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JouniS

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
638
399
No, contracts of this type are rarely “promise absolutely nothing”. NONE of the vendors would contract in advance to buy chips if that were the case. :) Intel provides a roadmap indicating a feature set they will hit and vendors contract to buy a certain quantity. If Intel doesn’t provide a suitable chip, then there are clauses in those contracts that go into effect.
Contracts like that don't make any real promises. The vendor agrees to deliver product A under conditions X or product B under conditions Y, but it doesn't promise it will be able to deliver A. If the customer relies on getting A, it's obviously taking a significant risk.

Oh, I’m sure we’d have seen them if they exist. :) What’s more likely is that Intel kept telling Apple over and over again for YEARS that they’re close to hitting the TDP’s Apple needed for their MacBook Pro’s, they just needed to wait a little longer.
Your arguments seem to imply that stupidity and incompetence are the key hiring criteria at Apple.

Of course Apple is making many prototypes it will never sell. That does not require any significant effort even at a company 1000x smaller than Apple. If most of your R&D efforts don't fail, you are not particularly ambitious and your products will most likely be mediocre and uninnovative.
 

JimmyjamesEU

Suspended
Jun 28, 2018
397
426
Yes, it's a serious question. The compression is terrible with hardware encoders so they are useless for non-realtime encoding.
Good grief. Do you happen to think 24/96 audio sounds better too?

So all high end video cameras and phones use hardware encoding, which looks incredible, but you have determined it’s useless?
 
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Sopel

macrumors member
Nov 30, 2021
41
85
Good grief. Do you happen to think 24/96 audio sounds better too?

So all high end video cameras and phones use hardware encoding, which looks incredible, but you have determined it’s useless?
, https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-m1-h-265-encoding.2269815/, https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/f...ssue-poor-hardware-encoding-quality-mac-m1-pr. It's not rocket science, it's real and widely known that hardware encoders have worse compression. And please stay on topic.
 

JimmyjamesEU

Suspended
Jun 28, 2018
397
426
I am on topic.

That post is from a year ago…from one person and your stating it as some widely accepted fact. What’s more that post is saying that the nvenc (Nvidia’s hardware encoder) encode is higher quality. As I said, hardware encoders can give great quality. This is evidenced by the fact that all cameras use them!

Nvenc is very high quality and the M1 is pretty close and has been tweaked to get even better over the past year or so.
 
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ahurst

macrumors 6502
Oct 12, 2021
410
815
Thing is, those goals weren’t even some far fetched Intel pipe dreams. They were the same fairly modest goals that Intel had little problem hitting year over year… until Skylake. As a result, Intel began sliding back those delivery targets by 1 year, 2, 3… etc. Whatever long term contract Apple had with them, Intel’s failure to deliver gave them an out and now Apple’s on Apple Silicon. AND, having FAR less difficulty than Intel of hitting their TDP targets!
Apart from failing to deliver on 10nm and lacklustre improvements to single-core, the three big failings I usually think of in the late Intel-Apple partnership are:

1) Tons of low-level bugs in Skylake, with Apple being the largest submitter of bug reports for that chipset out of any vendor.
2) Apple designing the new MacBook Air under Intel's promises that their chips would run cool enough to be fanless, and then failing to meet those targets (meaning they had to shoehorn in an inadequate fan at the last minute). (Note: can't find a source for this, but I've heard it elsewhere on the forums and it explains a lot about the MBA redesign)
3) Apple creating the 12" MacBook under the assumption Intel's m-series chips would get increasingly capable over time (e.g. Thunderbolt support, better battery life). Instead, Intel just gave up on making chips that fit that thermal profile, with all but the weakest Y-series chips having TDPs of 7W instead of the original 4.5W.
 

Sopel

macrumors member
Nov 30, 2021
41
85
I am on topic.

That post is from a year ago…from one person and your stating it as some widely accepted fact. What’s more that post is saying that the nvenc (Nvidia’s hardware encoder) encode is higher quality. As I said, hardware encoders can give great quality. This is evidenced by the fact that all cameras use them!

Nvenc is very high quality and the M1 is pretty close and has been tweaked to get even better over the past year or so.
No, I'm not talking about quality, I'm talking about compression. Phone cameras use hardware encoders because they need real-time encoding, but compensate by using very high bitrates. My phone for example records 1080p30 videos with ~20Mbps in HEVC, which is A LOT.
 

JimmyjamesEU

Suspended
Jun 28, 2018
397
426
No, I'm not talking about quality, I'm talking about compression. Phone cameras use hardware encoders because they need real-time encoding, but compensate by using very high bitrates. My phone for example records 1080p30 videos with ~20Mbps in HEVC, which is A LOT.
Lol. Please stop. 20Mbps is not A LOT. I can only assume your talking about people using handbrake for blu ray rips etc. No one encoding ProRes to hevc thinks like that.
 

Sopel

macrumors member
Nov 30, 2021
41
85
Lol. Please stop. 20Mbps is not A LOT. I can only assume your talking about people using handbrake for blu ray rips etc. No one encoding ProRes to hevc thinks like that.
I'm talking about objective metrics. You're trying to put words in my mouth again.
 

JimmyjamesEU

Suspended
Jun 28, 2018
397
426
I'm talking about objective metrics. You're trying to put words in my mouth again.
What objective metrics? You said hardware encoders were “useless” because there was nothing to “stream”. That’s obviously nonsense. Many professional people involved with video are using hardware encoding. It might not be to your taste, but that doesn’t make it useless.
 

dogface1956

macrumors regular
Mar 10, 2022
153
239
Yeah, no. I can’t easily predict storage over 5 or more years. That said, I’m considering moving non OS stuff to DNAS, which means I don’t need to consider that storage up front
Try external storage, it works. If I need more storage I add a thunderbolt drive and the problem is fixed.
 
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macacam

macrumors member
Feb 10, 2022
49
108
Welcome to the mac haters ball! Hate hate hate hate!
player-hater-ball-686.jpg
 
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dogface1956

macrumors regular
Mar 10, 2022
153
239
Yes, but what is there to configure on an M1 mini... from 8 to 16GB RAM is not enough... and that is what the OP (as well as myself) are complaining about. I personally do not need a Mac Studio M1 Max/Ultra for just higher RAM, is a complete overkill for my needs. Just need more RAM... Oh well.
But due to the design of the M1 chip it only supports up to 8 to 16GB of RAM there is no way for Apple to add more memory to that chip. If you need more memory then go to the M1 Pro or M1 Max, that is just the way it works. Don't know how complaining changes things for Apple to move the Mac Platform forward they felt that they needed to change to their own silicon, Apple has done this in the past with the change from the 68000 family of chips to the PowerPC class of chips to the Intel chips. They have made each change because each of the family of chips was reaching a dead-end. I believe Apple feels that Intel is boxing themselves into a corner with their chips and the performance just not increasing at the same level that they can get with their own chips. So far the transition to the Apple SOC has show that to be true, for most things the Intel chips can't complete with the Apple SOC.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,628
Contracts like that don't make any real promises. The vendor agrees to deliver product A under conditions X or product B under conditions Y, but it doesn't promise it will be able to deliver A. If the customer relies on getting A, it's obviously taking a significant risk.
Yes, they make promises. Like how many cores, expected performance, TDP, pin-compatibility, etc. things that are important to vendors in order for them to be able to have systems ready to be manufactured and ready to ship as soon as possible after the new chips are available. It also avoids them the hassle of prototyping a system with LPDDR4 or Thunderbolt 4 when those aren’t even on Intel’s roadmap!

No one is signing anything with Intel that states, “Give us money up front to reserve a bunch of the first run of chips. When will we have them? I dunno, don’t want to make any promises. Before 3021? Nah, like I said, we don’t want to make promises. We’ll do something or another, more than likely but don’t hold us to it! Thanks for the money though”

Your arguments seem to imply that stupidity and incompetence are the key hiring criteria at Apple.

Of course Apple is making many prototypes it will never sell. That does not require any significant effort even at a company 1000x smaller than Apple. If most of your R&D efforts don't fail, you are not particularly ambitious and your products will most likely be mediocre and uninnovative.
Prototypes based on the narrow range of expectations that Intel and their internal architects have defined? Absolutely. Which curve at which angle, do the fans need to be a half of a millimeter shorter, how about those pads on the bottom, rubbery enough? Can we model the batteries to fit more capacity? Where does that leave us for total weight?

No one was prototyping for something that exceeded projected TDP. They WOULD have if Intel had told them up front that they would likely exceed the projected TDP by a staggeringly impressive amount. But, as we saw, that’s not what Intel did. :)
 

ahurst

macrumors 6502
Oct 12, 2021
410
815
Try external storage, it works. If I need more storage I add a thunderbolt drive and the problem is fixed.
My approach is that you're rarely going to actively use more than 512GB of data quickly on a machine at a given time (unless you're a high-res video editor), so having an external drive for offloading movies you've already watched, data from projects you've already finished, etc. is a very reasonable plan for keeping your storage options flexible.

On the new 14" and 16" MBPs you can even stick a high-capacity MicroSD card in the slot with a flush adapter and carry an extra 256GB-1TB around with you, offloading large files you'd like to have access to but don't immediately need on fast internal storage.
 

ric22

Suspended
Mar 8, 2022
2,713
2,963
My approach is that you're rarely going to actively use more than 512GB of data quickly on a machine at a given time (unless you're a high-res video editor), so having an external drive for offloading movies you've already watched, data from projects you've already finished, etc. is a very reasonable plan for keeping your storage options flexible.

On the new 14" and 16" MBPs you can even stick a high-capacity MicroSD card in the slot with a flush adapter and carry an extra 256GB-1TB around with you, offloading large files you'd like to have access to but don't immediately need on fast internal storage.
I've used those things in the past, and found them to be a bit scatty- they didn't always respond if the system fell asleep, so I had to remember to unplug them and try not to lose them. Not ideal. The majority of the time they behaved, but too often they wouldn't. It wasn't the same as having internal storage.
 
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ahurst

macrumors 6502
Oct 12, 2021
410
815
I've used those things in the past, and found them to be a bit scatty- they didn't always respond if the system fell asleep, so I had to remember to unplug them and try not to lose them. Not ideal. The majority of the time they behaved, but too often they wouldn't. It wasn't the same as having internal storage.
Ah yeah, I can imagine that being an issue. I guess it’d only work well if the card reader drivers were written with that use case in mind (I’ve never tried it myself, just considered it as an option).

Thanks for sharing your experience before I wasted any money 🙂
 
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ric22

Suspended
Mar 8, 2022
2,713
2,963
Ah yeah, I can imagine that being an issue. I guess it’d only work well if the card reader drivers were written with that use case in mind (I’ve never tried it myself, just considered it as an option).

Thanks for sharing your experience before I wasted any money 🙂
Maybe they've improved since I tried them 5/6 years ago, or the machines or their card readers have improved... but it's something to be aware of. 😕
 

dogface1956

macrumors regular
Mar 10, 2022
153
239
My approach is that you're rarely going to actively use more than 512GB of data quickly on a machine at a given time (unless you're a high-res video editor), so having an external drive for offloading movies you've already watched, data from projects you've already finished, etc. is a very reasonable plan for keeping your storage options flexible.

On the new 14" and 16" MBPs you can even stick a high-capacity MicroSD card in the slot with a flush adapter and carry an extra 256GB-1TB around with you, offloading large files you'd like to have access to but don't immediately need on fast internal storage.
I have a 2TB SSD drive that I used for the OS and Applications plus working files, 2 TB's has been working great for me the past 3 years, before that I was using a 1 TB SSD. All data files that are non-working (finished) are offloaded to external drives.
 

dogface1956

macrumors regular
Mar 10, 2022
153
239
This is probably true. Then again, the majority of the popular workflows run on both Windows and macOS.
How do you figure that, my work flows don't need Windows at all. Most of the people I know have Mac's and their workflows don't require windows. I think that is a gross exaggeration, I would say it is the opposite most people who use Mac's don't require Windows to do their work.
 
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areusche

macrumors regular
Jun 24, 2008
168
1
I had a plan to buy an F-150 pickup with a V-6 engine and simply add two pistons to increase the performance, but I couldn't find any garage mechanics willing to take on the task. Wimps.
I'm necro'ing this post to write about how cringe this comment really is.

Any garage worth its salt will be happy to take on such a project given an unlimited amount of time and an open pocket book.

Sincerely,
An f150 owner who swapped the blown V6 to a V8.
 
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