We’re getting to absurdity again. The day the Mac becomes an iPad in functionality is the day it ceases to be a Mac.
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I do not want macOS on iPad. Ever.
- Thread starter SanderEvers
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Truly compelling argumentation, obviously based on insightful analysis, backed by hard data and eloquently presented! 👍
Pretty much every form of “laptop tablet” thing has been designed, built, marketed and sold. From the original convertible PC laptops to more modern versions like the Yoga or MS Surface laptop convertible.
Not only are they compromised as laptops and tablets given the increased weight and thickness, the software doesn’t work for touch.
I’m all for possibilities and new technologies. What we’re talking about here is the Mac getting a touchscreen. No, it won’t be a good iPad because it’s not designed to be that.
And all of that is irrelevant to whether or not macOS, Windows, Linux, etc. could run in a VM app on the iPad Pro. If someone wanted to interact with these systems in a VM, they could do so just fine with an attached keyboard and mouse…
Why is it even a discussion running macOS in a VM on the iPad? Who cares what you or anybody else does in that regard.
That’s what others here are advocating for. Not a native port of macOS on the iPad, but the ability to run it in a VM. That’s at least what @Arctic Moose and several others in this discussion are advocating for.
They should knock themselves out. At least they’d be on their own in that hellscape.
The problem is that currently it’s difficult to run VMs on iPadOS. That’s why I think Apple should allow entitlements for developers to request access to for Hypervisor and JIT, both things that currently are lacking that prevent VMs from performing as well as they could otherwise. Apple allowing emulators may be promising for that possibility.
You are editing photos wrong then, about one of the best thing you can do on an iPad is photo editing.
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News on this front:
(I think Apple is going to get in trouble for not allowing it on alternative app stores though.)
Also:
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Yeah, I saw that. I think part of it may have been due to UTM trying to pretend to be a game emulator, when everyone knows that’s not what it’s designed to be. I think that tact was pretty dishonest. But I do think it’s unfortunate that Apple rejected it. Though one thing to consider is that just because they rejected that particular app now doesn’t mean they won’t release more secure frameworks for VM apps to use in the future and officially support a more secure implementation. 👍🏻News on this front:
(I think Apple is going to get in trouble for not allowing it on alternative app stores though.)
Also:
No, UTM was not trying to pretend to be anything. We all know what it is. It has been that way forever.
Apple simply just does not want VMs on anything other than Macbooks and desktop Mac computers. Period.
P.S.: this is confirmed by a friend who works at Apple. Apple explicitly does not want any way at all to run another "system" on the iPads currently. Retro emulators are an exception only because they are starting to want more games on iOS systems. They are okay with "streaming" so VNCs and such are allowed but just specifically no other way to execute code on iPads.
Note: there are ways around this even without the App Store involved but we are basically jumping through hoops to get something that was previously allowed.
I mean they should at the very least give you the choice. I just recently moved back to the apple ecosystem and I can't fathom how anyone would (outside of macos) stick by them. It's like you have to contend with some really deep stockholm syndrome to perpetuate your brand loyalty. Between them blocking even free apps in the app store if you owe 2 cents that you were never notified for, and only presented with a login screen over and over again and never told the reason you can't login, the inability to run 3rd party apps, the fact they can remote into your device at anytime and laud themselves as advocates for "privacy". The way they demand accolades for adopting concepts and ideas that have been around for years then touting it as innovation. Their promotion of green practices, while they to a far too overt degree utilize (probably the only thing they've "innovated") planned obsolescence. Making you discard devices that are perfectly capable of running new software because giving you a little control over you device would inch their profit margins back a little. I mean the mac studio is a prime example of how little they care about their customers, how much they care about profit, and just how condescending they are as a company.
This device has an empty storage module slot. It's functional. You could easily expand your storage for literally a fraction of what they would charge as an upgrade, but don't offer a post purchase option to do so. But they block it through firmware. I mean if that isn't them telling you " sure you paid for the machine, but it's still ours! As a matter of fact we're gonna "protect" you from breaking it by making it where YOU can't service it when it breaks.
I know that was long winded but it's the same concept here. The m4 ipad pro is more than capable of running macos. The processors are exactly the same with only some minor differences between the various components on the SOC required to drive the hardware it's packaged in. I mean give us a boot camp facsimilia that would enable a macos partition. That way you can pry the reigns out of apples hands, and actually have control over the device YOU paid for instead of being akin to a dog that carries out it's life in a crate watching people enjoy freedom and adopting a level of cognitive dissonance that would have you sympathize with the one that keeps you there. Even praise them for doing so and actually believing the ridiculous amount of restriction you have to contend with is superior to being able to have the ability to decide if you want to step behind the velvet rope or not.
TLDR; (worded in the style of apple "intelligence" to make it more palatable.)
Guy converts to apple for second time. Realizes was horrible decision. Rants about his inability to make sense of loyalty to a corporation that acts as if giving you dominion over your possession is a detrimental practice. He expresses that there is a certain irony in a business model build on green practices, and progressive ideology would also so relentlessly pursue profit to the point that the factory that manufactures their devices as one time actually had to install nets around the facility to prevent the epidemic of suicide that resulted from peoples demand to willingly renounce the notion that you are competent enough to even have even a bastion of privilege on something they paid a premium for. .
But hey. I'm just a guy that likes to actually use what he pays for.
This device has an empty storage module slot. It's functional. You could easily expand your storage for literally a fraction of what they would charge as an upgrade, but don't offer a post purchase option to do so. But they block it through firmware. I mean if that isn't them telling you " sure you paid for the machine, but it's still ours! As a matter of fact we're gonna "protect" you from breaking it by making it where YOU can't service it when it breaks.
I know that was long winded but it's the same concept here. The m4 ipad pro is more than capable of running macos. The processors are exactly the same with only some minor differences between the various components on the SOC required to drive the hardware it's packaged in. I mean give us a boot camp facsimilia that would enable a macos partition. That way you can pry the reigns out of apples hands, and actually have control over the device YOU paid for instead of being akin to a dog that carries out it's life in a crate watching people enjoy freedom and adopting a level of cognitive dissonance that would have you sympathize with the one that keeps you there. Even praise them for doing so and actually believing the ridiculous amount of restriction you have to contend with is superior to being able to have the ability to decide if you want to step behind the velvet rope or not.
TLDR; (worded in the style of apple "intelligence" to make it more palatable.)
Guy converts to apple for second time. Realizes was horrible decision. Rants about his inability to make sense of loyalty to a corporation that acts as if giving you dominion over your possession is a detrimental practice. He expresses that there is a certain irony in a business model build on green practices, and progressive ideology would also so relentlessly pursue profit to the point that the factory that manufactures their devices as one time actually had to install nets around the facility to prevent the epidemic of suicide that resulted from peoples demand to willingly renounce the notion that you are competent enough to even have even a bastion of privilege on something they paid a premium for. .
But hey. I'm just a guy that likes to actually use what he pays for.
There is one very simple solution to all of it. If you hate Apple so much, then don't buy their products. You can buy a very capable Surface tablet for around the price of an iPad Pro. It will run Windows or Linux or any other OS you want to run on it. (for as long as there is driver support) Maybe understand that there are people who actually like someone taking control over the device to protect the user. 90% of malware is successful because of user fault.
Making an OS locked down to limit the amount a user can access makes malware a lot more difficult. And remember, malware doens't just infect your device but also any device that's connected to it. So someone installing a malware app by accident can completely destroy the company they work for.
And sure adding choice is good, but that always fragments the user base. Leaving less users for any or both supported systems. Which was one of my main points.
For one, people who disagree with you don’t have Stockholm syndrome, and it’s very disrespectful of you to say that of others who don’t share your opinion… It does nothing for your argument.
3rd party apps definitely run on iPadOS and iOS… Most of the apps in the App Store are from 3rd parties… If you’re referring to app sideloading, I couldn’t care less about installing software from I’mTotallyNotScammy.com… I prefer the security of downloading apps from the App Store, even on my Mac I source every app I possibly can from the App Store because it’s more secure. You may disagree, but it isn’t “Stockholm syndrome” to prefer a way that is more secure and easier to manage updates and such…
No, they don’t remote into your device whenever they want. That’s fake news. Literally no evidence of such claims…
The Mac Studio isn’t a “prime example” of anything you’re claiming. Macs have been soldered for years. There’s pluses and minuses to that. If you’re not over that by now, perhaps you should move on. The vast majority of users aren’t cracking open their Macs to swap internal parts…. And it’s incredibly simple to plug in an external drive to expand storage on a Mac Studio. It’s a desktop.
Apple shouldn’t add a first-party partitioning system for several reasons. A. Now with Apple Silicon, it’s not like there are a bunch of other OSes that would run natively anyways… So since other OSes wouldn’t run natively, it makes sense to leave emulation and VMs to third parties. And that’s what Apple has done. UTM SE is even available for the iPad, and actually works quite well, I’ve tested it myself…
I use my iPad Pro as my primary computer. It does everything I want and need it to do. I use it for my professional graphic design work, my writing, my 3D modeling/sculpting workflow, everything… I have a Mac that I also use, but not as my daily driver. I actually prefer iPadOS over macOS. I actually find iPadOS to be more productive for me than macOS.
If you’re going to do nothing but complain about the Apple ecosystem and accuse others who appreciate or like their Apple products as having Stockholm syndrome, maybe you should leave the Apple ecosystem (and Apple fan forums)…. Just because we don’t share your complaints doesn’t mean we’re stupid, ignorant, or have Stockholm syndrome. It just means we have different opinions, preferences, and priorities…
Exactly, very well put. If he hates Apple so much, he doesn’t need to hang out in Apple fan forums. It seems he just wants to create trouble by accusing people who disagree with him as having Stockholm syndrome, etc… If Windows is so wonderful, he should buy one of those Surface Pro tablets you can also cook your eggs on. That would be dual purpose computer and griddle…. I, for one, prefer the iPad Pro with iPadOS over the Surface Pro, and the iPad Pro now even supports VMs and emulation via UTM SE. It works pretty well. There’s likely never going to be some kind of official Bootcamp on iPadOS, nor should there be. A solution like Bootcamp probably won’t even come to macOS now that Macs have transitioned to Apple Silicon. If you want to run other OSes on an Apple device, the way that makes the most sense now is emulation or VM. And iPadOS supports that now alongside macOS.
What I find funny about MacRumors, Apple is the market leader in the tablet segment. Nobody has a better tablet than Apple.
Yet, MacRumors keep telling Apple they need to downgrade the iPad to the Microsoft Surface.
Yet, MacRumors keep telling Apple they need to downgrade the iPad to the Microsoft Surface.
Yeah, exactly. With iPadOS, Apple is able to integrate desktop-like functionality while retaining full touch optimization. macOS won’t be fully touch optimized anytime soon, nor should it. Windows suffers from trying to accommodate tablet interactions and desktop interactions, with the emphasis on desktop interactions. That makes the software experience atrocious on the Surface Pros vs iPads. And now that Macs run on a unified chip architecture with iPads, Apple can more readily adapt Mac apps and features and integrate them in a touch-centric way that makes sense for iPadOS. Just look at the way they ported Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro. They retain nearly all the functionality of the desktop versions (and are being updated to include the few features missing), but have a fully touch optimized UI that makes it a much better experience on a tablet. I believe both macOS and iPadOS will converge in terms of most features and software, but will retain unique optimizations for their respective platforms. We can already see this trend at work with things like iPadOS’s adoption of Stage Manager, something as power user-focused and niche as external drive formatting, and several other macOS features that have come to iPadOS in recent years. And with Apple’s emphasis on Swift Code, I believe the app ecosystem on macOS and iPadOS will become essentially similar. Swift Code already allows developers to write one app for both platforms, and Swift UI automatically adapts with UI optimizations for their respective platforms. I highly doubt Apple is going to just slap an old desktop OS onto a modern tablet with touch interaction. That would be the lazy approach, and would lead to suboptimal experience on the iPad. I believe Apple is instead focusing on converging the two more in terms of software and features, while remaining separate software with separate optimizations.
I wouldn't say that. Windows was, and remains, a desktop OS! The "tablet interactions" of Windows are a joke. There's a reason I have both Windows and Android installed on my Surface.
I was saying there that Windows emphasizes desktop interactions and tablet interactions are only a secondary consideration at best. I’m sorry for the confusion. 👍🏻