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rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
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I know, but my point was that just because Apple sells a certain spec, whether it’s RAM or storage, that doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed to work well. Another poster suggested that since Apple sells a version with 8 GB of RAM, that the machine must work well with only 8 GB RAM, but I don’t think that’s always true.
Exhibit B: 2013 OG iPad Air with 1GB RAM/16GB base storage

Mind, I think the base for M1 MBAs are actually quite adequate for a lot of users. For most users, family photos is the primary space hog and since almost everyone I know has non-existent backup practices, I wholeheartedly recommend using iCloud for those.


To be fair those super cheap Windows 10 computers are used for nothing but web browsing and maybe a MS Word document. I would cringe if I had to use one but as they say you get what you pay for.
Sadly, I'm tech support for most of my acquaintances. Majority of them want to pay the least amount possible but they still expect great performance. :rolleyes:
 

alien3dx

macrumors 68020
Feb 12, 2017
2,193
524
I have an 8/512 MBA in hand right now and, aside from weird bluetooth stuff with my Trackpad, it's mostly glorious..

That said - I also can't tell if I want to keep this spec or try to get one with 16GB or RAM

I'm just worried this will be a mistake over the long term (only 8gb)
as long you dont serious work like editing ,software should be okay . like me 16 gb is sweet spot either in windows or macos while in linux 8 gb too way much.
 
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armoured

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2018
211
163
ether
Beside the cost, this all seems exacerbated by shipping times. Many people likely want to go 16gb but are wondering if they can make do with a 8gb so they can get one sooner.

I’d say just go 16 if the price is not the be issue. Think of the extra cost spread out over the lifetime of the laptop. Not much a day.
That is the issue a lot of the time, probably my biggest complaint about apple setting 8gb as the low-end always-available variant, it makes it hard to find the other builds.

Let's be clear: sure, for 'most' users 8gb is enough. But also for 'most' users they don't need a new laptop at all - a five-year old 4gb might also be fine. The M1-series air/macbook pros present a new quandary in that the battery life alone is a big upgrade.

I'm firmly in the camp that I know 16gb will make enough difference for me, I'll pay the extra. And of course, the issue is not that I have to finance it - that's a red herring, I'll pay cash - the point is that 20 or 30 or 75 bucks a month is really minimal if I use a machine for a couple hours a day. Which I do - even my ancient 11" 4gb macbook air is _almost_ enough for most uses - but not the critical ones.

The issue is I have to search/wait to find the exact specs I want. (A note to a USA-centric market - what seems like a minor inconvenience in USA can mean a MUCH longer wait outside of USA or big EU markets)

For me the difference is much less about money than availability. But I admit, I also have specific use profile (lots of photos/lightroom), and I've a tendency to use my computers for a long time.

I don't begrudge anyone who makes different choices, but a point I've made before: a lot of my friends/acquaintances will drop a couple hundred dollars on a night out (a couple hours of fun) but whinge about $200 extra for more memory (for a machine they use two or more hours a day).

That's fine, no-one said we have to be rational all the time.
 

MarkC426

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2008
3,699
2,097
UK
Let’s say $1650 for 16gb and 1TB for MBA, that is $46 month for 3 years. Or $1250 for 8gb and 512gb, which is $35 month for 3 years... that is $11 difference per month for double ram and storage...
This thread is getting ridiculous...... ?
Who works out what a mac/iPhone/iPad costs per month for the estimated life of it, when buying it.....?
Maybe large corporations with a tech budget.

Definitely a culture brought up on Streaming (netflix/prime/Disney etc), where your entire life is a rental model.
 

armoured

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2018
211
163
ether
This thread is getting ridiculous...... ?
Who works out what a mac/iPhone/iPad costs per month for the estimated life of it, when buying it.....?
Maybe large corporations with a tech budget.

Definitely a culture brought up on Streaming (netflix/prime/Disney etc), where your entire life is a rental model.
What, do you find the math challenging? Take the cost and divide by 24 or 36. That's what big companies do.
 
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russell_314

macrumors 604
Feb 10, 2019
6,678
10,282
USA
Exhibit B: 2013 OG iPad Air with 1GB RAM/16GB base storage

Mind, I think the base for M1 MBAs are actually quite adequate for a lot of users. For most users, family photos is the primary space hog and since almost everyone I know has non-existent backup practices, I wholeheartedly recommend using iCloud for those.



Sadly, I'm tech support for most of my acquaintances. Majority of them want to pay the least amount possible but they still expect great performance. :rolleyes:
I hate being tech support to friends and family so I limit it to the minimum possible I have to do. If I think they will eventually solve the problem on their own I don't get involved. Most end users think they know more than they actually do so when you give them advice they don't take it anyways. At least if someone is paying me for my time I really don't care if they listen or not but if I'm giving my time away then it gets annoying when I find out it was a waste.
 
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MarkC426

macrumors 68040
May 14, 2008
3,699
2,097
UK
What, do you find the math challenging? Take the cost and divide by 24 or 36. That's what big companies do.
I am not a big company so couldn’t give a stuff how much something costs per month. I don’t do a tax return for my Apple products (Apple takes enough tax to start with).
 
Last edited:

gtg465x

macrumors 6502a
Sep 12, 2016
754
883
You know why different specs are sold? Because people have different needs. My mom has 256 GB on her MacBook Air and will never go over 100 GB. I'm struggling with 512 GB and my next MacBook will likely have 1 or 2 TB. It's up to the user to buy what he or she needs.

Right, that’s not what I’m discussing. I’m complaining that sometimes the minimum spec does not deliver acceptable function for ANY user. Go back and read my post about Apple Watch Series 3. It doesn’t have enough storage to install updates without wiping, a basic function that everyone needs, yet Apple continues to sell the flawed / broken product. Now, maybe that’s not the case with the M1 computers and 8 GB of RAM is enough, but I lost my trust in Apple to provide an acceptable base line experience with the minimum spec, so I personally would only buy the 16 GB RAM version.
 
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armoured

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2018
211
163
ether
I am not a big company so couldn’t give a stuff how much something costs per month. I don’t do a tax return for my Apple products (Apple takes enough tax to start with).

The point is: it actually is useful to figure out how much something costs on an ongoing basis, over some reasonable use period of the product.

Or do you really just think of everything in terms of up-front cost? In that case, you'd never ever buy a car, but you'd buy a lot of toothpicks.

But hey, you do you.
 
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Chairman.Jobbie

macrumors 6502a
Sep 9, 2011
501
200
I have an 8gb M1 Pro. I currently have 6gb swap memory (just dropped to 5gb). No noticeable performance issues. Memory pressure does not exceed 50%.

This is often the way it is for my usage - Is a 6gb swap suggesting 8gb ram not enough?
 

4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,783
So Calif
My M1 Mini base with 8GB is running like it's on steroids without generating any heat compared to the i7 Mini with double the RAM.

Since the M1 Mini runs so cold with dual displays and doesn't thermal throttle anymore, I ditched the cooling fan I had underneath i7 !
 
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armoured

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2018
211
163
ether
I have an 8gb M1 Pro. I currently have 6gb swap memory (just dropped to 5gb). No noticeable performance issues.

This is often the way it is for my usage - Is a 6gb swap suggesting 8gb ram not enough?
If you're happy with the performance, you don't need to worry about it that much.

If you really want to look into it more, open terminal and type top. It's a bit like the activity monitor.

On the top two lines you will see something like swapin 232345858(2342) swapout 234243 (112).

Ignore the part that's not in parantheses. Watch these when you're busy and the computer under stress.

Quick explanation: in activity monitor the swap number is total file size. In swapin/out before the parentheses, these are cumulative numbers. In both cases they tend to grow over time since last boot (I'm simplifying a bit).

But what actually matters in terms of performance and problems is how active they are, and the numbers in brackets are basically recent. If both of those are changing quickly, especially at the same time, it is clearly a case of more memory would help. (In my view. And a bit simplified).

If those numbers in brackets only bump once in a while when you do something unusual, well, memory would reduce it, but it's most likely not a problem. If they're almost always on zero, then you're fine.

My guess is with six gb swap file you would benefit from memory, but how much - well, personal question, how much will you pay if you don't really notice the performance hit. But then, maybe you will ntoice it when you try to do something mroe challenging.
 

1240766

Cancelled
Nov 2, 2020
264
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The point is: it actually is useful to figure out how much something costs on an ongoing basis, over some reasonable use period of the product.

Or do you really just think of everything in terms of up-front cost? In that case, you'd never ever buy a car, but you'd buy a lot of toothpicks.

But hey, you do you.
Right on...that was the point??
Everything is a service provided, regardless if paid by cash upfront or through a 30year mortgage.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,416
40,226
If you're happy with the performance, you don't need to worry about it that much.

If you really want to look into it more, open terminal and type top. It's a bit like the activity monitor.

On the top two lines you will see something like swapin 232345858(2342) swapout 234243 (112).

Ignore the part that's not in parantheses. Watch these when you're busy and the computer under stress.

Quick explanation: in activity monitor the swap number is total file size. In swapin/out before the parentheses, these are cumulative numbers. In both cases they tend to grow over time since last boot (I'm simplifying a bit).

But what actually matters in terms of performance and problems is how active they are, and the numbers in brackets are basically recent. If both of those are changing quickly, especially at the same time, it is clearly a case of more memory would help. (In my view. And a bit simplified).

If those numbers in brackets only bump once in a while when you do something unusual, well, memory would reduce it, but it's most likely not a problem. If they're almost always on zero, then you're fine.

My guess is with six gb swap file you would benefit from memory, but how much - well, personal question, how much will you pay if you don't really notice the performance hit. But then, maybe you will ntoice it when you try to do something mroe challenging.

Great post - thank you for sharing all that.
I'm playing with "top" in Terminal right now -- launching Parallels Windows 10 ARM trial, doing a bunch at once...

What would you recommend to try to really stress it?
 

sky87

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2015
165
124
Well, just got the 16GB/1TB MBA today.

Running it side by side with the 8GB/512GB MBA I got a few days ago - it almost feels like the 16GB is way too much RAM while the 8GB is just about comfortable enough for now. The 8GB was getting to a memory pressure of around 40-50%, restarted it and it's now staying at around 20-30%. The 16GB on the other hand has yet to go above 25%.

I suspect I'll be more comfortable keeping the 16GB though. I think the main attraction of the 8GB/512GB MBA though is that it is 75% of the cost of the 16GB/1TB, so I'll feel a bit less sad if I get dings/scratches/etc in it...
 

armoured

macrumors regular
Feb 1, 2018
211
163
ether
Great post - thank you for sharing all that.
I'm playing with "top" in Terminal right now -- launching Parallels Windows 10 ARM trial, doing a bunch at once...

What would you recommend to try to really stress it?

Well, really, what you normally do plus a bunch more. Open a few more programs, run time machine, open a few too many browsers and web pages, have some different programs showing videos, youtube, vlc, etc. Obviously that'll be a bit artificial - more than usual - but will give you a sense.

Keep in mind if you're the type that opens programs and leaves them open even if not actually using them, it's when you switch back after not using it for a while, that's when it might have to swap back in. On the one hand that's a perfect use of swap memory - accommodates the way you work with maybe a slight lag, you're not thinking about memory. On the other hand if the lag each time is noticeable and big, that's interrupting your workflow.

(This stuff should overlap with the memory pressure graphs but, you know, not always).

Only you get to decide whether it's worth it to you to avoid. To me it is, it's not that much money over the 2-3 years I'm likely to use a laptop (minimum - the one I'm using right now is six years old and slow because not enough memory. Oh and also it's six years old).

Oh and I know a lot here don't like the future proofing argument - but too little/enough memory gets more noticeable as a computer gets older.
 
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turbineseaplane

macrumors P6
Mar 19, 2008
17,416
40,226
@armoured Good stuff and thoughts, thank you!

Honestly, if they simply had a 16GB & 1TB in stock I'd go grab one right now and be done with it.
I'm being highly influenced by "what I can actually get".

This is going to really suck if I don't have a replacement by the time I have to return this in early January.
 
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sky87

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2015
165
124
@armoured Good stuff and thoughts, thank you!

Honestly, if they simply had a 16GB & 1TB in stock I'd go grab one right now and be done with it.
I'm being highly influenced by "what I can actually get".

This is going to really suck if I don't have a replacement by the time I have to return this in early January.
Yes, this was almost exactly my problem when I got the 8GB/512GB the other day - ordered it partly as the 16GB/1TB wasn't in stock! I did also want to see if I would feel comfortable with the 8GB/512GB but as it turns out, I think I'll be more comfortable with the 16GB/1TB.

Do you have an Apple store nearby? If so it might be worth just stalking their stock availability. I set up a shortcut on my phone to check stocks of the 16GB/1TB MBA, and just kept checking it intermittently for the last couple of days until it came in stock this morning at my local store.
 

Chairman.Jobbie

macrumors 6502a
Sep 9, 2011
501
200
If you're happy with the performance, you don't need to worry about it that much.

If you really want to look into it more, open terminal and type top. It's a bit like the activity monitor.

On the top two lines you will see something like swapin 232345858(2342) swapout 234243 (112).

Ignore the part that's not in parantheses. Watch these when you're busy and the computer under stress.

Quick explanation: in activity monitor the swap number is total file size. In swapin/out before the parentheses, these are cumulative numbers. In both cases they tend to grow over time since last boot (I'm simplifying a bit).

But what actually matters in terms of performance and problems is how active they are, and the numbers in brackets are basically recent. If both of those are changing quickly, especially at the same time, it is clearly a case of more memory would help. (In my view. And a bit simplified).

If those numbers in brackets only bump once in a while when you do something unusual, well, memory would reduce it, but it's most likely not a problem. If they're almost always on zero, then you're fine.

My guess is with six gb swap file you would benefit from memory, but how much - well, personal question, how much will you pay if you don't really notice the performance hit. But then, maybe you will ntoice it when you try to do something mroe challenging.
Thanks for your reply. Interesting.

Disks: 22191157/1923G read, 13979220/1785G written.
Disks: 22420080/1964G read, 14174623/1827G written.
Disks: 22727032/2017G read, 14420035/1879G written.
Disks: 22996831/2074G read, 14671062/1936G written.
Disks: 23009198/2076G read, 14681069/1938G written.
Disks: 23164535/2103G read, 14820439/1965G written.

Taken randomly. What does it tell you?
 

1240766

Cancelled
Nov 2, 2020
264
376
Yes, this was almost exactly my problem when I got the 8GB/512GB the other day - ordered it partly as the 16GB/1TB wasn't in stock! I did also want to see if I would feel comfortable with the 8GB/512GB but as it turns out, I think I'll be more comfortable with the 16GB/1TB.

Do you have an Apple store nearby? If so it might be worth just stalking their stock availability. I set up a shortcut on my phone to check stocks of the 16GB/1TB MBA, and just kept checking it intermittently for the last couple of days until it came in stock this morning at my local store.

That is exactly what I did... I ran the 8gb/512gb for a few weeks while stalking the local Apple store, also had one ordered due January 6th just in case. Last week I found the 16gb/1tb in stock, returned the 8/512 and canceled my order.... The 8/512 was a terrific system, never a hiccup, but I wanted the upgrade so went for it.
 
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sky87

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2015
165
124
That's basically the model I'm looking for, too. Fortunately I can wait. But I've twice bought ones that were underspec'd and not upgradeable - and regretted it later.
So far I've had two macbooks (prior to this).

First one was way overspecced for what I ended up using it for. Second one (used as a secondary device) was way underspecced for what I ended up using it for! To be fair though the second one is a 2017 12" MB and they were never very fast to begin with, plus the additional demands that 2020 has placed on my tech usage means that it really started to struggle this year...

Interestingly I actually regret overspeccing the first one. It meant that I was so scared of using it and really babied it a lot, whereas if I had gone for a cheaper version I would have been less worried about using it or getting dings/scratches on it.

I do, yes -- good idea on stalking the availability..
Wish someone had made a website to assist with this somehow
I think I read about stalking the availability somewhere here. Definitely worked out for me and I now vaguely know the current restocking patterns of my local Apple store with regard to the MBAs.

Will add that interestingly enough when I first started stalking the MBA availability (a couple of weeks ago) the 16GB/1TB variant wasn't even an option for pickup in store, but sometime in the last week the 16GB/1TB Space Grey version became available for store pickup. The same config in other colours are still not available for store pickup.

I think I've seen people post around here of a website that can help to look for Apple store availability in the USA, but I haven't used it (I'm not in the USA).
 
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