mac to be connected to it.

I did this with my current mac pro. I upgraded to 2tb (got a killer deal on Amazon for the oem) and installed it. However, you need to connect a mac that has Apple configurator capability to initilize the SSD.

So, its not as easy as just swapping it.
 

chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,426
2,110
Berlin
Does anyone have any ideas what the resell value for a 16c, 2x Vega Pro, 192GB, 8TB internal SSD Sonnet 4x4 Mac Pro will be this fall, when a new one gets announced? The temptation to slap a new 28c CPU and another GPU in there is real, but then again it feels pointless when the new one comes so soon..
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
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Does anyone have any ideas what the resell value for a 16c, 2x Vega Pro, 192GB, 8TB internal SSD Sonnet 4x4 Mac Pro will be this fall, when a new one gets announced? The temptation to slap a new 28c CPU and another GPU in there is real, but then again it feels pointless when the new one comes so soon..
I think it depends on what the specs of the new machine are. For example, if the new machine offers no slots, 2019 Mac pro's will become unobtainium. If the new Mac Pro has slots and is in every way superior, their prices will crater.
 
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mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
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Australia
I think it depends on what the specs of the new machine are. For example, if the new machine offers no slots, 2019 Mac pro's will become unobtainium. If the new Mac Pro has slots and is in every way superior, their prices will crater.

I can tell you that in Australia, 5,1s are now more expensive than 6,1s on the secondhand market.

The things Apple claims have value - higher scores in Apple's specific flavour of the moment benchmark codec, don't seem to hold value when reconfigurable hardware performance lasts longer than any codec/benchmark paradigm.
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
I can tell you that in Australia, 5,1s are now more expensive than 6,1s on the secondhand market.

The things Apple claims have value - higher scores in Apple's specific flavour of the moment benchmark codec, don't seem to hold value when reconfigurable hardware performance lasts longer than any codec/benchmark paradigm.

Supply influences 'price' at least as much as 'value' does. There are fewer 2009-2012 (5,1 ) models in the market now than 2013's (6,1). That will change the pricing. There was a time when 5,1 was lower than 6,1. At this point, proper parts are drying up, NVRAMs are wearing out, some systems are being sent to recycling (taking out of the market completely) , and hyer-modular-on-tight-budget folks are clinging even harder to their old systems ( where can change firmware and stuff wide range of random stuff into container. )

Supply not a factor? Tell that to the dGPU market over last couple of years. Or a mint condition 1967 Shelby Mustang is worth more than a 2019 'regular V8' Mustang. Or a 'Fantastic Four' #54 July 1966 comic is worth more than a post 2010 'Fantastic four' comic . "Collectible value" is different than "workload processing value" both are expressed in money on the market, but different 'value' drivers.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Does anyone have any ideas what the resell value for a 16c, 2x Vega Pro, 192GB, 8TB internal SSD Sonnet 4x4 Mac Pro will be this fall, when a new one gets announced? The temptation to slap a new 28c CPU and another GPU in there is real, but then again it feels pointless when the new one comes so soon..

If the Mac Pro 2022-23 has slots then may not want to let go of that Sonnet 4x4; which would change the price. 2x Vega Pro may not be much of a value add. Selling one Vega off (with InfinityFabric bracket) independently and lower the overall system price may be a bigger sum if independent shipping and sales overhead are not too high. The number of folks who want to buy a hyper-specialized MP is smaller than folks looking for a 'starting point' in a MP.


Doom and gloom pricing collapse is always predicted on pricing when a new Mac Pro gets released. That tends not to happen in a very large way ( some limited percentage drop, but not instant fire sales. ). Typically there is a more substantive drop when a system is very close to or has explicitly gone on the 'Vintage/Obsolete' list that there is a drop for a number of years. The bubble bursts on "can keep this forever' notion, the supply goes up for a while and the price goes down.

Right now it is pretty unclear. If Apple doesn't all 3rd party dGPUs (or any dGPUs) on the next Mac Pro then there isn't going to be a huge dumping of systems for the new ones. (even if Apple doesn't preview a MP at WWDC 2022 the macOS guidance on the GPU driver stack probably will indicate where going.) . The native boot into Windows appears even more doomed over long term. (even official supported virutalization is on a super slow boat to China. )

On hardware front, it is still a bit fuzzy if the Mac Studio is the "half sized" Mac Pro. [ that is not even close to 'half sized' ; much smaller. ]. If Apple drops a RDNA2-refresh or RNDA update into MPX modules and sells for another year or so alongside the "half sized' MP then the 'used' supply isn't going to increase much either.

Some folks just won't let go of being able to native dual boot into Windows (and a subset of that to use their Nvidia GPU). Some folks are "modularity" value as a priority. Lots folks haven't even truly gotten to breakeven ( bought Mac Pro along with ton of other expenses and writing it all down over time). For folks that have paid off the Mac Pro 2019 , more than a few will keep it around as a secondary/back-up/network-workload-node box (time to shuffle the MP 2012/13 out of the door that 'backed up' the 2019.).

Video editors who are very highly skewed to H.264/265 and/or ProRes workloads probably will dump in higher numbers, but was that really the core base of MP 2019 users? (Especially folks highly doing H.264/265 ).


The high price of the MP 2019 means there are fewer systems deployed over 3 years than in past MP generations. (the Osborne effect of 40 core monster just around the corner probably isn't helping either). So the supply of used systems is relatively low. That will prop up used pricing in general across the market.



P.S. if have highly 'overpaid' for this MP and are chasing optimal used system sell timing to recover 'sunk costs' that are 'too high' to jump to a new MP system that is 'too high', then that is a problem that isn't solved by the setting the used system price.
 
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