I feel like i'm alone to dislike M1/what is it good for (Merged Mega Thread)

[Fomalhaut]

My virtualization needs are now being met by Docker. So far I've only hit 2 images that I need that don't have Arm versions so it's getting closer for me.

What sort of ARM Docker images are you using? I haven't explored Docker on my new Mac yet, but used it on x86 VMs a few times.

 

[Fomalhaut]

You’ve got your computer timelines a bit messed up. The Apple II was introduced in 1977 and is one of the oldest commercial home computers and predates everything else in your list. The Sinclair Spectrum was 1982, the VIC20 was 1980 and the BBC micro was 1981.

All early personal/home computers had slots for upgrades because almost nothing was standard on those machines. Floppies, printer boards, and display cards were very commonly found in slots. Sorry, you got it backwards. Upgrades were first and appliances came later.

Thanks for the correction! I actually knew the Apple II came out in the late 70s, so not sure why I got the timeline wrong...

I had a Spectrum and used a BBC Micro extensively, and I don't recall being able to add anything internally (certainly not Spectrum), but they did have external ports of various types to you could attach peripherals to. The BBC B was excellent in this respect and I build some expansion boards for my electronics classes.

Yes, you could *could* add external RAM packs to some of the early non-modular computers, but IIRC you had to choose the internal RAM spec at purchase time (certainly Spectrum and BBC Micro and probably Amiga, Acorn, Commodore models), which is what I was referring to. I think the Apple II had an internal RAM expansion board, which connected to the internal bus...so yes, this could count as an internal RAM upgrade.

But I still think it's correct to say that standardised expansion boards took of with PC compatibles and the ISA bus.

 

[TiggrToo]

What sort of ARM Docker images are you using? I haven't explored Docker on my new Mac yet, but used it on x86 VMs a few times.

Redis, RabbitMq, Trino, PostgreSql, and Apache httpd to name but a few.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I've no idea whether this is an urban myth, but I recall reading somewhere than only about 2% of Mac users installed Boot Camp.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was that or even less. It was so “not” a selling point that they’d even removed virtualization/emulation mentions from their site well before Apple Silicon came along. Even Boot Camp had it’s mentions limited. Removing that feature was definitely something Apple had been planning for awhile.

 

[bobcomer]

I've no idea whether this is an urban myth, but I recall reading somewhere than only about 2% of Mac users installed Boot Camp.

I really don't think Apple is that bothered by losing those losers, and in any case, the situation with software compatibility on Macs is better now than it was 10-15 years ago when Intel Macs were introduced.

I used to use Bootcamp but in the end found local VMs worked almost as well and were a lot less hassle. I now don't even bother with those and use cloud instances for the same development work - which removes all the messing around creating and maintaining VMs.

I never used bootcamp and always used VM's. (long before I got my first Mac, and that was a long time ago. My first Mac was a Core Duo mini.). I'm too impatient to take the time to reboot.

 

[bobcomer]

By that logic (Macs supposedly being "crippled" without the ability to run Windows), every PC out there is crippled too, because they can't run macOS.

You can actually do that in a VM.

 

[bobcomer]

Hmmm...I'm not convinced about that for the M1 Pro at least. The Mini has a lot of spare space, and I would expect the M1 Pro would be quite happy inside it with maybe minor modifications to the cooling system. The M1 Max...probably needs much more cooling, but considering these things are stuffed into the 14" MBP, I think it would be technically possible to provide adequate cooling in the M1 Mini.

Bear in mind that the 6-core Intel i7-8700B in the Mac Mini has a TDP of 65W. The M1 Pro is estimated to have a TDP of 30-35W for entire SoC package. Even if this is wildly optimistic and it's actually double this, the cooling system in the Mini looks able to handle a 65W TDP CPU plus RAM and other controllers that are included on the Apple Silicon SoC.

That said, I don't think Apple will ever put a Max SoC into the current Mini because it clearly overlaps and competes with the Studio. I'm also not confident that a Pro will find its way into the Mini, not for technical reasons, but because Apple wants to upsell to the Studio.

Regarding the Mac Studio's beast of a cooling system - it's not clear to me whether this is being used to it full capacity. Recent tests comparing the Studio with M1 Max to the even the 14" MBP with M1 Max show there is almost zero performance improvement due to better thermal control for many long-running tasks. It seems a bit lacklustre in my opinion - I had hoped to see the Mac Studio pull ahead significantly. Maybe it needs a firmware update and some more intensive testing?

You're probably right, I was thinking of my intel Mini, and it gets pretty hot.

As for the Studio, I'm typing on my brand new one right now. The cooling system is definitely a beast given what I've seen of it in the teardowns, but yeah, something's not very optimized yet. Hopefully that will change.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Regarding the Mac Studio's beast of a cooling system - it's not clear to me whether this is being used to it full capacity. Recent tests comparing the Studio with M1 Max to the even the 14" MBP with M1 Max show there is almost zero performance improvement due to better thermal control for many long-running tasks. It seems a bit lacklustre in my opinion - I had hoped to see the Mac Studio pull ahead significantly. Maybe it needs a firmware update and some more intensive testing?

How much power does the Mac Studio supply to attached devices? As there’s no internal expansion, I’d assumed the power supply was not so much for the CPU, but for those ports.

Either way, this is the paradox of Apple Silicon, though. Computer users, from their experience with AMD and Intel systems are very used to there being an extremely wide performance curve. The low end stuff will never (and should never) perform as well as the higher end stuff in any way. People are still getting used to the ways that Apple Silicon resets expectations. For Intel, an i9 in a desktop is not the same chip as an i9 in a laptop, that’s what people expect. However, when Apple says “M1 Max”, that means those 10 CPU cores will provide close to the same performance regardless of what they put it in. Setting prior expectations aside, this actually makes sense. Instead of asking “it says M1 Max, why does it perform like an M1 Max” the more interesting question would be “It says i9, why doesn’t it perform like an i9?”

 

[George Dawes]

Happy with mine , the thing is silent , runs cool , very fast and unobtrusive

M1 Mini 16/2tb

Only real annoying things are the permanently on status light ( it's in a bedroom ) and some weird Monterey quirks

Apart from that very impressed , glad I didn't wait for 'the next big thing'

 

[Larsvonhier]

The M1 is an awesome computer, but its only HALF of a computer. No Boot Camp (whatever I dont care whose fault it is, apple, microsoft) really cripples a Mac. I hope this gets corrected in the future. Parallels and Crossover are poor solutions.

For me (on M1 and inte both running x86/64 apps), Parallels is a great solution, but costly (updates every year, needed or not, add to the original costs).
UTM does the task almost as good, although less well-integrated into macOS.

 

[yabeweb]

I guess it boils down on not researching what you buy.

If you know you need Windows as in Bootcamp or native, Mac with M1 are not for you, if you bought one and returned because you found out it does not work like you wanted, it means you did not research before dropping money.

Not Apple's fault.

 

[ct2k7]

Delete

 

[theluggage]

I had a Spectrum and used a BBC Micro extensively, and I don't recall being able to add anything internally (certainly not Spectrum), but they did have external ports of various types to you could attach peripherals to. The BBC B was excellent in this respect and I build some expansion boards for my electronics classes.

At the very least, the BBC B had a couple of empty ROM sockets for software, an empty socket to add a floppy disc controller and a place to add a speech synthesiser (I'm sure it made sense at the time). I'm pretty you could upgrade the RAM on the model A to the full complement. The model B already had all the memory it could directly support (32K ROM, 32K RAM) but there was a whole industry making other internal expansions like "shadow" video memory and paged RAM that could be switched in in place of the ROMs. Adding a board that let you plug in more software ROMs was very common. No, these weren't "standardised" expansion boards, but it shows that there was a huge (for the time) demand for internal expansion, and was mainly possible because most of the chips were socketed so you could 'piggy back' things. As for the ZX 80/81/Spectrum, they essentially had an edge connector with all of the CPU address/data/control bus signals, so the only difference between RAM on the mainboard and a RAM pack was the cheap famously wobbly edge connector.

...and the market for internal expansion boards for the Apple II was huge, which was what marked it out as one of the more "serious" personal computers (except here in the UK where it was ridiculously overpriced so home-grown computers ate it's lunch, and once the BBC became available it took over the 'niche' occupied by the Apple II in the US).

Also, you're really talking about "home/hobbyist computers" which is a class of machines that, today, is split between low-end versions of "professional" PCs and "maker boards" like the Raspberry Pi (which always sold itself as the spiritual successor to the BBC and Spectrum). If you go back to the Apple II days, there was a whole class of "professional" machines with Z80/8080 processors running CP/M, typically in ~19" cases with tons of room for internal expansion, and a well-established standard for "expansion" cards called the S100 bus (actually, as I recall, S100 was more like a backplane for a modular computer with individual cards for CPU, RAM, I/O etc.)

The change was that the IBM PC was descended from those professional CP/M machines rather than "home" computers - modular, often relying on the expansion slots for video, sound, disc controller, I/O - and when the market for cheap IBM PC clones "exploded" this style of computer became far more affordable and displaced the more all-in-one "home computers".

 

[kenwkf2]

Hey everyone,

I recently had a M1 Mac Mini, 1TB Storage, 16 gb of RAM. I never had M1 Mac before, just "Classic" Intel Mac. 😄

And you know what ? I kept it 2 months, and sold it.

I have a really "mixed" feeling about that M1 chips.

Of course, M1 chips have really very great performances. I was impressed to see a Mac Mini with such perfs.

But there a couple of things i really can't stand with that M1 chips.

1/ Zero upgrade possiblity.

Let's be clear, i always hated that apple decision to solder components, BUT i can admit it gives advantages about performances.
But what i feel is like Apple saying "You won't touch inside our machines. We will do everything possible to make it non-upgradeable. Don't touch our computers. You should pay 2X or 3x times the normal price with our configuration."

Look at the poor Luke Miani who had a hope when he opened his Mac Studio... He tried swapping the modules and got 100% locked by Apple. I could feel hope in his eyes, but reality came back very fast 😂

Of course, Apple was never reputed for making upgradeables machines. We all know that Steve Jobs didn't want this.
But at least, most of machines before 2012 could be upgraded with RAM and new Hard drives. I think it was really the minimum Apple could offer to customers. And i'll be honest, i always enjoyed that.
Look at 2020 iMac, memory was still accessible.

In my mind, i really can't stand to be stuck with my machine. I know if i want to change anything in my machine, i have to change the whole machine. And i really feel sad about it.

I feel like : Having a very great machine but being prisoner of it.

2/ Lack of compatibility

Of course, Rosetta is good, and ARM chips are just like the transition from PowerPC to Intel in the mid 2000's. It's totally normal that it lacks of compatibility.
However, i've been so much used to run multiple systems like Linux or Windows, additional to MacOS that it frustrates me a lot.
I won't expand on this topic, i think it's useless.

BTW, i feel very mitigate about M1 Computers, and i feel very alone. Everyone seems to love it so much.
Anyone feeling like me ? 😉

not bad ,you should go back to window

 

[Arctic Moose]

Virtual memory suffers from lack of internal space.

Well sure, but I'd rather have everything on 4 TB internal storage compared to OS and apps on 1 TB internal and data on 3 TB external, even if speeds were comparable.

If you have a Thunderbolt connected external drive your speeds are just fine.

I haven't found anything faster than the Samsung X5 (without going to RAID) and it doesn't get anywhere close to the actual read and write speeds of my internal storage, even on paper. Besides, it maxes out at 2 TB, and prices per TB are pretty much the same as Apple's internal storage.

 

[thadoggfather]

Still really loving my M1 Air, a fan less power efficient powerful mobile computer is what I always wanted.

I willingly kept my 2016 NTB though because I use Boot Camp and want to have an x86 machine too for home-brew and other stuff (legacy software that may have compatibility issues, etc. also on Sierra so still have 32-bit compatibility on Mac side as well)

 

[Zdigital2015]

Still really loving my M1 Air, a fan less power efficient powerful mobile computer is what I always wanted.

I willingly kept my 2016 NTB though because I use Boot Camp and want to have an x86 machine too for home-brew and other stuff (legacy software that may have compatibility issues, etc. also on Sierra so still have 32-bit compatibility on Mac side as well)

And that seems to be the trick for those going through this transition. Unless finances dictate that you get rid of an Intel Mac that you own (I’m sure some are in that position), then you’re better off keeping the Mac for older software and 32-bit compatibility, if you need it. If, as an existing Intel Mac owner are unsure of moving to Apple Silicon, then you really have to be honest about where your needs are and not succumb to FOMO, tech envy, any of those other things that people use to justify unnecessary purchases. I’ve seen users on these forums start a thread asking about what they should buy, they get several thoughtful responses and they still end up buying the way more expensive option that they really, and objectively, didn’t need. Now, it’s their money, but why bother us asking when you lack the internal discipline to buy what the consensus has thoughtfully reasoned out and even the user admits they don’t need but yet they ultimately end up getting the iPad Pro when the base iPad was really all they needed…SMH.

I would love a new iPad Pro 12.9”, but I lack the funds for that at the present moment and I just don’t have a justifiable use case. I’m even having a hard time justifying a base iPad Air 5 right now. So what do I do!?! I keep my wallet closed. I’m finding the older I get, the less I can justify indulging my tech habit to simply buy something new. I knew I wanted an Apple Silicon Mac and I dithered between the Air and the Pro and chose the Pro for the TB, the fans and the brighter screen. I bought new, but I didn’t BTO, I bought the 8/512. It was the appropriate level. A year and a half later, I know I would have been just fine with the Air.

My point being is that users would do themselves and their wallets a favor by really starting to objectively look at what they need versus letting the next shiny object drag them down a path that just leads to the next shiny object. Apple Silicon is no different. It’s great, it’s fast and it sips power, but it may not really work for what you want (VM, BootCamp, 32-bit, current machine is fast enough, specific app or hardware you use isn’t updated to work, etc.). Dragging it into the forums is not good or bad, but I feel a lot of times these posts are like an airing of grievances against Apple. It’s clear a lot of people are unhappy that Apple switched to their own SoC and dropped Intel, but some people really seem to be taking it overly personally, which tells me people have lost their perspective or feel they are entitled. This is not the case.

 

[thadoggfather]

And that seems to be the trick for those going through this transition. Unless finances dictate that you get rid of an Intel Mac that you own (I’m sure some are in that position), then you’re better off keeping the Mac for older software and 32-bit compatibility, if you need it. If, as an existing Intel Mac owner are unsure of moving to Apple Silicon, then you really have to be honest about where your needs are and not succumb to FOMO, tech envy, any of those other things that people use to justify unnecessary purchases. I’ve seen users on these forums start a thread asking about what they should buy, they get several thoughtful responses and they still end up buying the way more expensive option that they really, and objectively, didn’t need. Now, it’s their money, but why bother us asking when you lack the internal discipline to buy what the consensus has thoughtfully reasoned out and even the user admits they don’t need but yet they ultimately end up getting the iPad Pro when the base iPad was really all they needed…SMH.

I would love a new iPad Pro 12.9”, but I lack the funds for that at the present moment and I just don’t have a justifiable use case. I’m even having a hard time justifying a base iPad Air 5 right now. So what do I do!?! I keep my wallet closed. I’m finding the older I get, the less I can justify indulging my tech habit to simply buy something new. I knew I wanted an Apple Silicon Mac and I dithered between the Air and the Pro and chose the Pro for the TB, the fans and the brighter screen. I bought new, but I didn’t BTO, I bought the 8/512. It was the appropriate level. A year and a half later, I know I would have been just fine with the Air.

My point being is that users would do themselves and their wallets a favor by really starting to objectively look at what they need versus letting the next shiny object drag them down a path that just leads to the next shiny object. Apple Silicon is no different. It’s great, it’s fast and it sips power, but it may not really work for what you want (VM, BootCamp, 32-bit, current machine is fast enough, specific app or hardware you use isn’t updated to work, etc.). Dragging it into the forums is not good or bad, but I feel a lot of times these posts are like an airing of grievances against Apple. It’s clear a lot of people are unhappy that Apple switched to their own SoC and dropped Intel, but some people really seem to be taking it overly personally, which tells me people have lost their perspective or feel they are entitled. This is not the case.

Good points

plus people who struck gold being on the last x86 macs that dont want to move to AS for ‘reasons’ seem to be in a good position / should feel good about their purchases.

Anyone who got a 2019/2020 27” retina iMac for example, are sitting pretty since it was discontinued and there’s no 27” AS replacement (unless you got Mac mini or Studid with the STudio display but the price is hefty and its not AIO)

 

[thedocbwarren]

Good points

plus people who struck gold being on the last x86 macs that dont want to move to AS for ‘reasons’ seem to be in a good position / should feel good about their purchases.

Anyone who got a 2019/2020 27” retina iMac for example, are sitting pretty since it was discontinued and there’s no 27” AS replacement (unless you got Mac mini or Studid with the STudio display but the price is hefty and its not AIO)

I felt like that when I bought and massively upgraded my old MacPro 5,1 when the trashcan came out. Feeling like that now with my M1 MBP 13 honestly.

 

[Technerd108]

Hey everyone,

I recently had a M1 Mac Mini, 1TB Storage, 16 gb of RAM. I never had M1 Mac before, just "Classic" Intel Mac. 😄

And you know what ? I kept it 2 months, and sold it.

I have a really "mixed" feeling about that M1 chips.

Of course, M1 chips have really very great performances. I was impressed to see a Mac Mini with such perfs.

But there a couple of things i really can't stand with that M1 chips.

1/ Zero upgrade possiblity.

Let's be clear, i always hated that apple decision to solder components, BUT i can admit it gives advantages about performances.
But what i feel is like Apple saying "You won't touch inside our machines. We will do everything possible to make it non-upgradeable. Don't touch our computers. You should pay 2X or 3x times the normal price with our configuration."

Look at the poor Luke Miani who had a hope when he opened his Mac Studio... He tried swapping the modules and got 100% locked by Apple. I could feel hope in his eyes, but reality came back very fast 😂

Of course, Apple was never reputed for making upgradeables machines. We all know that Steve Jobs didn't want this.
But at least, most of machines before 2012 could be upgraded with RAM and new Hard drives. I think it was really the minimum Apple could offer to customers. And i'll be honest, i always enjoyed that.
Look at 2020 iMac, memory was still accessible.

In my mind, i really can't stand to be stuck with my machine. I know if i want to change anything in my machine, i have to change the whole machine. And i really feel sad about it.

I feel like : Having a very great machine but being prisoner of it.

2/ Lack of compatibility

Of course, Rosetta is good, and ARM chips are just like the transition from PowerPC to Intel in the mid 2000's. It's totally normal that it lacks of compatibility.
However, i've been so much used to run multiple systems like Linux or Windows, additional to MacOS that it frustrates me a lot.
I won't expand on this topic, i think it's useless.

BTW, i feel very mitigate about M1 Computers, and i feel very alone. Everyone seems to love it so much.
Anyone feeling like me ? 😉

Why not just buy a cheap windows laptop? I bought a Surface laptop base model with AMD chip and love it . Cost me $650 which is cheaper than an IPad Pro and it will last a long time.

Expecting a new architecture and new chip to work with windows is unrealistic. It is not an x86 chip so only arm version of windows would work and that version is not compatible with a lot of software that people want to use even if they managed to put bootcamp on M1?

 

[russell_314]

I guess it boils down on not researching what you buy.

If you know you need Windows as in Bootcamp or native, Mac with M1 are not for you, if you bought one and returned because you found out it does not work like you wanted, it means you did not research before dropping money.

Not Apple's fault.

This is very true but also very common with computer buyers for some reason. There’s things they could find with a quick Google search but they won’t then when they realize they have a problem they will spend time online posting about it.

Everything has trade-offs and Apple decided losing windows was an acceptable trade-off for more battery life and faster speed. The same with upgradability. Even on my older 2015 MacBook Pro the only upgrade possible was the SSD so it’s not like it was very upgradable.

Sure I would like to see x86 Windows compatibility but not trading speed, battery life, heat, and fan noise to get it.

 

[Newfiejudd]

I really enjoy my M1, and the concerns I have are around Bootcamp, but I knew that going into it. Although my main issues seem to be around Monterey, it really just seems buggy and full of issues.

 

[russell_314]

I really enjoy my M1, and the concerns I have are around Bootcamp, but I knew that going into it. Although my main issues seem to be around Monterey, it really just seems buggy and full of issues.

What issues are you having with Monterey? Have you updated to 12.3? So far I’ve had no issues on my iMac but maybe I’ve been lucky. I waited forever to update because I’ve heard some people were having issues.

Edit: It seems there is 12.3.1 now 😂

 

[Newfiejudd]

What issues are you having with Monterey? Have you updated to 12.3? So far I’ve had no issues on my iMac but maybe I’ve been lucky. I waited forever to update because I’ve heard some people were having issues.

Edit: It seems there is 12.3.1 now 😂

Universal control works sometimes with my iPad Pro, sound output utilizing HDMI (Stereo only when connecting my heater system). Screen sharing continually disconnects. Happens on multiple storks or even when wired to my iPad. Multiscreen supports seems to forget my display setup. Safari woks at time with a high refresh, but not always. Surprisingly the Notch is a non issues for me.
As for bootcamp I would really like to see this unit have dedicated bootcamp support, I utilize virtualization where applicable although we have engineer software that requires Windows on non virtualization for security measures.

 

[MacCheetah3]

Yeah, no. I can’t easily predict storage over 5 or more years. That said, I’m considering moving non OS stuff to DNAS, which means I don’t need to consider that storage up front

Would it be great if memory and storage were still user-upgradable. Yes! Is the fact that it's not a deal-breaker for me? Not for a second. You can configure high specs on the machine at the time of purchase so you won't outgrow it too quickly. You just have to think about it carefully and plan ahead. Yes, I know it can be expensive to configure high TB of storage and high GB of memory with Apple, but there's really no other easy option at this point, so it is what it is. Of course, you can always opt for high speed external storage if you want to offset the cost a bit of upgrading the RAM.

There is a positive to limits (e.g. unwilling to pay for storage, option is not available): you’re coerced/forced to improve efficiency/streamline. For example, I had 1TB of primary storage on my 2012 Mac mini, but was able to snag this M1 mini, which has half the internal capacity, for a great price. Thus, I was forced to review and clear out a couple hundred GBs or so of long forgotten about files. As expected, there really were a lot no longer usable, irrelevant, uninteresting, etc. The process is akin to when moving residences or hitting the problem of “I don’t know where I am going to put this” when obtaining something new. Equally, while the task is very tedious and obnoxious, the end result is ultimately satisfying (for me).