Other I don’t think the X/8/8+ are selling spectacularly well

[The-Real-Deal82]

Comparing previous upfront costs excluding the carrier tariff to current full retail price is an unfair comparison.

If a previous iPhone was $99, the true cost of the handset would have been absorbed within the contract period. The carrier would have absorbed some of the cost of the tariff allowance, not the cost of the handset.

 

[thesaint024]

APPL down over 2.5% today so far due to a rather large cut in sales forecast. The market is just barely down.

Apple is massively up in any time period you look at over the last few years (including 2017). 2.5% drop on reduced sales guidance is not a lot relative to recent growth and typically of this kind of rumor. This tells me that more conservative sales forecast is already built into the price, or the street doesn't actually believe the doom and gloom. Not attacking you, just stating a measured perspective on the market reaction.

But in the bigger picture, I don't know why there are so many threads on this. As if sales of the current line will somehow make people feel better or worse on whichever iPhone they bought or didn't. This is particularly insecure for people to care excessively about how sales of the current batch is doing. It makes no difference in how I enjoy or don't enjoy my phone. Interesting business topic, yes, but it seems like people use these as some kind of justification or rationale.

 

[boltjames]

Comparing previous upfront costs excluding the carrier tariff to current full retail price is an unfair comparison.

If a previous iPhone was $99, the true cost of the handset would have been absorbed within the contract period. The carrier would have absorbed some of the cost of the tariff allowance, not the cost of the handset.

Not the "you paid for it anyway" myth again.

My AT&T bill has been the same since 2009 yet the iPhone's that I used to get for $0 or $99 now cost me $1250.

This myth that "you pay for it either way....either up front in cash or spread out over 24 monthly payments" is just that, a myth. In the US with AT&T the only thing that's changed is the cost of the hardware. Our monthly service bills have not changed. The hardware is exponentially more expensive.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Because the carrier was making enough from the tariff to cover the handset cost. Offering extra free minutes and data to the user or keeping it the same costs pennies to them. The phone cost is always covered regardless of whether the tariff remains at the same level.

 

[boltjames]

I don't know why there are so many threads on this. As if sales of the current line will somehow make people feel better or worse on whichever iPhone they bought or didn't. This is particularly insecure for people to care excessively about how sales of the current batch is doing.

Oh, I can answer this one. Those who are priced out by Apple's new $800 iPhone 8 or $1250 iPhone X and had no choice but to defect to inferior Android products at deep discounts need to tell the world of their frustration. MR forums seem like a great place, in their minds, to "punish" Apple.

But instead of venting at the people responsible for them being asked to pay full retail price (the carriers) they mistakenly think it's Big Bad Apple and so they come here to vent. Endlessly.
[doublepost=1514321130][/doublepost]

Because the carrier was making enough from the tariff to cover the handset cost. Offering extra free minutes and data to the user or keeping it the same costs pennies to them. The phone cost is always covered regardless of whether the tariff remains at the same level.

I have no time for this mythology. Do some research. Go to an American website called "Google" and search for the terms "iPhone" and "subsidy".

Then come back, inform the group how much carriers were actually spending to acquire new customers in the form of free hardware, and apologize for wasting our time.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Oh, I can answer this one. Those who are priced out by Apple's new $800 iPhone 8 or $1250 iPhone X and had no choice but to defect to inferior Android products at deep discounts need to tell the world of their frustration. MR forums seem like a great place, in their minds, to "punish" Apple.

But instead of venting at the people responsible for them being asked to pay full retail price (the carriers) they mistakenly think it's Big Bad Apple and so they come here to vent. Endlessly.
[doublepost=1514321130][/doublepost]

I have no time for this mythology. Do some research. Go to an American website called "Google" and search for the terms "iPhone" and "subsidy".

Then come back, inform the group how much carriers were actually spending to acquire new customers in the form of free hardware, and apologize for wasting our time.

The note 8 costs more than the iPhone 8.

 

[Martyimac]

You said in Post #1 that the iPhone was not a strong seller and the price needed to be almost cut in half. Early read is that is not the case on either.



For most of us who chose the larger capacity model, the iPhone 3GS cost $99, the iPhone 4 cost $99, the iPhone 5 cost $99, the iPhone 6 cost $199, and the iPhone X costs $1,250.

If I were an analyst in this space I'd have never forecast iPhone unit sales to increase over last year; I'd have looked at the audience, the pricing, and the offerings and forecast unit sales down X% but revenues nicely up Y% and profitability up a staggering Z%.

Problem is, too many of you only want to talk in unit sales when it's revenues and profitability that drive corporate success.

But aren't gross revenues different from net revenue? Seems to me the net revenue is the real issue.

 

[boltjames]

The note 8 costs more than the iPhone 8.

I wouldn't know. Android is dead to me. It's nothing I'd ever consider. If they make one at a high price that's great, it's not worth as much as an iPhone.
[doublepost=1514325317][/doublepost]

But aren't gross revenues different from net revenue? Seems to me the net revenue is the real issue.

Revenue is just a way of expressing sales. Profitability is what matters to the bottom line. Wall Street, however, is based on speculation and sometimes they care about sales growth and other times they care about profit growth, it varies by investment group.

 

[Martyimac]

I wouldn't know. Android is dead to me. It's nothing I'd ever consider. If they make one at a high price that's great, it's not worth as much as an iPhone.
[doublepost=1514325317][/doublepost]

Revenue is just a way of expressing sales. Profitability is what matters to the bottom line. Wall Street, however, is based on speculation and sometimes they care about sales growth and other times they care about profit growth, it varies by investment group.

I'm a simple man, if my net revenues (income after all deductions) goes up, I am happy. My gross revenues (income before before all deductions) isn't quite as important but obviously holds some value in the long run. So to me, net revenue/income holds more value in the overall scheme of things as far as how well I am doing long term. (Can you tell I'm not an economist?)

 

[boltjames]

I'm a simple man, if my net revenues (income after all deductions) goes up, I am happy. My gross revenues (income before before all deductions) isn't quite as important but obviously holds some value in the long run. So to me, net revenue/income holds more value in the overall scheme of things as far as how well I am doing long term. (Can you tell I'm not an economist?)

That holds true for certain businesses, for example if you were a dentist perhaps you wouldn’t look at profit margin as much as you would look at your net revenues. You get paid $100,000 for 50 surgeries, you paid out $50,000 in salary and rent and insurance and supplies, you had a good month. I’m sure Apple looks at their Genius service in the same manner. But when it comes to products it’s a bit different.

 

[the future]

This is the most pointless kind of thread. Why speculate when Apple will provide exact numbers quite soon?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Don’t anybody mention that Samsung make screens and chips for the iPhone for Christ sake.

 

[Adelphos33]

Looks like this post was correct. Units (even when taking into account the 13/14 week shift) are essentially flat, and the stock is down. Looking into September, it's difficult to see what gets those that upgraded to the X to upgrade to the Xs or whatever it will be called. The key will be convincing the massive 6/6s/7/SE user base to upgrade, and it seems like those people aren't convinced yet.

 

[Martyimac]

Looks like this post was correct. Units (even when taking into account the 13/14 week shift) are essentially flat, and the stock is down. Looking into September, it's difficult to see what gets those that upgraded to the X to upgrade to the Xs or whatever it will be called. The key will be convincing the massive 6/6s/7/SE user base to upgrade, and it seems like those people aren't convinced yet.

I can't, and don't, speak for anybody else for me, but I see no reason to upgrade to a new iPhone. Since buying my SE/6S I have been very happy with them and see NO reason to upgrade.
Anybody care to tell me why I'm wrong? (Have been on the iPhone upgrade train since 2007 when the first iPhone came out)

 

[Adelphos33]

I can't, and don't, speak for anybody else for me, but I see no reason to upgrade to a new iPhone. Since buying my SE/6S I have been very happy with them and see NO reason to upgrade.
Anybody care to tell me why I'm wrong? (Have been on the iPhone upgrade train since 2007 when the first iPhone came out)

The most tangible benefit, to me, is the significantly improved cameras. The better battery life and wireless charging are also very useful to me.

Beyond that, Apple hasn't really added a new use case for the iPhone since Apple Pay. This year, I've seen people with old iPhones simply replacing them with the same model when it is time to "upgrade". Have never really seen that in the history of the product before.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I can't, and don't, speak for anybody else for me, but I see no reason to upgrade to a new iPhone. Since buying my SE/6S I have been very happy with them and see NO reason to upgrade.
Anybody care to tell me why I'm wrong? (Have been on the iPhone upgrade train since 2007 when the first iPhone came out)

I’ve got a 6S too and when my upgrade comes in September i’ll likely get an iPhone 8 if this rumoured 6.1” iPhone really does leave out fundamental features like 3D Touch just so it can be considered ‘budget’. Feature-wise I’ve got everything I need it’s just a case of having a more future proof for another 2 years. The iPhone is a tool to me rather than a fashion accessory.

 

[Clogger]

Oh, I can answer this one. Those who are priced out by Apple's new $800 iPhone 8 or $1250 iPhone X and had no choice but to defect to inferior Android products at deep discounts need to tell the world of their frustration. MR forums seem like a great place, in their minds, to "punish" Apple.

But instead of venting at the people responsible for them being asked to pay full retail price (the carriers) they mistakenly think it's Big Bad Apple and so they come here to vent. Endlessly.
[doublepost=1514321130][/doublepost]

I have no time for this mythology. Do some research. Go to an American website called "Google" and search for the terms "iPhone" and "subsidy".

Then come back, inform the group how much carriers were actually spending to acquire new customers in the form of free hardware, and apologize for wasting our time.

Just because you had your devices subsided by your carrier does not mean that is the case for everyone. You seem to think that the whole world works like the deal you got from your carrier, it doesn't.

You keep harping on about sales, first these are all BS estimates and projections and even the article you linked too earlier doesn't support the estimates you have claimed here. They state how many devices Apple (might) have shipped and not how many have been sold onto a end user. These devices that have been shipped will more than likely account for sales from Apple HQ and not account for the millions of devices that may well (or not) be stuck on 3rd party sellers shelves and not actually in the hands of customers walking the streets.

Iphone X's have been relatively easy to get hold of in the UK, I remember when the 6 launched and they were sold out for months. This could be a supply issue of course where the 6 was under supplied and X being over supplied to cater for possible demand.

It is pretty clear that the current device, looking at other anecdotal evidence hasn't been as much as a success as previous models but I think that may well be that the competition is a little better these days. The X may have surpassed what Apple was expecting to shift or vice versa, the truth is we just don't know.

 

[The Game 161]

Looks like this post was correct. Units (even when taking into account the 13/14 week shift) are essentially flat, and the stock is down. Looking into September, it's difficult to see what gets those that upgraded to the X to upgrade to the Xs or whatever it will be called. The key will be convincing the massive 6/6s/7/SE user base to upgrade, and it seems like those people aren't convinced yet.

I wouldn't say it is correct. They still sold 77 million iPhones and the extra week can be a big deal given how much they sell per day.

That said the sales has likely hit it's peak until the next iPhones are released.

I think this is more a credit to apple in the fact many older devices still work so well. 6/6s devices are still very good phones.

the average user just wants a phone that works and don't care about extra features so many are happy to stick with what they have as it does the job required.

 

[newellj]

Looks like this post was correct. Units (even when taking into account the 13/14 week shift) are essentially flat, and the stock is down. Looking into September, it's difficult to see what gets those that upgraded to the X to upgrade to the Xs or whatever it will be called. The key will be convincing the massive 6/6s/7/SE user base to upgrade, and it seems like those people aren't convinced yet.

Indeed, especially since the 6S and 7 are still for sale!

 

[boltjames]

Just because you had your devices subsided by your carrier does not mean that is the case for everyone. You seem to think that the whole world works like the deal you got from your carrier, it doesn't.

You keep harping on about sales, first these are all BS estimates and projections and even the article you linked too earlier doesn't support the estimates you have claimed here. They state how many devices Apple (might) have shipped and not how many have been sold onto a end user. These devices that have been shipped will more than likely account for sales from Apple HQ and not account for the millions of devices that may well (or not) be stuck on 3rd party sellers shelves and not actually in the hands of customers walking the streets.

Iphone X's have been relatively easy to get hold of in the UK, I remember when the 6 launched and they were sold out for months. This could be a supply issue of course where the 6 was under supplied and X being over supplied to cater for possible demand.

It is pretty clear that the current device, looking at other anecdotal evidence hasn't been as much as a success as previous models but I think that may well be that the competition is a little better these days. The X may have surpassed what Apple was expecting to shift or vice versa, the truth is we just don't know.

This post is a little late. The war is over. Apple won.

It's already been established during the Q1 earnings call last week that Apple just had its greatest quarter in its history, the iPhone has broken all records, and the iPhone X has been the best selling iPhone every week since its release 7 weeks ago.

 

[newellj]

Is it clear from Cook's comments that the X was actually Apple's leader in units? Or did he mean that the X was the leader in sales revenues?

 

[boltjames]

Is it clear from Cook's comments that the X was actually Apple's leader in units? Or did he mean that the X was the leader in sales revenues?

Sales revenues. It's all that matters. Companies are judged by revenues and profits. Units becomes a less important statistic now that we are in the new phone era where prices are over $550 and carrier subsidies are discontinued. The first decade of the smartphone was about units sold and market share; the second decade is about revenues and sustained profits.

Apple surpassed Samsung as the #1 maker of smartphones. That's actually bigger news than the iPhone X's success. Apple's prices going through the roof would make one think that Samsung and it's cheap Android offerings would have a field day. The exact opposite happened. Apple, as a luxury brand, is well positioned to go upscale. Samsung, not so much.