Nice! I do machine learning, so I need access to a GPU. Running VM isn’t possible.
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I am really torn between 8GB vs. 16GB RAM
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This is such a stupid argument and I have no idea why it's gone on for 40+ pages!
No matter what you tell anyone, people are always going to want the bigger and a better version. There could be a 64GB version and people will be saying 16GB is too low and should take the upgrade. People are debating this with the 7 GPU Core and 8 GPU core MacBook Air, and of course most people are suggesting they take the 8 because "Future Proof". This is all BS.
You know if you need 16GB. End of story.
No matter what you tell anyone, people are always going to want the bigger and a better version. There could be a 64GB version and people will be saying 16GB is too low and should take the upgrade. People are debating this with the 7 GPU Core and 8 GPU core MacBook Air, and of course most people are suggesting they take the 8 because "Future Proof". This is all BS.
You know if you need 16GB. End of story.
Memory allocated =/ memory used.
You think those with a few tabs in Firefox, safari while having mail and calendar opened on an 8GB MacBook are struggling right now?
I understand your message though. You don't want to feel like you have wasted money by paying the extra $200 to upgrade to 16GB, so of course you are going to say things that help justify the money. Just make sure that your reasons are genuine, and not just misunderstood.
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Some of the RAM used is probably cached files. It's nice to have files cached for performance. This is normal for me - I can get up near 16 GB with just Firefox and ten YouTube tabs, iCal, Notes, and Reminders. I generally try to keep SWAP at 0 on all of my systems.
you'll need more than 16Gb if you want to keep swap at zero, regardless of what it says right now.
Untrue.
I have a cluster of three systems, two with 16 GB each (Macs) and one with 48 GB (Windows). If memory usage gets close to 16 GB on a system, then I just move something to another system. These are all old systems.
Then you’re probably not doing enough to push 16GB. I probably would try because otherwise a bit of swap isn’t something you’re going to notice if using the machine for general purposes and then you really are throwing money away.
My 16” pro with 32GB sees swap, and do you know how much I notice? I don’t. And when the m1x 16 comes out, if given the option I’ll certainly be maxing that out too
Only buy ram you’re going to need. Not because it’s the most and you’re ‘future proofing’. By that point the ram is going to be the least of your worries.
This is why I said earlier this debate is dumb af, most don’t even know why they need 16GB, which is why they don’t need it. These are not normal pcs and this isn’t windows. 8GB is enough for most and only if doing heavy workloads like a few of us are, is where 16+ is helpful. Running Firefox with Calendar and mail open, isn’t justification for 16GB in my humble opinion.
If ever confused:
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How macOS and the applications running use RAM hasn't changed and RAM usage is RAM usage, however you want to look at it, so be careful not to believe everything you hear online, especially from all the YouTubers with their clickbait videos. What's different, to a certain degree, is that the SSD is fast enough to make the hit when using swap less noticeable. That said, the SSD is still nowhere near as fast as the RAM and just because you may not notice going over your RAM limit and using swap doesn't mean it's the right way to go or that you're not losing performance. You are. Whether it matters to you is a different story but don't believe that the M1 somehow makes 8 GB behave like 16 GB like many people have said as it's just not true.
There came a time a few years ago when you could no longer recommend the iPhone with 16 GB storage to people as their experience would be terrible. Now, while many people can get away with 8 GB RAM on a Mac, I feel like I can't recommend 8 RAM GB on a Mac. My wife had 8 GB on her old 11" MacBook and she used it for browsing and working with a few web apps. Even with just Safari open, I'd often see her well over her 8 GB RAM limit and into swap. Sure, a lot of this depends on the kinds of things you're doing but we're definitely in the time where web apps can chew through your RAM. Then, add Slack, Discord, Zoom, Skype, etc.
So, I'm not trying to say that 8 GB is a bad idea or that you'll struggle with it; I'm just trying to say that the M1 chip may help things feel better in certain circumstances but if you're used to using 16 GB, you're now not suddenly going to be happy with just 8 GB. My previous 16" MacBook Pro had 32 GB and my M1 MacBook Air has 16 GB. I'm a software engineer so I may ask more of my computer than the typical person but I can say I've been well into the swap on this Air and that I miss that extra 16 GB. It's fine, though, as the benefits of everything else the M1 brings outweighs that but it's something I'm aware of.
Then you’re probably not doing enough to push 16GB. I probably would try because otherwise a bit of swap isn’t something you’re going to notice if using the machine for general purposes and then you really are throwing money away.
My 16” pro with 32GB sees swap, and do you know how much I notice? I don’t. And when the m1x 16 comes out, if given the option I’ll certainly be maxing that out too
Only buy ram you’re going to need. Not because it’s the most and you’re ‘future proofing’. By that point the ram is going to be the least of your worries.
This is why I said earlier this debate is dumb af, most don’t even know why they need 16GB, which is why they don’t need it. These are not normal pcs and this isn’t windows. 8GB is enough for most and only if doing heavy workloads like a few of us are, is where 16+ is helpful. Running Firefox with Calendar and mail open, isn’t justification for 16GB in my humble opinion.
My Late 2009 iMac has a HDD and a Core 2 Duo processor. Eliminating swap has improved performance significantly.
I have 72 GB of RAM across my cluster. This is all old hardware. I was planning on sending the iMac to Apple for Recycling and was going to give away the 2008 Dell XPS Studio. But I put the three systems together in a cluster and it provides a surprising amount of usability for such old hardware.
I have 8 GB and 16 GB Virtual Machines on my Cougar Desktop. So it has 64 GB of RAM. 64 GB of DDR4 RAM is cheap. I expect to eventually go to 128 GB. I do hope that some of the M1X systems have user-installable RAM.
I'd say that using 12 and 11 year old hardware demonstrates future-proofing.
I've mentioned before on this thread that I first got the 8GB/512GB MBA, found I was using a lot of RAM (and found a few trigger points that could drive memory pressure into yellow, even if only transiently), then got the 16GB/1TB MBA.
I was honestly a bit surprised at how uncomfortable I felt with the 8GB of RAM. For context, I also use a 2017 12" MB with 8GB of RAM (which is fine, the MB is struggling a bit but I don't think the RAM is really the limiting factor here) and a 2018 13" MBP with 16GB of RAM (which always felt like too much for what I use it for). So based on this previous experience I thought I'd be happy with 8GB. Especially since I don't do coding or video editing. But it turns out that some apps I use on a daily basis use way more RAM than I expected.
Currently still have both - but have just made an appointment for returns at the Apple Store tomorrow. Planning to return the 8GB/512GB MBA and keep the 16GB/1TB MBA. Just generally feel a lot more comfortable having the extra RAM.
I was honestly a bit surprised at how uncomfortable I felt with the 8GB of RAM. For context, I also use a 2017 12" MB with 8GB of RAM (which is fine, the MB is struggling a bit but I don't think the RAM is really the limiting factor here) and a 2018 13" MBP with 16GB of RAM (which always felt like too much for what I use it for). So based on this previous experience I thought I'd be happy with 8GB. Especially since I don't do coding or video editing. But it turns out that some apps I use on a daily basis use way more RAM than I expected.
Currently still have both - but have just made an appointment for returns at the Apple Store tomorrow. Planning to return the 8GB/512GB MBA and keep the 16GB/1TB MBA. Just generally feel a lot more comfortable having the extra RAM.
I don't feel comfortable with 16GB personally, it's still far too small. I'd wait for m1x and upgrade to 32GB minimum
This question is so easy to answer...
If you are a power user or pro user (developer, video, photo, multimedia): take 16 GB. Having 8 GB more will never hurt.
If you are a basic home office user (MS Office, iWork, basic tasks): take 8 GB.
Can’t believe it took 46 pages to arrive to this conclusion.
If you are a power user or pro user (developer, video, photo, multimedia): take 16 GB. Having 8 GB more will never hurt.
If you are a basic home office user (MS Office, iWork, basic tasks): take 8 GB.
Can’t believe it took 46 pages to arrive to this conclusion.
I had a look around at used iMacs and most of the iMacs I looked at had the base levels of RAM. So older iMacs with 4 GB of RAM and newer iMacs with Core i5 and i7 CPUs with 8 GB of RAM. I'm kind of amazed that people would outfit a 6-core i7 with 8 GB of RAM. Apple obviously sells this as the base and gives the user the ability to easily add more cheap RAM with a slot that opens with a screwdriver. I suspect that people are selling iMacs at hefty discounts for performance and that that performance may be RAM-related. Especially in the days where more and more people are working from home or doing school from home.
Adding Zoom, slack and other work tools to your home computer can mean higher RAM requirements. It's fine with me, though. Some good deals out there locally. I would still prefer an M1X, but that looks like the second half of 2021 right now.
A lot of those things have HDDs and Fusion drives too. Why was Apple selling HDDs as late as 2020?
Adding Zoom, slack and other work tools to your home computer can mean higher RAM requirements. It's fine with me, though. Some good deals out there locally. I would still prefer an M1X, but that looks like the second half of 2021 right now.
A lot of those things have HDDs and Fusion drives too. Why was Apple selling HDDs as late as 2020?
All technical information and analyses aside, I feel like nothing is holding back my experience with just using 8GB of RAM. It's fluid, smooth and crunches everything I trow at it.
Whilst all this research, and measuring tools are awesome to have, I also think we should be less obsessed by the numbers/details, and rather just use and enjoy the MacBook (or M1 in general) like an average Joe (without the technical knowledge).
I mean, who cares if the darn thing swaps once in a while, because its need a little more RAM for that certain moment. Who cares if swapping means some more SSD writes (these things have a crazy lifespan nowadays we probably never notice any negative effect). Who cares if it will start showing some memory pressure when you start that 8th safari browser playing 2160P HDR at the same time... Maybe we shouldn't obsess so much about what's going on under the hood, as long as the actual experience is great, which it is.
I might step on some people toes here, but I'm certain 90% of the people can easily get away with the 8GB model.
A lot of these same people getting unsure, re-considering and therefore throwing hundreds of dollars away for an extra 8GB they will most likely never (effectively) use. Just because some enthusiasts (like I am often myself as well) urge them to go for 16GB. For example, in my personal situation, upgrading from a 8/256 to a 16/256 would add $415 U.S! Now, that is a lot of hard earned cash for something not needed.
I believe, if you need 16GB of RAM for your usage/workflow then you know yourself (looking at you serious video/photo editors and docker users). If you're wondering about it and scratching your head after reading all these threads about RAM, you're most certainly just fine with 8GB.
My 2 cents.
Whilst all this research, and measuring tools are awesome to have, I also think we should be less obsessed by the numbers/details, and rather just use and enjoy the MacBook (or M1 in general) like an average Joe (without the technical knowledge).
I mean, who cares if the darn thing swaps once in a while, because its need a little more RAM for that certain moment. Who cares if swapping means some more SSD writes (these things have a crazy lifespan nowadays we probably never notice any negative effect). Who cares if it will start showing some memory pressure when you start that 8th safari browser playing 2160P HDR at the same time... Maybe we shouldn't obsess so much about what's going on under the hood, as long as the actual experience is great, which it is.
I might step on some people toes here, but I'm certain 90% of the people can easily get away with the 8GB model.
A lot of these same people getting unsure, re-considering and therefore throwing hundreds of dollars away for an extra 8GB they will most likely never (effectively) use. Just because some enthusiasts (like I am often myself as well) urge them to go for 16GB. For example, in my personal situation, upgrading from a 8/256 to a 16/256 would add $415 U.S! Now, that is a lot of hard earned cash for something not needed.
I believe, if you need 16GB of RAM for your usage/workflow then you know yourself (looking at you serious video/photo editors and docker users). If you're wondering about it and scratching your head after reading all these threads about RAM, you're most certainly just fine with 8GB.
My 2 cents.
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I am in Europe, difference is 230 euro. Base model often discounts like 90 euro.
For me, its 330-340 euro difference. Which is about 415 U.S dollar.
You guys in Europe are getting shafted unfortunately. But USA $200 increase. Still too high
With some configurations, it may be cheaper to fly to the US, buy a Mac and fly back (without COVID of course). I used to work with people from other countries and they would go to the Apple Store and try to buy multiple iPhones or other electronics here to bring to their relatives when they went to visit. I guess that taxes, exchange rate and pricing might make that a friendly gesture.
There’s probably an element of that. I got an 8GB for two reasons. 1. I wasn’t paying for it, and even though my crazy parents would have still bought it if I’d picked one 5 times the price - they like to go daft at Christmas. I wasn’t letting them spend as much as they wanted to.
2. I had plenty of time to read and watch, to gather information on the M1 systems, which left me incredibly curious.
As someone for whom 8GB on an Intel Mac is laughably useless, 16GB is pushing it and I normally settle for a minimum of 32GB, when it’s possible, though 64GB is more common for me. I was intrigued by the results I was seeing.
So, I decided to settle on the 8GB (it could always be replaced) to satisfy my curiosity. Though I fully expected swap sizes to be large, I decided for a change I would just concentrate on what actually matters. System responsiveness and performance.
Since getting the M1, I’ve done my best not to look at swap usage, though I have kept the occasional eye on memory pressure. The difference is astounding. Performing the same workload as on my 32GB iMac (which admittedly has a weaker processor), where the iMac starts beachballing and slowing to an unusable crawl, the 8GB M1 Air not only remains completely responsive, but finishes tasks much, much quicker.
I can throw significantly more at the 8GB Air than I could ever have hoped to on my iMac. Running Xcode, Fusion 360, Parallels with Windows ARM playing a game, Final Cut Pro, Safari open with a few tabs and Music playing. The bloody thing doesn’t miss a beat. And I wouldn’t normally have that lot on the go at the same time, my iMac can’t cope.
I dread to think what the swap is like, but damn if I don’t care. So long as the system stays responsive I’m happy. I honestly never thought I’d see the day again when I could say I’m happy with 8GB on a Mac, I’ve not been able to say that for a very, very long time.
Obviously, I’d still say get more memory if you can, and your workload demands it, it’s a sensible choice, always will be.
But when you stop looking at memory usage the way I have done for decades and instead just focus on what the system can actually do, it is more surprising than even I expected it to be.
@TrueBlou Great stuff.
Truly, those who don't already **know** they want and need 16GB of RAM are almost certainly great with an 8GB M1 machine.
They should acquire and use one and simply enjoy and don't worry about finding stats to nitpick.
Truly, those who don't already **know** they want and need 16GB of RAM are almost certainly great with an 8GB M1 machine.
They should acquire and use one and simply enjoy and don't worry about finding stats to nitpick.
Assumptions that no one cares can be bad. Some power users "myself included" cares about those characteristics. The problem is that a lot of people "dont' know it" until it they realize they need it. Like me realizing that M1 MBA is not enough for my needs (Wanted bigger battery, and discrete GPU/stronger iGPU)
I have to think that they're going to allow DIMMs on some models like the iMacs and the Pros.