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ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
What if swap was faster than RAM? Then you would want a 1 Gb model so that the OS would use swap all the time.

The M1 has several things which make the penalty of having less RAM less severe than on Intel Macs, thus it _feels_ like you don't need more.

Unified memory means the CPU don't have to copy content to the GPU's dedicated RAM or vice versa.
If the GPU needs to use 1Gb for a few seconds, it can so immediately, while on Intel it would have a max memory of maybe 256Mb or something like that.
Having their own SoC means they might have implemented memory compression in hardware, thus expanding the available memory without much performance penalty.
Better and faster disc controller and SSD makes it faster to shuffle content back and forth between RAM and SSD.
LOL. If “swap” is faster than RAM, it’s not a swap file. It’s called L1/L2 cache, and the M1 has 12MB L2 (for performance cores) of it.

The basic concept is that you have super fast memory but small, and slower memory but larger. The storage (where a swap file is) is the last end of the chain, with large amount but slowest access.
 

sky87

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2015
165
124
Ten out of twelve stores have the Air 16/1 in stock tomorrow and my preferred store will have them in stock on Saturday. This means that I can order and pick up this weekend. Very tempting.

It's the only model with 16 GB. The 7/8 and Pro are not available. They tell you one day out and two days out; why not three and four days out? I'd guess that I would have to wait in line at my local store to pick it up as well. I often see lines at the store for people waiting to pick things up. The line is outside of the store.

Availability may be due to the holiday. There are lots of 8 GB models available but my guess is that these will all sell this weekend.

Was going back to place and order on the 16/1, and, gone. All of the 8 GB models are gone now too. That's something like two hours. The 8 GB models were in 12 stores. Right now, they are all sold out for the next two days. The 16/1 are sold out in three stores for the next two days. There's only one that I will go to to pick it up at. It appears that a bunch of these things comes in stock and they're gone in a few hours.

I look forward to seeing what kind of Mac sales Apple has. I'm sure that they are selling a ton of the M1 systems but I wonder if people are holding back on buying the Intel systems that have more ports or RAM and waiting for the M1X. I've heard that the M1X will be in the second-half, possibly one year after the M1 - that's a long wait.

I don't mind getting an M1 now. My daughter indicated that she'd like one. That does complicate things a bit - I might need to get two of them.

I don't have 12 Apple stores near me (that's lots!)

However for my local Apple stores (3 of them) the 16GB/1TB Space Gray MBA becomes available intermittently. From stalking availability on the Apple Store app (iPhone shortcut helps with this), they seem to pop up as available sometime around late morning, then be gone by the afternoon/evening. Similar case for the 8GB/512GB MBA - they pop up as available every now and again before becoming unavailable, though I've seen them in stock more often than the 16GB/1TB.

In terms of store pick up - the store I usually go to has set up lines outside of the store. When I picked up, they asked if I wanted to just pick up and go, or enter the store (and presumably also get accessories or other things I might want). The pick up and go line moved incredibly fast with minimal wait from entry to getting the product and leaving (less than 5 minutes); the line to enter the store was quite a bit longer. Generally a fairly pleasant experience.

I'd imagine it varies from store to store though!
 
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rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,264
I don't have 12 Apple stores near me (that's lots!)

However for my local Apple stores (3 of them) the 16GB/1TB Space Gray MBA becomes available intermittently. From stalking availability on the Apple Store app (iPhone shortcut helps with this), they seem to pop up as available sometime around late morning, then be gone by the afternoon/evening. Similar case for the 8GB/512GB MBA - they pop up as available every now and again before becoming unavailable, though I've seen them in stock more often than the 16GB/1TB.

In terms of store pick up - the store I usually go to has set up lines outside of the store. When I picked up, they asked if I wanted to just pick up and go, or enter the store (and presumably also get accessories or other things I might want). The pick up and go line moved incredibly fast with minimal wait from entry to getting the product and leaving (less than 5 minutes); the line to enter the store was quite a bit longer. Generally a fairly pleasant experience.

I'd imagine it varies from store to store though!

Lol, in Glendale, CA, there's like two within walking distance of each other (Glendale Galleria and Americana) and both were always super busy. Alas, all stores are closed in California right now.
 

mo5214

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2019
145
102
Was going back to place and order on the 16/1, and, gone. All of the 8 GB models are gone now too. That's something like two hours. The 8 GB models were in 12 stores. Right now, they are all sold out for the next two days. The 16/1 are sold out in three stores for the next two days. There's only one that I will go to to pick it up at. It appears that a bunch of these things comes in stock and they're gone in a few hours.

I look forward to seeing what kind of Mac sales Apple has. I'm sure that they are selling a ton of the M1 systems but I wonder if people are holding back on buying the Intel systems that have more ports or RAM and waiting for the M1X. I've heard that the M1X will be in the second-half, possibly one year after the M1 - that's a long wait.

I don't mind getting an M1 now. My daughter indicated that she'd like one. That does complicate things a bit - I might need to get two of them.
It could be a while. From what ive read, it could be until 2nd half of 2021.
 
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sky87

macrumors regular
Nov 7, 2015
165
124
Lol, in Glendale, CA, there's like two within walking distance of each other (Glendale Galleria and Americana) and both were always super busy. Alas, all stores are closed in California right now.
Well the country I live in has 3 Apple Stores, which is already a significant improvement from 4 years ago when there were 0 - the Apple Store app used to tell me my nearest Apple Store was somewhere over a 4 hour flight away!

Very grateful for having nearby Apple Stores, I think I would have been extremely wary of trying new Apple stuff without the very generous Apple return/refund policy. Plus it makes it so easy to buy stuff through their app! Or stalk the store for M1 macbook stocks...
 

1240766

Cancelled
Nov 2, 2020
264
376
Many Apple stores have a system to deliver items as fast as two hours after purchase for something like $9. It is a great thing, helps people to make some extra money and helps avoid a drive to the store.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,264
Well the country I live in has 3 Apple Stores, which is already a significant improvement from 4 years ago when there were 0 - the Apple Store app used to tell me my nearest Apple Store was somewhere over a 4 hour flight away!

Very grateful for having nearby Apple Stores, I think I would have been extremely wary of trying new Apple stuff without the very generous Apple return/refund policy. Plus it makes it so easy to buy stuff through their app! Or stalk the store for M1 macbook stocks...

This is one of the reasons we buy iPhones and iPads. If something goes wrong, I can just go to an Apple Store and get it fixed (well, replaced really).
 
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pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,151
14,574
New Hampshire
I don't have 12 Apple stores near me (that's lots!)

However for my local Apple stores (3 of them) the 16GB/1TB Space Gray MBA becomes available intermittently. From stalking availability on the Apple Store app (iPhone shortcut helps with this), they seem to pop up as available sometime around late morning, then be gone by the afternoon/evening. Similar case for the 8GB/512GB MBA - they pop up as available every now and again before becoming unavailable, though I've seen them in stock more often than the 16GB/1TB.

In terms of store pick up - the store I usually go to has set up lines outside of the store. When I picked up, they asked if I wanted to just pick up and go, or enter the store (and presumably also get accessories or other things I might want). The pick up and go line moved incredibly fast with minimal wait from entry to getting the product and leaving (less than 5 minutes); the line to enter the store was quite a bit longer. Generally a fairly pleasant experience.

I'd imagine it varies from store to store though!

The pick up line is a lot slower if people are buying phones that need activation and/or screen protectors. I don't think that people are buying a lot of phones. I've only stood in line once and it was when the new phones came out and I waited for a long time because of the activations.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,151
14,574
New Hampshire
Well the country I live in has 3 Apple Stores, which is already a significant improvement from 4 years ago when there were 0 - the Apple Store app used to tell me my nearest Apple Store was somewhere over a 4 hour flight away!

Very grateful for having nearby Apple Stores, I think I would have been extremely wary of trying new Apple stuff without the very generous Apple return/refund policy. Plus it makes it so easy to buy stuff through their app! Or stalk the store for M1 macbook stocks...

I guess that they define local as withing 60 miles. It is a lot of stores though. There's one 20 minutes to the South, 20 minutes to the North and 30 minutes to the East. It takes so long to the East as there's no highway to get there. Apple computers are popular in Boston. Maybe tons of students and tons of healthcare/biotech. There are three stores in my area and they don't charge sales tax so people from the state to the south buy stuff here to avoid paying it in their state.


Screen Shot 2020-12-31 at 10.58.20 PM.png
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,264
I guess that they define local as withing 60 miles. It is a lot of stores though. There's one 20 minutes to the South, 20 minutes to the North and 30 minutes to the East. It takes so long to the East as there's no highway to get there. Apple computers are popular in Boston. Maybe tons of students and tons of healthcare/biotech. There are three stores in my area and they don't charge sales tax so people from the state to the south buy stuff here to avoid paying it in their state.


View attachment 1704603

I think they just give you 12 results regardless. They also show 12 for me and they're all within a 20-mile radius.

Something I hadn't realized, I've actually been to all 6 nearest me at one point or another.

1. & 2. walking distance so these are our go-to stores
3. close to brother's college
4. & 5. close to my previous job
6. close to a friend's home

Buy 13-inch MacBook Air - Apple.png


Buy 13-inch MacBook Air - Apple 2.png
 
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mo5214

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2019
145
102
I think people were quite a bit more fond of PowerBooks than the most recent few years of Intel Macs honestly.

To me the whole butterfly era can burn in history
Of course that’s when they started to experiment running their own chips (T series chip on those models) are essentially exercise in preparation of the M1 macs. First touchID in T1. In T2 they had the chip took over part of the boot process and bypassing intel PCH in addition to taking over SSD controls/encryption.

I’ve been telling people to steer of them for years. (Mainly due to bugs leading to kernel panics, then audio/usb2 bugs, etc)

Personally I’m unaffected. As I stuck with 2015 series of machines.

This also means I can nab them T2 macs for cheap now probably. I’d probably nab one of the 2019 16” with 5600M once price is low enough ;) for collection purposes.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,142
7,120
This is such a stupid argument and I have no idea why it's gone on for 40+ pages!

No matter what you tell anyone, people are always going to want the bigger and a better version. There could be a 64GB version and people will be saying 16GB is too low and should take the upgrade. People are debating this with the 7 GPU Core and 8 GPU core MacBook Air, and of course most people are suggesting they take the 8 because "Future Proof". This is all BS.

You know if you need 16GB. End of story.
Not all of us do or did at point asking. This is why me going from a 2010 Mac Pro 8GB of RAM to a 2019 i9 iMac with 128GB of RAM and the most taxing thing I do is 1080p video editing. I got 128GB of RAM from recommendations when it made literally 20 seconds difference on a 15+ export. Yay I guess? I am not Hollywood so the extra 20 seconds is useless to me. And that 20 seconds might have just been an error in statistical analysis since I did not do dozens of tests. It could be my mac was in the middle of something else when I first tested that caused my 8GB version to be 20 seconds slower.

Even at 4K video editing, 8GB can be used. If you don't need the fastest export times. The jump to 16GB is not that massive of an improvement. Check out this video. Yes there is an improvement but not that drastic and I don't think anyone here is asking for advice when they work on the new Top Gun movie for example that needs these very very very fast exports.

 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,142
7,120
How macOS and the applications running use RAM hasn't changed and RAM usage is RAM usage
Not necessarily. NSObject retain/release is much much MUCH faster on Apple Silicon. Which means memory transactions are faster, which means clearing out old memory and reserving new memory when needed is faster. Which can lead to a faster system overall.

 
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mo5214

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2019
145
102
Go for it!
You'll have plenty of options on great deals I'm sure!
I can’t now, its priced too high to make sense right now. I just also canceled my M1 Air return once I realized that it could be until 2nd half of next year until the 16” M1X arrives. Well that and a Razer blade 2019 Silver edition with 2070 max-Q I just nabbed for half off. (Its even cheaper than my M1) with plans to mostly game on it (Cyberpunk among other things) and possibly hackintosh and experiment with. As hackintoshes are far more flexible in this regard. (Wanted to learn more about the underpinnings of OS X/ macOS)
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,142
7,120
I have to think that they're going to allow DIMMs on some models like the iMacs and the Pros.
Someone mentioned (I think it was Max Tech) that the prediction is 8/16GB maybe 32GB on the SOC itself, and some DIMMs for getting to the 1.5TB. That way some OS level/GPU level items needing the very fast RAM access can use the SOC RAM, and things like programs can use the extra DIMMs memory. Will be interesting to see. It would have to be the case, I don't think they can release an SOC with 1.5TB of RAM on the Mac Pro.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,142
7,120
The Intel Mini was fine except for three problems:

1) Thermals
2) User replaceable RAM
3) GPU

They could fix 1 and 3 with an M1X, especially if they supported 3x4k.

I'd be good with that.
1 and 3 are already addressed technically. With the M1 matching/beating a GTX 1050Ti and the fans are barely running most of the time. Upgradeable RAM is all that is left. The Intel Mini had replaceable RAM but the M1 does not, and probably won't.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,151
14,574
New Hampshire
Someone mentioned (I think it was Max Tech) that the prediction is 8/16GB maybe 32GB on the SOC itself, and some DIMMs for getting to the 1.5TB. That way some OS level/GPU level items needing the very fast RAM access can use the SOC RAM, and things like programs can use the extra DIMMs memory. Will be interesting to see. It would have to be the case, I don't think they can release an SOC with 1.5TB of RAM on the Mac Pro.

The M1 is 16 billion transistors. 1.5 TB would require at least that number of transistors so double the die size. It would be fun to play with and Apple could probably make one if they wanted to. Could you imagine chips like that as Cloud Servers?
 

JouniS

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
638
399
The M1 is 16 billion transistors. 1.5 TB would require at least that number of transistors so double the die size. It would be fun to play with and Apple could probably make one if they wanted to. Could you imagine chips like that as Cloud Servers?
I believe DRAM still uses one transistor per bit (and some overhead for logic), so 1.5 TB would need ~13 trillion transistors. That's why the Mac Pro has 12 DIMM slots, and each DIMM can have tens of memory chips.
 

Sydde

macrumors 68030
Aug 17, 2009
2,563
7,061
IOKWARDI
NSObject retain/release is much much MUCH faster on Apple Silicon. Which means memory transactions are faster, which means clearing out old memory and reserving new memory when needed is faster.
It does not mean that. Retain/release has absolutely nothing to do with malloc/free. It is merely a matter of accounting which objects want or no longer want a strong reference to another object. It happens with great frequency in Cocoa, but a retain follows an allocation that has already happened, and a release merely decrements the retain count, which may or may not result in memory being deallocated. Please fail to overstate the situation.
 
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topcat001

macrumors 6502
Nov 17, 2019
287
141
Indeed! While malloc and free might be faster "naturally" on AS, the speed of incrementing or decrementing reference counts is not going to have a big effect on the speed of memory transactions. It has other performance benefits. In the large C++ codebase I work on we use smart pointers a lot and this is an important consideration; those increments add up.
 
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pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,151
14,574
New Hampshire
I have a lot project with Oracle and I want to use the downloadable tools instead of the web interface. The tools are only provided on Linux. One reason to keep around an x86 system with a lot of RAM. I'm hoping that this works on Ubuntu - I'm not in the mood to install Oracle Enterprise Linux.
 
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